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WTC Mosque, Meet the Auschwitz Nuns
Wall Street Journal ^ | 8-3-10 | William McGurn

Posted on 08/03/2010 9:50:38 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic

With every passing day, the dispute over the planned Islamic Center near Ground Zero grows more acrimonious. These feelings will probably only get worse today, when the New York City Landmark Preservation Commission is expected to remove another hurdle by ruling against landmark status for the undistinguished old building the center will replace.

So maybe it's time to look beyond the lawyers and landmark preservation commissions and regulatory agencies. When we do, it will be hard to find a better example than the grace and wisdom Pope John Paul II exhibited during a similar clash involving another hallowed site on whose grounds innocents were also murdered: Auschwitz.

In the 1980s, Carmelite nuns moved into an abandoned building on the edge of the former Nazi death camp to pray for the souls taken there. As with the dispute over the mosque near Ground Zero, the convent's presence escalated into a clash not only between different faiths but between competing historical narratives. As with today's clash too, it seemed intractable until the Polish pope stepped in.

For Jews, Auschwitz is a symbol of the Shoah, and the presence of a convent looked like an effort to Christianize a place of Jewish suffering.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: auschwitz; groundzero; islam; islamicimperialism; islamicsupremacists; jihadinamerica; mosque; newmecca; popejohnpaulii; stealthjihad; wtcmosque

Pope John Paul II wasn't afraid to bend to others' sensitivities.

1 posted on 08/03/2010 9:50:39 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic

The Nazi death camps weren’t a Christian act but the 911 attacks were jihadist holy war against America.


2 posted on 08/03/2010 9:52:24 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

It is hard to find anyone in NY who speaks English, NY puts their blessings on the one’s who want us dead.


3 posted on 08/03/2010 9:53:22 AM PDT by boomop1
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To: a fool in paradise
The Nazi death camps weren’t a Christian act but the 911 attacks were jihadist holy war against America.

Exactly.

4 posted on 08/03/2010 9:54:03 AM PDT by frogjerk (I believe in unicorns, fairies and pro-life Democrats.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

This is not at all the same. Neither the nuns nor the Catholic Church was attacking the Jews; in fact, this particular order lost several members (Jewish converts) to the Nazis. Many religious orders in France, Italy and Holland sheltered Jews; the Catholic Church gave refuge to Jews and certain Catholic countries, such as Spain, took in large numbers of refugees and protected other Jews in their embassies.

The Catholic Church did not attack the Jews. The Muslims did attack the US, and they still want to conquer us.

This mosque does not belong there.


5 posted on 08/03/2010 9:56:52 AM PDT by livius
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To: afraidfortherepublic

The article is a poor analogy and not relevant to the topic at hand.


6 posted on 08/03/2010 9:57:08 AM PDT by frogjerk (I believe in unicorns, fairies and pro-life Democrats.)
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To: a fool in paradise

When are they going to allow a Neo-Nazi info booth at Auschwits?


7 posted on 08/03/2010 10:00:18 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Many Catholics, not just in Poland, could not understand how nuns begging God's forgiveness and praying for the souls of the departed could possibly offend anyone.

Let's be frank here, the Mosque/Center, which is funded by untraced cash, will be a center of contact for future terrorists/rable-rousers that the FBI, CIA, etc... will have to infiltrate to keep an eye on things.

8 posted on 08/03/2010 10:00:47 AM PDT by frogjerk (I believe in unicorns, fairies and pro-life Democrats.)
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To: livius

The mosque is also named after the Western capital of Islamic conquest.


9 posted on 08/03/2010 10:02:07 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: ALPAPilot

A more apt question for the author is when can these nuns open up a convent in the segregated cities of Mecca and Medina?


10 posted on 08/03/2010 10:03:06 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I wish our president loved the US military as much as he loves Paul McCartney.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
competing historical narratives.

He got that part right. Carmelites were being murdered en masse by pagan utopians 150 years before Auschwitz -- nor did Nazis shrink from martyring them as well, including at Auschwitz.

JPII caved to pressure by groups seeking to "own" the moral high ground of all who suffered at Nazi hands. Not his finest hour.

11 posted on 08/03/2010 10:05:12 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

We know 6 million Jews were murdered in these camps but there were 7 or 8 million non Jews killed there too, I see nothing wrong with Catholic nuns on the site of these concentration camps.

However I feel strongly that these Muslims wanting to build a mosque at ground zero has nothing to do with wanting to comfort the souls of the )/11 victims. What greater insult than to have the WTC destroyed by muslims and then bulding a Mosque there. The idiot politicians of which frigging Bloomberg is the greatest would sell their own souls instead of standing up for America.


12 posted on 08/03/2010 10:10:02 AM PDT by Americanexpat
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Pope John Paul II wasn't afraid to bend to others' sensitivities.

Or, occasionally, to trample them. The former actor was a bit of a ham all his life and never lost his weakness for playing to the house. He had a healthy ego and wasn't always shy about backing his own agenda.

