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Army probes soldiers skipping Christian concert
Yahoo ^ | Aug 20, 2010 | STEVE SZKOTAK

Posted on 08/21/2010 4:32:22 AM PDT by tlb

dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's concert at a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to clean them up.

Col. Thomas Collins said the military shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"..it would be contrary to Army policy,".

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to attendt.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said "That's not what I signed up for."

Christian rock group BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked down," Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers who were punished for not attending.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed events are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the soldiers for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers who refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to proselytize.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith said.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: army; christianity; christians; concert; drivebymedia; evangelization; investigation; pravdamedia
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This sort of thing unchecked will get such shows banned altogether.

And Col. Tom Collins ?

1 posted on 08/21/2010 4:32:25 AM PDT by tlb
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To: tlb

The military never had a problem using such tactics to enforce support for the UFC. You can give to charities who support anti-christian agendas or stand inspection. You’re choice.


2 posted on 08/21/2010 4:42:11 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: tlb

Something tells me that had the concert in question not been Christian-themed but the same thing happened to the soldiers involved, there would be no story at all.


3 posted on 08/21/2010 4:45:41 AM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: tlb
Col. Thomas Collins said the military shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

Dude needs to do some research.

Morality in the Army LOC

Congress was apprehensive about the moral condition of the American army and navy and took steps to see that Christian morality prevailed in both organizations. In the Articles of War, seen below, governing the conduct of the Continental Army (seen above) (adopted, June 30, 1775; revised, September 20, 1776), Congress devoted three of the four articles in the first section to the religious nurture of the troops. Article 2 "earnestly recommended to all officers and soldiers to attend divine services." Punishment was prescribed for those who behaved "indecently or irreverently" in churches, including courts-martial, fines and imprisonments. Chaplains who deserted their troops were to be court-martialed.

4 posted on 08/21/2010 5:08:08 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: pnh102
Exactly. When I was in the basic training if we did not want to go to a particular event that was offered or even church services of our choice on Sundays we got stuck at the barracks cleaning. But that was before trainees were coddled and the Drills didn't have to worry about PC.
5 posted on 08/21/2010 5:10:38 AM PDT by ladyvet (WOLVERINES!!!!!)
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To: tlb; LiteKeeper

This would be a chaplain-sponsored program, and I’m a retired chaplain. There are ZERO chaplains I know of that would ever attempt to make attendance at a religious event mandatory. All of them would know better, and such a thing would be rejected out of hand.

In short, I’m saying that this article isn’t giving all of the story. There is something missing.

This simply wouldn’t be done by the chaplains.


6 posted on 08/21/2010 5:16:54 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: tlb

You know, there are even Christians who would rather clean than listen to that type of music. I wonder if there were some of them in the group that didn’t go!


7 posted on 08/21/2010 5:54:16 AM PDT by freemama
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To: tlb

This would be a chaplain-sponsored program.......

True That! This is simply a company grade officer charlie foxtrot.


8 posted on 08/21/2010 6:00:42 AM PDT by HChampagne (I am not an AARP member and never will be.)
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To: tlb

Why the hell is the CO throwing a “Commanding General’s Spiritual Fitness Concert?”


9 posted on 08/21/2010 6:03:49 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: tlb

I don,t blame anyone for not wanting to go to a christian concert, they are, from what i have seen of them, just a bunch of young entertainers who although may be christian oriented do not know the gospel from fairy tales, and also the music sounds like they are playing for a sex party or something.

I have seen quite a few in Church and did not like any of it, their purpose it seems to me is to live off of the land so to speak, captured Audience,that feels obligated to donate.


10 posted on 08/21/2010 6:10:22 AM PDT by ravenwolf (Just a bit of the long list of proofs)
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To: tlb; All

“”My whole issue was I don’t need to be preached at,””

BarlowGirl is a three-girl band that played out our Youth Conference a few years ago.

They don’t preach at, or to, the audience during their shows.

Thesing their songs, tell what Jesus did for them, and then leave.

