Skip to comments.New York Democrats Want to Tax Other States to Support NY's Lavish Budget
Posted on 08/10/2010 6:01:25 PM PDT by Winged Hussar
Democrats are stupid as shown by Kirsten Gillibrand's "Cap and Trade Could be a Boon to New York," which describes how much money Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase will make from cap and trade legislation. We are now reminding people how Democrats such as Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) voted to enrich the climate parasites at Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan Chase, and the Chicago Climate Exchange at the expense of people who actually work for a living. Steve Israel (D-NY), Nita Lowey (D-NY) and Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) have met Senator Gillibrand's idiocy and raised her with their Tax Equity Act, which would "adjust" Federal income tax rates to correspond with local costs of living. Republicans are even stupider, though, if they fail to exploit these opportunities for all they are worth.
Let's let Israel, Lowey, and Nadler--and the latter two are well known for their dishonesty and lack of character as shown by their involvement with the disgraced Million Mom March in 2000--say in their own words. The fact that these individuals are not only dishonest enough to propose something like this but are also stupid enough to brag about it in the Wall Street Journal is truly amazing, and it reflects on the intelligence of the people who actually voted for them.
(Excerpt) Read more at israpundit.com ...
The 10th is moot.
Ah yes, The Obama Junta’s State of New Pork!
"An infrastructure is already beginning to form, as entities like the New York Stock Exchange, J.P. Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, and the new Green Exchange are developing carbon trading platforms or expanding their environmental trading desks. "
Yet the author claims, falsely, that it "describes how much money Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase will make from cap and trade legislation."
Yet another anti-corporate socialist propaganda promulgated at all costs. And the country, including many on this forum, swallow this garbage lock-stock-and-barrel.
Did’nt Wall St just scam a trillion or so ALREADY out of the Treasury?!!!!
There should be 50 separate nations in this country. Let the liberals have their hellholes while the productive work hard and reap the spoils.
“An infrastructure is already beginning to form, as entities like the New York Stock Exchange, J.P. Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, and the new Green Exchange are developing carbon trading platforms or expanding their environmental trading desks. “
Yet the author claims, falsely, that it “describes how much money Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase will make from cap and trade legislation.”
What do you mean “claims falsely?” You yourself cited the sentence in which Gillibrand talks about how Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase plan to make money from cap and trade hand over fist. They were developing carbon trading desks so, when the Chosen One signed Waxman-Markey, they could begin to line their pockets with commissions and so on on carbon credits.
Re: “Yet another anti-corporate socialist propaganda promulgated at all costs. “
No, I am against corporate welfare for corporate parasites that produce nothing of value (mined, grown, or manufactured goods) for our society while they leech off the productive elements through government mandated fees on carbon emissions. Do YOU want to pay more for gasoline and electricity so Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon can get bigger bonuses this year than they did last year???
Where do you see any information about how much money they will make? The article says that they are putting themselves in a position, developing a platform, to make money. Nobody, including the company, knows how much or whether that will be profitable; it is just a bet for now.
The author blatantly misquoted the article, as I have demonstrated.
Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase set up the trading desks with the expectation that they would make a lot of money. It is true that neither they nor Gillibrand know exactly how much money but, when all you have to do is act as a middleman for a phony commodity like carbon credits, making money is a sure bet.
Why defend them?
Empty talk. To be relevant, you must demonstrate that your general thoughts apply here. They don't. If there is a market, being a market-maker is a job, not welfare. Making markets in this commodity is just like any other --- wheat, gold, or pork bellies.
You only confirm what I said: even people like you, supposedly conservative, spew class warfare and hatred of corporations without understanding what they do.
"that produce nothing of value (mined, grown, or manufactured goods) for our society"
You should consult some basic books on economics before you form an opinion, whether positive or negative. Specifically, you appear to misunderstand the value of services in general and those of market-makers in particular. If you don't see value here, that does not mean that value does not exist.
"while they leech off the productive elements through government mandated fees on carbon emissions."
Now you are getting somewhere. It is the government that creates that market, and that is whom you and I should curse. Once the market is created, however, there is nothing morally wrong with performing service in that market, which is just like other commodity markets.
You may be against a particular road being built in your county. In this case, your problem is with the county managers. But you would not blame workers for building that road, would you? Market-makers are just those workers, and yet you hate them --- with fervor. And what a coincidence: this just what the socialists asked you to do and even put words in your mouth ("parasites," in particular, was actually used a lot by Marx, Lenin, Hitler and Mao). Well, maybe you should think about why your thoughts and words coincide with those of extreme leftists.
"Do YOU want to pay more for gasoline and electricity so Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon can get bigger bonuses this year than they did last year???"
Once again, you repeat here the leftist propaganda. You don't know and don't understand how senior management is paid and what it is paid for. It's Ok; ask questions then. But you don't and instead developed class hatred.
It is also a mistake to claim that gas will be more expensive because of market-makers. Here you don't understand what markets do.
Logic dictates that, when we don't know something, we don't form an opinion --- any opinion, whether positive of negative. Morality (Ten Commandments) dictates that you do not accuse people without being able to justify your accusation. By spewing nonsense and hatred you thus violate both logic and Judeo-Christian morality, which is surprising from a conservative.
