Skip to comments.The Ground ZOT mosque must be built!!!!
Posted on 08/18/2010 6:30:21 AM PDT by detritus
It is hard to imagine that anything has gone unsaid about the so-called Ground Zero mosque, but an important point seems to be missing.
The mosque should be built precisely because we don't like the idea very much. We don't need constitutional protections to be agreeable, after all.
This point surpasses even all the obvious reasons for allowing the mosque, principally that there's no law against it. Precluding any such law, we let people worship when and where they please. That it hurts some people's feelings is, well, irrelevant in a nation of laws. And, really, don't we want to keep it that way?...
...[T]he more compelling point is that mosque opponents may lose by winning. Radical Muslims have set cities afire because their feelings were hurt. When a Muslim murdered filmmaker Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam, it was because his feelings were hurt. Ditto the Muslims who rioted about cartoons depicting the image of Muhammad and sent frightened doodlers into hiding...
This is why plans for the mosque near Ground Zero should be allowed to proceed, if that's what these Muslims want. We teach tolerance by being tolerant. We can't insist that our freedom of speech allows us to draw cartoons or produce plays that Muslims find offensive and then demand that they be more sensitive to our feelings....
Nobody ever said freedom would be easy. We are challenged every day to reconcile what is allowable and what is acceptable. Compromise, though sometimes maddening, is part of the bargain. We let the Ku Klux Klan march, not because we agree with them but because they have a right to display their hideous ignorance.
Ultimately, when sensitivity becomes a cudgel against lawful expressions of speech or religious belief--or disbelief--we all lose.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Support for the Cordoba Initiative amongst non-Muslims boils down to four incorrect beliefs:
1. Rauf et all are moderates and this initiative will help build bridges.
Actually Rauf is a member of the Muslim brotherhood and there stated goal is a new Caliphate, restoration of lands seized from Muslims, and eventual world-wide Sharia. They share the goals of Al Qaeda, differing only in tactics (and that's being charitable).
2. Opposing this will inflame the Muslim world giving terrorist support.
Weakness also makes Bin Laden Stronger. If being nice to Muslims and giving in worked, we would not have been attacked after fleeing Somalia and helping Muslims in the Balkans. They hate us anyway. So, "oderint dum metuant" or "As they hate, let them fear (us)".
3. If the government acts against Radical Islam it will go after all religions. This belief is found among the left, libertarians, paleoconservatives, and many religious.
Preposterous. In the late 19th century, we were a very tolerant nation towards most religions. At the same time, we put down the Ghost-Dancing movement among the Indians. We did so because we saw it as a call for war. In World War 2, we did not let Nazis in the Lutheran Church or neopagans operate.
4. Regardless of merit this is private property and we cannot interfere.
Actually, the group behind this lied on their forms stating that they owned two properties instead of a single one. That should automatically revoke their permits. Moreover, they committed perjury. And even if they hadn't lied NY City and the MTA puts the breaks on private construction all the time. St. Nicholas Church, the Greek Orthodox Church wrecked on 9/11 remains in ruins because of municipal and MTA interference.
Also, sedition is not covered by property rights or the First Amendment. In so far as the Cordoba Initiative is a project to overthrow our legal system, we have the right to stop it. We have an obligation to do so. This is a defining issue. Any politician on the wrong side of it must never be trusted with the security of this country.
First off, none of our Constitutional Rights are absolute, nor was the Constitution intended to be a suicide pact.
I do not believe that Contitutional protection should be extended to a so called religion that when followed correctly has the stated purpose of abolishing all other governments and establishing its own Sharia rule.
To me this is a clear case of self-preservation and common sense.
Well, it’s nice to see you got the zot you deserved and I’m now engaging in the FR equivalent of the “speak with dead” spell from D&D. Now, some comments and questions related to your epic fail:
1. Anyone more conservative than Cornell West knows Kathleen Parker has gone over to the dark side, and to be frank, the woman was a blonde joke for a long time anyway. I mean, for Pete’s sake, man, her column on this was the featured “From the Left” column on the IBD website. And good Lord, posting a Kathleen “I decided Obama would be a great president because I liked him so much and because my husband has lust in his heart for that Sarah Palin” Parker and then accusing us of being driven by feelings? Jeez, no hypocrisy there.
Dude, your short run here was like Vladimir Putin showing up on the set of Soul Train claiming to be Don Cornelius’ replacement. Good grief. Try posting a Maureen Dowd column next time. No, really. We’ll spot you and zot you just as quick, but at least we’ll get to see some fine photos of Catherine Zeta-Jones while we zot you.
2. You really have betrayed your intellectual shallowness by buying into the strawman libs are putting up that this is a test of religious freedom. The backup for that is in point 3 below, but let me ask you this: Can you tell me exactly why asking someone to voluntarily move a religious facility 7 or 8 blocks is a violation of their right to worship?
