Posted on 08/12/2010 5:14:58 PM PDT by Nachum
Move over Wall Street traders -- seems there's a new vampire squid in town. Civil servants?
Passage Tuesday of a controversial bill sending billions of dollars to states to shore up payrolls for public school teachers further stoked the debate over whether government employees, their unions and their benefits packages are bankrupting the country.
"[The bill] will make the teachers unions happy, but it won't make teaching in schools better," said Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., at a press conference Tuesday during which he and other Republican leaders criticized legislation earmarking $26 billion in aid for school districts and other state agencies.
As the recession grinds on and states struggle to close budget gaps, a spotlight is shining on the salary and benefits collected by public sector professionals, including teachers, police officers and firefighters. They once commonly were viewed as the salt-of-the-earth backbone of America. But now, they are more often than not being portrayed as a boilerplate around taxpayers' necks.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Fat cats? ...more like 'piggies'.
Ciivl Servants?? Serving who?
“But now, they are more often than not being portrayed as a boilerplate around taxpayers’ necks.”
?????
Boilerplate? Around our necks?
Shouldn’t that be Albatross?
And these idiots get paid to write.
Salary of Iris Salters - head of the Michigan Education Association in 2009:
$239,000.00
All those union dues gotta go somewhere.
Whether or not? It’s for sure.
They serve themselves. We have thrown more money at schools/teachers for 20 years straight here. They are worse then ever now.
They are fat cats especially in the DC area. Most of them make 6 figures, drive highend cars,live in expensive houses, and have benefit plans like you wouldn’t believe. They come in do 2-3 hours of real work and then rush home. Not all are like that but far too many are. The only time I saw anyone fired is when a lady who wanted to work was let sit at her desk doing nothing till she went nutzo and threatened to kill her boss. I don’t miss contracting for the govt. The system is built to encourage all the things outsiders see as failure and those who do push forward are just as likely to get punished or shut out as rewarded.
Because they aren’t servants. Most of them are pigs living our tax dollars. Don’t believe me? have yo been in to see any government agency lately? Horrendous!
People who think ‘fat cats’ should check out the McMansions in their area to see how many cops, firemen and teachers live there. If you find they are loaded with civil servants, then people should find someone to kick their ass for not passing the tests and becoming one of those ‘fat cats’ themselves.
Ya, I flashed on that too. How about "People employed by the government"? They ain't civil, and they sure as hell aren't servants.
On the contrary, it's not an "unlikely role" at all. In fact, it's an inevitable "role" ... when one is allowed to determine one's own compensation, in any job or organization.
The problem is this: in the America of old, the only people who got to determine their own compensation were people who created their own jobs, or were put into jobs for which they were so uniquely suited that there was no alternative. People like that tended to become "fat cats," no doubt about it.
Now we have unionized "civil servants" who did not create their own jobs, who are not (in most cases) "so uniquely suited for their positions that there is no alternative." They're just ordinary schlubs who have gamed the system, with the help of legislators and unions, so that they have considerable influence over their compensation levels without having to earn, to produce, a dime of the money they are paid. Their salaries put the budget in the red? So what? Just appropriate more taxpayer money to cover the gap. There's not a damn thing the people on whom the burden falls can do about it, so keep on jackin' it up! Who wouldn't?
Visit to the Wage & Hours division of the Labor Dept in Montgomery, AL.
Half-a-floor in a rented office building. Vast room full of seventy desks...by count.
It was 11:15 AM. Nobody there, out to lunch.
I decided to wait around, see when our public servants might return.
It was 2:05 PM. And I was accosted for having entered the room (the door wasn't locked). Nor were any hours posted.
I was quite unwelcome in the room. But, being as there was no lobby or ante-room, I stayed put. Nobody seemed to feel it necessary to even play at any work. Lots of chit-chat. Even more were sitting sullenly, staring into the distance. A few napped...
Finally, just before 3 PM, the supervisor returned. Evidently, he was the only one of the crowd that could answer my question.
