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Amos Rucker--A Soldier Remembered
Canada Free Press ^ | August 8, 2010 | Calvin E. Johnson, Jr.

Posted on 08/08/2010 4:20:05 PM PDT by BigReb555

"When you eliminate the Black Confederate soldier, you've eliminated the history of the South."---The late Dr. Leonard Haynes, Professor, Southern University

(Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: blackconfederate; brokebackrebels; civilwar; confederatewannabees; dixie; factsyankeesdontlike; fakephotograph; givingliberalsammo; nothingtoseehere; proslaveryrinos; revisionist; southernwhine; thesouthlost; traitorworship; truthsyanksignore; wannabeconfederates; zakrevisionism
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What is your community doing to commemorate the War Between the States Sesquicentennial-150th Anniversary “2011-2015?” See what the Georgia Division Sons of Confederate Veterans is doing at: http://www.150wbts.org/

August 10th marks the 105th anniversary of the death of a Southern soldier who was a friend to many--Amos Rucker. Black Confederates, why haven't we heard more about them? "I don't want to call it a conspiracy to ignore the role of the Blacks, both above and below the Mason-Dixon Line, but it was definitely a tendency that began around 1910"---Ed Bearss, National Park Service Historian.

In 1905, newspapers led with the opening of Woolworth's stores, the Atlanta, Ga. Terminal Railroad Station dedication with the US Army Band playing "Dixie.".....And on August 10th Atlanta grieved the loss of a beloved soldier and friend.

The movie "Glory" enlightened people of the role played by African-Americans serving in the Union Army during the War Between the States, 1861-1865.

And books like, "Forgotten Confederates---An Anthology about Black Southerners" by Charles Kelly Barrow, J.H. Segars and R.B. Roseburg, have further enlightened us to the role played by African-Americans serving in the Confederate Armed Forces.

Frederick Douglas, abolitionist and former slave, reported, "There are at present moment many colored men in the Confederate Army doing their duty not only as cooks, but also as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets."

Who was Amos Rucker?

Amos Rucker, born in Elbert County, Georgia, was a servant of Alexander "Sandy" Rucker and both of these men joined the 33rd Georgia Regiment of the Confederate Army. Amos got his first taste of battle when a fellow soldier was killed by a Union bullet. Rucker quickly took the dead soldier's rifle and fired back at the enemy.

After the War Between the States, Amos Rucker came back to Atlanta where he met and married Martha and the couple was blessed with many children and grandchildren. In Atlanta, Amos joined the W.H.T. Walker Camp of the United Confederate Veterans. It was made up of Southern Veterans whose purpose was to remember those who served in the war and help those in need. The meetings were held at 102 Forsyth Street in Atlanta where Amos was responsible for calling the roll of members.

Amos and Martha felt that the members of Walker Camp were like their own family. It is written that Amos would say, quote "My folks gave me everything I want." Unquote

These UCV men helped Amos and his wife buy a house on the west side of Atlanta and John M. Slaton also helped prepare a will for Rucker. Slaton, a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, John B. Gordon Camp, would, as governor of Georgia, commute the death sentence of Leo Frank.

Amos Rucker's last words to members of his UCV Camp were, "Give my love to the boys."

His funeral services were conducted by, preacher and former Confederate General Clement A. Evans. Rucker was buried with his Confederate gray uniform and wrapped in his beloved Confederate Battle Flag. Today, some members of the Martin Luther King family are buried near Amos and Martha at Southview Cemetery.

The Reverend T.P. Cleveland led the prayer and when Captain William T. Harrison read the poem, "When Rucker Called The Roll" there was not a dry eye among the crowd of the many Black and White mourners.

The grave of Amos and Martha Rucker was without a marker for many years until 2006, when the Sons of Confederate Veterans remarked it.

"When you eliminate the Black Confederate soldier, you've eliminated the history of the South."---The late Dr. Leonard Haynes, Professor, Southern University

1 posted on 08/08/2010 4:20:09 PM PDT by BigReb555
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To: BigReb555

ping


2 posted on 08/08/2010 4:24:30 PM PDT by dalebert ( an)
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To: BigReb555
Surely men like this are being celebrated in history classes across the US public schools system in all due reverence to the sacred principles of Diversity.
3 posted on 08/08/2010 4:27:08 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth
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To: BigReb555

Thanks for the post. I wrote a college paper on black confederates last year and I used the book you mentioned. These soldiers deserve more recognition.


4 posted on 08/08/2010 4:37:01 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: BigReb555

5 posted on 08/08/2010 4:40:49 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: BigReb555

6 posted on 08/08/2010 4:44:22 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: BigReb555

7 posted on 08/08/2010 4:47:07 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: BigReb555

8 posted on 08/08/2010 4:56:57 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: BigReb555

I have it on good authority that no Blacks served for the Confederacy of their own volition.
My family were present and heard the Atlanta History Center turn away a young Black reenactor. They would not allow him to tell his family’s story at a reenactment event because it did not match their PC idea of history. In short they were uncomfortable allowing a Black man dressed in a Confederate uniform on the property because it conflicted with their narrative. We later had supper with him and he told us the story of his free Black New Orleans ancestor who had served. BTW he has CDVs and documentary proof to back up his story.
There is also a researcher in NC who is gathering information on the subject. He spoke at a local SCV meeting.


9 posted on 08/08/2010 5:00:21 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: BigReb555

There is a black man who walks around Farmville VA carrying a Confederate Flag. I have seen him on HS-C football weekends.


10 posted on 08/08/2010 5:02:48 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

H.K. Edgertons’ wesite,

http://www.southernheritage411.com/


11 posted on 08/08/2010 5:03:55 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes
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To: silentreignofheroes

Also his web-site


12 posted on 08/08/2010 5:04:55 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes
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To: BigReb555

13 posted on 08/08/2010 5:09:10 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: silentreignofheroes

Thanks. Nice site. :)


14 posted on 08/08/2010 5:11:05 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: dalebert

Is this the man for whom Ft. Rucker is named?


15 posted on 08/08/2010 5:11:54 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: kalee

I don’t recall the provenance of the quote, but it goes something like this -

“God cannot change the past, but historians can”.


16 posted on 08/08/2010 5:16:01 PM PDT by Senator John Blutarski (The progress of government: republic, democracy, technocracy, bureaucracy, plutocracy, kleptocracy,)
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To: BigReb555

Mark


17 posted on 08/08/2010 5:18:37 PM PDT by sport
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To: BigReb555

Or that even more heroic figure, the black Klansman.