Conservatives like you have been won over by the left: when it comes to economics, they have the same views and the same hatred. And that is why we have a commie in the White House. You can't even see communist propaganda when looking at it. You even repeat it yourself. Sad, very sad indeed.
Because they are unjustly accused. I hope you would defend even a robber if he were falsely accused of murder. There is nothing more American than this.
It is really amazing to see a conservative so thoroughly confused in the area of both morality and basic law.
libtard idiocy knows no bounds..... =.=
Steve Israel (D-NY),
I’m so proud to call this zombie idealogue my congressman.... /s
Going Galt is the next big thing. This is my mind on strike!
I see where you are coming from; you think Goldman Sachs et al are simply responding to what the government is doing.
However, Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase put up $1.5 million in bundled contributions to elect Barry, and more money for Harry Reid who was driving cap and trade. The U.S. Climate Action Partnership has agitated for it as well. These guys are NOT innocent; they are part of the cause and are not merely the effect.
From the Kirsten Gillibrand piece; here is where it talks about how much money these (carbon) indulgence peddlers are going to make.
“n this turmoil, it may seem hard to imagine a financial market poised to deliver significant growth. However, a rising number of investors and financiers see one in the trading and reduction of carbon. According to financial experts, carbon permits could quickly become the world’s largest commodities market, growing to as much as $3 trillion by 2020 from just over $100 billion today. With thousands of firms and energy producers buying and selling permits to emit carbon, transaction fees for exchanges and clearing alone could top nearly half a billion dollars. “
Right, like buying and selling indulgences for sins, with the climate parasites (Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan Chase, Chicago Climate Exchange) taking a piece of the action. This was also part of Enron’s and Lehman Brothers’ business plan and, quite frankly, the country is better off without them.
Furthermore, these guys are not merely reacting to what Barry is trying to do. They are part of the cause; they have been lobbying and agitating for climate legislation.
Over 15% of the total cost of ObamaCare will be extracted from NY State. All the schmucks mentioned in this article voted in favor of ObamaCare repeatedly.
NY is about to be abandoned by the superwealthy due to this. On top of that, the entire political structure in NY State is unable to function without the superwealthy, and all those scumbag politicos have truly run out of other peoples’ money to steal.
THe costs and profits in the Cap and Trade bill are definitively established based on national power consumption rates.
The profit will be something close to 0.005 cents per kilowatt.
Cap and Trade is most definitely NOT a market. It is a scam from start to finish designed to remove productive capital from the nation and put that wealth into the hands of a very small number of people who otherwise provide no value to the economy.
The market for surplus tractors in Stalin’s five year plan is the most apt analogy I’ve heard to date.
Once again you refuse to read. The number you quoted is the revenue; the profit is much smaller. It is derived, furthermore, on a considerable investment, hence profit is not necessarily high.
I have a problem with GS management being quite left of center. If they lobbied Congress for this, as you say, this is because of their ideology, not profits. A few tens of millions is a drop in the bucket for GS. More importantly, any other firm -- including you --- that wants to make an investment and become a market-maker is free to do so.
As I said, I dislike immensely the liberalism of GS management. I am appalled at the Cap and Trade. I would therefore agree with you on these aspects of GS. You, however, accuse them of trading, a perfectly legitimate way to make profit for tens of millions of Americans that own GS. And, I am sorry to say, you do so without any visible understanding of what you are talking about.
What exchange is GS going to facilitate, then? "The profit will be something close to 0.005 cents per kilowatt."
When one side is under the threat of a barrel of a gun into a transaction, the results trade is NOT a marketplace trade.
It is compulsory pillaging of the victims real wealth.
As with the half century of protection racket treasury extorted and then final culmination in Visigoths/German Tribes captured and pillaged Rome in 410 under Alaric, the resulting ‘transactions’ between the conquerors and the Roman populace was not a marketplace transaction, when the conquerors murdered tens of thousands to a few hundred thousand Italians during the campaign due to pillaging and burning the crops, this was not a marketplace transaction.
When GE and the CBOE partners pillage the real wealth of the energy suppliers and end-users in North America by threat of IRS paramilitary takeovers of the corporations for failure to comply to ‘laws’ where all parties but the traders lose real wealth in every trade, and where hundreds of thousands of third world peasants will die EVERY year due to the forced conversion of the marginal supply of grains and grain producing cropland into bio-fuel production, it is not a marketplace transaction, it is the pillaging of mankind, and a crime against humanity.
Let's stick with something meaningful and not waste time on nonsense.
You are, in most states, required by law to purchase car insurance. We may discuss whether or not that is a legitimate abridgment of freedom. But it would be ridiculous to claim, as you do, that, since you HAVE to buy insurance, the insurance market is not a market.
I cannot contribute to this discussion any further because you refuse to discuss. Your offer instead an expression of feelings you have about the actors involved (GS, government, etc.), and you do so while misusing standard terminology.
What can I say in response? OK, two things: (i) I understand your feeling, now that I read your posts; and (ii) they are largely ill based, since you do not demonstrate any understanding of the subject matter.
Perhaps we'll have a more productive discussion on some other topic.
Have a good evening.