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Lebanese army kills top Islamist after three-year hunt
Yahoo /AFP ^ | Sat Aug 14, 2010 | Rana Moussaoui Rana Moussaoui

Posted on 08/14/2010 7:22:12 PM PDT by rdl6989

BEIRUT (AFP) – Lebanese troops on Saturday killed two Islamist militants including a head of an Al-Qaeda-inspired group which fought a battle with the army in 2007 that cost hundreds of lives, a military spokesman said.

"Abdel Rahman Awad, one of the key leaders of Fatah al-Islam," was killed along with another militant known as Abu Bakr during clashes in the eastern Bekaa Valley region, the spokesman told AFP.

A judicial source said Abu Bakr was Awad's key deputy who provided military training to members of Fatah al-Islam, a shadowy group said to be inspired by Al-Qaeda.

In 2007, Fatah al-Islam fought a fierce battle against the army at Nahr al-Bared refugee camp in northern Lebanon that raged for more than three months and cost 400 lives, with 168 soldiers among the dead.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2007; abdel; abdelrahmanawad; abubakr; alqaeda; alqaida; awad; dead; fatahalislam; gwot; islamist; lebanesearmy; lebanon; muslims; nahralbared; rahman

1 posted on 08/14/2010 7:22:14 PM PDT by rdl6989
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To: rdl6989

Glad to hear this.


2 posted on 08/14/2010 7:28:08 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Cindy; SunkenCiv

Ping.


3 posted on 08/14/2010 7:31:28 PM PDT by rdl6989 (January 20, 2013- The end of an error.)
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To: rdl6989

Why is he called an Islamist? It’s the religion of peace, doncha know?


4 posted on 08/14/2010 7:45:41 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Democrats = authoritarian socialists)
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To: rdl6989

Abdel Rahman Awad shouting slogans

(AFP/File/Mahmoud Zayat)

Someone shot Awad.

5 posted on 08/14/2010 7:51:01 PM PDT by csvset
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To: rdl6989

Wait a minute, let me sort this out. The Lebanese Army fought radical Islamicists and PALESTINIANS in a Palestinian Refugee camp and killed hundreds in 2007.

There was no UN, no UNWRA, no International sanctions, no Red Cross, no Red Crescent,no board of inquiry, no condemnations, no critique whatsoever from the world.
They are fighting terror yet, the support the Hizbollah party/militia in southern Lebanon against Israel on the OTHER side of the border.

The Obama administration wants to arm the Lebanese army to fight terror yet the terror elements reside WITHIN the Lebanese government. So...where exactly do the Lebanese stand? One foot supporting terror and the other fighting it?

Two weeks ago, the Lebanese army ambushed an Israeli patrol pruning trees at an agreed upon place and time (in coordination with UNFIL) INSIDE Israeli territory. They killed an Israeli Lt. Col. and wounded a Captain.

It’s simple, the Hizbollah/Iran/Syria have infiltrated the Lebanese army so why are they pursuing mastermind terrorists???


6 posted on 08/14/2010 11:02:05 PM PDT by Netz
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To: rdl6989

Thank you for the ping rdl6989


7 posted on 08/15/2010 12:46:23 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: rdl6989; AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; blueyon; Convert from ECUSA; ...
Lebanese troops on Saturday killed two Islamist militants including a head of an Al-Qaeda-inspired group which fought a battle with the army in 2007 that cost hundreds of lives, a military spokesman said. "Abdel Rahman Awad, one of the key leaders of Fatah al-Islam," was killed along with another militant known as Abu Bakr during clashes in the eastern Bekaa Valley region, the spokesman told AFP. A judicial source said Abu Bakr was Awad's key deputy who provided military training to members of Fatah al-Islam, a shadowy group said to be inspired by Al-Qaeda. In 2007, Fatah al-Islam fought a fierce battle against the army at Nahr al-Bared refugee camp in northern Lebanon that raged for more than three months and cost 400 lives, with 168 soldiers among the dead.
You know that old saw, "the enemy of your enemy is your friend"? Well, it just isn't so. The Iranian/Shiites run Lebanon. :') Thanks rdl6989.
8 posted on 08/15/2010 6:18:43 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: csvset

LOL!


