Skip to comments.New Coroner's Inquest Set For Costco Shooting
Posted on 08/19/2010 12:13:49 PM PDT by JLS
LAS VEGAS -- The Clark County Coroners Office has rescheduled the inquest hearing into an officer-involved shooting at a Summerlin Costco for Sept.22-24.
(Excerpt) Read more at fox5vegas.com ...
I do hope they get to the bottom of this - the way the police have handled it is not healthy.
Their cover up is starting to unravel................
Clean up on aisle 6.......
>>The LVPD has still not produced any video.<<
That is very, VERY telling. Costco is ALL about security cameras, yet there is no video? To be blunt, and frank, if this appears to be what the witnesses said it was, Costco would be on the hook here for a huge civil suit.
That may be a part of the motivation.
It is in Hollywood with some CGI experts. /s
Why would Costco be on the hook for trigger happy cops?
“The LVPD has still not produced any video.
It is in Hollywood with some CGI experts. /s”
Once finished the video will not only show that the LVPD was justified in the shooting, but it will also show the LVPD’s answered the first police call to the moon.
Police and Costco both. Personally I’ve moved to blaming Costco more than the police though.
All it takes is a Costco employee embellishing what was really going on and police show up ready to take down an active shooter, even if there isn’t one. If the police response’s information was bad then it’s not really their fault.
Now on the other hand if the police said “drop your weapon” and Erik couldn’t “drop” his weapon without first reaching for it, and that got him shot, then yes the police share some blame. But majority of the blame I still hold on Costco.
Strangely it’s the Costco security tapes that didn’t work. That tells me that the tapes showed something different than what the employee said and that Erik wasn’t yelling, ripping open packages and throwing stuff around. Suddenly Costco security says “oh huh” and the tapes get mysteriously glitched.
I don’t normally hope for corporate lawsuits, but if I’m right in my theory I hope Costco ends up paying Erik’s family and girlfriend a lot of money for the rest of their lives.
If I remember the story correctly as originally reported, a Costco employee called 9-1-1 and said that the man (who police subsequently shot and killed) had a gun and was behaving in a threatening and/or erratic manner in the store. According to eye witness reports at the time, the victim wasn’t behaving erratically and never displayed a gun. The employee saw the holstered gun inadvertently. If all or some of that is true, Costco will bear responsibility for the actions of their employee.
Anti-gun Costco employee calls police saying a man with a gun is yelling, tearing up merchandise, and throwing stuff around. Now police think there is a possible active shooter due to Costco embellishment and respond accordingly.
Bad intel leads to bad decisions. It’s not the fault of the people acting on that intel, it’s the fault of the source of that intel. Especially if the intel was fabrication or embellished.
Have the 911 tapes been released, or have they “disappeared” or equipment “malfunctioned”?............
I gotta quibble with you on this. What's the first rule for shooting, whether you're in the forest or at the range or in a crowd, know what you're shooting at. If I'm on a jury and somebody says "the minimum-wage guy said a guy in a yellow shirt was going crazy, so when I saw a guy in a yellow shirt I reflexively emptied my revolver", I'm not buying it.
>> Why would Costco be on the hook for trigger happy cops?
Irrational, provocative response to Scott’s carry while he was patronizing the facility.
Covered that a bit in a different post (3)
“if the police said drop your weapon and Erik couldnt drop his weapon without first reaching for it, and that got him shot, then yes the police share some blame. “
Costco’s employee made the 911 call and “embellished” his description a little bit.................
Bah read the post count wrong. Same post I covered that.
I’m not talking criminal. Civil.
If a jury can be convinced that the claims of the employee were false, and convinced that the cops perception of him was “poisoned” by false claims by the employee, well, it should be worth at least as much as hot coffee spilled on your lap.
I mean, nobody died that time.
Costco can be on the hook no matter what the finding of the corner’s inquest. You see their employee called the cops and likely falsely described Mr. Scott to the police as acting irratically.
Whether the cops committed a crime or not, Costco will likely pay out 8 figures on this.
The Las Vegas PD (LVMPD) has history of lying to the public and corruption.
Well, no. They sent the disk with the video file off to the Digital Editing Studios of Hollywood's finest. It's not quite ready for public viewing... yet.
AND as usual, the producer will not get any credit.
It's the VEGAS WAY.
Yes, it is. It is why COSTCO gave the ONLY copy of the disk to the LVPD, and acts just as stupidly about their security system.
No one at COSTCO or LVPD knows if there even were cameras, yet they sent the disk off to California to be 'evaluated'.
When they opened down here they sent us a free pass for a weekend. I went there one Saturday, didn't see anything spectacular, but I did buy a couple of items. I paid with a credit card which the checker handed back to me and then seemed to be fiddling with the cash register.
Since my hands were going to be full when I got outside, I put my sunglasses on and picked up my items while waiting for the cashier to hand me my receipt. She turns around and freaks that I have sunglasses on. She says, “sir, I have to ask you to remove your sunglasses immediately.”
