Skip to comments.MLB gives Charlie Hustle one-day furlough
Posted on 08/21/2010 9:45:00 AM PDT by ConservativeStatement
Hey, better late than never. John Fay: The Reds have secured permission to honor Pete Rose on the 25th anniversary of him breaking Ty Cobb's all-time hit record.
In an ironic twist, Rose's first official appearance on the field in Cincinnati since his ban from baseball for gambling in 1989 isn't likely to come on the actual anniversary of his greatest achievement as a player. Rose has commitments to Hollywood Casino in Lawrenceburg, Ind., on Sept. 11, which is 25 years to the day he passed Ty Cobb with hit No. 4,192.
The Reds likely will move the celebration to Sept. 12. The club is home from Sept. 10-15. Rose also has commitments to Hollywood Casino on Sept. 10.
(Excerpt) Read more at espn.go.com ...
He’ll get a long and loud ovation.
Let him in. All his betting records showed he bet on himself to win everytime. Even crack addicts get several chances.
As far as I know he never used steroids. Every one of his hits was for real.
How many steroid laden athletes have been inducted into the Hall Of Fame and baseball is worried about a little gambling?
Ended the career of catcher Ray Fosse in a dirty play during an All-Star game(!)for no reason at all. Unless maybe he had bet on the game.....
No one can take away what he accomplished on the field. While baseball looked away at the use of steriods, they want to continue to punish one of the game’s greatest.
Betting on your team to win is not necessarily good. You may go all out to win a game, say overwork your closer, and it could cost you games down the road. Also what about games where Rose didn't bet? Was that a signal that he was going to throw the game?
If it is good enough for Cincinnati, it should be for Cooperstown. Let Pete in!
YIKES! NOT the way to gratitude himself for Baseball HOF inclusion ... otherwise, let him in, if only for his accomplishments on the ballfield but nothing else
We know Rose’s character, he’s deranged. But in a number of years only his stats will be around and he should be in based on that.
Sometimes you just have to hold your nose.
No one can take away what he accomplished on the field. While baseball looked away at the use of steriods, they want to continue to punish one of the games greatest.
Pete Rose broke rules posted in every clubhouse in MLB. Rules agreed upon in collective bargaining by the union and MLB. He is paying the price for blatantly breaking the rules. Rules on steriods... not so much
Fosse did not retire until 1979.
Fosse, btw, was also an All Star in 1971 and went on to win World Series rings with the A's.
Gee, so gambling and casinos are more important to Pete than baseball or his old team? Who’d a thunk it?
Unlike the NFL and NBA Halls of Fame, the Baseball Hall of Fame includes a "good moral character" clause among the qualifications.
Now, granted, that didn't keep Ty Cobb out. But it did keep Joe Jackson out. And it will keep Pete Rose out.
I lived in Cincinnati, saw Pete come up from the farm, and closely followed his career. But the gambling rule...
Gambling will result in lifetime banishment. This includes association with gamblers and betting on games of which the player is not a participant.
...is prominently posted in every clubhouse and it is one of the manager's assigned jobs to make sure everybody is aware of it and fully understands it. Pete's like the corrupt sheriff who got caught stealing from the county.
Charlie Hustle is gonna join Shoeless Joe as the best players in baseball who aren't in the Hall of Fame. There's a certain eclat to that...but it's not like being in Cooperstown.
Personally, as a long-time baseball fan who (full disclosure) works in the game, you can ask me to forgive Pete. But don't ask me to support his candidacy.
Pete Rose was and still is baseball to me. He epitomized the way that the game is supposed to be played.
He was undoubtedly talking about one of them other Ray Fosse guys.
Pete Rose should be inducted into the HOF only after he dies. Wonder how many HOF members would attend the ceremonies if he were allowed to make his induction speech. Rose’s “Big Red Machine” teammate Johnny Bench would probably skip it.
Gotta laugh at then incandescent idiocy of MLB in denying Rose the recognition he deserves.
In then record books at this time are names like Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds, both of whom were juiced up on massive amounts of steroids and HGH. Rose Was banned for betting on the games, but was never accused of nor I believe would he bet against his own team. He was simply to much the competitor to ever do that.
This guy belongs in the Hall of Fame like YESTERDAY and he ought to also get an apology in the light of the double standard which has been applied to him.
You don’t know the game very well. It was a clean shot and entirely appropriate. When a catcher blocks the plate he’s asking for it and in this case he got it.
You obviously don’t know the attitude Rose brought to the game. Winning was the only thing which mattered in any game of which he was a part.
Rose could no more throw a game than the Pope could mug a Nun.
Thanks for laying that out. I went soft there for a minute.
I support Pete for the Hall of Fame...posthumously. Let him in after he has passed. No acceptance speech, but his on the field accomplishments are honored.
However, I was a Reds fan before I moved to Cincy and remain so today.
I say put Pete in the HOF.
Baseball lowered its own standards post-Rose. They were right to ban him then, but now it reeks of hypocrisy. Let him in the front door.
They didn't let Shoeless Joe in after he passed. And, while his career didn't last as long as Pete's, his stats were pretty remarkable themselves.
Good trivia question:
I own the second highest career batting average in the major leagues. Yet, I never won a batting title and I'm not in the Hall of Fame. Who am I?
Gambling strikes at the heart of a sport though. The promise that sports makes the viewers is that the people on the field are pursuing victory for the sake of victory and have no reason to want anything other than victory. Once you open the door to gambling, especially illegal gambling, that promise is broken, now you have the possibility of points shaving, thrown games, and other perversions of the game. All the leagues except the NBA (who have terrible officiating and recently found out most of their officials violate the leagues rather loose gambling rules) have learned the lesson of the Black Sox, keep far away from gambling or risk destruction.