9 posted on 08/15/2010 6:19:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Netz

/bingo


10 posted on 08/15/2010 6:19:35 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

The US is supporting the somewhat West-leaning, Axis-of-evil leaning Lebanese who do not have their act together at all. Syria, Iran, Hizbollah call the shots there today and it is just a matter of time before they stage a coup d’etat in Lebanon. They are seriously teetering on the precipice of disaster, Iran/Syria/Hizbollah/HAMAS and now, unfortunately, Turkey are all closing in on Israel while President Obama fiddles away!

The US supported (and still amazingly supports) the Palestinian Authority (PA), (read, FATAH terrorists) against the HAMAS terrorists. The US, Europe and Scandanavia poured billions of $$ in humanitarian and military aid to Arafat’s PA and then they (after pilfering off billions of dollars to their Swiss bank accounts) turned thier guns on the Israelis, who thought they had a peace deal with the Arabs (Oslo), so, indirectly the US helped the “moderate” (FATAH terrorists), come to power, hold it, destroy the peace, have FATAH fall from power in a HAMAS Gaza coup and they (the US) STILL THINK ABBAS, SAEB EREKAT,and the old PLO vanguard want peace??? How long will the US cling to a phantom concept? How long will the US arm her enemies in the name of “Peace” and how long will the US support the losing side????


11 posted on 08/15/2010 8:35:07 AM PDT by Netz
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To: csvset

“I should have used Preparation H.”

12 posted on 08/15/2010 8:41:21 AM PDT by RichInOC ("In the name of Allah, The Inexorable, The Irresistible...")
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To: Netz

This will go on until we have our enemies out of the White House, out of Congress, and off the bench of the SCOTUS and all other courts.


13 posted on 08/15/2010 9:37:15 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Netz

There is a big difference between sunni extremism, and shiite. Sunnis are the people that every american president since i can recall have been blowing(and i dont mean blowing up) once they get into office. On personal experience, these people, specifically wahhabists in saudi, are the people that need to be reigned in. Shiites throughout history have never been extreme. Depending on your definition of terrorism, I dont think you can objectively classify as terrorists(hezbollah i mean). Yes they blew up the american barracks in the lebanese civil war, and a suicide bomber was used for that attack, but are you telling me would it have been classified as non terrorist had they lobbed a rocket into the building instead? The word has been thrown about alot since 9/11, where every fight now has a terrorist and a good guy. Its kind of ridiculous. Hezbollahs conflicts with israel, are legitamate, israel keep violating lebanese sovereignty, they still occupy about 5km2 of lebanese land, these are all legitamate reasons why a conflict may occur. The lebanese army is not the same as hezbollah.
What i am not understanding, are you expecting lebanese to cheer for israel when they destroy their country? Are you serious? Honestly, if hezbollah was christian there would be no claim of them being terrorists, this is certain. Im not defending islam or hezbollah here, but i call a spade a spade. In fact I hate hezbollah, but i recognize their fight, i dont need to be so blind when i make observations.

The army which had that skirmish with the israeli soldiers on the border, that was clearly a misunderstanding, i am sure that lebanese soldiers dont go around and look for israelis to kill on the border, infact the border lines are very dodgy over there. Seeing at it was the bloodiest piece of violence over that border in the past 4 years, its not much, like another night in new york.

I dont mean to be insulting, but alot of people are showing alot of ignorance, and maybe indifference to the situation there. Many because their evangelical blindness wants all jews to go to israel so they can convert or die, and the end of the world will come. Which is just as looney as extremist islam. There is a severe inability to comment with objectivity on these boards on topics regarding israel, infact i can get more objectivity from my israeli friends than i can from people here. Its always, oh israel, i support them, i dont need to know what they did but i support them. Theyre fighting people who are muslim? terrorist bastards!

