Posted on 08/06/2010 6:07:17 PM PDT by Libloather
Battle Looms Over Huge Costs of Public Pensions
By RON LIEBER
Published: August 6, 2010
There’s a class war coming to the world of government pensions.
The haves are retirees who were once state or municipal workers. Their seemingly guaranteed and ever-escalating monthly pension benefits are breaking budgets nationwide.
The have-nots are taxpayers who don’t have generous pensions. Their 401(k)s or individual retirement accounts have taken a real beating in recent years and are not guaranteed. And soon, many of those people will be paying higher taxes or getting fewer state services as their states put more money aside to cover those pension checks.
At stake is at least $1 trillion. That’s trillion, with a “t,” as in titanic and terrifying.
The figure comes from a study by the Pew Center on the States that came out in February. Pew estimated a $1 trillion gap as of fiscal 2008 between what states had promised workers in the way of retiree pension, health care and other benefits and the money they currently had to pay for it all. And some economists say that Pew is too conservative and the problem is two or three times as large.
So a question of extraordinary financial, political, legal and moral complexity emerges, something that every one of us will be taking into town meetings and voting booths for years to come: Given how wrong past pension projections were, who should pay to fill the 13-figure financing gap?
Consider what’s going on in Colorado — and what is likely to unfold in other states and municipalities around the country.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Libertarian ping
That was gambling.
I could have gone to Atlantic City or Las Vegas and probably done as well.
But, the American people thought this was a good thing, and put their hard earned dollars into it.
If anyone is still pouring a huge portion of their income into stocks and T-bills, you have lost your mind.
I love the poster... but...
Using the incorrect “your” on the poster detracts from the message. The poster maker should have used “you’re,” as in “you are.”
A common mistake, but when you’re targeting idiots, it’s best to correct the spelling errors before publication. Yes, I’ve made mistakes, too. We all do. However, this one just jumps off the screen.
Social Security, Medicare and now Pensions.
BOHICA
I am one of these. I paid 8% of my income into my pension. It is limited to the municipality where I worked and still live. Over the years we gave up pay raises and other increases to maintain what we had. For example, local businesses were handing out 8-10% raises one year and we got 3%-5. This was in the 90’s.
However, that being said, the problem is NOT with local areas that have their pensions. Where the problem is severe is state level systems of which many local governmental employees are also included. In Michigan there is MERS which is municipal employees retirement system.
Many of these systems pay out annual cost of living raises such running 2-4 percent per year. There is NO WAY the state system can survive. My pension sytem is more secure and is covered by local dollars.
I concur that under the current sytem municipal pensions are not sustainable and changes must be implemented immediately. However, changes must be made going forward. I cannot change my income in this economy.I have worked all but the last 18 months due to the economy and I do not have access to social security. I have nothing to fall back on except work. Which I am trying to find!
Understand that I think the Bell, CA situation is obscenely stupid. But please use caution about public pensions unless looking at it, in part, through the prism of history.
Believe me when I say this. The money to save jobs for state teachers and first responders which will be voted in on 8/10/10 will go to fund state pensions.
I’m ready for the fight!!! These PENSIONS are RIDICULOUS!! THEY ARE UNSUSTAINABLE!!!!
later
See you soon.
There's one of the main problems right there.
Retirement age should be raised to 70, especially in light of the fact that today's life expectancy is so high.
What's a retired person at 58 gonna do for the next 30 years of their life...mope around the house? Likely most would be happier working. And, if not, they need to plan special arrangements for themselves.
“I see two Americas...”
Gary Justus, one of the lead plantiffs in the suit, retired at age 55!
“If you find the argument of Colorado’s retirees wanting, let your local legislator know that you don’t want to be responsible for every last dollar necessary to cover pension guarantees gone horribly awry. After all, many government employee unions will be taking contrary positions and doing so rather loudly.
If you work for a state or local government, start saving money outside of the pension plan if you haven’t already, because that plan may not last for as long as you need it.