I wonder if they had been Muslim, singing the praises of Allah, playing power chords on a Fender Stratocaster, burqas flowing in the nighttime breeze, would this have been a story????????????


11 posted on 08/21/2010 6:15:25 AM PDT by TheRobb7 (BLAMING BUSH NEVER FED A HUNGRY CHILD.)
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To: ravenwolf
and also the music sounds like they are playing for a sex party

How would you know..., hmmm.....

12 posted on 08/21/2010 6:16:29 AM PDT by freebilly (No wonder the left has a boner for Obama. There's CIALIS in soCIALISt....)
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To: xzins

Agreed. This story doesn’t make sense, imho.


13 posted on 08/21/2010 6:18:01 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: ravenwolf
Not all of them.

Despreation Band - Rescue

14 posted on 08/21/2010 6:20:23 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: tlb
99.9% sure this story little more than a reporter exaggerating some disgruntled/attention seeking soldiers b@tching. No commander would purposely do something like this, unless they were trying to get fired.
15 posted on 08/21/2010 6:21:06 AM PDT by Red Dog #1
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To: tlb
Christian rock group,,,

Had I been there, I probably would have declined to attend. I vastly prefer hymns, gospel tunes, oratorios, and other traditional forms of sacred music to "Christian rock."

16 posted on 08/21/2010 6:45:01 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: freemama
You know, there are even Christians who would rather clean than listen to that type of music. I wonder if there were some of them in the group that didn’t go!

I wouldn't have attended either. I get really uncomfortable with having to listen to music that blurs the divide between music and entertainment. Worship isn't entertainment.

17 posted on 08/21/2010 6:58:47 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: tlb; Red Dog #1

Gee...Soldiers complaining about having to run a buffer, clean the showers and put the magazines in the dayroom back on the rack.

This ain’t news...this is Army life.


18 posted on 08/21/2010 7:24:35 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: tlb

When I was on the USS Coral Sea, we had two different shows, one was Wayne Newton, the other was Barbara Mandrell. Not exactly my cup of tea, however, they put on a good show. I appreciated their efforts.


19 posted on 08/21/2010 7:39:34 AM PDT by csvset
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To: tlb

Mandatory fun is part of millitary life. We always joked about it. Don’t want to go to the

If this wasn’t a Christian band, these guys would have no recourse.


20 posted on 08/21/2010 7:50:27 AM PDT by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Well Colonel, who looks a lot like Abe. We want soldiers who are strong in Body, Mind and Spirit. Listen to some of their music on YouTube, you just might like it, and I really think these guys didn’t know what they were missing. Some live music, some pretty girls and maybe a message that there have never heard before. Mans greatest need, is to find out what his greatest need is. This is truly a missed opportunity. Skipping this, to clean the barracks? Never.


21 posted on 08/21/2010 8:09:39 AM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

‘Worship isn’t entertainment.’

Does that mean that Mozart’s Masses aren’t worship or they aren’t entertainment?


22 posted on 08/21/2010 8:39:37 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Does that mean that Mozart’s Masses aren’t worship or they aren’t entertainment?

Not in the New Testament sense. Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 teach that the worship must include a mutual teaching among the believers. We need to avoid the performer-audience relationship in worship.

23 posted on 08/21/2010 8:46:23 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

It always interests me to see who agrees with Michal.


24 posted on 08/21/2010 8:47:54 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: tlb
1. This kind of relig-O-tainment often has nothing to do with the Gospel.

2. The use of military authority to punish those don't believe in such relig-O-tainment is COERCION.

3. "I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"
--Thomas Jefferson





It's a Secular Republic - not a Theocratic Empire.
Read the writing on the wall and deal with it.
25 posted on 08/21/2010 9:07:17 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: LomanBill

See Post 4.


26 posted on 08/21/2010 9:13:05 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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More of the story here: http://www.truth-out.org/troops-punished-after-refusing-attend-evangelical-concert62504
27 posted on 08/21/2010 9:43:04 AM PDT by adamjefferson
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To: trisham; xzins

The publicity is the doing of Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Same guy who led the charge on the Trijicon rifle scopes that had Bible verse references embedded in the s/n.


