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Decision Not to Rebuild Church Destroyed on 9/11 Surprises Greek Orthodox Leaders
Fox News ^ | August 18, 2010 | David Lee Miller and Kathleen Foster and FoxNews.com's Judson Berger

Posted on 08/18/2010 8:59:38 AM PDT by americanophile

Greek Orthodox leaders trying to rebuild the only church destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attacks expressed shock this week after learning, via Fox News, that government officials had killed a deal to relocate the church.

The St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, once a tiny, four-story building in the shadows of lower Manhattan, was destroyed in 2001 by one of the falling World Trade Center towers. Nobody from the church was hurt in the attack, but the congregation has, for the past eight years, been trying to rebuild its house of worship.

Though talks between the church and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey stalled last year, church leaders say they've been trying to kick-start discussions ever since. But amid debate over whether a proposed Islamic community center should go forward near Ground Zero, government officials threw cold water on the prospect of any deal with the church -- telling Fox News the deal is off the table.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: New York; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911mosque; antichristian; august13signup2010; christianity; church; doublestandard; droundzeromosque; government; greekorthodox; greekorthodoxchurch; groundzeromosque; islam; military; mosqueandstate; muslims; newsignup; newtrollonthisthread; nymosque; obama; palin; portauthority; proislamist; rebuild; sleeperonboard; stnicholaschurch
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Mosque yes, church no...
1 posted on 08/18/2010 8:59:39 AM PDT by americanophile
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To: americanophile

This is BIG. The ole War in the Balkan States between Orthodox and Ottomans.


2 posted on 08/18/2010 9:00:22 AM PDT by rovenstinez (,)
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To: americanophile

3 posted on 08/18/2010 9:01:52 AM PDT by americanophile (November can't come fast enough....)
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To: rovenstinez

This needs to go viral. I did not know that the government had killed the deal.

Sent this out to all your contacts.


4 posted on 08/18/2010 9:01:55 AM PDT by texmexis best (My)
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To: texmexis best

We are in a religious and constitutional war...I am stunned at how fast things have fallen...just like the towers.


5 posted on 08/18/2010 9:03:30 AM PDT by Blue Turtle
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To: americanophile

This nation has gone over firmly to the dark side.

I shudder in shame and horror.


6 posted on 08/18/2010 9:04:50 AM PDT by eleni121 (Thank you J-LO for canceling your Turk gig - decent human beings don't sing for rapist Muslim Turks)
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To: americanophile

When Obama was contacted about this, his response. Oh, that’s a local issue that I won’t comment on.... </sarcasm>


7 posted on 08/18/2010 9:06:31 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: americanophile

It should be rebuilt ASAP.


8 posted on 08/18/2010 9:06:40 AM PDT by Androcles (All your typos are belong to us)
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To: americanophile; Kolokotronis; annalex; MahatmaGandu; skeeter; NYer; Islaminaction; La Lydia; ...
Ping for old times' sake...
9 posted on 08/18/2010 9:07:14 AM PDT by americanophile (November can't come fast enough....)
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To: rovenstinez

I’ll put my lot in with my fellow Christians...


10 posted on 08/18/2010 9:07:45 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: americanophile

Islamic terrorists can destroy a peaceful Christian church yet our troops aren’t allowed to target mosques harboring terrorists.


11 posted on 08/18/2010 9:08:45 AM PDT by FReepaholic (The problem is they do not fear us.)
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To: Blue Turtle

It’s unbelievable, isn’t it? We seem to be shrouded in utter evil.


12 posted on 08/18/2010 9:11:37 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (I don't have a 'Cousin Pookie'.)
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To: americanophile
George Demos, a Republican candidate for New York's 1st Congressional District, also has drawn attention to the negotiations. He released an open letter to President Obama Tuesday urging him to, as he did with the mosque debate, weigh in on the church discussions.


13 posted on 08/18/2010 9:12:08 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: americanophile

Why the surprise??? Two factors:
1. An Muslimbie President
2. Arab money


14 posted on 08/18/2010 9:19:02 AM PDT by PORD (People...Of Right Do!)
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To: americanophile

Shocked? Surprised? Dismayed? Why?


15 posted on 08/18/2010 9:19:42 AM PDT by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: eleni121

Instead of shudder and shame, stand up and fight for our Judeo-Christian beliefs. Become a member of a Tea-Party, a member of a good strong conservative group, get out and support a good strong conservative with effort and money. We do.