I took them off and said, “ok, is there some problem.” As she handed me my receipt she said, “it is a security requirement.” I said, ‘oh, OK, guess you won't be getting Ray Charles's business” (he wasn't dead then).
Now she gets a look in her eyes like I just pointed a .44 mag at her. She must have pressed a button or alarm because almost instantly there are three guys at the checkout station. One of them said, “sir would you come over here to the office and we'll discuss this?” I replied, “no, we're going to pretend like I walked into someplace by mistake and I'll NEVER be back.” I walked right through them and I could hear one of them say to a cel phone or a walkie-talkie, “no, he's just leaving.”
I was truthful to my word and have NEVER been back.
Here’s a thread with the radio traffic from Dispatch (D) to the cops. Costco employees gave the impression of a guy “going berserk” (as per the cops description right after the shooting). I’ve excerpted some of the radio talk
D: It looks like the subject is still inside the business, argumentative with the manager who asked him to leave, telling him there’s no 413’s allowed inside the business, break. The manager is a Green Beret and is allowed to carry a 413. [Confused message, probably means the manager said the guy says he is a “Green Beret” and can carry a gun]. He’s throwing merchandise around; he’s still in isle 126 in the camping area, break. He appears to be fidgety. A female joined the male. She’s described as Hispanic, 30s, black long hair, wearing black tank and blue jeans. Security’s going to be standing outside the business in front of, to wait for officers to direct, break. He’s walking through the camping area towards the front of the business on the main isle. (13:18)
D: All units, code red this channel. Officers arriving on the 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center. (15:07)
2V16: 2V16, we need units to clear these people out of here. We’re attempting to evacuate right now; get as many people out as possible. (15:45)
D: 2V16, copy. (15:47)
351WC: 351WC, where’s the CP? [Command Point] (16:45)
AIR5: AIR5, are we still landline with anyone who has eyes on this guy, because there’s a lot of people pouring out of the store. I just want to make sure he doesn’t slip out. (17:28)
2V16: We got 2 officers here at the front doors watching everybody come out. (17:36)
D: 2V16, copy. AIR5, it looks like we’re still landline. It looks like the male is still being watched by inside personnel due to him ripping open packages. They’re concerned of a 414A. [Not sure what a 414A is, but a 413 seems to be “a gun”. Perhaps 414A is a shooting???] (17:49)
2V16: Copy, we’ve got a very orderly evacuation going on right now. We’ll try to get all these people out of here and then figure out what we’re going to do next. (18:00)
D: 2V16. (18:01)
2V54: He’s directly in the middle of the building. (18:08)
D: Okay, copy. Confirming suspect’s directly in the center of the building? (18:14)
2V54: ___ isle. (18:16)
D: You broke on the isle, could you re-advise? (18:20)
784: 784, copy location for IC. (18:31)
D: 784 (18:32)
784: It’s going to be set up at the northwest parking lot at the Red Rock Casino across Charleston. It’ll be the Costco command. I’ll be incident commander until the arrival of 351WC. (18:46)
D: 784 copy. 351WC, incident command at northwest parking lot of Red Rock Casino across Charleston. (18:55)
AIR5: Control, AIR5, we need 1 unit to take the north side of the Costco please, right off of Pavillion Center so they can keepy an eye on the back and the east side. (19:02)
2V16: (yell) 2V16, we got shots fired, shots fired! (19:11)
D: 2V16, copy. Anyone down? (19:12)
2V16: Roll medical. (19:13)
D: 2V16. (19:15)
767: Go ahead and make the notifications. (19:19)
If I can find it again, I will give you the links to the AUDIO of the POLICE DISPATCHER.
The description the police were given was that this man was an escaped lunatic. The ‘security person(Female)’ said he had a TEC 9MM, and he was waving it around in the store, destroying merchandise.
Here is one article that provides a link to the AUDIO
Yeah, a lying Costco employee would put the store on the hook. Disgusting, but it looks like they are happily complicent in murder.
Oops - meant to ping you to my post on the Police Radio transcript (gives a hint of what the 911 call may have sounded like).
Erik Scott's father complained that in LV you have cops inverstigating cops, reporting to cops. Do they really want to find the truth?
The DISK of the capture files was sent off to LOS ANGELES for FORENSIC EXAMINATION.
(Maybe they are gonna dust it for fingerprints?)
They did not say what form of transportation they were using to send the disk across the desert (possible camel?).
Above all is the question of why couldn't COSTCO have played back the images?
Doesn't their Security camera system allow PLAYBACK? I mean, I know it might cost a little more, but I would think they could afford that option.
I would not be surprised if your scenario is spot on. I agree that no one higher up at Costco likely directed them or even okayed any tape destruction.
