Skip to comments.Some Maryland stores selling banned dish detergent
Posted on 08/22/2010 10:34:20 PM PDT by smokingfrog
Baltimore - A ban that's designed to protect the Chesapeake Bay from a dangerous pollutant went into effect more than a month ago and you may not even noticed. That ban impacts the detergent we all use in our dishwashers. ABC2 News Investigator Joce Sterman explains what's been cut out of the cleaning product and where we found banned items out for sale.
She's got kids, a career and still has to make time to do those households chores. It's obvious Luthervilles Jenny Atwater is a busy mom with plenty on her plate. She says, I hate unloading the dishwasher and I really hate unloading the dishwasher and seeing the dishes seem not very clean."
But Atwater has noticed thats been happening a lot lately. She tells us, "I do notice there tends to be more stuff left with this detergent, just stuff that normally would have been washed away probably."
The dish detergent she's talking about is phosphate free. Jenny made the switch a few months, and chances are so did you, although you probably didnt even notice. Jenn Aiosa with the Chesapeake Bay Foundation says, "The average consumer doesn't know."
Marylanders may not be aware that automatic dishwasher detergents with phosphorus are now banned in this state and more than a dozen others. The ban is thanks to a law put in place to help get rid of one of the biggest pollutants in the Chesapeake Bay. Aiosa explains, "It's really something that's relatively easy in the grand scheme of things for consumers to do but can have an impact."
The impact is something you should already be seeing on store shelves, but it took awhile to put this plan in place. Dennis Griesing with the American Cleaning Institute says, "It was a significant undertaking."
(Excerpt) Read more at abc2news.com ...
I have almost always used the HE detergent, and have used the amount recommended on the HE bottles. I will try cutting back on the amount as well.
I like being able to wash large things like comforters, etc., but in general, I really dislike the machine.
I have to agree, we like a top loader better overall. We came about the tips on soap usage the hard way. Took us a long time to get it to where it didn't smell. The only thing we really like about the front loader is that it allowed us to put a counter top in over the washer and dryer. Very convenient having a folding table right above the dryer.
Mine is one of the first Kenmore machines, and from what I’ve read on line, there is a design flaw in them which doesn’t allow the machine to drain completely. And you can’t wipe down what you can’t reach, i.e., the outside surface of the drum.
I know - it’s made me use extra chlorine bleach, and rewash stuff - either that or run around in stinky clothes. My husband has threatened to put an old washer in the garage and wash his own work clothes because he works outside all day long and in this heat.... :-O
SSSS I didn't realize the fourth S stands for soap.
My daughter used our new HE machine during a windstorm, and the power went out in the middle of her load. It was out for 9 days, and we couldn’t get the clothes out of the machine because the door locked. Talk about a nasty odor! Yuck!
My stainless steel Whirlpool appliances are rusting! Where do they get their “stainless” steel? Sri Lanka?
Leave the door and even the detergent door open a little. I found mine will start to smell if I close them when it is still wet inside.
I think that is the problem with most HE washers. They are sealed up so tight when the door is closed, they don’t let any air flow.
Exactly so. We've had our HE washer for about 3 years. We've had very little trouble with odor. I use about 1/3 (or less) the recommended amount of detergent, because our clothes simply aren't that dirty and really they need water and agitation most of all. After use, I leave the door open, and if I'm inspired, I dry off the door gasket. I run a load with bleach from time to time, and that also helps keep down any odor development. I've used the refresher cleaning tablets a few times when for one reason or another it started getting smelly. They really help, but they're not cheap and I wouldn't want to rely on them for weekly cleaning.
I've been happy with the HE washer. We're on a septic system, and going to a front loader allowed me to cut way down on the volume of waste water. This also means less energy used in heating the water.
I’ve had mine 5 years now and I have no complaints. Apparently the Maytag Repairman isn’t as lonely as he once was.
Yup! We have her sister, aka The Knee Licker.
Ewww! I never thought of that happening.