And Pete made his situation even worse with the constant lies. First he didn’t gamble, then he gambled but it never distracted from the game, then he gambled DURING games but never on baseball, then he gambled on baseball but never on games he was involved in, now the current story is he gambled on games he was involved in but always to win. Does anybody actually believe him anymore?
Pete Rose—Don’t get me started! Pete went out there to WIN from the time he was a little kid playing baseball down at Boldface Park. My late husband was a few years ahead of Pete in H.S. and he used to talk about how hard Pete played. He was so small, yet fearless and he was all about WINNING! When you look at what Baseball has become—Drugs, Steroids and so on, betting on his Own Team seems rather small by comparison. As far as I’m concerned, The Baseball Hall of Fame in itself is a JOKE unless and until they put Pete Rose in there! I loved your last line re “Pete could no more throw a game than the Pope could mug a Nun!” Perfect analogy!
I just don’t see that he is any worse than the steroid junkies. Throw them all out and no Hall of Fame for any of them, then.
First off I don’t think anybody that we know did steroids before the vote came up has been voted in. McGwire was the first eligible after things blew up and he’s still out and the voting looks like he’s going to stay out for a long time (he’s not even pulling 25%, and I think you either need 2/3 or 3/4s to get in). I think a couple of guys are in that we found out about later, but nobody that we’ve found out about before they became eligible has been voted in.
Secondly it’s good to keep in mind that for most of the steroid era they weren’t actually against the rules (the MLBPA stood very strong against it during CBA negotiations), and even when they finally became against the rules there was a couple of years there when there was no testing (good old PA again).
And finally, yes gambling is worse that roids. At least the guys on roids are trying to win, and trying all out. With gamblers we just don’t know. Again look at the litany of lies Rose has put out for the last 20 years.
From your artice:
"MythBusters looked into it and found that the ball comes off a corked bat markedly slower, and concluded that the cheaters have only been cheating themselves."
Pete Rose is not talked about as a Hall of Famer for his accomplishments as a manager. I don’t think his misdeeds as a manager should count more than his deeds as a player when it comes to the Hall of Fame.
Taking out a catcher in an exhibition like the All Star game was low class.
Maybe he did have a bet on that game too.
Baseball has handled it right. You can’t have gambling associated with the game by its participants.
FRiend, Pete Rose was the one who was “out of line”. At least — that’s what MLB thinks.
According to my Baseball Encyclopedia, Joe Jackson (.356) is actually 3rd in lifetime batting average, behind Ty Cobb (.367) and Rogers Hornsby (.358).
I don’t know how strong the case against Joe Jackson was. Jackson’s innocence is one of those things people like to cling to, like the belief on the left that the Rosenbergs were innocent. At least with the Rosenbergs we have Stalin’s note to Beria expressing gratitude for the Rosenbergs’ information. I doubt we will ever have the same for Jackson.
Rose bet on how well the team did, perhaps he bet on how well he did, but I don't recall hearing that he ever bet against his team or himself.
McGuire, Sosa, Bonds etc were using steroids to improve their performance, set the personal records. Other major leaguers used steroids just to stay in baseball. A me-me thing.
Last time I checked baseball is still a team sport.
According to the report in 1987 Rose bet 52 times on games that involved his team (that they can prove) and he had a daily gambling habit of between 2 and 10 thousand dollars (depending on which people were asked) and many of those bets were made from dugout phones during games. And that’s just 1987 the investigations found gambling back to at least 1985 when he was player and manager. Even if he never once bet against his team or players, which is pretty hard to believe with that level of gambling, that constant level of gambling must have cost his team. Being more concerned with his bookie than the game is a pretty me-me thing.
How about "2nd highest lifetime BA in the American League"?
Gotta slap my son around for providing me with bum info...
Rose has a contract: Rose was banned and Baseball swept away all the illegal stuff, more that you know.
As someone who played catcher for 45 years .. from Little League, through Babe Ruth league, high school, college, and all degrees of softball .. I wholeheartedly agree with you. A catcher has three choices: set up and block the plate, taking whatever the runner dishes out; move aside and hope that you can make a sweep against the runner to tag him out before he crosses the plate; or move out of the way and allow the run to score.
In 45 years, I never moved out of the way. Some of the hits were worse on the runner than they were on me, if I had time to set up properly. Some of the hits were equal; I blocked the plate and tagged him out, but he blew me off my stance afterwards. And several times, I was run over because the ball wasn't thrown to me in a way that I could field it and set up. Those were the worst.
But I knew what I was doing and made those decisions, and I would never have played another position in either baseball or softball other than catcher.
If it happened in the World Series, that’s one thing, but this was the All-Star Game...it’s no wonder now players think it isn’t worth it to play in it...why take a chance on getting injured in something that ultimately is meaningless.
Pete Rose ... never give up ... never surrender. You deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.
Then they shouldn't play if they can't go all out. Stay at home ... sit on the bench ... take up knitting. That's no different than saying, "Well, we're down 10 runs. What's the sense of playing all out ... we might get hurt in a losing game" or "Heck, the team is in the basement of the league. We don't have a chance to get to the World Series. Might as well just shag it in to keep from getting hurt."
Piffle. If you aren't going to play baseball all out, get off the field.
A winner plays to win, ALL the time and the All Star game is a venue in which the best of the best get to show people WHY they were chosen to play in the All Star Game.
That play perfectly epitomized Pete Rose. Besides Fossi’s injury was a bit overblown since he went on to win the MVP the following year and spent another 10 years playing in the majors.