As you asked, where do lebanese stand? They support their country and they hate anyone who wants to destabilize it, which is exactly as any person in any country in the world feels. It just so happens, that in recent times hezbollah has defended lebanese rights moreso than any syrian puppet in lebanon has. I say syrian puppet, because all the people the US supports in lebanon were syrian collaborators who stole billions of dollars from the pockets of the lebanese people, who beat the lebanese people, who jailed the lebanese people. You can equate them to the vichy french in world war II, and they should be put to death like any nazi collaborator in that war. Im christian maronite, of lebanese origin. There are more lebanese christians in the US than in lebanon, unfortunately..
I ranted alot there, but its a complicated situation, but as much as i hate hezbollah, i cant objectively call them terrorist, just for the sake of it. Their actions in the 2006 war, showed clearly that they arent targetting civilians, infact as a ratio israel killed more civilians than hezbollah did, i dont know what defines terrorism but there must be some kind of standard. Terrorism is probably the most subjective word in the dictionary, and maybe i think objectively about this situation because im not evangelical and i dont believe in armageddon or wanting all jews to die or get converted or whatever mumbo jumbo theyve convinced themselves of. Infact, when you break it down their “support” is kind of against the interest and safety of israel, as they will technically never want peace, which should it not come will ultimately end in disaster for both sides.


14 posted on 08/20/2010 9:26:50 PM PDT by hannibaal
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To: hannibaal
Excuse me but your statements are so contradictory that it is difficult to not only understand where the Lebanese stand but where you stand as well. Let me make my case. People like you tend to blur the issues either intentionally or it means you do not have a grasp of the reality on the ground:

By the way, concerning your entire statement, there is no relative correctness where one man's terrorist is another man's patriot. There ARE just people in this conflict just as there are evil forces - it does not just depend on which side of the fence you sit. Events have happened in history and there is a clear delineation between good and bad.

Judging by your statements you are probably a Lebanese person who wants ALL FOREIGNERS OUT OF LEBANON and that's fine until you begin making claims like (and I am quoting you here):

>>> Your statements
> My responses

>>>Shiites throughout history have never been extreme.

> From what I have read and seen, Shiites kill Sunnis and Sunnis kill Shiites now and 500 years ago. Sometimes they unite to kill Jews or Christians, then they are really united! Both seem extreme and determined to kill the other (and those who disagree with Islam). Islam is at war with itself (Shiite vs. Sunni) and with the rest of the world. Just look at the two possible states in this world as seen by Islam:

Dar Al-Hareb (in a state of permanent war until the entire world is converted (by force if necessary) to Islam.
Dar Al-Islam (Islamic world dominance, world at peace (good joke) now that everyone is Islamic.

Look at the facts all over the Islamic world. The differences between the two is a political one, The Shia Muslims believe that following the Prophet Muhammad's death, leadership should have passed directly to his cousin/son-in-law, Ali.Ever since then it been a mess.

>>>>> Depending on your definition of terrorism, I don't think you can objectively classify as terrorists(Hezbollah i mean).

Most Western countries classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organization (fact) or army who have killed or terrorized many of those who oppose them, you know this well I am sure. Hezbollah serves south Lebanon interests by providing many governmental services that the government in Beirut cannot. That includes health and social services but along with those good things comes religious indoctrination, hatred of Israel and surface to surface rockets (aimed at Israel) hiding behind human shields, mosques and schools. YOU KNOW THIS TOO! You also know that Hezbollah is assisted by Iran and Syria and it is just a matter of time before they stage a coup d’etat in Lebanon...this you know too!

>>> The word (terrorism) has been thrown about alot since 9/11, where every fight now has a terrorist and a good guy. Its kind of ridiculous.

>Terrorism has a specific meaning which you are trying to blur and it is not a term “thrown around alot since 9/11” but has been in use for a very long time. The Prince of Terror was Yassir Arafat himself with his Fedayun raiders in the 1950’s till his PLO Al_fatah movement. Again, we see the word terror associated with Muslims albeit they were Socialist or Communists. There are good guys and bad guys, life is not all relative - there are clear terms as to who is good and who is bad.

>>>Hezbollah's conflicts with Israel, are legitimate, Israel keep violating Lebanese sovereignty, they still occupy about 5km2 of Lebanese land, these are all legitimate reasons why a conflict may occur. The Lebanese army is not the same as Hezbollah.