Fascinating. I've experienced this when I tried to wash some especially dirty clothes with a bit more detergent. Thanks for the info. I've learned something today (actually two somethings if one considers the weird story about the protest for topless women in San Francisco); I can now call it a day (I wish).
I have a 19 year old Kenmore that’s still working just fine.
“So do I need to now make a run on Sam’s Club to stockpile the dish detergent with the phosphates in it, before Barry The Bastard Boy has it yanked from the shelves at great financial loss to the producers?”
It might be too late.
I (in Georgia) was complaining to my out of state sister about my dishwasher not getting my dishes clean. She suggested that I might be using the phosphate free detergent. I replied I had not changed a thing, still picking up the same old Cascade.
She urged me to get the bottle out and check. After a lot of looking, I finally found the phosphate free notice in small letters right about the IPC.
While shopping for a replacement, I could not find any phosphate dishwashing detergent at ANY store.
If you're talking about the new front-loading ones, then yes, there is a problem with that. It may not be a lack of draining properly, it may actually be that the door remains closed and sealed when not in use and that doesn't allow it to dry out properly, so you get stuff growing that you don't want to have grow. The most common recommendation I hear to fix it is to always leave the door ajar. Problem with that is most laundry rooms simply don't have the room to leave the door open. It's also a problem that many models actually don't allow the door to simply stand ajar, but make the machine so that the door swings wide open when it is not latched.
**make home soap...but I Bet You know that. Recipe.***
I make my own homemade bath soap. Much better than anything I have ever bought!
steer clear of HE washers...
I have had my Kenmore washing machine for well over a year with no problems. I read where running vinegar etc through will destroy the gaskets.
Leaving the door just a bit ajar eliminates any moldy odors- my daughter has had one for several years and has had no problems or odor.
Alls you have to do is go to the hardware store and buy some TSP. Add a table spoon with the detergent in the cup - clean dishes again!
most laundry rooms don’t have the room to leave the door open-
All I do it leave it a bit ajar- no problem with space to do that, no odor, no problems. I much prefer my front loader, but I have never had any problems with it of any kind.
Cleaning out the old garage, I ran across half a case of old freon cannisters... Bet someone somewhere would give me a pretty penny for these!
I expect so. However, as time passes, the demand should decline.
Yes, we have one of those too. It started leaking after having it for only about 4 years. It leaks when I do a small load of laundry on one of the longer cycles.
The Maytag dishwasher we bought had problems right off the bat. After three months, the control panel went out. Fortunately, it was under warranty. Then after about 3 years it started leaking. We tried to troubleshoot the problem, but couldn’t figure it out. Even bought a new pump, but that wasn’t it. We took the pump back to the Maytag store and they charged us $11 to reshelf it.
I will never buy another Maytag again. I’ve been without a dishwasher for quite a few months now. Not sure which brand is the best any more.
That's what happened with our Maytag dishwasher--ruined the tile in the kitchen. It was only 3 years old. Also, our Maytag washing machine leaks on certain cycles. Let me know if you find out a decent brand to buy. We need a new dishwasher and stove.
Is this why my dishwashing gel is all watery?
Maryland “Freak State” PING!
Don't forget the sludge from Blue Plains. Last I heard it could be spread on fields only 25 feet from the water.
It and other regulations and official meddling killed the river I grew up on (a tributary to the Potomac).
Geesh - is this why I’ve had trouble?
Actually, I’ve had trouble for years. I chalked it up to crappy dishwasher. I’m now using the Cascade packets and they seem to be good. Strangely with traditional “crystals” I had more grit left inside my glasses - sometimes surely “dirt” as opposed to the detergent.
But I digress. I think.
“where we found banned items out for sale.”
Great. Now I will go hoard some. Just like REAL lightbulbs.
“Has anything we have ever done to fix perceived pollution ever done any good”
And that is 1 of the problems - PERCEIVED. I am no expert but overall, I fail to see truth to PREMISES such as “global warming 1deg/100 years = bad” and “Chesapeake Bay = threatened”. They are treated as unquestioned Truth.