16 posted on 08/18/2010 9:19:55 AM PDT by tillacum (It's the military, not the press, not the politicians, who keep this country free.)
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To: americanophile

Letter to President Obama From George Demos

August 17, 2010

President Barack Obama
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington DC, 20500

Dear Mr. President,

You recently offered your strong support for the right of the Mosque near Ground Zero to be built and stated that “Muslims have the right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country - that includes the right to build a house of worship.”

I believe that a Mosque near the hallowed Ground Zero where Islamic extremists murdered 3,000 Americans, including 168 from Suffolk County where I am a candidate for U.S. Congress, is inappropriate, provocative, and wrong.

While we may disagree on the appropriateness of the Mosque, we can surely agree that it is an issue of national importance that the only house of worship actually destroyed on September 11, 2001, the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, be rebuilt. For the last year, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey has refused to meet with Church officials and has placed bureaucratic roadblocks in way of rebuilding St. Nicholas Church.

The world is watching to see if the humble Church that stood as a quiet refuge at the crossroads of commerce will rise from the ashes of that fateful September morning and become a vibrant symbol of our faith and resiliency as a nation.

Mr. President, please stand up and defend our Judeo-Christian values, express your public and unwavering support for St. Nicholas Church, and ensure that it is rebuilt.

Sincerely,

George Demos
Candidate for U.S. Congress (NY-1)

Letter to President Obama From George Demos


17 posted on 08/18/2010 9:21:10 AM PDT by eleni121 (Thank you J-LO for canceling your Turk gig - decent human beings don't sing for rapist Muslim Turks)
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To: texmexis best

YES. WE ARE AT WAR WITH THIS SOCIALIST/MUSLIM GOVERNMENT IN WASHINGTON.

SEND THIS ARTICLE TO MILITARY ORGANIZATIONS/SUPPORT SERVICES (ACTIVE OR RETIRED)THAT YOU KNOW. SEND THIS ARTICLE TO POLICE/FRATERNAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT YOU KNOW. SEND THIS ARTICLE TO SENIOR CITIZEN ORGANIZATIONS, SOCIAL CLUBS OR HOUSING COMPLEXES WHERE VOTING SENIORS CAN BE REACHED.

SEND THIS ARTICLE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW. STEP UP AND DO NOT LET THESE SOCIALISTS/MUSLIMS STEP DOWN ON YOUR THROAT WITH THEIR SHOES. LIKE A DOG MARKING HIS TERRITORY, DO NOT LET THESE MUSLIMS ERECT A VICTORY MOSQUE ON THE GRAVES OF 3000, AND SPIT IN OUR FACES IN THE PROCESS. FIGHT THEM AND DESTROY THEM AND THEIR ATTACK ON WE THE CITIZENS.


18 posted on 08/18/2010 9:21:43 AM PDT by itssme
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To: tillacum

I don’t go around blabbing about what I do in support of freedom like some do. Nevertheless, I stand by my comments about this nation: it has gone over to the dark side...collectively.

We shall see if there is any reverse in the descent to hell soon enough.


19 posted on 08/18/2010 9:25:19 AM PDT by eleni121 (Thank you J-LO for canceling your Turk gig - decent human beings don't sing for rapist Muslim Turks)
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To: americanophile

Not only should the church be rebuilt, but it should be rebuilt on the exact same spot.

We really miss the implications of things that we do.

Here we are moving a church from ground zero. Isn’t that a victory for Islam? Of course it is.

“Why look, we not only took out the WTC towers, but we took out a Christian church in the process, and the port authority has prevented it from being rebuilt. A victory for Alah.”

Is this the message we want to send?

Not just no, but hell no!


20 posted on 08/18/2010 9:36:38 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (UniTea! It's not Rs vs Ds you dimwits. It's Cs vs Ls. Cut the crap & lets build for success.)
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To: americanophile

WTC site:

For Muslims Only


21 posted on 08/18/2010 9:38:25 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: samtheman
"WTC site: For Muslims Only"

They were the ones to clear it out, after all.

22 posted on 08/18/2010 9:41:25 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: americanophile

Two words for the Port Authority: Hagia Sophia.

You better believe the Greeks won’t forgive or forget this one.