At long last, finally, an answer to my question about Wage & Hour policy concerning farm labor. "I don't know", he said. "You're on your own."
It was a real eye-opener. And blood-pressure raiser.
Interesting. The headline says “civil servants” while the article only discusses teachers, not bureaucrats, not education management and support personnel, not city managers or agency managers. Once again the vast majority of the fat cats are hiding behind what they push forward as their “most attractive” civil servants.
I live near and like many of my school teacher neighbors (so long as we don’t talk politics). I live near a smidgen of local bureaucrats and some cops and firefighters. It is the state and federal management classes which live in neighborhoods richer than my blood, in remote and gated communities to and from which they navigate their government SUVs. In fact, pensions, while scandalous are just the icing on the cake of taxpayer-paid bennies such as trips, er conferences and junkets, per diem food, gas, housing allowances at the state capital.
Further, many of the bureaucrats (not the teachers) can manipulate their pensions by working extra overtime the last year of fulltime work so as to inflate their final year’s salary measuring rod for pensions.
A final note: my neighbors of eighteen years are both school teachers. The husband used to be a civil engineer until he realized being a teacher was much more lucrative with more leisure time during the holidays and summers. They have both taught now for several years. Their 2200-sf house is nicely furnished; they drive late-model beemers, they get real enjoyment from their backyard swimming pool. We don’t see them much these days because they are spending a lot of their out-of-school time at their vacation home at Lake Tahoe. I don’t begrudge them this. Teaching is hard work. But I have a hard time hearing teachers plead poverty. I recall a study done several years ago that teachers had more family disposable income than any other professional demographic group.
it is a gross conflict of interest for public employees to have unions
Civil Servants needs to be stricken from the modern lexicon. It’s outdated. These are government workers. Servants? Only the military serve me at the federal level.
Time to fire all of them and start over. There needs to be a complete house cleaning of both these crooks can the politicians who feed them.
Pray for America
The only reason (at least federally) they were allowed to unionize was JFK’s Executive Order 10988.
If some future president (perhaps one from Alaska might have that kind of nerve..lol) were to overturn it via Executive Order, I believe the Congress would need a 2/3 vote to negate it.
heh
You just described a day care center. Horrendous.
Good grief. This fat cat has less than 2 years until I retire from the police dept. with 27 years.
I’ve been shot at, have shot at in return, assaulted more times than I care to remember, spit on, shit on (literally), pissed on, pissed off, vomited on, broke bones, 3 duty related surgeries including a very severe knee injury. I could have retired after the knee injury but I came back to work. Been sued at least 3 times, all falsely, gone through FBI and DOJ investigations.
After I retire I get to pay anywhere from 600 to 1000 a month for my benefits, which will be from 60 percent of my base salary.
The socialist security that I earned from other jobs I won’t get, or my pension will be adjusted if I do get it.
And, I will have to get another job after I retire. Working the road is not a job for an old man. I’m now chasing the grandkids of the morons that I arrested when I first joined up.
Yeah, the lap of luxury, that’s where I’ll be. From what I understand only 10% of my retirement comes from ‘the city.’
What is giving us a bad name is the thieves who have gamed the system for years, just like corrupt politicians.
So now, after all that, I’m lumped in with the thieves who are used as examples to paint us all in the same light.
My wife did not work. We raised 5 kids on a PATROLMANS salary. I live in an area of ‘the city’ where I routinely hear gunshots. In broad daylight not long ago a drug dealer cranked off a full magazine of AK47 rounds 2 blocks from my house. He was later suspected of firebombing a narcotics vehicle 4 blocks from my house.
People who have threatened to kill me have walked past my house. I feel like my house is a bunker in enemy territory.
After my severe knee injury I was financially wiped out. I asked nobody for help and received none.
If you want to do away with cops, that’s fine by me. I’ve worked full time since I was 17 years old and have never had a problem getting a job.
I’ve enjoyed helping the people who are decent, hard working people trying to make it. I’ve felt I’ve done the community a service and felt pride in being a part of the community. The part that stands up and tries to be honest, loyal Americans.