You, too, gentlemen.
About 50 years ago the grass’s that grew in the river were so think that boats had trouble getting in and out of those tributaries.
Some intelligent expert found a way to spray the grass’s and kill them.
Those grass’s filtered the water and added oxygen to the water, they gave fish and crabs a place to hide and grow and shed.
Today those grass’ are non-existent, and the river is dying.
The oysters in the Potomac are practically non-existent.The crabs are scarce.The water is so badly polluted and contaminated it is unfit to swim in and a grease slick covers the surface in the creeks. The oysters helped cleanse he water and now there are no oysters.
There were hundreds who earned their living in the waters of the Potomac and the Bay and now tyhere are few, and they are barely eking out a living.
The experts were from the Army COrps of Engineers, and they put the chemical in the water in Chaptico Bay, on the Wicomico River.
The destruction of the aquatic vegetation went well beyone Chaptico Bay, into the Wicomico and Potomac and tributaries later on a rising tide.
Crabbing went from being lucrative to nearly nonexistent, and the removal of the vegetation opened up the bottom to predation by schools of Cow-nosed Ray which wiped out the manoe clams in the Wicomico, eliminating another industry, at least in St Mary's County.
The grasses had also dampened wave energy, and their absence was felt in increased erosion of the shore lines and sedimentation rates offshore, which eliminated many of the oyster beds.
That was accompanied by idiotic legislation which was supposed to preserve the 'scenic' beauty of the Rivers, and forbade homeowners from emplacing new seawalls to counter the increased threat to their property from erosion and the river from subsequent sedimentation. That sedimentation did in most oyster beds, and the sweage effluent from increased development around DC has done much of the rest (fecal colliform contamination).
With little to protect many marshy areas, those wetlands succumbed to active erosion as well, and anyone who knows tidewater estuaries knows those wetlands are the rookeries of life in that environment, but also function to capture many of the finer sediments and toxins in the ecosystem. Without them, normal processes failed, nutrients which might have been used up in the marshes went directly into the river, as did sediments.
The combined effects of tampering, and then preservation of the altered (damaged) ecosystem have been disastrous, and so long as the estuaries are managed by the USACoE as flowing inland rivers, there will be no relief for the ecology there.
It might be able to make a comeback in another 50 years if the grasses were reintroduced, but short of that, the entire tidewater basin ecosystem has become little more than a brackish water ditch and will continue to die.
Crabbing: you could walk 100 yards with a dipnet and have a couple dozen crabs of legal size, on some days I'd catch a dozen soft crabs (just shed) and toss the hard crabs. The soft crabs could be sold for three dollars to local restaurants (keep in mind that was the price of a carton of cigarettes then). It would take less than a half hour to catch them. Now, it would take days.
Clamming: The Wicomico river was home to a softer shelled clam known locally as a 'manoe' clam. In St Mary's County, people dredged them for a living. They are gone from the river now, but not from over harvesting. See the post above for details.
Aquatic vegetation: gone.
Fishing: declined to the point there are few commercial fishermen left. Again, from changes in the ecosystem, destruction of spawning areas and the removal of aquatic vegetation, not from overfishing.
Contamination: fecal colliform and other bacteria are abundant enough that in contrast to spending hours in the water in my childhood, most parents won't let their kids go swimming in the water, and those who fall overboard, especially with an open cut or scrape run the risk of a nasty infection.
Google "Pfisteria". See what this little critter can do for you.
I lived on a tributary to the Potomac in my youth, I saw the changes firsthand. The skipjacks are in museums or gone, and most of the surviving bay-built hulls (workboats for crabbing or oystering) are converted to pleasure craft.
As far as fishing goes, it is nothing like it was 50 years ago. Most 'Chesapeake Bay Blue Crabs' come out of Louisiana now.