23 posted on 08/18/2010 9:44:09 AM PDT by Loyalist
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To: americanophile

Mosque is paying for everything 100%

Church wants more taxpayer money than the Port Authority was originally offering. It seems like they got a tad bit greedy.

“The archdiocese and Port Authority now offer sharply conflicting accounts of where things went wrong. The Port Authority has previously claimed the church was making additional demands — like wanting the $20 million up front and wanting to review plans for the surrounding area. They say the church can still proceed on its own if it wishes.

“The church continues to have the right to rebuild at their original site, and we will pay fair market value for the underground space beneath that building,” a spokesperson with the Port Authority told Fox News”

I understand the outrage regarding the mosque, but wouldn’t you be even more upset if the mosque was demanding taxpayer funds for its inception? I’ve been following this for a few years and it seems like the people behind this Church want the original one to be “Super-Sized” on the taxpayer’s dole. Too bad real life isn’t McDonald’s.

“The church continues to have the right to rebuild at their original site, and we will pay fair market value for the underground space beneath that building,” a spokesperson with the Port Authority told Fox News”


24 posted on 08/18/2010 9:52:03 AM PDT by MaritS
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To: texmexis best

Funny thing is... all the Greek Americans I know are long standing Liberals and positively Ga Ga about “O”


25 posted on 08/18/2010 9:52:10 AM PDT by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think." Adolph Hitler)
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To: DoughtyOne; Jim Robinson
“Why look, we not only took out the WTC towers, but we took out a Christian church in the process, and the port authority has prevented it from being rebuilt. A victory for Alah.”

Agreed.

Why was this pulled off the News/ACTIVISM sidebar?
FR has the influence to make this church into every bit as big a story as the Ground Zero Mosque.

It is a perfect symmetry. We should use it.

26 posted on 08/18/2010 9:52:10 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Government is an apex predator.)
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To: Carry_Okie

I agree. We should push it. Good call.


27 posted on 08/18/2010 9:55:13 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (UniTea! It's not Rs vs Ds you dimwits. It's Cs vs Ls. Cut the crap & lets build for success.)
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To: Army Air Corps
I’ll put my lot in with my fellow Christians..

I will join you. The powers of darkness have already lost their battle. Come Lord Jesus.

28 posted on 08/18/2010 9:55:48 AM PDT by afnamvet (Patriots Rising)
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To: SMARTY

This is true in my experience as well. Its a big socialist society, some of the most rabid anti-Bush nuts I knew happened to be naturalized Greeks. I don’t think that they’d be much too opposed seeing the US getting as fuxored as their native country currently is.


29 posted on 08/18/2010 9:56:37 AM PDT by MaritS
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To: Carry_Okie

It’s good to see your post Carry_Okie. Hope all is going good for you and your family.

BTW, CalCowGirl has been around over the last month or so.


30 posted on 08/18/2010 9:58:07 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (UniTea! It's not Rs vs Ds you dimwits. It's Cs vs Ls. Cut the crap & lets build for success.)
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To: SMARTY

I wonder why. He stands against anything Greek, including the Greek underpinnings of the West.


31 posted on 08/18/2010 10:05:05 AM PDT by texmexis best (My)
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To: Blue Turtle

I am surprised - stunned - also. But I also remember reading predictions, Biblical and otherwise, of events such as these.

God is watching, always.


32 posted on 08/18/2010 10:15:11 AM PDT by cvq3842
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To: americanophile

Oh. My. God. I have to go puke.


33 posted on 08/18/2010 10:28:46 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Hail Mary Full of Grace, The Lord Is With Thee...)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

And these are the good old days. Like the last days of the Weimar Republic. Or Saigon.


34 posted on 08/18/2010 10:30:26 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Hail Mary Full of Grace, The Lord Is With Thee...)
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To: MaritS

The fricgkin musk wasn’t DESTROYED on 9-11. I don’t know if all the arguments add up, but that is an essential difference between the two situations. You can’t compare them in that way.


35 posted on 08/18/2010 10:34:29 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Hail Mary Full of Grace, The Lord Is With Thee...)
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To: americanophile

Not SURPRISED. This is just the continuation of the old Christian East/West battle vs. Islamic East fight, which goes back CENTURIES.