13 posted on 08/03/2010 10:10:07 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: frogjerk

First of all, it is a signed editorial at the Wall Street Journal published today. It is relevant. If you read the whole thing, McGurn is saying that the imams should prevail upon this group to move the mosque and cultural center to avoid stepping on raw feelings in NY. I’m sorry that you missed his point.


14 posted on 08/03/2010 10:12:25 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Southeast Wisconsin)
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To: Americanexpat; frogjerk

See #14. I totally agree with you on Auschwitz and the nuns, ExPat.

One of the problems here at FR is the requirement that we have to abbreviate articles from certian sources. Many people never click on the link to read the whole thing. I’m not accusing you of that, but I know that many do not.

The difference between editorial writing and news reporting is that the kernal of the article should be contained in the first sentence in a news article (who, what, when, where, why). An editorial has more latitude to roam around a topic before making its point in the last paragraph.

McGurn was aiming his admonition at the Muslim imam, not New Yorkers in general.

Not that I expect the highly charged public to pay any attention.


15 posted on 08/03/2010 10:23:00 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Southeast Wisconsin)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

I have known several Eastern European Catholics who were imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps. One recently died, age 95 — only survivor of it, from a well-to-do Polish Catholic family.


16 posted on 08/03/2010 10:45:02 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (668, neighbor of the beast, is tagline enough)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
"and this center is going to create that counter-momentum which will amplify the voices of the moderate Muslims."

Moderate Muslims are a figment of the imagination, like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

17 posted on 08/03/2010 10:47:55 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Pope John Paul II wasn't afraid to bend to others' sensitivities.


18 posted on 08/03/2010 10:49:16 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me)
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To: a fool in paradise

Exactly, the Nazi camps were the results of a humanist who did not believe all humans were created in the image of God but rather was strongly influenced by the relatively new “survival of the fittest” writings.


19 posted on 08/03/2010 10:57:10 AM PDT by MNDude (Ask the Native American's how their "Open Borders" policy worked out for them.)
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A very flawed comparison. As word of the 911 attack spread, Muslims all over the world danced and celebrated in the streets of their filth-strewn cities. We saw these images on TV. The Washington Post and NY Times carried stories about how even educated,sophisticated foreign Muslims welcomed the terror attacks. The same papers carried articles which described American Muslims as “ambivalent.”
Auschwitz was not carried our by religious Christians who thought they were advancing Christianity. Religious Christians did not celebrate the destruction of European Jewry. Innocent Christians, including many members of the clergy died in the Nazi camps. Not a few were there for aiding Jews.
Bloomberg is afraid NYC will be hit again. He is hoping that this gesture of surrender,this recognition of Islam's 911 victory, will buy future peace. We shall see. Appeasement as policy does not have a great track record.
20 posted on 08/03/2010 11:01:23 AM PDT by Godwin1
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To: RnMomof7

Can’t say the same for you, Mom.


21 posted on 08/03/2010 11:30:03 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: Godwin1

I don’t like the anology either, and as a Catholic, I don’t like the JP II caved, instead of explaining why Catholic Nuns had a right to be there. Saint Maximilian Kolbe was killed at Auschwitz and he was a Catholic Priest.


22 posted on 08/03/2010 11:45:19 AM PDT by Windy City Conservative (Kyle Smith)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

If the Cordoba Intiative really wants to bridge the cultural divide, they wouldn’t be building at Ground Zero.

Number of Churches and Synagogues in Mecca: 0.

What do you do when people who hate this country run it and keep getting re-elected?


23 posted on 08/03/2010 11:59:13 AM PDT by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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To: a fool in paradise

No one is saying that the Nazi death camps were of Christian doing. Far from it. We all know who committed 9-11, and who cheered the deed.


24 posted on 08/03/2010 4:15:52 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
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To: a fool in paradise

No one is saying that the Nazi death camps were of Christian doing. Far from it. We all know who committed 9-11, and who cheered the deed.

The Muslims were in league with Hitler during WWII. He promised the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem that he would deal with the Jews there after he dealt with them in Europe.


25 posted on 08/03/2010 4:17:38 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

One of the problems, however, is that McGurn starts with a different premise. You really can’t compare the Carmelites and the Muslims; Jews were “offended” by the Carmelites mostly because their self-proclaimed victimologist leaders (people like Abraham Foxman) told them they should be, he wanted Auschwitz to be solely Jewish (even though many other people, including Catholics, were put to death there), and in addition got on the left-wing bandwagon by making lots of completely false claims against the Catholic Church. Since reason was not involved in this - that is, there was absolutely no substance to his objections - I think the Carmelites and the Church did the right thing and accomodated him.

However, the situation with the Muslims is entirely different, and Islam is entirely different. Appealing to their better nature is not going to work: they take that as weakness, and they simply lie in response. The fact that this organization is called Cordoba House tells you all you need to know.

McGurn struck me as sadly naive, back in the old George Bush “Islam is a religion of peace” mode.


26 posted on 08/03/2010 5:17:59 PM PDT by livius
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