I’ve also felt my spirituality deepen after undergoing all the hardships of this job. I feel I’ve picked up and carried my cross after my Saviour Jesus Christ. 3 of my fellow officers committed suicide and about 8 more have died while I have been here.
I know what I’ve done. I believe I’ve earned my pay.
And how does this thread apply to you?
It applys because every one who works for the public sector is lumped in with the crooks and thieves and the OP was an insult to hard working decent people who work at jobs that are funded by tax dollars.
I don’t deny there are “fat cats” and lazy workers and way too many jobs in the public sector that are basically useless, but some of you people are out of control.
I know teachers, fireman, police, VA nurses and doctors, etc that work their butts off. Some of us do see ourselves as “public servants”....and I can assure you that my salary is anything but fat cat.
Next time you have a fire, a break-in, or your veteran relative needs meds....who you gonna call.
Take heart, Cap’n Crunch. Nobody lumps you in with the teacher unions and ‘others’ who are ripping off our country here. Quite the opposite, really. Policemen, and our military take it in the shorts for all the risk they take.
From the article:
“As the recession grinds on and states struggle to close budget gaps, a spotlight is shining on the salary and benefits collected by public sector professionals, including teachers, police officers and firefighters. They once commonly were viewed as the salt-of-the-earth backbone of America. But now, they are more often than not being portrayed as a boilerplate around taxpayers’ necks.”
I’m the Po-Po part of the equation.
Here in North Carolina state workers historically make 50-60% less than private sector personnel in the same jobs.
Also, our medical costs are beginning to climb tremendously with little to show for it, we’ve had NO pay-raises in the last 3 years and we expect to see furloughs for many shortly because of politically motivated budget cuts..
Yeah, we’re sitting fat, dumb and happy at the top of the food chain here doncha know?
You missed out. Teachers do much better in New Jersey and California...
I won’t call you, bozo. How’s that?
Unlikely? Really? Every since I was a pup I knew that "civil" (Used in the same context as "civil" war) "servants" (if they were actually my servants about 90% would be standing in the unemployment line) were mostly people who worked very little and soaked the tax payer for every cent they could get.
And I haven't been a young pup in a while.
That’s not right. You ain’t listed in the complaint. Paying your $1,000 monthly pension would be okay with just about anyone. The complaint is with those who collect a whole lot more.
Oh, om your way home tonight, thank the tree trimmers. That’s a risker job than yours and most never see a company pension. Yet they keep you safe from falling limbs, and get your power restored when a branch falls on them. They work in weather so bad that even dunkin’ donut shops close.
I notice that they used the term “civil servants” to imply that some how the serve US rather than have us serve them.
Thank you. It sure is a kick in the pants to endure all this and in the end to be thought of as a leaching crook.
Oh, that’s another thing. Another misconception. My jobs not risky. Being shot at isn’t risky? Tree trimmers have convicts who’ve threatened to kill them walking past their house for trimming trees?
Ever fight with a man with a gun or knife? Take a knife away from a suicidal whose covered in gasoline, cutting his wrists and holding a lighter? Take a loaded AK47 out of a drug dealers hands? Rolled up on scene with people shooting at each other? Been surrounded in a riot with people yelling “Kill him”? Caught armed bank robbers? Have convicts tell you when they find out where you live they are going to kill you, then your kids, fuck your wife?
I’ve done all that and more. Those are what I can remember off the top of my head. I’m not saying I have the most dangerous job in the world. But I’ve seen my share.
I don’t live or work in Mayberry.
They have jobs and steady jobs. Just like many. There are plenty of needed jobs with high risks that aren’t steady and don’t have taxation backed pensions.
Most firemen are volunteer, for one example. They also take big risks.
That’s your job, you signed up for it. And tree trimmers have a more dangerous one.
The answer to some of your questions is yes, to others no. I’m just a citizen. Those things can and do happen to citizens too.
