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Clutching frantically to 'Heller,' 3rd Circuit OKs Ban on Unnumbered Guns
LAW.COM ^ | Shannon P. Duffy

Posted on 07/30/2010 8:50:32 PM PDT by Rabin

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To: JRandomFreeper
Then why does federal law require that firearms be serial numbered? Forget obliterated serial numbers. A firearm that is manufactured without one is just as unlawful.

Almost true but not quite. You can make your own firearm from scratch (or at least the receiver, which otherwise would be the serialized part) and you don't have to give it a serial number. BATFE encourages you to, so you can "identify it if it's ever stolen", but it's not a legal requirement.

51 posted on 07/31/2010 9:22:15 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
-- It's just another arm of the unconstitutional Wickard wickedness. --

I'm going to try my hand at telling the Wickard case in a soundbite form.

The court found that Farmer Filburn had a complete right to plant excess. He could feed it to his livestock without penalty. In order to avoid the penalty under the law, Farmer Filburn would only have to feed the harvest to his livestock before threshing it, that is, before removing the grain from the chaff.

"Feeding before threshing" has exactly the same impact on interstate commerce as "feeding after threshing."

I haven't figured out a good soundbite to describe the legal nonsense that follows, to this day, a decision that let Farmer Filburn affect interstate commerce with no interference from the government, as long as he didn't thresh the excess of his harvest.

52 posted on 07/31/2010 9:50:16 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

And we’ve all been getting thrashed by WvF ever since!


53 posted on 07/31/2010 10:29:02 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Mr Rogers
Once guns are made in one state and sold in another, you have no argument. Congress can regulate how a gun made in one state is tracked and sold in another, and that is IAW the Constitution.

Actually, no. Even if you roll back interstate commerce "jurisprudence" to pre-Wickard days, when some actual interstate commerce would be a prerequisite for regulation, you're STILL not done. The commerce clause wasn't intended to enable general regulation of interstate commerce (even REAL interstate commerce), but to prevent protectionism by states against goods manufactured in other states, etc., and a few other small concerns, and that was about it.

54 posted on 07/31/2010 10:33:02 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: wastedyears
Before Congress said so, I don’t think guns were numbered. More unconstitutional infringement on my God-given rights.

The requirement that long guns must be serially numbered came in with the 1968 gun control act, passeed after the murder of former president John F. Kennedy and modelled after the German Weapons Law of March 18, 1938, drafted and passed by the then-ruling German National Socialist Party, usually known by as the Nazi Party, the shorthand abbreviation they were tagged with by their Communist adversaries.

Until the 1969 act became law, inexpensive shotguns and .22 rifles generally weren't serial numbered, though most handguns were. But the Democrats in congress in the 1960s wanted to know where even the kids' .22 rifles and single-shot rabbit guns were.

Just like the Nazis did.

55 posted on 07/31/2010 11:29:09 AM PDT by archy
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To: Rabin

If the gun is your property then you should be able to deface it any way you want. Even small infringements are still intollerable.


56 posted on 07/31/2010 12:18:03 PM PDT by Dayman
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To: Mr Rogers

“I don’t have a problem with this. We have a right to bear arms, but nothing says those arms must be allowed to have no serial number. I own a number of guns, and all of them have serial numbers. It isn’t a big deal.”

I understand what you are saying, but do you think you should be charged with a felony if you chose to remove the serial number of one of your guns? You own them so who is to say you can’t? Does it hurt anyone?

Laws against obliterated S/N’s are malum prohibitum. They serve no purpose that isn’t accomplished through existing laws. It’s already illegal to possess stolen property.


57 posted on 07/31/2010 12:21:02 PM PDT by Dayman
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To: Dayman

I agree about the law’s usefulness. However, I don’t see a lot of harm, and would much rather see money and effort spent trying to make it easier for a citizen to own arms in all 50 states. I think Constitutional Carry is just that - a logical interpretation of the Constitution that should be binding everywhere in the USA.


58 posted on 07/31/2010 1:58:49 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (When the ass brays, don't reply...)
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To: Lancey Howard

How about GPS safety-locking chips... so that they won’t work in, say, Washington DC?
[/cynic][/sarc]


59 posted on 07/31/2010 4:31:00 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Actually I am comfortable with the line of reasoning. Try and buy a B-61 on the private market. Look, I agree that serial numbers are indeed innocuous in and of themselves, even valuable when dealing with situations like theft. The problem is the the logic used to require them can easily be extended to require other modifications/conditions that render a firearm unusable for all practical purposes even though it may still be technically functional. Make no mistake that this is one direction we will be heading after the Heller decision.


60 posted on 07/31/2010 4:32:40 PM PDT by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: Mr Rogers

“The courts” rule many unconstitutional things.


61 posted on 07/31/2010 6:29:08 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Any “penalty” for an obliterated firearm serial number will just be ignored or served concurrently with whatever sentence a criminal receives...it has absolutely no effect on a criminal...only a law-abiding citizen will ever be affected by these arcane “laws” passed by the real criminal class...otherwise known as “politicians”.


62 posted on 08/01/2010 4:57:05 AM PDT by God Bless Dixie (Southron Pride)
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