18 posted on 08/08/2010 5:26:23 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: kalee

there is also a book about “Free Blacks of Louisiana” that is referred to in Ann Rice’s “Feast of All Saints”. She used it as research for her book. It describes free black society and the plantations they owned in Louisiana.
That state has a rich history.


19 posted on 08/08/2010 5:38:23 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

The CSA refused to accept the 1st Louisiana Native Guard into service, so most of the soldiers deserted to the Union Army.


20 posted on 08/08/2010 5:41:23 PM PDT by Michael Zak
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To: dalebert

I’ve read it. Supper with that young man led me to do some reading on the subject. It also reinforced the concept to never take anything at face value always do my own research and ask questions.


21 posted on 08/08/2010 5:42:33 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Michael Zak

Yes. And later when some Union officers beat some young black drummer boys in front of the black regiment they all got really upset, ran for their weappons, and yelled “Kill all the damn Yankees!”


22 posted on 08/08/2010 5:45:55 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis; BigReb555

In the real world, they were enlisted by Ben Butler into the Union Army and fought the rebels at Port Hudson.

Blacks in the rebel army were expressly forbidden by Confederate law until 1865. Sometimes, rebel officers dressed their manservant slaves in Confederate uniforms to have their pictures taken together, hence the photos that ecist today.


23 posted on 08/08/2010 6:09:23 PM PDT by Michael Zak
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To: Michael Zak

>> Blacks in the rebel army were expressly forbidden by Confederate law until 1865. <<

Technically yes. But many served in the ranks anyway. Recruiters weren’t always very particular, and many manservants, cooks, and others went into battle with the rest of the army. When Jackson’s corp marched through one town, a Union fellow there remarked that there quite a few blacks in Jackson’s army alone. I forgot if his estimate was in the hundreds or the thousands. The fellow was amazed that the blacks and whites where marching side by side. Frederick Douglas himself admitted that there were many blacks fighting in the Confederate army. Some of these black Confederates were captured by the Union army and sent to prisoner of war camps. Some refused to take the oath of allegience to the United States. One manservant was asked why he wouldn’t take the oath when his master had. He replied, “Master has no principles.” Another manservant tolk his captors he was a secessionist Negro. I could give so many more examples....