And if you’re a government retiree or getting close to the end of your career? Consider what it means to be a citizen in a community. And what it means to be civil instead of litigious, coming to the table and making a compromise before politicians shove it down your throat and you feel compelled to challenge them to a courthouse brawl.
“We have to do what unions call givebacks,” said Mr. Lamm, the former Colorado governor. “That’s the only way to sanity. Any other alternative, therein lies dragons.””
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To read this coming from the NYT of all sources, one may well take it to be an official communique.
I imagine a lot of them will probably do work elsewhere for a few year while drawing the pension.
But if I'm 65 - that would kinda suck - no? My plans were to mope around the house - and you blow that right out of the water! It crushes every one of my dreams.
WHO THE HELL ARE TOU TO DECIDE ANYTHING INVOLVING MY LIFE?
Do I thank you now - or later?
I’m one of those who decided early in life to work for the public sector. I started at 23 years old and have been paying into my retirement plan for 30 years.
Now, because of the crap that is happening I’m supposed to feel guilty because the whiners didn’t plan as well as I did 30 years ago?
Screw all you aholes!!!
You sound like a government employee.
When you’re living off the largesse of a public that is increasingly strapped for cash, it appears you didn’t so much plan well as just buy a little time before you circle the drain yourself.
Enjoy the ride down, all those you term “aholes” will be waiting for you, lol.
What's a retired person at 58 gonna do for the next 30 years of their life...mope around the house? Likely most would be happier working. And, if not, they need to plan special arrangements for themselves.
Except that there's 15 million unemployed Americans waiting for these older workers to retire. It's a demographic disaster no matter how you look at it.
Note to self:
Never take advice from one who cannot properly use “you’re.”
Now, because of the crap that is happening I’m supposed to feel guilty because the whiners didn’t plan as well as I did 30 years ago?
Screw all you aholes!!!
What percent of your income did you pay in? What did the government pay in on your behalf? Why did you expect the government to invest (spend) your money wisely?
I'm sorry, but you bought into something that was too good to be true. Your decision ranks right up there with someone voluntarily deciding "That there Social Security sounds like a great thing - start taking a big ol chunk out of my paycheck today!"
"Now, because of the crap that is happening I’m supposed to pay even more taxes because the public employees decided their best lot in life was living off of someone else's dime 30 years ago? Screw them that want to put the thumb screws to the rest of us because they were foolish enough to think the government was a competent retirement fund manager passing Willie Wonka's golden tickets."
True - but also, what jobs are there going to be for oldsters who find themselves out of work anyway? There can only be so many Wal-Mart greeters in the world, and there are only 9 Supreme Court justices.
I didn’t make the poster, it was off Google; but if it makes you feel better about yourself.....then fine.
Oh, good gravy. What is it with the grammar police here? What is the matter? Did you not do as well on your Chemistry or Physics classes, and feel you have to compensate?
I am going to have to cite you for a dangling participle.
It isn't my poster, and if you really feel that strongly about it, I suggest you write your (proper use of your there) Congressman....or Congresswoman.
I always find it fascinating that teachers like to lump themselves in with cops and firefighters.
In fact, here in NJ, they made a big deal about laying off firefighters first with the budget cuts. We told them at a town meeting to lay off teachers because they were more expendable - and they had a cow.
They do this on purpose. The know the public values first responders more than they do teachers, so they try and milk it for all it is worth.
Gamble, smoke, and drink.
That's what I see many of them doing.
Be careful.
The people are pissed off. It is precisely your attitude that is going to screw your retirement check.
The former encumbers your children and theirs. The latter encumbers only you and your peers at the time.
The former is popular with politicians because it promises them your vote now for a future benefit that they will not have to deliver.
“It is precisely your attitude that is going to screw your retirement check.”
Exactly.
Thank you for your insightful comments.
Private sector pensions have been under attack for at least two decades as private companies calculated the long term costs. The costs were unsustainable so companies cut back their pension plans.
Public sectors pension costs are even more unsustainable and must be reduced to a viable level. Welcome back to reality...