>Hizbollah has a conflict with Israel, Israel does not have a conflict with Hizbollah but when they infiltrate Israel, launch missiles from sovereign Lebanese territory at Israeli cities ON PURPOSE, hoping to kill any civilian then...who is a terrorist? Israel sits inside of Israel so where is the conflict? Israel withdrew from Lebanon, Hizbollah must keep up the “resistance” in order to justify their 80,000 missiles aimed at Israeli cities. Who violates Lebanese soverignty if not Hizbollah, Syria and Iran? Be honest, you know that the Lebanese government is weak and that Hizbollah killed Prime Minister Harari...you know that a coup d’etat in Lebanon is just a matter of time.

>>>What i am not understanding, are you expecting lebanese to cheer for israel when they destroy their country? Are you serious? Honestly, if hezbollah was christian there would be no claim of them being terrorists, this is certain.

> Nobody expects the Lebanese to cheer Israeli RETALIATORY strikes on Lebanese land but then again, where are the true Lebanese patriots when the Hizbollah is using their houses in Beirut (”Dahania” neighborhood) as their HQ?

Where are the loyal Lebanese when the Lebanese army killed hundreds of Palestinians (Fatah al-Islam )at the the Nahr-el-Bared Palestinian refugee camp in 2007? Where are the caring Lebanese when they cannot exert influence over the south of the country? Lebanon has lost control of it's south - and you know this too.

>>>I'm not defending Islam or Hezbollah here, but i call a spade a spade. In fact I hate hezbollah, but i recognize their fight, i don't need to be so blind when i make observations.

> Let me show you your own contradictory statements once again:
>>>Depending on your definition of terrorism, I dont think you can objectively classify as terrorists(hezbollah i mean).
> You're not defending Hizbollah???????????????? “I recognize their fight”???

>>>The army which had that skirmish with the Israeli soldiers on the border, that was clearly a misunderstanding, i am sure that Lebanese soldiers dont go around and look for Israelis to kill on the border, in fact the border lines are very dodgy over there.

>I believe that the Hizbollah now wears Lebanese army uniforms and it was not just a skirmish. The Israeli Army arranged for this operation in advance and was fired upon, actually sniped at by pre-postioned marksmen. Yes, a skirmish followed but it was the Lebanese who opened fire on a tree pruning crew killing a Lt. Col. and wounding a Captain...pretty good shooting in my book...officers only?

>>>I don't mean to be insulting, but alot of people are showing alot of ignorance, and maybe indifference to the situation there. Many because their evangelical blindness wants all Jews to go to Israel so they can convert or die, and the end of the world will come.

>You're blaming Islamic terror and support of Israel because of “Evangelicals”???? Have you ever thought about the fact that one of Islam's main FAULTS is that it never, ever, ever is intellectually honest and maybe shares some of the responsibility for war & terror in the world today? They ALWAYS blame somebody else for their woes. They deny and culpability for ANYTHING. Now it's the Christians fault??? This is typical of backwards thinking - always blame the infidel. Extremism is bad for any faith but why have the Jews & Christians “grown up” as it were? We all know that we are no longer living as Barbarians in the 7th Century - but tell that to Islamic fundamentalists, not evangelical Christians.

As a Maronite have you forgotten PLO (Islamic) atrocities in Damour, Tyre, Sidon in 1976-1982)? Islam swallowed Christianity in Lebanon. How can you support those that will kill you??? I do not understand.

>>>As you asked, where do Lebanese stand? They support their country and they hate anyone who wants to destabilize it, which is exactly as any person in any country in the world feels

> So why do the Lebanese people let Syria/Iran/Hizbollah control the government? Answer: they are too weak? Why have the Gemayel family, the Jumblatt family and the Hariri family all bowed down before Iran and Syria??? Who threatens Lebanon? Israel? Everybody knows Israel has no territorial desire over Lebanon but what about Syria - of course!!