24 posted on 08/08/2010 6:37:30 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: Michael Zak
I wrote a paper once about minorities in the Confederate armies. Here it is for any who are interested: ------------------------------------------------------------ Red and Yellow, Black and White: The Contributions of Minorities to the Confederate Cause------------------------------------------------------------ Many people today are unaware of the service of minorities in the Confederacy, often because numerous historians overlook the issue. But despite the lack of attention they receive, their existence remains a well documented fact. Thousands of ethnic minorities served the Southern cause in one way or another throughout the course of the war and aided the war effort in every conceivable way. It is time they receive more recognition. The largest minority group to support the Confederacy was the black population. Though many of blacks obviously favored the Union, many others clearly did not and were devoted instead to their native states. Dr. L. L Haynes, an African-American educator from Louisiana, allows: “Johnny Reb was not just a white man, he was black too.” (qtd. in Kennedy) It is estimated that there were between 40,000 and 65,000 Confederates of color, free and slave, and an estimated 13,000 saw combat (Rollins 121; Williams). When the South seceded and the war began, patriotic fervor swept up both blacks and whites. In Lynchburg, 70 free blacks enlisted to fight for the defense of Virginia soon after she seceded, in Hampton 300 blacks volunteered to serve in artillery batteries, and in Nashville and Augusta companies of blacks volunteered for service (Rollins 2-3). In New Orleans the free colored population declared their love for the State of Louisiana and fifteen hundred men signed up to offer their services in defense of their home state (Rollins 38-39). Black southerners donated money to the cause and balls were held by free colored folks throughout the South to raise money for soldiers and thousands of dollars, clothes, blankets and etc. were sent (Rollins 4). William Ellison, a free black man and the third largest slave owner in South Carolina, sent his son off to join an artillery unit and changed his crop from cotton to foodstuffs for the army (Johnson 133). Although blacks were not officially allowed to enlist and fight as soldiers in the Confederate army as they did in many Native Guard units, many slipped in anyhow. Oftentimes recruiting officers were not very particular and the only question they would ask is “Will you fight?” As a result, thousands of blacks ended up serving as privates in the Southern army. They bragged that “The Soufren colored man can whip a norfern nigger and de Yankee to back him.” (qtd. in Rollins 4) Concerning the blacks that served under him during the war, General Forrest remarked that “better Confederates did not live.” (qtd. in Rollins 95) Unlike the Union army, the Confederate army paid black southerners the same pay as the rest of the soldiers, provided them with the same rations, and allowed them to march side by side with the rest of the army, even if this was not yet authorized by the Confederate government (Johnson 171). Horace Greeley, the famous abolitionist, wrote, “For more than two years, Negroes have been extensively employed in belligerent operations by the Confederacy. They have been embodied and drilled as rebel soldiers and paraded with white troops at a time when this would not have been tolerated in the armies of the Union.” (qtd. in Johnson 172) A Union surgeon caught behind Confederate lines as Lee’s army moved through Maryland also remarked in his diary about such black southerners: Wednesday, September 10 At 4 o’clock this morning the Rebel army began to move from our town, Jackson’s force taking the advance…. The most liberal calculation could not give them more that 64,000 men. Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in the number… They had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc. They were supplied, in many instances, with knapsacks, haversacks, canteens, etc., and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederacy army…. (qtd. in Rollins 10) Most of these men were not on any official muster rolls, so the official documentation is very thin. Many served without the benefit of uniforms or official Government sanctions, at least until late in the war. But this, however, this did not prevent them from joining in the struggle. Later on in the war, the Confederate government finally began to officially enlist black southerners, but not many of these new, all-black units saw service before the war was over. An even larger number of blacks were with the army as body servants accompanying their masters, and many were promised their freedom for their service. They preformed every job conceivable. They served as cooks, teamsters, trench diggers, medical assistants, fifers and drummers, and camp musicians. They cared for the horses, pitched and struck tents, and washed clothes. Many of them even managed to see fighting by accompanying their masters into battle. On June 10, 1861, at the battle of Big Bethel, it is recorded that a colored body servant shot down the first Union officer of the war (Johnson 152). Another veteran recalled that the regimental cooks would march into battle right behind their masters. It is recorded that at Seven Pines a cook and minister with an Alabama regiment became excited in the midst of everything and took up a rifle and went into the battle. He was heard to yell to the regiment, “De Lord hab mercy on us all, boys, here dey come agin! Dar it is,” he exclaimed as the Federals fired over their heads, “just as I taught! Can’t shoot worth a bad five-cent piece. Now’s de time, boys!” and as the Alabamians returned fire and charged, he was heard shouting, “Pitch in, White folks—Uncle Pomp’s behind yer. Send all de Yankees to de ‘ternal flames, whar dere’s weeping and gnashing of-sail in Alabama; stick ‘em wid de bayonet, and send all de blue ornery cusses to de state of eternal fire and brimstone!” (qtd. in Rollins 14). Even when captured, many black servants remained loyal to the cause. One black southerner captured at Gettysburg refused to join his captors and “fight ‘ginst my government.” Two black North Carolinians captured with their master were offered to be released in Boston by the Yankees. However, they responded, “We is seches [secessionist] niggers ourselves, sah! We rader stick to our massah, sah.” (qtd. in Barrow 24) Another master and slave were captured and sent to Point Lookout Prison, and there were asked to sign an oath of loyalty to the Union. The master signed, but the slave did not. When asked why he refused to sign, the slave replied: “Massa has no principles.” (qtd. in Rollins 11) Because of such loyalty to the cause exhibited by many black servants there are several monuments in the South dedicated to them. Blacks also spied for the Confederacy. They would cross into the Union lines and then come back with accurate details of the numbers and dispositions of Federal troops. The Yankees did not suspect them because they supposed all blacks to be on their side. Blacks with Southern sympathies would take advantage of this often. When the Yankees picked local blacks to be their guides, it was not uncommon for them to be led down the longest paths, or into ambushes. However, the Yankees often killed guides suspected of playing such tricks (Johnson 154). Besides serving in the army, huge numbers of blacks supported the South’s infrastructure. They planted and harvested crops, built defense works around nearly every Southern city, served in the hospitals, and worked in the factories. One historian estimates that about half of the workers in Richmond’s Tredegar Iron Works, the largest and most important in the Confederacy, were black (Rollins 4). Without these services, the Confederacy would not have lasted a day. Such service and loyalty, however, often irked the Yankees. One black Winchester resident became a local hero after being jailed because of his refusal to work for the Federals. He was forced to chop wood with an iron ball and chain attached to his arms and legs but stubbornly vowed to support the Confederacy to his last breath (Jordan 58). When the war was long over, many black confederate soldiers and servants were given pensions by the Southern states in recognition of their service. The Federal government was not so kind. They provided tombstones for all the war dead, and money for burial costs and tombstones for all Union veterans (white and black) and for white Confederate veterans, but refused to do so for the confederates of color. Thus, many black confederates lie in unmarked graves lost to memory (Rollins 111). But the memory of their honorable service must never be forgotten or ignored. As Dr. Leonard Hayes, an African-American professor at Southern University reminds us, “When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you’ve eliminated the history of the South.” (qtd. in Williams) Jews also served in the Southern army. It is estimated that there were approximately 25,000 Jews in the South when the war started, and about 3,000, or 12%, volunteered for service (Rosen 61-62). They served at three times the rate of Northern Jews, of whom only 4% went off to fight (Johnson 176-77). “The Jews of the Confederacy had a good reason to be loyal to their section,” Rabbi Korn concluded. “Nowhere else in America—certainly not in the ante-bellum North—had Jews been accorded such an opportunity to be complete equals as in the old South.” (qtd. in Rosen 54) Rabbi Max Michelbacher of Richmond’s Congregation Beth Ahabah in wrote a prayer distributed to Jewish Confederates. One paragraph of it reads: “O Lord, God, Father, Give unto the officers of the Army and of the Navy of the Confederate States, enterprise, fortitude and undaunted courage; teach them the ways of war and winning of victory.” (qtd. in Johnson 177) Jewish Johnny Rebs served in every part of the war. A commander of one of the chief artillery batteries in the bombardment of Fort Sumter was Jewish (Rosen 2). The Confederacy’s quartermaster general, Abraham Myers, was Jewish, and Fort Myers Florida is named for him. The officer entrusted with guarding and distributing the last of the Confederate gold was also Jewish (Johnson 177). Speaking of Jewish soldiers, General Thomas Waul wrote: “As soldiers they were brave, orderly and well-disciplined and in no respect inferior to the gallant body of which they formed a prominent part.” He also stated, “I neither saw nor heard of any Jew shirking or failing to answer to any call of duty or danger.” (qtd. in Rosen 213) The most prominent Jew in the Confederacy was Judah P. Benjamin. During the course of the war he served first as Attorney General, then as Secretary of War, and finally as Secretary of State, becoming the first Jewish cabinet member in North America (Crocker 333). Some historians called him “the brains of the Confederacy.” Charles Roland described him as “the President’s most intimate friend and counselor,” and Varina Davis called him her husband’s “right arm.” (qtd. in Rosen 77) President Davis himself said Benjamin was “the ablest and most faithful member of his advisory counsel.” (qtd. in Rosen 352) He also became the only Jewish American to appear on currency (Rosen 77). In the North he was despised not just for being a Confederate, but also for being Jewish. Senator Henry Wilson of Massachusetts claimed that Benjamin was part of a “foul and wicked plot to…overthrow the government of his adopted country which gives equality of rights even to that race that stones prophets and crucified the Redeemer of the world.” Andrew Johnson referred to him as “a sneaking, Jewish, unconscionable traitor.” (qtd. in Rosen 70) Later, after Lincoln’s assassination, people in the North accused Jefferson Davis and Judah Benjamin of being the leaders of the plot. Lincoln’s Secretary of State, William H. Seward, claimed that Booth had conferred with Benjamin, and that Benjamin had encouraged and subsidized him (Rosen 320). Sure that he would never get a fair trial, Benjamin fled to Europe before he could be captured. Years after the war, a Jewish Confederate named Moses Ezekiel, dedicated himself to the task of preserving the memory of the Confederacy. He made several monuments, including the famous Confederate Monument at Arlington, which, interestingly enough, also shows a black soldier marching in step with the rest of the army (Rosen 368). One of the few reminders of Southern Jews themselves is the Jewish Confederate cemetery in Richmond, which is the only Jewish military cemetery outside of Israel (Brody). Though small, it serves as a perpetual tribute to the memory of Jewish Johnny Rebs throughout the South. In addition to blacks and Jews, and number of Indians also fought for the South. The so-called Five Civilized Tribes—the Cherokees, Creeks, Choctaws, Chickasaws, and Seminoles, sided with the Confederacy. In October 1861, the Cherokee Nation issued the Declaration by the People of the Cherokee Nation of the Causes Which Have Impelled them to Unite Their Fortunes With Those of the Confederate States of America, part of which reads: Whatever causes the Cherokee people may have had in the past to complain of some of the Southern States, they cannot but feel that their interests and destiny and inseparably connected to those of the South. The was now waging is a war of Northern cupidity and fanaticism…against the commercial freedom of the South, and against the political freedom of the states, and its objects are to annihilate the sovereignty of those states and utterly change the nature of the general government. (qtd in Woods 71) Their support delighted the Confederacy, and they were promised their own state, and not a mere reservation (Woods 70). They formed units such as the Cherokee Mounted Rifles and Mounted Reserves (“War Within a War”). Native Americans also made up a large part of Thomas’s Legion. They served in many operations, mostly in the western theater of the war. The most famous Cherokee Confederate was Stand Watie. His Cherokee name was Degataga, which means “he stands.” (“Stand Watie”) He formed the 2nd Cherokee Mounted Rifles and led them in the battle of Pea Ridge, Arkansas in 1862. Soon after, he was given command of a brigade and led them in eighteen engagements. In 1864, he became the only Indian on either side to be appointed general. The next year, in June, he became the last Confederate general to surrender a standing army on the field (“Stand Watie”). Several thousand Indians battled Federals during the course of the war, mostly from the Cherokee and Creek tribes. Unfortunately, many of them found that their war did not end in 1865, as it had for the rest of the nation. Many of the same generals who had torched the South continued their military careers in the West, driving the Indians from the Plains (Johnson 175). A few other minorities not mentioned above also fought in the Southern Army. A number of Mexicans from Texas joined, and there were at least two Confederates of Asian decent. They were the sons of Eng and Chang Bunker, the original Siamese twins, who had married sisters and settled in North Carolina (Johnson 176). The records and accounts of the services of these many minority groups are enough to fill quite a few books. The existence of so many minorities in the Confederate forces often goes against people’s perception of the war and what it was about. However, perceptions are not always consistent with reality, and it is time that more people re-examined their assessment of history. To ignore the many contributions of racial and religious minorities is to eliminate the history of the South. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Works Cited: Barrow, Charles Kelly, J. H. Segars, and R. B. Rosenburg, eds. Black Confederates. Gretna, LA: Pelican, 1995 Brody, Seymour. “The Only Jewish Military Cemetery Outside of Israel is in Richmond, VA.” 15 December 2008. 10 October 2009. “Civil War—A War Within A War.” Cherokee Nation. Crocker, H. W. III. The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Civil War. Washington, DC: Regnery, 2008 Interpretation Staff, “Colonel Stand Watie.” 23 October 2003. National Park Service. 10 October 2009. Johnson, Clint. The Politically Incorrect Guide to The South. Washington, DC: Regnery, 2006 Kennedy, James Ronald and Walter Donald. The South Was Right! Gretna, LA: Pelican, 1994. Rollins, Richard, ed. Black Southerners in Gray: Essays on Afro-Americans in the Confederate Armies. Redondo Beach, CA: Rank and File Publications, 1994. Rosen, Robert N. The Jewish Confederates. Columbia, SC: University of South Carolina Press, 2000. Williams, Scott K. “Black Confederates in the Civil War.” Copyright 1998-2003. 10 October 2009. Woods, Thomas E. The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History. Washington, DC: Regnery, 2004.
25 posted on 08/08/2010 6:52:37 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

