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Court: Religious N.C. College Can't Have Police
Fox News ^ | August 19, 2010 | AP

Posted on 08/19/2010 4:59:34 PM PDT by nmh

RALEIGH, N.C. – A prestigious North Carolina private college cannot have police officers with the power to arrest suspects and enforce state law because the school is a religious institution, the state Court of Appeals ruled Tuesday.

...

Allowing the school's security officers to carry out laws on behalf of the state violates the U.S. Constitution's prohibition against laws establishing religion by creating "an excessive government entanglement with religion," Judge Jim Wynn wrote in the unanimous opinion.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: christ; christian; christianity; colloege; donutwatch; leo; persecution; police; private; religious
Hmmmm

The police power "is an unconstitutional delegation of 'an important discretionary governmental power' to a religious institution in the context of the First Amendment," Wynn wrote before he left the state bench to join the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last week.

The unanimous ruling means there's no automatic appeal to the state Supreme Court. If an appeal is sought, judges Donna Stroud and Cheri Beasley urged the Supreme Court to consider the case to clarify whether a college or university with a religious affiliation should be allowed to receive the delegated authority if it doesn't seek to impose beliefs or indoctrinate students.

(Is this Bob Jones University that they are talking about?)

1 posted on 08/19/2010 4:59:40 PM PDT by nmh
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To: All
Home come SECULAR Universities and Colleges are allowed to protect themselves and apply the law to criminals?
2 posted on 08/19/2010 5:01:23 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

So no faith based college in america, including Notre Dame, Marquette, tec, can have campus police?

That’s fine, just let all the students carry and conceal.

Problem solved.


3 posted on 08/19/2010 5:03:37 PM PDT by panzerkamphwageneinz (HALLELUJAH)
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To: All

platemaker50

@uhhhhh It’s fun to watch Christians persecuted for once instead of the other way around.+++++evidently you have no clue what a rear Christan is and the attitude one is suppose to carry toward others that claims to be of the faith,any person or persons that would accept persecution of any individual regardless of the reason is morally bankrupt. Basically what these judges have done is left the school wide open to the criminal element.

Thursday, August 19, 2010 at 4:12 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/19/court-religious-nc-college-police/#

Even the nasty LEFT gets it!


4 posted on 08/19/2010 5:04:14 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

Bob Jones is in South Carolina, not NC. It’s Davidson College.


5 posted on 08/19/2010 5:04:45 PM PDT by Campion
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To: nmh

So basically instead of arresting an offender and taking them to the local lockup, they have to detain them at the university, call a local police officer and have him pick up the perp and drive him to the lock up?


6 posted on 08/19/2010 5:04:48 PM PDT by LukeL (Yasser Arafat: "I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize")
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To: Campion

Thanks!

DAvidson College

Davidson College is a private liberal arts college in Davidson, North Carolina. The college has graduated 23 Rhodes Scholars and is consistently ranked in the top ten liberal arts colleges in the country by U.S. News and World Report magazine.[1]

Both the town and college were named after Brigadier General William Lee Davidson, a Revolutionary War commander. The land for the college came from General Davidson’s estate, a large portion of which was donated by his son. The college was established by Presbyterians in 1837 and maintains a loose affiliation with that denomination. According to its Statement of Purpose, “the ties that bind the college to its Presbyterian heritage . . . have remained close and strong” but the dedication of the college “extends beyond the Christian community to the whole of humanity and necessarily includes openness to and respect for the world’s various religious traditions.”[2] Majors are offered in over twenty fields, as are several minors and self-designed interdisciplinary options.

...

According to The Princeton Review, Davidson is ranked among the top twenty colleges nationally for the following categories:

“Best Overall Academic Experience For Undergraduates,”

“Professors Get High Marks (#1),”

“Professors Make Themselves Accessible (#16),”

“Students Study the Most(#10),”

“School Runs Like Butter (#4),

” “Town-Gown Relations are Great (#3),”

“Easiest Campus to Get Around (#3),” and

“Best Quality of Life (#16).” [3]

It’s no wonder the LEFT want them unprotected.


7 posted on 08/19/2010 5:08:30 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

So, THIS is how the government will be attempting to crush private colleges: forbid defense against illegality.

Gee, what parent wouldn’t want to send a child to such a place?


8 posted on 08/19/2010 5:09:37 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spirito Sancto.)
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To: nmh

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

People pay inflated taxes to the police - they have a right to the service.


9 posted on 08/19/2010 5:10:24 PM PDT by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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To: combat_boots

That’s the idea!

Hang the kids out to dry with NO PROTECION and criminals will take care of it.


10 posted on 08/19/2010 5:11:17 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz

“That’s fine, just let all the students carry and conceal.”

Perfect solution. The school can offer a target range and hold training classes for newbies. They’re enrollment would boom with the publicity.


11 posted on 08/19/2010 5:11:44 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Political correctness in America today is a Rip Van Winkle acid trip.)
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To: Tzimisce

oops - didn’t read the whole article - sorry.


12 posted on 08/19/2010 5:12:01 PM PDT by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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To: Tzimisce

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

People pay inflated taxes to the police - they have a right to the service.