3. A few questions:
Though you’ve expressed derision for feelings, I’d like to know, will you be volunteering to tell widows and parents that lost someone in the Trade Center that they are un-American people who oppose religious freedom? Is there some reason that principle requires us to ignore the views of the people most effected by this decision?
Would you consider it just “woh woh woh woh FEEEEEELings” if people didn’t want a German cultural center in Treblinka? Would opposing it require one to hate all Germans or think all Germans are Nazis?
Would you consider it just “woh woh woh woh FEEEEEELings” if people didn’t want an American cultural center two blocks from the Atomic Bomb Dome in Hiroshima? Would opposing it require one to hate all Americans or think that dropping the bomb was a war crime?
Speaking of Hiroshima, what if the facility was a Japanese-owned American tribute restaurant, or an airpower museum that displayed artifacts of military aviation from many countries? Would thinking those were inappropriate be just “woh woh woh woh FEEEEEELings?”
Would you consider it just “woh woh woh woh FEEEEEELings” if people didn’t want the 7th Cavlary to have a reunion at Wounded Knee, or even just outside the gate of the reservation that contains it? Would opposing it require one to hate all American soldiers or think all American soldiers are murderous?
Would you consider it just “woh woh woh woh FEEEEEELings” if people didn’t want a fundamentalist church to overlook Matheew Shepard’s grave? After all, the vast, vast majority of Christians would never engage in gaybashing. Would opposing it require one to hate all Christians or think all Christians are homophobes? Would it be a violation of religious freedom?
Speaking of Shepard’s grave, what if the Westboro Baptist Church wanted to build a new sanctuary nearby? And were the cities of Casper and Cheyenne engaging in “woh woh woh woh FEEEEEELings” when they denied WBC a permit to put up a “monument” to Shepard that read, “MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God’s Warning: ‘Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.’ Leviticus 18:22.”
Just something to think about before you go back to middle school.
Bloomberg is the first—and hopefully last—New York politician to give the widows of FDNY and NYPD fallen the big middle finger.
I hate the idea of this mosque, but there are ways to say “we should let them build it” without portraying those of us who oppose it as unAmerican.
Freepmail about Bloomberg coming your way in a minute.
You’re a piece of s***. As was noted on that other thread.
And now you’re a ZOTTED piece of s***.
Leftists such as yourself are insane, stupid, psychopathic, in darkness, mentally ill, in illusion, enthralled by evil dreams, hateful, envious, perverted, frustrated, at war with your higher nature, at war with God and Natural Law, and will face the just reward for all your misbehavior sooner or later.
We would like to knows his origin like most other FReepers???
Oh, and Kathleen Parker is a fellow POS douchebag as well.
Hmmmm...what is your definition of “many, many?” Can you back it up with a cite or two?
Also, I think it would be fair to say that most, if not all, of the people who wish to prevent the build with law see it as an enemy action in a time of war, rather than the establishment of a place of worship. Even if you disagree with them on whether it should be built, would you make a case that private property rights extend to enemy operators in a time of war? And if so, wouldn’t it be cruciial that we establish exactly which one of the two this is before proceeding with construction?
detritus has been banned.
Say what? I never advocated zoning over covenants. Thats a weak strawman argument, if ever I heard one.
We are stuck with what we are stuck with; primarily zoning boards and their non-democratic/non-representative decision making. If the choice is betweeen zoning boards and NOTHING, then I'll take the former with one caveat; we better make damn sure they make decisions that reflect the will of the people they represent.
BTW, if you really were a member of the real world you would recognize that the people allowing this mosque to be built are the same ones that wont let the Towers be rebuilt and the Greek Orthodox Church be rebuilt. Since we're not about to get rid of Zoning, its time to make them live out their charter.
Both statements bear repeating. Awesome post.
A Ground Zero mosque as a symbol of religious tolerance? Oh, the irony!
BTW, one thing I’ve noticed (and it was chilling, given the nature of our PC society) is that the Freedom From Religion Foundation has begun making the argument that “freethinkers” (here comes the irony) are emotionally harmed by seeing religious advertisements and displays.
BTW, have you noticed there has been no word from the Freedom From Religion Foundation on the mosque issue? Strange...these folks and their ilk can’t get to a microphone fast enough to compare peaceful Christians, Jews, Hindus and others to the “religious” 9/11 hijackers, but when someone is trying to honor said hijackers with a religious facility....crickets.
I had to check the keywords, then the author spot, to be sure this wasn’t a Semmens satire.
It isn’t feelings, sport, and it is indeed a question of principle. No people is obligated to allow their enemy to stick a thumb in their eye. Think of it as defense.
“If it’s about anyone’s “feelings” it’s about the sense of contempt and hauteur of Muslim radicals. “
Or the contempt and hauteur of Kathleen Parker. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2572791/posts for a laugh.