Please provide a link to any Confederate Army table of organization listing a unit with African-American soldiers.


26 posted on 08/08/2010 7:03:49 PM PDT by Michael Zak
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To: Michael Zak

Because they were not technically allowed to serve, they were not usually listed on any tables as soldiers. They were listed as manservants, cooks, and etc. regardless of the fact that many also carried rifles.


27 posted on 08/08/2010 7:08:40 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: Michael Zak

I reccomend that you read “Black Confederates” by Charles Barrow and “Black Southerners in Gray: Essays on Afro-Americans in the Confederate Armies” by Richard Rollins. Educate yourself please and quit doing a disservice to Confederates of colour.


28 posted on 08/08/2010 7:14:41 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: southernsunshine

ping!


29 posted on 08/08/2010 7:21:22 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

They were slaves.


30 posted on 08/08/2010 7:26:37 PM PDT by Michael Zak
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
I wrote a paper once about minorities in the Confederate armies. Here it is for any who are interested

Nice paper! Thanks so much for posting this.

31 posted on 08/08/2010 7:31:18 PM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: Michael Zak; DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis; manc; Idabilly; cowboyway; central_va; jessduntno
Manc, IDB, CB, VA, JDN - Seems like Mr. Zak isn't content to just bash the South. Seems he also wants to discredit men of color who served with honor for the confederacy. Shall we give him a history lesson? They seem to want to drop the subject when we provide proof.

They were slaves

Nope, free men of color served also.

Please provide a link to any Confederate Army table of organization listing a unit with African-American soldiers

Actually, a couple are in existance. Hint, check out North Carolina. Also, Tennessee passed legislation authorizing all free male persons of color between the ages of 15 and 50 to be pressed into service. Serving the CSA with state militia units was common since many states refused to surrender their militias to the CSA. It's that states rights thing you see.

Since you appear to promote the idea that Lincoln Rebublicans were for equality for the negroes, please provide a Union Army table listing a NON-SEGREGATED troop of black soldiers.

32 posted on 08/08/2010 8:47:08 PM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: southernsunshine

I’ll take it from your response that you cannot find CSA army listing of African-Amercan troops. Free blacks were also banned until March 1865.


33 posted on 08/08/2010 9:01:54 PM PDT by Michael Zak
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To: Michael Zak

A letter by a Federal officer:
Col. Giles Smith commanded the First Brigade and Col. T. Kilby Smith, Fifty-fourth Ohio, the Fourth. I communicated to these officers General Sherman’s orders and charged Colonel Smith, Fifty-fourth Ohio, specially with the duty of clearing away the road to the crossing and getting it into the best condition for effecting our crossing that he possibly could. The work was vigorously pressed under his immediate supervision and orders, and he devoted himself to it with as much energy and activity as any living man could employ. It had to be prosecuted under the fire of the enemy’s sharpshooters, protected as well as the men might be by our skirmishers on the bank, who were ordered to keep up so vigorous a fire that the enemy should not dare to lift their heads above their rifle-pits; but the enemy, and especially their armed negroes, did dare to rise and fire, and did serious execution upon our men. The casualties in the brigade were 11 killed, 40 wounded, and 4 missing; aggregate, 55. Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
D. STUART,
Brigadier-General, Commanding.”