I see the outcome of this as:
1. Three cops fired.
2. Costco pays 8 figures to the Scott family.
3. One and maybe all three of the cops charged.
4. The coroner’s inquest this month on the other cop homocide during the drug arrest leads to that cop being fired too.
I think this August inquest will really tell the story. If it is different than recent whitewashes in LV, then we will see things have changed.
There are no Costco’s around where I live, so I have never been in one. Your and other stories make me doubt I ever will.
Certainly a report of a man with a gun acting erratically can be expected to put a cop on edge. However LEOs are supposed to react to real danger and actual acts that they witness not citizens reports. LEOs are supposed to respond to citizens report, evaluate the situation for themselves and act appropriately.
False or misleading reports are a daily occurrence in large metro areas such as LV. If a cop a not cool head enough to not shoot when a man lifts his coat he had better not be on the job.
There is plenty of training available out there to allow a rookie to display his ability to wait until a real danger displays it self before firing his weapon. If LV does not utilize such training they deserve a good raking over the coals.
I mean, nobody died that time.
Kind of a weak analogy.
McDonalds coffee temperature was corporate policy.
Unless it can be shown that the response of the Costco employee to a person with a gun was established corporate policy I dont think your analogy works.
>>Kind of a weak analogy. <<
So sue me. ;)
I just like that one because it demonstrates how a Jury can be manipulated. And often they make decisions that have little to do with actual law, but feelings.
I’ve actually argued that case with people that know the details of the case and firmly believe the Jury was right.
My belief is the laws of physics limit the max temperature of water (depending on altitude) and even the max temp in Death valley (below sea level) is not high enough to put responsibility for being careful with “hot” water on anyone other than the customer. But that’s just me.
Wow. I think I might have to wear my sunglasses into Costco next time. I usually take them off just so I can see. I think I’ll forget and see what happens.
Yep the old woman should have sued the car manufacturer for not installing a cup holder ;)
I'll say it again. SEVENTY-ONE SECONDS.
One witness reported that the cops fired SIX SHOTS, then one of them walked up as he lay dying on the ground and shot the SEVENTH shot. Some witnesses reported he had been shot from the front and the rear.
I would trust the testimony of an experienced gun owner who has the exact same equipment. The police found 12 witnesses (out of 40) who (although not in a position to actually see MR. SCOTT pull a gun, nor were they even looking his direction (very few customers knew why they were being evacuated from the store) stated they saw him pull a gun.
Only the POLICE have even stated that he aimed a gun BACK at them, and prepared to fire.
On any given day, if you take a crowd of say, 40 people, 12 of them will 'witness' to just about anything, for various reasons.
Kiss up to the cops. Get out of a ticket. Got a warrant out for their arrest, and figure that if they go along with the cops, the cops will ignore it.
AND THE BIGGEST REASON for this kind of false testimony, "SOMEONE SAID HE DID, SO IT MUST BE TRUE".
NOTICE: the cops said 12 out of 40 witnesses SAID they saw him pull out a gun.
Ever wonder what the other 28 witnesses SAW, and told police?
Wonder why none of them were qouted in the NEWS?
In one of the original articles the cops were told he had a black, 9mm pistol. The first ting that stock me was how could the Costco person know it was a 9mm? And then, reading about the zippered case - how did they know it was black!? (I’m guessing the Costco employee figures all guns are like in the rap videos.)
The POLICE reported that the medics found a second gun, on the stretcher, after he got to the hospital.
(Much like the bullet found by the medics on JFK's stretcher).
Since no one in his family, nor his girlfriend have denied he had more than one gun on him, It is very possibly true.
This SECOND GUN may be the one that the SEC EMP. saw when Scott was bent over messing with the water bottles.
It is the most logical conclusion, anyway.
So, that employee, or someone PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH GUNS, would be able to make a guess as to what type/caliber it was.
I would not doubt the medics finding a second,third, or fourth gun on him or the stretcher. The police probably put it there to be found.
Do you expect them to?
If this were true, then I expect the videotape (actually, more like video-captures stored on a RW CD) would show that.
If so, IMHO the police would have released the SECURITY footage THAT VERY DAY.
They have in other cases.
That they haven't means they don't want us to see what's on 'tape', or one of the COSTCO SEC EMPLOYEES did try to destroy the proof.
“Since no one in his family, nor his girlfriend have denied he had more than one gun on him, It is very possibly true.”
I haven’t heard any statements from the girlfriend.
I wonder - is it typical for folks to carry one gun in a zippered case/holster, while also wearing one in an open holster? (I would find it hard to believe that an ex military guy with a knowledge of weapons would have a pistol tucked loose into his pants).
Oh and when ordered to “drop” the gun, goes for the one in the zippered case to drop to the ground? (Or if one is to believe the cops - to go for the one in the zippered case to point at them?
Although that whole zippered holster thing bothers me a bit. I’m thinking of those fur-lined cases you put the gun in before it goes in the safe. Are there zippered holsters for concealed carry?
A quick search got me to fanny pack type things. Maybe that’s what they mean by a zippered case/holster?