You ever had to hot-wire an emergency 480V hot circuit in the dark? Ever had some damn fool drop liquid nitrogen down your back? Have a friggin battery explode in your face? Gotten caught in a explosion? Just wondering ...
hahaha. Well, tree trimmers signed up for their jobs too no? Maybe they can come here and take the police test. I’ll need a replacement in another year. They can be nice and safe, won’t have to worry about tree trimming dangers, get a nice fat taxpayer pension and all the donuts one can eat!
You ever take live fire? Ever had someone pull a gun on you? Ever watch a friend gunned down for no reason? Ever have to hold back a mob that could rip you in two and have to hold your fire or lose your job (and be prosecuted for defending yourself)? Ever walk into a domestic dispute where the husband or wife try to shoot or knife you? Ever find a package wondering if it was a bomb, made just for you? Ever have to tell a parent their kid just died?
Just wondering
I would go insane. I don’t care how good the benefits would be, I couldn’t do nothing every day. Sick.
Ever had someone pull a gun on you? Yes
Ever watch a friend gunned down for no reason? No
Ever have to hold back a mob that could rip you in two and have to hold your fire or lose your job (and be prosecuted for defending yourself)? No
Ever walk into a domestic dispute where the husband or wife try to shoot or knife you? No
Ever find a package wondering if it was a bomb, made just for you? No
Ever have to tell a parent their kid just died? No comment
----
Now you answer these:
There are PLENTY of real jobs, or actions a capable citizen takes where live is endangered. WE DON'T YAP LIKE DRAMA QUEENS ABOUT IT AND DEMAND YOU PAY US TO LIVE THIRTY OR FORTY YEARS OR WHATEVER LIKE SOME FEUDAL BARON.
# Have you ever pulled a dead body out of a fire or car wreck?No (thank God)
# Have ever had to wade through a mob of teenagers to break up a fight between two pro-halfbacked size idiots? No, but two of my sons are over 6'2, 220lbs, and almost got killed breaking up a fight between them
# Have you worked in a building when half of it got blown away?No (thank God)
# Have you ever had a half-ton steel door slam on your fingers?No (thank God), but I did have large breaker bar smash my face
# Have you ever some stupid equipment operator nearly take off your head with water main pipe?No, but one almost made be fall from two stories into a vat of sodium cyanide and water
# Have you ever sucked up a pipette of cyanide by mistake? No, but I've been doused by a solution of sodium cyanide and water and watched my hands puff up like balloons later on
There are PLENTY of real jobs, or actions a capable citizen takes where life is endangered. WE DON'T YAP LIKE DRAMA QUEENS ABOUT IT AND DEMAND YOU PAY US TO LIVE THIRTY OR FORTY YEARS OR WHATEVER LIKE SOME FEUDAL BARON.
True enough, but our police and military still deserve our support. They aren't the ones yapping like drama queens.
We way overstate the value of a regular police force and of a regular national military in our era. We a lot more irregular, private, citizen involvement and a lot less pensionated public-financed GI. Truth is that even in those areas private industry does what has to be done better.
Towns with tiny police forces generally are safest. Towns with large police forces unsafe. Why is that?
As a Jewish question: Do shoftim get the first fruit? The pick of the crop? Or the same fruit as the rest of us?
Hooboy, a complicated question. The simple answer? The section or body of law that has to do with 'first fruit' is called 'terumah'. It refers to an amount required to give from the harvest. Before one is allowed to benefit personally, he "first" donates the required amount. That number is debated. Amounts varied from a low of one sixtieth (a poor person) as as much as one fortieth of one's crop. If a rich person gave one sixtieth, he was considered miserly. I believe this is a different issue than the discussion of charity (tzedukah).
This also applies to the first wool sheared. One commentary mentions a minimum of 5 sheep's wool.
One might extrapolate that we also are required to give charity (tzedukah) from this section, but it is, here as I understand it referring only to crops of the field grown as 'terumah' (first fruit), not charity (tzedukah).
I am not a rabbi, so you may want to consult with an authority on this.
N
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.