BUt it appears that YOUR taxes will ONLY protect kids at SECULAR schools.


13 posted on 08/19/2010 5:13:24 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
They should simply announce that they have decided to embrace islam and implement sharia. They'd probably get a government grant.

BJU is in South Carolina.

14 posted on 08/19/2010 5:13:24 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Zakhor 'et 'asher-`asah lekha `Amaleq baderekh betze'tekhem miMitzrayim.)
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To: nmh

A NC state lawmaker should start impeachment proceedings for these three judges. They obviously either a) are completely ignorant of what the First Amendment means or b) have no desire to uphold their oath of office. Either way, they have to go.


15 posted on 08/19/2010 5:14:02 PM PDT by jhigh
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Well we're doing the next best thing.

Our government is shuttling around a Muslim in Europe and WE PAY FOR IT. Yet, a private religious school doesn't have the right to protect itself.

16 posted on 08/19/2010 5:15:37 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

This is a serious and perhaps ignorant question for me to pose, but what prevents ordinary citizens from detaining a suspect, placing charges against the suspect, convening a Grand Jury, arraigning the suspect, gathering evidence, calling witnesses, holding a trial, and imposing a sentence? (Assume all participants slept at a Holiday Inn the pervious night)


17 posted on 08/19/2010 5:21:02 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: nmh

Huh...? The courts are mad.


18 posted on 08/19/2010 5:23:41 PM PDT by Drango (NO-vember)
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz; nmh

First off, this is a state court decision, so it only applies in NC.

Second, NC is one of the few states that still permits private police forces with arrest powers. Religious and other private schools in other states generally cannot have their own police forces as is.

Outside of public universities “campus police” are no more actual police than mall cops are.


19 posted on 08/19/2010 5:26:39 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and the world laughs at you.)
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To: nmh

A religious college should be granted exactly the same powers with regard to campus law enforcement as a public or private secular school. To do anything else is to discriminate on the basis of religion.


20 posted on 08/19/2010 5:30:16 PM PDT by sphinx
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To: Rodamala
This is a serious and perhaps ignorant question for me to pose, but what prevents ordinary citizens from detaining a suspect, placing charges against the suspect, convening a Grand Jury, arraigning the suspect, gathering evidence, calling witnesses, holding a trial, and imposing a sentence? (Assume all participants slept at a Holiday Inn the pervious night)

The law prevents it. Those citizens would be guilty of a number of crimes, starting with kidnapping. Any trial they held and any sentence they imposed would have no legal force.
21 posted on 08/19/2010 5:40:45 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and the world laughs at you.)
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To: nmh

Good outcome, bad reason. Colleges need security, but need not to be cops upholding the onerous, niggardly and overabundant laws of our modern times. Watchmen, protectors and first responders are all that is needed. Those roles do not mesh well with much of the modern ‘cops’ ethos.


22 posted on 08/19/2010 5:46:54 PM PDT by bvw
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To: nmh
Correct me if i am wrong—but public universities have elected representation who can hold employees accountable. Private schools do not. Why would we want public enforcement without public accountability?
23 posted on 08/19/2010 5:48:24 PM PDT by mrsixpack36
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To: sphinx

“To do anything else is to discriminate on the basis of religion.”

I’ll play devils advocate. I contend that no institution should have police powers if they are not controlled by elected representatives.


24 posted on 08/19/2010 5:49:20 PM PDT by bitterohiogunclinger (Proudly casting a heavy carbon footprint as I clean my guns ---)
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To: jhigh
A NC state lawmaker should start impeachment proceedings for these three judges. They obviously either a) are completely ignorant of what the First Amendment means or b) have no desire to uphold their oath of office. Either way, they have to go.

Maybe you should read the decision before throwing around accusations like that. Those three judges were bound by two prior North Carolina Supreme Court cases.
25 posted on 08/19/2010 5:50:33 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and the world laughs at you.)
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To: The Pack Knight

IOW these judges flunked constitutional law and could not practice law in the real world.


26 posted on 08/19/2010 5:51:48 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: nmh

LeTourneau University in Longview, TX has campus police that are sworn police officers, carry firearms, and have the power to arrest. LeTourneau University is an unapologetic evangelical Christian college. This year again it is ranked highly in U.S. News and World Report as one of America’s best universities.

Of course, here in Texas, we probably have a little different attitude toward guns and justice.


27 posted on 08/19/2010 5:55:39 PM PDT by CFIIIMEIATP737
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To: longtermmemmory
IOW these judges flunked constitutional law and could not practice law in the real world.

Why? Because they followed binding case law established by the State Supreme Court? That's kind of what intermediate appellate judges are supposed to do.
28 posted on 08/19/2010 6:05:47 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and the world laughs at you.)
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To: The Pack Knight

oh... i see. so you just need a badge or a title and you are good to go? hmm?


29 posted on 08/19/2010 6:51:22 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: Rodamala
but what prevents ordinary citizens

The amount of arms at their disposal. They will need more than the state and the will to use them.

30 posted on 08/19/2010 7:29:00 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: nmh

Davidson College is also the alma mater of our late friend Tony Snow.