>>>I ranted alot there, but its a complicated situation, but as much as i hate hezbollah, i cant objectively call them terrorist, just for the sake of it. Their actions in the 2006 war, showed clearly that they aren't targeting civilians, in fact as a ratio Israel killed more civilians than hezbollah did, i don't know what defines terrorism but there must be some kind of standard

> Of course, and you have a lot to rant about, I agree with you. I guess you live in America so you can make statements like:

>>>”but as much as i hate hezbollah, i cant objectively call them terrorist, just for the sake of it”.

> What are you talking about Christians are being driven out Lebanon and the whole middle east by the likes of Hizbollah! How can you defends those who drove you out? Are you too scared for your fellow Christians to openly object to those that would kill you?

>>>Their actions in the 2006 war, showed clearly that they aren't targeting civilians, in fact as a ratio israel killed more civilians than hezbollah did, i don't know what defines terrorism but there must be some kind of standard.

> They targeted Israeli cities and the reason that more Israelis weren't killed is because they sat in their bomb shelters for a month! I never fail to be amazed that people look at the kill ratio only as if to say they'd feel better if more Israelis died. Israel protects it citizens as best it can and does not HIDE BEHIND THEM, Hizbollah, HAMAS and all the other TERROR organizations do this for PR purposes and it is sad.

In summation I agree with your conclusions, you are a practical person with the right dreams and hopes. On that I agree with you but you, as a Christian must indeed call a spade a spade and be honest as to whom is really ripping Lebanon to pieces and I have a hint for you...it has nothing to do with Hizbollah’s so-called “resistence” it has to do with keeping Lebanon unstable so that Iran/Syria can completely take control there...God willing they will not succeed and the Lebanese people will truly gain their freedom! Amen!

15 posted on 08/21/2010 9:16:11 AM PDT by Netz
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To: hannibaal
Shiites throughout history have never been extreme

Oh, bull. They're the ones who invented suicide bombing.

16 posted on 08/21/2010 9:41:55 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: hannibaal
Depending on your definition of terrorism, I dont think you can objectively classify as terrorists(hezbollah i mean).

Hezbollah hijacked a civilian airliner in 1985. They tortured an unarmed U.S. sailor on board, a Navy diver, for no reason other than to terrify the other passengers into submission, and they didn't just put panties on his head or pour water on his face and make sure he'd be healthy enough to go back home when it was over, and they weren't looking to get information out of him to prevent a future attack, this was deliberate torture to terrify the CIVILIANS on board the craft. And when they were done having their fun shocking the men, women and children on board, many of whom if not all of whom had no dog in their fight, they murdered him, even though they had already rendered him helpless to interfere with their plans. That's just pure unfiltered evil- that is terrorism. There is no good in such people, there is no honor in such people, and why anyone would think such evil people ha any good motives behind their actions is inexplicable.

Now, remember the airliner was a clearly marked civilian airliner broadcasting a civilian IFF and carried no weapons. There were no Israeli soldiers aboard. There was no way to say "Oops, my bad, I mistook the target for an incoming bomber." Their action was not defensive, it wasn't even preemptive- the target posed no threat to them. Their act was pure aggression. They selected the target specifically because it was defenseless and they knew it wouldn't take any courage on their part to do it.

Not only did they select a nonthreatening target, they attacked it not while wearing identifiable uniforms but in the guise of civilians, which is by itself terrorism.

The term "terrorism" was developed as a humanitarian act to protect noncombatants and third parties from the ravages of war by encouraging nations or groups with a legitimate causes to fight only themselves and not use the innocent as shields. In this way populations and cultures could recover more quickly after disputes had been settled in combat.

The only reason to distinguish betweeen terrorists and soldiers and civilians is to prevent loss of life- otherwise, why bother? The inherent weakness of men who are trying to be moral and honorable is that their reluctance to kill the innocent makes them much more vulnerable to men wihout these good qualities. The reluctance to harm the innocent forces the good to fight their battles as far from civilians as they can and still do the job, or even to pass up opportunities to target an enemy when civilians are in the way. It doesn't take long for an enemy to realize this and if the enemy is unethical enough, to deliberately merge into the population in order to use the innocent as armor- to fire from beneath women's skirts as or guys used to say about terrorists in Somalia.