HAHAHAHAHA! Bye bye!
I oppose the building of one more mosque in the US. I also support deporting every single Moslem who has any connection to any terrorist organization.
I also support having Arabic speaking FBI or other guys attend every meeting in every mosque to determine if they are fomenting terrorism.
Also any Moslem non-citizen should be off welfare, foodstamps, HUD and any and all other public services as of yesterday. And any Moslem who verbally supports terrorism (many have) should be deported, and all relatives of such supportees should be deported with them.
Ahhh! This needs to be preceded by a warning to epileptics! LOL
That’s a nice one!
It is indeed telling that secularists/atheists/leftists hate all religions except....Islam.
They have a natural affinity towards Islam despite Islam’s official condemnation of homosexual acts and its barbaric treatment of women; which one would think that secularists/atheists/leftists would not tolerate since they are feminists and homosexualists.
It’s the destruction that attracts them.
LOL! Lots of good graphics on this thread. Cheers me right up after seeing detritus’ little steaming piles yesterday.
Even muslims realize the Victory Mosque is a bad idea. They even have a name for it - “fitna” and say that it is forbidden by the Koran.
It's the reason that the radical Muslims want to build their 'victory mosque' next to ground zero is because of "FEEEEEELings...." There is no law that says they have to build it there.
I see you found your promised land of Zot.
Good point. It’s also interesting that they never seemed to care much about Islam until it was the driving force behind the death of 3,000 Americans and the destruction of a symbol of American capitalism. Even liberal support of Palestine was always more of a “hate the Jews” thing than a “love the Muslims” thing.
Yes indeed. Leftists etc hate Christians, religious Jews, Hindus and any faithful who believe in moral absolutes.
Yet they have a strong affinity for Islam.
Islam also hates Christians, Jews, Hindus and any religious believer who is not Muslim.
It’s the hatred they love, and the destruction motivated by that hatred.
I think it is inevitable that war is on its way; plus the news from China. Bad bad times ahead.
Say what? I never advocated zoning over covenants. Thats
I never said you did. Your view seems to be, to quote Malcolm X, to use “BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY” to selectivly stop this owner from building a mosque of his private property IMHO, that “by any means necessary” attitude a recipe for undermining not only property rights in a general sense but the rule of law. If I have incorrectly stated your position, please correct me.
??? Heh? Is that now my quote?
For a second , lets come back to the real world. The same zoning board that will not let the Twin Towers owners rebuild, or the owners of the Greek Orthodox Church rebuild, are willing to allow new owners funded from overseas build a mosque two blocks away.
Do you have shit on your eyeballs or are you blind? The zoning board (and its members) have to be reclaimed by the citizens that put those tools there in the first place. Capiche?
Sorry I'm late, but this'll reach you wherever you are, self-proclaimed piece of trash.
I love you too! Actually, I politely asked you to please correct me if that was not your position (re-read what I said). Instead of politely answering (is it?) you had a hissy fight. Have good life.
I don't like the idea of building a sewage treatment plant there either - should that be built 'precisely because we don't like' it?
Bloomberg would have supported building a Japanese Temple at Pearl Harbor during the war. What a fool.
First of all, I never stated that unlawful behaviors were permitted in our country in the course of worship - that thought flies in the face of common sense. However, regarding my example of worshipping greeen peas - to my knowledge, the worship of peas does not break any existing laws.
Second, in point of fact, though the breaking of our laws in the name of religion should be expected to be verboten, Sharia law actually encourages or requires it (stoning, murder, amputation, the marriage of girls as young as 6, etc.), and therefor cannot coexist with our Constitution and other existing state and federal laws. If we are not willing to face the facts and take a stand against it, we risk going the way of England, which now has Sharia courts to deal with muslim issues (domestic, financial, etc), and should non-muslims be involved in a situation with them, they are subject to it too. It is imperative that those who intend to grease the wheels towards subjugating our Constitution to sharia law are told no, in no uncertain terms.
May you hear the word “dhimmi” uttered at you as your face grows cold and your women scream in abject terror of the muslim aggressors.
I appreciate the kind word but respectfully disagree. If we don't uphold property rights in the highly-charged "outlier" cases, like this, those rights become less secure for all of us. In this respect, I agree with the great champion of liberty in the nineteenth century, William Graham Sumner, who said "The time when a maxim or principle is worth something is when you are tempted to violate it."
After reading of the small Christian Church that was destroyed on 9-11, the answer came to me. Let the muzzies build where they want and the size they want. Then on either side of their mosque, build a Christian Church and a Jewish Synagogue. Each should be twice as tall, twice as wide, and twice as deep as the mosque, in other words, eight times the cubic footage. Both should be constructed of black granite, plain, very fortress-like in architecture. Let’em look up to, and quake at the sight of, their moral superiors!
Quoted for truth.
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Zotland the Craven
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