28 posted on 08/21/2010 9:45:00 AM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Am working on plans for a Knights Templar Community Center next to the Kaaba in Mecca.)
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To: adamjefferson

Isn’t “truth out” as lefty as one can get?


29 posted on 08/21/2010 9:50:15 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
See the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom - about which Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence had to say:
 
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
 
http://www.history1700s.com/etext/html/texts/jefferson/jeff1.txt
 
"The insertion [of Jesus Christ] was rejected by the great majority..."  -- Why?
 
John 14:6
 "Jesus answered I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
NIV
 
If that is the Truth, then shouldn't it be self-evident to Individuals for whom 'ALMIGHTY GOD HATH CREATED THE MIND FREE"?
 
Jefferson and the rest of our American founders evidently believed the self-evident Truth was best perceived via the eyes and FREE mind of the Individual - and not via collective government / military / religionist coercion.

30 posted on 08/21/2010 10:00:57 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

‘Not in the New Testament sense.’

I’m sorry, I do not often hear that a Catholic Mass is not a form of worship.


31 posted on 08/21/2010 10:04:01 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

‘Not in the New Testament sense.’

I’m sorry, I do not often hear that a Catholic Mass is not a form of worship.


32 posted on 08/21/2010 10:04:01 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

‘Not in the New Testament sense.’

I’m sorry, I do not often hear that a Catholic Mass is not a form of worship.


33 posted on 08/21/2010 10:04:01 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Oops!


34 posted on 08/21/2010 10:04:44 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
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To: LomanBill
And yet our Founders wrote what's in post 4. Btw, the site it is located at is the Library of Congress. And Jefferson didn't build this country alone.

Religion and the Congress of the Confederation, 1774-89

The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained an extraordinary number of deeply religious men. The amount of energy that Congress invested in encouraging the practice of religion in the new nation exceeded that expended by any subsequent American national government. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to such activities. This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians.

Gotta go. Have things to do.

35 posted on 08/21/2010 10:07:48 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
WoW?
"God wants insurance, god needs to cover himself..."??
--Roger Waters, "What god wants" - Amused to Death.
 
Twinkle Twinkle, Morning Star
 
Homage to Stanley Kubrick's 2001 - A Space Odyssey.
Sans the Eclipse, of course.
Prometheus, Lucifer,
Morning Star,
Sun
 
WoW
!

No Sale.

36 posted on 08/21/2010 10:08:52 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: DJ MacWoW

>>imposed Christian morality on the armed forces,

Just like the “church” of England?

No Sale.


37 posted on 08/21/2010 10:11:39 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: xzins

I’m not a Chaplain, but I agree...I never saw anything like this in 25 years. At OTS, they did give the choice of going to chapel or staying in the barracks, so most everyone went to the church...and slept. The guys who didn’t go were also able to sleep or do laundry, etc - but most wanted to leave the barracks. But that was OTS - they also measured our underwear to make sure they were folded in 3” x 3” squares...


38 posted on 08/21/2010 10:14:41 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (When the ass brays, don't reply...)
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To: LomanBill
Fortunately you weren't a Founding Father. They did what they did without your approval. And you can't change history. People can lie about it or ignore it but they can't change it.

You may find this interesting.

Proposed Seal for the United States

On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea (left). Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it (right). Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20. Although not accepted these drafts reveal the religious temper of the Revolutionary period. Franklin and Jefferson were among the most theologically liberal of the Founders, yet they used biblical imagery for this important task.


"Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God."

I have work to do. Later.

39 posted on 08/21/2010 10:22:01 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: LomanBill
Just like the “church” of England?

Misrepresentation. The Church of England was a denomination not Christianity in it's purest form. The Founders sponsored no denomination. Only Christianity.

Ta ta.

40 posted on 08/21/2010 10:23:59 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
From your FR homepage:
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." - Thomas Jefferson
 
 
Jefferson swore upon the alter of God eternal hostility to EVERY form of tyranny over the mind of man.
 