34 posted on 08/08/2010 10:42:20 PM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: Michael Zak

Problems with Documenting Black Confederates

1. Muster Rolls: Virtually all Confederate muster rolls do not contain any racial information. While it is fairly easy to identify American Indians and Hispanics by their non-Anglo names, most blacks, on the other hand, adopted European names. Although some individuals can be assumed to be slaves for lacking last names, but free blacks are virtually indistinguishable from their white comrades-in-arms. For instance, brothers, Arthur and Miles Reed both served as Privates in Co.D, 3rd NC Artillery (also in the 40th NC Infantry), but Broadfoot’s Confederate roster (index of National Archives’ service records) does not in any way identify them as black. Due to these difficulties, secondary sources including pension records, United Confederate Veteran files, and family records must supplement research in suspected black soldiers.
It should also should be noted that for some States, muster roll records are notoriously incomplete for a variety of reasons. For example in Alabama, many of this military records were destroyed or conveniently lost rather than hand them over to the Federal government where persecution of ex-Confederate was a very real possibility. In Missouri, a serious attempt to compile Confederate muster records did not begin until 1908, by that time many rolls were lost and many veterans had already passed away. As a result, the completeness of Confederate muster rolls are a recognized problem, not only for the black Confederate descendant but for many white Confederate soldiers as well.

2. Pension records: Only those surviving to pension age, or were aware of this benefit, or were fortunate enough to overcome postwar anti-Negro prejudice. Since pension files were controlled by State authority, they were often subject to a local county review board. This caused considerably differences in various States and from county to county. South Carolina, for instance, recorded 30 black Confederates pensioners in one county (York County) alone, Tennessee claimed 267, while the State of Missouri, which was rather hesitant to issue pensions to anyone, let alone to black Confederates, appears to have not issued any. Discrimination towards black Confederates was another real problem. For example, in South Carolina white Confederates could apply for old age pensions as early as 1887. Black veterans were denied pensions until 1923. By that time the majority of them were deceased.
One of the best resources about Black Confederates is the book, “Forgotten Confederates: An Anthology about Black Southerners”, by Charles Kelly Barrow, J. H. Segars and R.B. Rosenburg. Not only packed full of very good historical accounts, it lists the names of hundreds of black Confederate veterans who received pensions for their service. While it is far from being comprehensive, it is the best resource available to date.

3. Classification: One must understand what is meant by the term, “black Confederate”. Most black Confederate were NOT what one would considered as a “soldier” in the nineteenth century sense of the word. There was and still remains today an old bigoted argument that this “old boy was not a soldier but a slave” ? Well this is the same mindset that opposed compensation for black Confederates back in 1923. To be truthful and nondiscriminatory we must look either at their counterpart in the Union army or in today’s modern army. Did U.S. servicemen ever serve as stable assistants, aides to Commissioned officers, cooks, teamsters, ect ? They certainly did. Plus many eye witness accounts of black Confederates testify that even some in these positions did occasionally carry arms. It would be wrong to claim that the bulk of black Confederates working in factories, repair shops, and hospitals far away from the battlefields, were soldiers even in today’s standard. Most of these would NOT be considered “soldiers” but “employees of the Army”. Nether the less we must be careful not to continuing to inject nineteenth century discriminatory bias on men that in today’s Army would be considered soldiers. If they were serving on the battlefield or immediately behind frontlines of battle performing military service, then we should consider the modern Army equivalent. Unfortunately since we must use muster rolls, and other 1861-1865 era documents, many of these Southern black patriots will be forever unknown and forgotten. We must do the best we can to see that the few were can document are not forgotten.


35 posted on 08/08/2010 10:43:05 PM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: Michael Zak
The first military monument in the US Capitol that honors an African-American soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington National cemetery. The monument was designed 1914 by Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish Confederate. Who wanted to correctly portray the “racial makeup” in the Confederate Army. A black Confederate soldier is depicted marching in step with white Confederate soldiers. Also shown is one “white soldier giving his child to a black woman for protection”.- source: Edward Smith, African American professor at the American University, Washington DC.

Patriots.

Patriots.


36 posted on 08/08/2010 10:49:45 PM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: Michael Zak

“Blacks in the rebel army were expressly forbidden by Confederate law until 1865.”

Dr. Steiner, Chief Inspector of the United States Sanitary Commission, observed that Gen. “Stonewall” Jackson’s troops in occupation of Frederick, Maryland, in 1862: “Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number [Confederate troops]. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured United States uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, State buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in the rebel ranks. Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc.....and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederate Army.”

If we assume Dr. Steiner is somewhat reliable and assume that this 3,000 Negroes of Jackson’s troops are a representative number of black Confederates in a typical Confederate fighting force, then we may be able to make a rough calculation. First we must determine how many men were part of Jackson’s troops ? If Lee had 50,000, was Jackson’s force, 25,000 ? That would be a likely estimate. So then what percentage is 3,000 of 25,000 ? Answer: 12 %. So that would tell us that 12% of Jackson’s force was black Confederates. Now, if we assume that Steiner meant 3,000 blacks soldiers in Lee’s entire 50,000 force that crossed the Potomac, then the percentage of black Confederates is reduced to 6%. Either way it is calculated, black Confederates were a considerable percentage of the total Confederate fighting force.

To extend this reasoning across the entire Confederate Army, what does this represent ? That depends on the total number of men that served in the CS Army, which is also in itself debatable as muster rolls are notoriously incomplete.

For example, let’s use for example the 1,000,000 listed names in Broadfoot’s Confederate roster compiled by the National Archives. Yes, there is some repeat names, but let’s use that figure as an example. What percentage is 12% ? This would translate to 120,000 black Confederates and half that, 60,000. As such, the 65,000 estimate is not an unreasonable estimate. Debatable ? Yes. Refutable ? Absolutely not. Black Confederates imaginary ? Ridiculous

Could Dr. Steiner have been wrong regarding the numbers ? Yes, absolutely. In fact, many Army officers routinely made mistakes at estimating the enemies numerical strengths. However, the smaller the body of troops one is estimating, the more likely that number is correct. While Steiner failed to accurately estimate Lee’s total forces (I recall he estimated 80,000 instead of 50,000), in my opinion, it is unlikely he erred as significantly with a handful of 3,000 black troops. So even if Steiner made an overestimate of 30%, we still are in the range of 40,000 to 80,000.