36 posted on 08/18/2010 10:36:13 AM PDT by Biggirl (AZ Is DOING THE JOB The Feds Should Be Doing, ENFORCING The Southern Border! =^..^=)
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To: americanophile

” MUSLIMS MUST ATONE BEFORE MOSQUE IS BUILT AT WTC, WHERE MIRACLES WERE THOSE OF JESUS

It is one thing to respect religious freedom and to nurture relations between all God’s people and everyone, but it is also wrong to forget that two huge buildings fell in New York due to religious extremism built on hatred.

That extremism came not from Christians or Hindus or Buddhists, but from militant Muslims, and before any Muslim center is built in the shadows of “Ground Zero,” Muslims need to atone for what occurred nine years ago next month.

However much most Muslims disdain the actions of radicals (and most do), it is a simple fact that a great tragedy costing innocent lives and untold psychological trauma was done in the name of Islam. The center is planned at the site of a building that in fact sustained damage during the attacks (when the landing gear assembly of one plane fell onto it).

The Cordoba House, as it would be known, “was supposed to be a monument to religious tolerance, an homage to the city in Spain where Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived together centuries ago in the midst of religious foment,” says The New York Times.

This is laudable. It is essential. There should be no knee-jerk reactions to that aspect. Do they have a legal right? They do.

“Supporters of the mosque and cultural center in lower Manhattan, including New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, say its development should stand as a testament to religious tolerance in America,” says Fox News. “They say it would be a mistake to equate Islam as a whole, and its practice in the United States, with Al Qaeda — and remind critics that Muslims were also killed in the attacks on the World Trade Center.”

But meanwhile, New York City authorities have dragged their feet in approving a Christian building, Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church — which was destroyed on 9/11 by the collapse of the Twin Towers. It has spent nine long years trying to get building permits.

How about a Christian center?

For it was Jesus Who was witnessed — His intervention — by many of those who miraculously survived the disaster.

He was even seen (allegedly) by one surviving broker as a apparition.

Other Christians heard voices that guided them to safety. And before September 11 were a good number of Catholics who had premonitions or were miraculously kept away that fateful morning (or prepared for it).

On September 11, a man named Ron DiFrancesco who worked for Euro Brokers in the south tower at the World Trade Center found himself in a horrifying struggle to find his way down and away from the searing flames that would soon collapse the structure after the terrorists’ plane struck just below Euro’s offices.

Blocked from descending by a collapsed wall, a number of others were stretched face-down on the floor, crying and gasping for air, but something remarkable had occurred to DiFrancesco. “Someone told me to get up,” he says. Someone “called” him. The voice was male and insistent but belonged to no human. “Get up!” it said.

DiFrancesco did, with the sensation that someone or something was helping him up (”Hey! You can do this,” he swears he heard), and this terrified man was led to the stairs — where he saw a point of light, followed it, fought his way through drywall and other debris, and was directed through flames that normally would have stopped him.

DiFrancesco descended to safety moments before the skyscraper fell, one of just four people who survived from the 84th floor or above.

These and other accounts are in a book called The Third Man Factor (by John Geiger with Vincent Lam).

Afterwards, debris fell into the shape of a Cross (those two famous beams, a sign if ever there are signs), and clouds or lights shaped like crosses were also spotted in association with the towers.

Considering how many worked in those two buildings and surrounding structures, it’s a miracle many more did not die. But seldom is there talk of a monument to the Lord’s intervention — nor assurance that those two beams will be permanently allowed there.

There was also a mysterious trumpet player spotted in the days after the tragedy, which many felt was the Archangel Gabriel.

If so, we can find common ground here — with Gabriel — with Muslims. We should always do that. We are called to love Muslims. It is crucial to do this — critical. They too believe in the archangels. They honor the Blessed Mother. Jesus loves them. There is no place for hatred.

But to always cow-tow to other religions while ignoring Christianity is beyond unfair and inches toward the realm of persecution. Would a president have okayed a Catholic center at Ground Zero if Catholics had engineered the destruction? Would Mayor Bloomberg?

At the least, those behind the Muslim center should lead in the public atonement.”

http://www.spiritdaily.com/mosquegroundzero.htm


37 posted on 08/18/2010 10:45:28 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: ichabod1

And? The point is that over the past few years the Port Authority has made generous offers to rebuild the church in that location and seeing dollar signs, they turned them down to see how much they could pull from Uncle Sam. You can’t even blame Obama for this because a large part of it was happening during Bush’s second term.

I believe that the church should be rebuilt, however they’re not entitled to excessive taxpayer funding just because they want to make version 2.0 a little bit more luxurious on the backs of taxpayers.