 
EVERY form - especially the religionIST kind of tyranny that imposes dogmatic compliance via government coercion - instead of allowing mutual recognition of self-evident Truth by FREE men.
 
Look North, 2 miles...
 
 
Got Morals and Dogma?
 
 
 
 
 

41 posted on 08/21/2010 10:28:51 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: TheRobb7
I wonder if they had been Muslim, singing the praises of Allah, playing power chords on a Fender Stratocaster, burqas flowing in the nighttime breeze, would this have been a story????????????

It would be a huge story.

42 posted on 08/21/2010 10:33:27 AM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: LomanBill

Yeah, that’s why he backed that proposed seal. Like I said, you can’t change history. People can lie about it or ignore it but they can’t change it.


43 posted on 08/21/2010 10:34:25 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: freemama
You know, there are even Christians who would rather clean than listen to that type of music. I wonder if there were some of them in the group that didn’t go!

That was my thought as well. After briefly wondering why (if this report is accurate) up to 50% of these soldiers would decline to attend a Christian concert, I concluded that it very possibly had nothing whatsoever to do with their religious beliefs. I'm a Christian and I dislike most contemporary Christian music. It's likely I would have declined to attend this event as well were I one of the soldiers.

44 posted on 08/21/2010 10:34:39 AM PDT by lonevoice (I can see November from my house!)
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To: freemama

“You know, there are even Christians who would rather clean than listen to that type of music. I wonder if there were some of them in the group that didn’t go!”


I absolutely would have cleaned toilets all day than gone to a so-called concert where so-called Christian rock & roll was being played.


45 posted on 08/21/2010 10:39:00 AM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful)
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To: ravenwolf

I think most so-called “Christian” acts are people who couldn’t make it in the secular music world and so they try the Christian music thing.

Hey, it worked for Katy Perry.


46 posted on 08/21/2010 10:41:46 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: DJ MacWoW
The church of England was "a denomination "?  LOL.   What a load of revisionist bovine excrement.
 
It was the STATE "church".

Meet the New Boss, same as the Old Ba'al
--The Who?
Ba'al being a Hebrew word meaning owner, lord, master, possessor.
 
 
The Religionist TYRANNICAL abuse of the "church" of England, the "church" of Rome before it, and every religionist-state slave-manufacturing hierarchy throughout human history - WERE PRECISELY THE REASON FOR THE 1st AMENDMENT.
 
Is your "faith" so weak that you must coerce others to prop it up?
 
 
You confuse a nation of FREE Christians with a "Christian Nation";  whereas Jefferson and the founders DID NOT:
 
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
 
http://www.history1700s.com/etext/html/texts/jefferson/jeff1.txt
 
"The insertion [of Jesus Christ] was rejected by the great majority..."  

47 posted on 08/21/2010 10:43:20 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: xzins

I’m with you there. I wrote this article off as politically inspired baloney, anti Christianism the moment I read it was news/Yahoo, and saw ‘AP’ in the link.

It’s little details such as those that one needs to hone to know to waste time reading the article or not. I don’t have a lot of time to spend, so I’ve come up with common denominators to use to determine legitimacy of news articles. News/Yahoo, and AP are two that cause me to accelerate to the next piece down the page.


48 posted on 08/21/2010 10:48:30 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, Call 'em what you will. They ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: LomanBill
Repeating the same pap endlessly and resorting to insults does not change the historical record.

Refute that Jefferson backed the seal. Refute the documents in his handwriting held by the Library of Congress. You can't.

49 posted on 08/21/2010 10:48:33 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: dfwgator
I ocasionaly tune in to so-called "christian" radio stations just to see what they're selling. And it's not the Gospel - but rather pacification - in between commercials for the debt industry.
"Hey, go ahead - refi the McMansion and buy those his and hers Cadirac Escapades... you'll be raptured before the ARM explodes.  Consuuuuume!"
 
 
John 2:15-16
 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"
NIV

50 posted on 08/21/2010 10:51:04 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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