The trick shedding a uniform and hiding behind women/hospitals/ambulances/schools when lauching attacks, or trying to make weapons specifically for use against civilians is so effective against people with morals that in order to balance things, that it was defined as unlawful in war at Geneva. Unlawful combatants who choose to fight that way would have to risk penalties that lawful combatants- soldiers and militia who put themselves at risk to protect the innocent - would be protected from having to endure. The idea was also to encourage nations to be accountable for the actions of their forces rather than to use proxies to avoid accountability.

You can gnerally tell who the good guys are by noting whose fighters the agitators are willing to throw rocks at. You NEVER throw rocks at evil people - they will just kill you, not fire rubber bullets or use pepper spray. So when we see people chucking rocks at armed Israelis, what does that tell us? It tells us that the Israelis are a humanitarian people showing great restraint, and the rock throwers are just trying to using the ethics of the Israelis to play propaganda wars. No one is stupid enough to throw rocks at a butcher because you won't get to do it twice.

Of course groups which practice unlawful combatant warfare try to whine and complain about how unfair things are that they are called terrorists, but they should be careful what they ask for, or what they ultimately force us to do, because it will only make their cause less likely to succeed. If we ever decided to abandon our moral code and return to all out warfare then the terrorists would be utterly be wiped out albeit at the expense of a great many more innocent people and the lands would be desolate for generations.

17 posted on 08/21/2010 10:44:11 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: Netz

You know, reading back on my post, I feel that it doesnt show my true feelings on the whole issue in Lebanon. In fact, I can read my own post and attack myself on so many points. The reality is that I truly hate hezbollah, syria, and the palestinians for what they have done to Lebanon. I have visited Lebanon a few times over the course of my life, and I do feel like an outsider there, never had any formal lessons in arabic, but I can speak at a fair level. You are right lebanon has been getting more and more islamized, I went this summer to see some of my extended family and a lebanese priests body was exhumed and put on display as he was beatified by the roman catholic church. Alot of my family has fought in the lebanese civil war, with the kataeb(phalangists) and its something I am so proud of no matter how the liberal media painted the phalangists during the civil war, unfortunately though corruption and lack of support from other countries and the death of Bachir Gemayel(the head of the christian lebanese forces) basically resulted in the war being a total loss for the christians. At the end of the war, one major christian leader was assassinated, another jailed and the other exiled.
Its sad to see alot of christians in lebanon having some support for hezbollah, but it boils down to the other side which is supported by the west trying to push them out of government.
I know fully well of all the massacres the palestinians and syrians perpetrated on lebanese christians, but for some reason all people talk about in the lebanese war is sabra and chatila, which is sad really.
My comments about shiites being less extreme than sunnis, isnt really from a terrorism point of view. Shiites tend to be more tolerant than sunni muslims, for example its not uncommon at all to see shiites visiting churches and doing the sign of the cross, i knew a shiite family who celebrated christmas. Sunnis are much less tolerant than shiites, its sunni groups who usually go around opening mosques in every corner of the world. In downtown beirut there is a huge church, and right next to it was an old church from the ottoman empire which was converted to a mosque and still is a mosque, they then built 2 more mosques surrounding the church, like 50 meters from each other. When i pointed it out my dad said its probably to show dominance, and you can see that on ground zero(im not sure if they are going throug with building that mosque?)
My dad tells me a story, of kissinger before the civil war and he had a discussion with the then lebanese president franjieh, who are all maronites, and kissinger advised him that lebanese christians should move out of lebanon to places like the USA, France and Canada where they can easily integrate and live their lives. My dad tells me the lebanese president got angry and told him no, and the reason is that the maronite church is lebanese, the patriarchy is lebanese, about 99% of the worlds maronites are lebanese or syrian. We feel, as a people and religiously tied to lebanon, its difficult to pack up and leave, when you see your country of origin being overrun, and bred into islam.
In the last war in 2006, i was hoping that atleast with all the disaster that was occuring in lebanon atleast one good thing might occur and that would be that israel would take hezbollah out, but that didnt happen. In 2007 the lebanese government wanted to take down hezbollahs military communication lines, and hezbollah threatened them and when they moved forward they proceeded to take over all of muslim beirut and many suburbs in basically a few days.(they didnt go into christian areas, because christians would definately fight back and it would erupt bigtime, by the way lebanon is very segregated, you have totally christian areas and totally shiite areas and sunni areas and druze areas etc..) So i know hezbollah is basically holding lebanon hostage, half the army are shiite and if the lastr civil war was anything to go by, should another breakout between hezbollah and lebanon, the army would splinter into groups aswell. In the last year and specifically last few months they have been capturing many israeli spies, including many army generals, and one former general who is in the christian bloc that have a political alliance with hezbollah. (this same christian bloc who were calling hezbollah terrorists 5 years ago, and even went before congress talking about hezbollah and syria), and now they are arguing on who assassinated the ex PM, hezbollah says israel and there were people saying there is evidence hezbollah was behind it which supposedly will come out in the next few days. I hope it does turn out to be hezbollah, it will be a revelation that will turn alot of people against them.