38 posted on 08/18/2010 10:46:53 AM PDT by MaritS
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To: americanophile

Also, you can do with your property what you want. But only if its a mosque. No Walmart in all of NYC, no Church for you Christians.


39 posted on 08/18/2010 10:56:33 AM PDT by steve0 (My plan B: christianexodus.org/)
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To: eleni121

Don’t let the media convince you that evil has triumphed. The good guys are about to display their numbers and power because the people who go to work everyday, the ones who make up the military and police forces and the ones who go to church every Sunday have been pushed about as far as they’re willing to be pushed.


40 posted on 08/18/2010 10:57:16 AM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: MaritS

Paterson offered to GIVE the muslims state land to build on.


41 posted on 08/18/2010 11:00:13 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: americanophile
ITS A TRAP!!!!!

This is a trap laid for conservatives, folks. They will agree to the Greek Orthodox Church IF everyone will accept the Cordoba Intiative.

42 posted on 08/18/2010 11:03:28 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

They are not the same, the Greek Orthodox Church was already in existence, the Cordoba Mosque was not.


43 posted on 08/18/2010 11:07:23 AM PDT by montyspython
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To: Erik Latranyi

The trap is they would have a “shared building”

the trap is they would only allow the church as a “museum” (of according to moslems, a dead religion)

The port authority is trying to take(steal) the underground rights. The 1916 church still owns those.

The church was actually negotiating to move to another land parcel in a straight swap and rebuilding money.


44 posted on 08/18/2010 11:09:15 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Madame Dufarge

here is your popcorn moment.

A democrat putting out a worthless letter to a useless person to simulate being busy.

Obama has nothing to do with this.


45 posted on 08/18/2010 11:10:38 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: MaritS
I believe that the church should be rebuilt, however they’re not entitled to excessive taxpayer funding just because they want to make version 2.0 a little bit more luxurious on the backs of taxpayers.

Has it ever occurred to you that this is just Port Authority propaganda? The same Port Authority that said last week in the Wall Street Journal that "the church can rebuild anytime" and now says that "there are no plans to rebuild"? That this is the same group at the Port Authority who thinks the mosque is "a good idea"?

Regardless of what transpired, the Port Authority can't just pick up and walk away from people whose church and land were destroyed on 9/11, taking their land and giving nothing in return, yet it appears that is exactly what they did.

If you think that the Port Authority is financed by taxpayers, you'd be wrong. Wiki:

Financially, the Port Authority has no power to tax and does not receive tax money from any local or state governments. Instead, it operates on the revenues it makes from its rents, tolls, fees, and facilities.

In fact, the Port Authority is one of the richest little independent fiefdoms in the nation. They could fund building Notre Dame and not have to crack their piggy bank, so I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. They aren't "us".

George Demos, the Conservative Republican candidate for Congress in the First District of New York will be appearing of Fox News today @ 2:45PM EST on America Live with Megyn Kelly to discuss his letter calling on President Obama to support the rebuilding of St. Nicholas Church, the only house of worship actually destroyed on September 11.

46 posted on 08/18/2010 11:11:31 AM PDT by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: SMARTY

Funny, all the Greek Americans I know are conservatives and despize obama. Rememeber most own their own business.

oh wait I forgot about jenifer aniston.


47 posted on 08/18/2010 11:12:09 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: MaritS

Aren’t the US taxpayers funding the trip for the mosque leader to go to the middle east to troll for funds also? Sorta seems the same to me when viewed in that light.


48 posted on 08/18/2010 11:12:14 AM PDT by jurroppi1
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To: montyspython; longtermmemmory
They are not the same, the Greek Orthodox Church was already in existence, the Cordoba Mosque was not.

Look, you and I know this, but the average voter does not. They will see Obama demanding the Greek Orthodox Church be rebuilt as the "way out" of this mess.

We know the details. We know why the Cordoba Initiative is a provacative move by the islamists. However, this late-developting Greek Orthodox Church gives the liberals a way out that makes conservative opposition to the muslims appear racist.

We live in a world of appearances, not reality.

49 posted on 08/18/2010 11:14:43 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: All


Archbishop Demetrios.


they better not piss this guy off.

Interesting how the media has not gone to him to ask any questions.


50 posted on 08/18/2010 11:16:29 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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