37 posted on 08/08/2010 10:52:18 PM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: Michael Zak

Here’s a good historical reference for ya, ZAK;

“The first law of the historian is that he shall never dare utter an untruth. The second is that he shall suppress nothing that is true. Moreover, there shall be no suspicion of partiality in his writing, or of malice.” - Cicero (106-43 B.C.)

More to fo;;ow;

At the Battle of the Crater the USCT were used as cannon fodder and when they retreated under severe fire they were killed by the Union soldiers who had waited for them to absorb the brunt of casualies:

Regarding the Battle of the Crater, depicted in the film Cold Mountain, “George L. Kilmer, an officer of the Fourteenth New York Heavy Artillery, went into the crater with the first wave and reported afterward that when the USCT moved forward to charge the fort, some of white soldiers refused to follow them. Pandemonium broke out when the black soldiers could not continue the assault and started to retreat and come back into the crater. ‘Some colored men came into the crater and there they found a fate worse than death in the charge . . . It has been positively asserted, that white men [Union] bayoneted blacks who fell back into the crater.’” - “The Sable Arm.” Dudley T. Cornish, New York: Longman, Green & Co., 1956, p 274

This was not unusual treatment of USCT by the Union Army: [Reporting on the assault on Battery Wagner] “Sergeant George E. Stephens of Company B described the scene to Captain Emilio: ‘Just at the very hottest moment of the struggle, a battalion or regiment charged up to the moat, halted, and did not attempt to join us, but from their position commenced to fire upon us. I was one of the men who shouted from where I stood, ‘Don’t fire on us. We are the Fifty-fourth.’ I have heard it was a MaineRegiment .’” - “A Brave Black Regiment: History of the Fifty-Fourth Regiment of Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry,” Luis F. Emilio, Boston: Boston Book Company, 1894; Reprint, Salem: Ayer Company Publishers, Inc., 1990., 93

“...As usual with the enemy, they posted their negro regiments on their left and in front, where they were slain by hundreds, and upon retiring left their dead and wounded negroes uncared for, carrying off only the whites, which accounts for the fact that upon the first part of the battle-field nearly all the dead found were negroes.” - Federal Official Records, Vol. XXV, Chapter XLVII, pg. 341 -report of the Confederate Commander, Savannah, April 27, 1864 - Battle of Ocean Pond (Olustee)

The role of Black Southerners as slaves and as soldiers was also underplayed “The part of Adams’ Brigade that the 42nd Indiana was facing were the ‘Louisiana Tigers.’ This name was given to Colonel Gibson’s 13th Louisiana Infantry, which included five companies of ‘Avegno Zouaves’ who still were wearing their once dashing traditional blue jackets, red caps and red baggy trousers. These five Zouaves companies were made up of Irish, Dutch, Negroes, Spaniards, Mexicans, and Italians.” - Noe, Kenneth W., Perryville: This Grand Havoc of Battle. The University of Kentucky Press, Lexington, KY, 2001. (page 270)

Frederick Douglass, Douglass’ Monthly, IV (Sept. 1861), pp 516 - “& there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate Army&as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government...There were such soldiers at Manassas and they are probably there still.”

From James G. Bates’ letter to his father reprinted in the 1 May 1863 “Winchester [Indiana] Journal” (the 13th IVI [”Hoosier Regiment”] was involved in operations around the Suffolk, Virginia area in April-May 1863 ) - “I can assure you [Father], of a certainty, that the rebels have negro soldiers in their army. One of their best sharp shooters, and the boldest of them all here is a negro. He dug himself a rifle pit last night [16 April 1863] just across the river and has been annoying our pickets opposite him very much to-day. You can see him plain enough with the naked eye, occasionally, to make sure that he is a “wooly-head,” and with a spy-glass there is no mistaking him.”

After the action at Missionary Ridge, Commissary Sergeant William F. Ruby forwarded a casualty list written in camp at Ringgold, Georgia about 29 November 1863, to William S. Lingle for publication. Ruby’s letter was partially reprinted in the Lafayette Daily Courier for 8 December 1863: “Ruby says among the rebel dead on the [Missionary] Ridge he saw a number of negroes in the Confederate uniform.”

“Negroes in the Confederate Army,” Journal of Negro History, Charles Wesle, Vol. 4, #3, (1919), 244-245 - “Seventy free blacks enlisted in the Confederate Army in Lynchburg, Virginia. Sixteen companies of free men of color marched through Augusta, Georgia on their way to fight in Virginia.” -

Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805: “There were also quite a number of negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day.”

Federal Official Records Series 1, Volume 15, Part 1, Pages 137-138: “Pickets were thrown out that night, and Captain Hennessy, Company E, of the Ninth Connecticut, having been sent out with his company, captured a colored rebel scout, well mounted, who had been sent out to watch our movements.”

Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol. XLIX, Part II, pg. 253 - April 6, 1865: “The rebels [Forrest] are recruiting negro troops at Enterprise, Miss., and the negroes are all enrolled in the State.” -

The 85th Indiana Volunteer Infantry reported to the Indianapolis Daily Evening Gazette that on 5 March 1863: “During the fight the [artillery] battery in charge of the 85th Indiana [Volunteer Infantry] was attacked by [*in italics*] two rebel negro regiments.[*end italics*].”

I agree with Mr. Dellums. Let us demand accurate portrayal of history with all its warts and boils from all aspects. We would love to see Mr. Dellums in the role of one of the many documented Black Confederate combat soldiers.

We simply ask that all act upon the facts of history.(by Michael Kelley, CSA Commanding, 37th Texas Cavalry (Terrell’s)http://www.37thtexas.org “We are a band of brothers!”)


38 posted on 08/08/2010 10:59:59 PM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: southernsunshine; Michael Zak; DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis; manc; Idabilly; cowboyway; ...
Manc, IDB, CB, VA, JDN - Seems like Mr. Zak isn't content to just bash the South. Seems he also wants to discredit men of color who served with honor for the confederacy. Shall we give him a history lesson? They seem to want to drop the subject when we provide proof.

I just posted a few things for our revisionist friend to chew on.

I believe he will find the references, documents and pictures to be authentic and well sourced.

Good night all.

39 posted on 08/08/2010 11:09:23 PM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: Michael Zak

“Blacks in the rebel army were expressly forbidden by Confederate law until 1865. Sometimes, rebel officers dressed their manservant slaves in Confederate uniforms to have their pictures taken together, hence the photos that ecist today.”

You wrote a BOOK on this subject? Either you are a fool or a damned liar ... of course, both simultaneously is possible ... but you know better ... your contempt for the bravery of these men is despicable.