I dont know where im going with this haha i was just typing :D but yeah thinking of this stuff makes my head hurt, im off to explore sydney!


18 posted on 08/21/2010 8:17:44 PM PDT by hannibaal
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To: hannibaal
Part of the problem with these issues is that it takes forever just to explain the background and then write your opinion and that means a lot of blah, blah, blah.

It is hard to express all your feelings and I understand that. I appreciate your honesty and deep feelings. I would love to see Lebanon free but because she is weak, others rape her.

You know that Israel helped the Phalange forces of Hadad and Bashir Gemeyal in their fight. The world remembers Sabra and Shatila in order to defame Israel and Ariel Sharon but they are ignorant about Damour for example.

There was something called “The Good Fence” between Israel's Metulla and southern Lebanon for many years - ask your father about it.

The reason that I can hold this honest dialogue with you is because YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN, tolerant, educated and open-minded. I am an American-Israeli Jew and when I came to Israel (in 1981) I was supposed to meet a Priest friend in Jounieh but it never happened due to the tension just before 1982.

No matter what you may think of me now, I share your pain and longing for a stable and FREE Lebanon. If at some time in the future, Lebanon regains it's freedom and independence, I am sure and honest Peace agreement will happen but till then...God knows.

Thank you sir for your openess and enjoy Australia...

Netz

19 posted on 08/21/2010 11:44:27 PM PDT by Netz
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To: hannibaal

As you were saying?

See: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/#axzz0xb5JDRKu

News about yesterday’s Shiite - Sunni clashes in Beirut...

Sure, they love each other don’t they???


20 posted on 08/24/2010 11:45:43 PM PDT by Netz
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To: hannibaal
Dear Lebanese friend:

We've discussed Lebanon's fragile social and political fabric but the true test of what you say about how Sunnis are not radical but Shiites are will be tested very soon and unfortunately soon...in Iraq.

Now that President Obama is ABANDONING the Iraqis you will soon see a horrific bloodbath in Iraq between Sunnis and Shiites. This will make Lebanon look like childsplay I am sorry to say.

Every night now, gangs of infiltrators (Shiites) are seeping into Iraq from Iran and (Sunnis) sneaking in from Syria, setting the stage for the takeover of Iraq by Iran. Iraq is now so porous that it's a free for all destination for many armed groups.

Obama is leaving Iraq in a vacuum and every piece of feces is being sucked into that country. A major Muslim-Muslim war is about to happen there and Iran is sure, that very soon, Iraq will be a province of Iran...so much for your Sunni moderation and Shiite extremism.

President Carter abandoned Iran.
President Obama is abandoning Iraq

A lot of blood is about to be shed...