31 posted on 08/19/2010 7:39:26 PM PDT by csmusaret (A government that can dictate how much water flows into a toilet is a powerful government indeed.)
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To: nmh

Congrats on your ablilty to interpret that. I had to read it several times before I understood your agreement with the poster (which obviously forget its helmet). No wonder they call them liberal arts colleges.


32 posted on 08/19/2010 7:47:24 PM PDT by j_tull (I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.)
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To: csmusaret

“Davidson College is also the alma mater of our late friend Tony Snow.”

I didn’t know that.

I miss him.

He was a treasure.


33 posted on 08/19/2010 7:58:20 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Rodamala
I'd bet you that students aren't allowed to carry any gun. They most likely have a “gun free zone” that criminals don't respect. These NUTS have guns. Universities typically don't.
34 posted on 08/19/2010 8:01:56 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
They'll arrest the CITIZEN for taking down a criminal and charge them with premeditated murder - that wouldn't shock me.
35 posted on 08/19/2010 8:04:13 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: bitterohiogunclinger

I’ll play devils advocate. I contend that no institution should have police powers if they are not controlled by elected representatives.
I suppose that’s fair enough if they are also not subject to the laws those representatives pass, nor taxation. All these bizarre considerations are a product of overreach on the establishment clause. Policing colleges is hardly a step toward establishing a state religion and a good example of what happens when judges stray from original intent and start splitting hairs to promote their own vision of society.


36 posted on 08/19/2010 8:17:32 PM PDT by Old North State (Don't blame me, I voted for Pedro)
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To: The Pack Knight
No judge is ever bound by ANY supreme court case.

Don't spout indefensible stupidity neither you nor anyone who looks at it can defend

Roe V Wade was not testing a new happenstance that had never come up in American jurisprudence before. And it overturned a century of precedence.

Thank you for playing.

Next contestant.

37 posted on 08/19/2010 8:22:46 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: MrEdd
No judge is ever bound by ANY supreme court case.

Don't spout indefensible stupidity neither you nor anyone who looks at it can defend


You must have gotten your understanding of the law from the same place Orly Taitz did. Seriously, the fact that you're allowed to vote while being this ignorant is depressing.
38 posted on 08/19/2010 10:18:34 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and the world laughs at you.)
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To: nmh

“....he left the state bench to join the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last week.”

Doesn’t that say it all right there? The 4th Circuit, FReepers should know, is the one that reversed the jury decision in Maryland against Westboro Baptist Church and the Phelps family.


39 posted on 08/19/2010 10:26:01 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: EDINVA

You are SHARP!

Thanks for reminding us.


40 posted on 08/19/2010 10:42:17 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: CFIIIMEIATP737

Campus cops in Georgia, public or private, have the same powers as those in the locality of the campus; they have the same training and certification requirements.


41 posted on 08/19/2010 10:42:54 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: nmh
Home come SECULAR Universities and Colleges are allowed to protect themselves and apply the law to criminals?

That's going to be the key question on appeal. Colleges with a religious affiliation clearly serve a secular purpose -- they receive scholarship and grant money from federal and state governments, not to mention research grants. In fact, as long as it suits that secular purpose, it is unconstitutional to treat the school differently solely because of its religious affiliation.

42 posted on 08/19/2010 11:56:32 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: The Pack Knight
You must have gotten your understanding of the law from the same place Orly Taitz did.

You must have learned to read from the Evelyn Woodhead sped redding course on Saturday night live, a source that also exhibits your entree capacity for logical thought perfectly.

Unlike you personally, and the poster I was addressing, I gave a specific, concrete example to back my point up. You and he lack the mental capacity to take a look at that specific example and try to refute it. There is every likelihood from your post that you are even capable of understanding the need to refute an argument and dissect an example instead of ignoring one.

Seriously, the fact that you're allowed to vote while being this ignorant is depressing.

Funny you should attempt to bring up ignorance. Certainly one of us is. Let's examine who that would be. The example I gave in the post you responded to was Roe V Wade. Did that overturn a century of judicial precedent as I asserted? What about Kelo V. New London? How about every other piece of judicial activism we have seen in the last 80 years? Were none of those issues things that had been ruled on another way before?

Or are you too stupid to read?

43 posted on 08/20/2010 4:36:07 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: MrEdd
Funny you should attempt to bring up ignorance. Certainly one of us is. Let's examine who that would be. The example I gave in the post you responded to was Roe V Wade. Did that overturn a century of judicial precedent as I asserted? What about Kelo V. New London? How about every other piece of judicial activism we have seen in the last 80 years? Were none of those issues things that had been ruled on another way before?

Had those issues been ruled on by some higher court before? No. Yet you are using those cases as evidence for why the North Carolina Court of Appeals can ignore cases decided by the North Carolina Supreme Court, which is patently absurd.

How much the US Supreme Court (or state supreme courts on issues of state law) is bound by its own prior decisions is the subject of a great deal of argument. The degree to which inferior courts are bound by a Supreme Court's decisions is not.
44 posted on 08/21/2010 12:32:23 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and the world laughs at you.)
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