1. The “Richmond Howitzers” were partially manned by black militiamen. They saw action at 1st Manassas (or 1st Battle of Bull Run) where they operated battery no. 2. In addition two black “regiments”, one free and one slave, participated in the battle on behalf of the South. “Many colored people were killed in the action”, recorded John Parker, a former slave.

2. At least one Black Confederate was a non-commissioned officer in Co. D 35th Texas Cavalry, Confederate States Army, James Washington, became it’s 3rd Sergeant. Higher ranking black commissioned officers served in militia units, but this was on the State militia level (Louisiana)and not in the regular C.S. Army.

3. Free black musicians, cooks, soldiers and teamsters earned the same pay as white confederate privates. This was not the case in the Union army where blacks did not receive equal pay. At the Confederate Buffalo Forge in Rockbridge County, Virginia, skilled black workers “earned on average three times the wages of white Confederate soldiers and more than most Confederate army officers ($350- $600 a year).

4. Dr. Lewis Steiner, Chief Inspector of the United States Sanitary Commission while observing Gen. “Stonewall” Jackson’s occupation of Frederick, Maryland, in 1862: “Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number [Confederate troops]. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured United States uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, State buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in the rebel ranks. Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc.....and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederate Army.”

5. Frederick Douglas reported, “There are at the present moment many Colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but real soldiers, having musket on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down any loyal troops and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government and build up that of the rebels.”

6. Black and white militiamen returned heavy fire on Union troops at the Battle of Griswoldsville (near Macon, GA). Approximately 600 boys and elderly men were killed in this skirmish.

7. In 1864, President Jefferson Davis approved a plan that proposed the emancipation of slaves, in return for the official recognition of the Confederacy by Britain and France. France showed interest but Britain refused.

8. The Jackson Battalion included two companies of black soldiers. They saw combat at Petersburg under Col. Shipp. “My men acted with utmost promptness and goodwill...Allow me to state sir that they behaved in an extraordinary acceptable manner.”

9. Recently the National Park Service, with a recent discovery, recognized that blacks were asked to help defend the city of Petersburg, Virginia and were offered their freedom if they did so. Regardless of their official classification, black Americans performed support functions that in today’s army many would be classified as official military service. The successes of white Confederate troops in battle, could only have been achieved with the support these loyal black Southerners.

10. Confederate General John B. Gordon (Army of Northern Virginia) reported that all of his troops were in favor of Colored troops and that it’s adoption would have “greatly encouraged the army”. Gen. Lee was anxious to receive regiments of black soldiers. The Richmond Sentinel reported on 24 Mar 1864, “None will deny that our servants are more worthy of respect than the motley hordes which come against us.” “Bad faith [to black Confederates] must be avoided as an indelible dishonor.”

11. In March 1865, Judah P. Benjamin, Confederate Secretary Of State, promised freedom for blacks who served from the State of Virginia. Authority for this was finally received from the State of Virginia and on April 1st 1865, $100 bounties were offered to black soldiers. Benjamin exclaimed, “Let us say to every Negro who wants to go into the ranks, go and fight, and you are free Fight for your masters and you shall have your freedom.” Confederate Officers were ordered to treat them humanely and protect them from “injustice and oppression”.

12. A quota was set for 300,000 black soldiers for the Confederate States Colored Troops. 83% of Richmond’s male slave population volunteered for duty. A special ball was held in Richmond to raise money for uniforms for these men. Before Richmond fell, black Confederates in gray uniforms drilled in the streets. Due to the war ending, it is believed only companies or squads of these troops ever saw any action. Many more black soldiers fought for the North, but that difference was simply a difference because the North instituted this progressive policy more sooner than the more conservative South. Black soldiers from both sides received discrimination from whites who opposed the concept .

13. Union General U.S. Grant in Feb 1865, ordered the capture of “all the Negro men before the enemy can put them in their ranks.” Frederick Douglass warned Lincoln that unless slaves were guaranteed freedom (those in Union controlled areas were still slaves) and land bounties, “they would take up arms for the rebels”.

14. On April 4, 1865 (Amelia County, VA), a Confederate supply train was exclusively manned and guarded by black Infantry. When attacked by Federal Cavalry, they stood their ground and fought off the charge, but on the second charge they were overwhelmed. These soldiers are believed to be from “Major Turner’s” Confederate command.

15. A Black Confederate, George _____, when captured by Federals was bribed to desert to the other side. He defiantly spoke, “Sir, you want me to desert, and I ain’t no deserter. Down South, deserters disgrace their families and I am never going to do that.”

16. Former slave, Horace King, accumulated great wealth as a contractor to the Confederate Navy. He was also an expert engineer and became known as the “Bridge builder of the Confederacy.” One of his bridges was burned in a Yankee raid. His home was pillaged by Union troops, as his wife pleaded for mercy.

17. As of Feb. 1865 1,150 black seamen served in the Confederate Navy. One of these was among the last Confederates to surrender, aboard the CSS Shenandoah, six months after the war ended. This surrender took place in England.

18. Nearly 180,000 Black Southerners, from Virginia alone, provided logistical support for the Confederate military. Many were highly skilled workers. These included a wide range of jobs: nurses, military engineers, teamsters, ordnance department workers, brakemen, firemen, harness makers, blacksmiths, wagonmakers, boatmen, mechanics, wheelwrights, etc. In the 1920’S Confederate pensions were finally allowed to some of those workers that were still living. Many thousands more served in other Confederate States.

19. During the early 1900’s, many members of the United Confederate Veterans (UCV) advocated awarding former slaves rural acreage and a home. There was hope that justice could be given those slaves that were once promised “forty acres and a mule” but never received any. In the 1913 Confederate Veteran magazine published by the UCV, it was printed that this plan “If not Democratic, it is [the] Confederate” thing to do. There was much gratitude toward former slaves, which “thousands were loyal, to the last degree”, now living with total poverty of the big cities. Unfortunately, their proposal fell on deaf ears on Capitol Hill.

20. During the 50th Anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg in 1913, arrangements were made for a joint reunion of Union and Confederate veterans. The commission in charge of the event made sure they had enough accommodations for the black Union veterans, but were completely surprised when unexpected black Confederates arrived. The white Confederates immediately welcomed their old comrades, gave them one of their tents, and “saw to their every need”. Nearly every Confederate reunion including those blacks that served with them, wearing the gray.

21. The first military monument in the US Capitol that honors an African-American soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington National cemetery. The monument was designed 1914 by Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish Confederate. Who wanted to correctly portray the “racial makeup” in the Confederate Army. A black Confederate soldier is depicted marching in step with white Confederate soldiers. Also shown is one “white soldier giving his child to a black woman for protection”.- source: Edward Smith, African American professor at the American University, Washington DC.