21 posted on 08/25/2010 12:17:49 AM PDT by Netz
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To: Netz

Actually I mentioned that sunnis are more extremist than shiites, not the other way around. Then again in terms of non muslims they both are fanatical. I read more about the situation in lebanon after you posted that link, and believe it or not they mentioned that clash started over a parking space a hezbollah official was arguing with some people of that abhash sunni group which go to the mosque there. About the Iraq issue, im sure that you are right and iran will get a foothold there, especially given that the majority of iraqis are shiite. If it turns out in lebanon that hezbollah did infact assassinate hariri, then you can be sure to see the sunnis start to get even more aggressive, although with the way this investigation has gone over the last few years i doubt they will ever come to a conclusion, and the longer its delayed the less likely they will.
I have many muslim friends and acquaintances, and for the most part theyre all great people, but they tend to be well off and probably because of that, not so observant of their religion; more progressive i’ll say. Unfortunately that is not the case among the masses of muslims around the world. Ive been to lebanon around 3 years combined with all vacations etc.. but I really havent ventured to muslim areas all that much if at all actually, and i remember once a friend invited me to go to his place which was very close to the hezbollah area of south beirut, and he told me make sure to hide my necklace with the cross under my shirt because there are some psychos around and you never know if theyll cause problems. I think the world would be alot better off if people were just more tolerant and a little less ignorant. Lebanon is a tolerant place i would say, or atleast used to be, the civil war changed all that and the years of occupation aswell, everyone there thinks on a sectarian basis, back their own religion, the shiites have hezbollah and amal who although were at odds during the civil war are like two peas in a pod now, the sunnis have the future movement, the druze have the progressive socialist party, the christians have the lebanese forces and the free patriotic movement, the latter of which is politically allied to hezbollah at the moment, because the sunnis basically cheated them out of ministerial positions that they were entitled to back in 2005 i believe. All of these parties think basically on a religious level, and not for the lebanons benefit. I blame the palestinians and the syrians(especially) for that, the syrians were masters of pitting the lebanese against one another with one simple assassination of a leader. I read once that lebanon was the only “arab” country that had an increase in jewish residents after the creation of the state of israel, although that lebanese jewish community all but disappeared during the civil war, i think the jewish lebanese living in lebanon number in the single digits now. Lebanon however is a different organism than iraq, lebanons grievances are mainly between corrupt leaders wanting a bigger piece of the money laundering pie. Alot of spies have been caught recently, of all faiths, i think about 600 or something ridiculous like that, goes to show how many people willing to sellout hezbollah, they must be pretty easy to come by.

Ugh the headache of the situation comes again, it would be so relieving to know what alot of them are fighting for, particularly in iraq, never understood what kind of message blowing up a market of civilians does, i mean whats the motive behind that?... just plain weird.

About obama abandoning iraq, I feel its more a political move to please people at home rather than a smart decision. If you ask me, if it is all undone because of withdrawal, it means every person who died in that war died in vain, we need to leave iraq a strong, stable nation, not one that can implode at the whim of its neighbours.


22 posted on 08/26/2010 11:07:19 AM PDT by hannibaal
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To: hannibaal
I know you have a lot to say, a lot of frustration, a lot of bewilderment. In terms of education and finance, of course there is a connection between extremism, violence and resorting to terror BUT...most terror leaders are highly-educated and wealthy individuals. Shiite, Sunni, Christian, Druze, Carcessian, Alawite, Jew or whatever MUST not always kill each other.

When the Koran is used to incite, when mosques are used as missile launching pads, when schools, UN buildings and private apartment blocks are used as weapons storage facilities, when Muslims attack embassies just because of a cartoon, when Muslims kill in the name “Allah is Great” then how can you REASON with these people. The situation is not just “weird” as you called it, it is downright ABSURD and pointless. I know that the people of Lebanon are peace-oriented but with so many internal weaknesses I don't know how to arrive at that goal.

In Iraq or in many other places in the world, Muslim terrorists blow up public places, they kill the very people that they would like to win over to their side. It is the true meaning of terror - to instill terror in the hearts of innocent people, to keep them scared, to prevent them from having a constructive and democratic dialogue and that is the very reason why they must be eliminated, terror defeated ONLY by (unfortunately) killing them all. That is what needs to be done.

With regards to Obama’s policy of withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan...it will be a disaster, they are not ready yet. Obama is another Jimmy Carter...G-d help us all.

23 posted on 08/30/2010 2:09:16 AM PDT by Netz
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