What the Hell did we have to say about it when the Freakin Unions got all this Crap put into place in the First Place .
Government Unions should be Banned ,If you work for the Government you are a Government SERVANT, If As we are told you are SACRIFICING then SACRIFICE ,you dont get to rip off the Owners,you want to work for the Government you are supposed to get paid LESS than the Private sector not double what the private sector gets ,STOP LYING to the American Public,you should all be Fired and your Pensions forfeited to the Social security fund and you will henceforth receive your checks from there
I’m one of those who decided early in life to work for the public sector.
just curious - Should military pensions be at risk too?
I’ll have 25 years of service when I retire. I’ve deployed 3 times and will most likely go again. I’ve risked my life, been shot at, been separated from my family for countless months etc. Did I earn my 50% of base pay for life after I hang it up?
Am I supposed to congratulate you for taking the easy way out?
That's what I see many of them doing.
Seriously, more smoking and drinking would solve a lot of these problems. The mathematics behind sustainable pensions worked best when Americans would die shortly after leaving the workforce. Now grandpa takes his Centrum Silver, eats lean meat and jogs 5k a day so he can enjoy 25 years of retirement.
Don’t forget the double-dippers! Those who are collecting pension checks and being a paid consultant.
You posted it as your own.
Don’t blame me for your poor editing.
So do many people here.
It doesn't mean I take them with my own digital camera.
I just don't understand the pettiness of your post. The problem with posts like yours is you set yourself up as somehow perfect, when we all know we all make spelling or grammar errors (and that picture wasn't even mine.)
So, if you ever make a error with one of your posts, you are instantly a raging hypocrite. Is that what you want?
Keep digging.
Well, it just goes to show you, just because someone is Conservative doesn't mean they can't be a jerk.
LOL. This idiot at the NY Times is just discovering this problem now? How stupid are these people?
Found three grammatical errors on your brief home page in a matter of seconds. SkyPilot didn't make the poster. You did create the home page.
Never accept financial advice from someone who confuses “you’re” with “your.”
I have suspected all along that your obsessive compulsive focus on a third parties use of a contraction and a possessive adjective were throwaway complaints to a much much bigger nerve that was touched.
I am right about the fallacy of shoveling piles of your hard earned cash into "investments" these days.
They are taking your money, and laughing. T-bills are even worse. It will take some painful reckoning, but people will eventually catch on.
Seven Reasons Not to Invest in the Stock Market in 2010
Earnings are way down, and stock have not been this unprofitable in 80 years. Our national debt is a logarithmic chart that looks like the Richter scale.
Expand this chart to $13 Trillion (not 9 Trillion as shown from just a few short years ago), and you get the idea.
And yet, despite all of this evidence of gathering storm clouds, I know of people who hold onto their investments like a meth smoker who just found his lost pipe.
“For example, local businesses were handing out 8-10% raises one year and we got 3%-5.”
You worked in government far to long if you think any business, other than government “hands out” raises and that somehow you were deprived.
I am sorry you are having financial difficulties - but many people work very hard and do not have a pension, yet must pay taxes that are about to get a lot higher to pay the municipal pension that you receive.
Taxpayers will not pay taxes for pensions in return for no, or severely degraded municipal services.
Good luck.
“Now, because of the crap that is happening I’m supposed to feel guilty because the whiners didn’t plan as well as I did 30 years ago?”
No, but your check may well eventually be a lot smaller than you and your “plan” figured.
“Screw all you aholes!!!”
You should be nicer to the folks that will decide whether you will get to enjoy the largess of the taxpayer in the future.
I have to ask you this: what is troubling you so much? What did I do to make you so upset with me? It can't be because of a picture where "you're and "your" were misused - and a picture that I didn't even make! Were you angry before?
I will admit, I was not in the best of moods when I posted some of my replies. So, I hope you forgive me about that.
If there is something you need to talk or pray about, let me know in a private reply, and I will keep that confidential. I will also pray to Christ for both of us.
I am sorry if I was a jerk myself at any time during this thread. The Lord knows I can be one.
Night.
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