22. Black Confederate heritage is beginning to receive the attention it deserves. For instance, Terri Williams, a black journalist for the Suffolk “Virginia Pilot” newspaper, writes: “I’ve had to re-examine my feelings toward the [Confederate] flag started when I read a newspaper article about an elderly black man whose ancestor worked with the Confederate forces. The man spoke with pride about his family member’s contribution to the cause, was photographed with the [Confederate] flag draped over his lap that’s why I now have no definite stand on just what the flag symbolizes, because it no longer is their history, or my history, but our history.”

Resources:

Charles Kelly Barrow, et.al. Forgotten Confederates: An Anthology About Black Southerners (1995). Currently the best book on the subject.

Ervin L. Jordan, Jr. Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia (1995). Well researched and very good source of information on Black Confederates, but has a strong Union bias.

Richard Rollins. Black Southerners in Gray (1994). Excellent source.

Dr. Edward Smith and Nelson Winbush, “Black Southern Heritage”. An excellent educational video. Mr. Winbush is a descendent of a Black Confederate and a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV).

This fact page is not an all inclusive list of Black Confederates, only a small sampling of accounts. For general historical information on Black Confederates, contact Dr. Edward Smith, American University, 4400 Massachusetts Ave., N.W., Washington, DC 20016; Dean of American Studies. Dr. Smith is a black professor dedicated to clarifying the historical role of African Americans.


40 posted on 08/08/2010 11:20:25 PM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: jessduntno

bttt


41 posted on 08/08/2010 11:34:37 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: jessduntno; Michael Zak
JDN - I just posted a few things for our revisionist friend to chew on

Excellent sources:)

MZ - I’ll take it from your response that you cannot find CSA army listing of African-Amercan troops. Free blacks were also banned until March 1865

MZ - It appears you don't understand the hint I provided you. It also appears that you don't know to look for individual service records. That means CSA soldiers would be in integrated troops. I'll be waiting for you to post the U.S. troop list for a NON-SEGREGATED unit.

Also, as I mentioned, Tennessee authorized free men of color in 1861. These men saw service w/the CSA. You see, not every state wanted to hand over their militia to federal authority however, their units did serve w/CSA. It's that states right's issue that I'm not quite sure you comprehend.

Now I'm back to bed, but I'm sure when I log on tomorrow you'll have posted the non-segregated Union troops roster. Why, I'll bet you'll have even mastered the little hint thingy too.

42 posted on 08/09/2010 12:10:51 AM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: southernsunshine
Somebody should have told Howell Cobb about all those black Confederates because he wrote in Jan. 1865 that:

"...the moment you resort to negro soldiers your white soldiers will be lost to you."

Than again, that might have been the reason that so many thousands of reb soldiers deserted. :)

43 posted on 08/09/2010 3:32:19 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: jessduntno; southernsunshine; Michael Zak; DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis; manc; cowboyway; ...
Behind The Dixie Stars

7 minute Documentary featuring Nelson W. Winbush, a black son of confederate black soldier Luis Napoleon Nelson who fought under Nathan Bedford Forest, founder of the KKK. A series of interviews, documentation, stock footage, and reenactments all collaberate to help defend the Confederacy and it's soldiers against it's notorious reputation in regards to black slavery and what the confederate flag actually stood for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF-QIJyLhKQ&feature=related

44 posted on 08/09/2010 6:34:39 AM PDT by Idabilly ("When injustice becomes law....Resistance becomes DUTY !")
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To: jessduntno

Excellent stuff! I also heard that the first Union officer killed in the war (at the battle of Big Bethel, which took place near where I live) was killed by a black Confederate sharpshooter.


45 posted on 08/09/2010 7:13:51 AM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: Colonel Kangaroo; southernsunshine; Michael Zak; DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis; manc; cowboyway; ...

“Than again, that might have been the reason that so many thousands of reb soldiers deserted.:) “

Typical bigoted Yankee projection ... thank God there aren’t that many of you left ... nothing to contribute but crude and insulting jokes about brave men ...

During the American Revolution, African Americans fought for the colonies, even the bigoted Yankees and Northern slavers that brought them here, though the British offered them freedom if they fought for them.

Black Confederates? Why haven’t we heard more about them? National Park Service historian, Ed Bearrs, stated, “I don’t want to call it a conspiracy to ignore the role of Blacks both above and below the Mason-Dixon line, but it was definitely a tendency that began around 1910”

In other words, the “winners control history.”

Historian, Erwin L. Jordan, Jr., calls it a “cover-up” which started back in 1865. He writes, “During my research, I came across instances where Black men stated they were soldiers, but you can plainly see where ‘soldier’ is crossed out and ‘body servant’ inserted, or ‘teamster’ on pension applications.”

Another black historian, Roland Young, says he is not surprised that blacks fought. He explains that “…some, if not most, Black southerners would support their country” and that by doing so they were “demonstrating it’s possible to hate the system of slavery and love one’s country.”


46 posted on 08/09/2010 8:25:34 AM PDT by jessduntno (I wonder...how will third Manassas turn out?)
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis; southernsunshine; Michael Zak
Nice paper, son.

But don't expect to convince any of the yankee coven on FR regardless of how well you write and cite your work.

The yankee coven collectively plow a crooked course down the narrow River of Denial.

For the most part it's a complete waste of time to debate them because, as you've seen with this noobie, Michael Zak, he's vested in the revisionist history that protects the ‘integrity’ of him and his yankee brethren and the best way for them to continue that is using diversionary tactics, e.g., “Don't look at us! It's those damned racist Southern hicks to blame.”

It's a lib tactic being routinely employed by Ovomit and his crew: “Bush's fault!!”

I spent a little time reading some of Zak's offerings/dribble and the bias against the South is obvious.

One thing the yankee coven can't argue is that if it weren't for the Southern conservatives the yankees would be, at best, living in a European socialist country and, at worst, a communist dictatorship.

47 posted on 08/09/2010 8:54:21 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe)
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To: cowboyway

I agree!


48 posted on 08/09/2010 9:09:44 AM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

because cobb was loved by everyone in the confederacy? lol


49 posted on 08/09/2010 9:11:55 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Idabilly

I met Mr. Winbush and personally thanked him for the research he has shared about his heritage. We discussed his great grandfather’s role in the war and he told me some of the stories passed down in the Winbush family. He tells it like it is and like it was.


50 posted on 08/09/2010 9:16:00 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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