It takes three yars for a growing oyster to become large enough for sale.
Right now that oyster becomes diseased in that period of time and dies.
There are oysters that frow in 18 months, too soon for the contamination to kill them, but the State refuses to introduce these faster growing oysters. They fear they will take over from the natural oyster that is now dying.If they don’t do something soon there will be neither.
I bow to your knowledge. Interesting info.
But I still question the DEMAND for crabs. I don’t have to tell you it is HUGE here. Noone is as devoted to their particular food as MDers are to crabs. Noone. As a landlubber it just seems to me there are huge demands (our population is much higher, too) that simply can’t be met, leading to “overfishing” and thus to our LA and NC crab-grabs (we just can’t get enough).
As for the other seafood, I’d have no argument because I don’t think any of those are nearly the status of crabs here.
OTOH, whose right is it to tell us what to do or not do? That’s really what it boils down to. And if it means some losses - food, jobs, etc - so be it (yes, I said that). Time marches on and so must society.
Before the aquatic vegetation was killed off, the Crab population was tremendous (as I said, I'd catch a dozen good sized soft crabs in less than a half an hour, tossing the hard crabs out--when I was ten or so-- figure a couple dozen hard crabs, minimum), as were the fish (marketable species) and oysters. Schools of menhaden would change the water to patches of silver evading predator species.
The end of the aquatic vegetation was the change that heralded the demise of the ecosystem there.
The price went up, because there was little to catch.
Populations dropped bacause of the lack of concealment and cover for shedding and higher shallow water wave energy. Similar for fish, only spawning grounds were eroded by the lack of dampened wave energy, and boats which formerly would stay offshore for fear of fouling their props would now come in closer to land, with nothing to dampen the erosive effects fo their wake. Increased turbidity and offshore sedimentation in storm events helped silt in the oyster bars.
The consumer demand remained high, but large numbers of crab were imported from other areas.
I wouldn't eat a raw oyster out of those waters any more, though we did regularly in my youth with no ill effect.
The phosphourous problem, though, stems from related algae blooms (dynoflagellates, actually), which emit a potent neurotoxin which affects people who come in contact with it severely Pfisteria is a nasty little critter, and if you are living where you may come in contact with the water, through recreation or work, it is a concern. Researchers have debated the harmful effects on humans, but the anecdotal material I heard through watermen (people who make their living fishing, oystering, and crabbing) is convincing enough for me. Some people have been severely affected while the PhD's debate it.
Needless to say, it doesn't do the fish any good to be caught in an algae bloom either.
Part of the problem is the sheer volume of effluent from the growth of the Washington DC bedroom communities, which directly relates to another problem we all acknowledge around here--the unbridled growth of the Federal Governement.
It has been my belief that the State wants a river that is pretty to look at, not a functional ecosystem people can make a living off of. When I lived there, watermen were in abundance and we were often looked down upon, despite many of us with early colonial ancestors, because we lived in the sticks.
Now that is eminently desireable property, even if it just has a view of the water and no waterfront, and the selfsame types who looked down on those who lived and made their living there now pay huge sums for houses with piers but remain ignorant of the river their predecessors knew extremely well because their living depended on it.
Thank you for the informative posts. That was interesting about the Army COE and vegetation. Are you saying this occurred only in 1 spot and effectively killed off the entire region? Why did they do that? Was it really just because some people wanted their boats closer or was there something additional?
Try Home Depot.
There may have been other areas where the chemical was used, but Chaptico Bay was notorious for aquatic vegetation fouling boat props, and it was dumped in there.
In a tidewater estuary you have fresh water entering at one end, the other is essentially open to the ocean. More dense (more saline) water at one end effectively traps contaminants in the brackish water in the estuary, which renders the admission of any pollutant more effective than if it went into a flowing river and directly into the ocean where it would disperse. Dispersal rates are slow, and the tributaries to such estuaries are often estauries as well.
The USA CoE had (iirc) taken control of all tidewater areas as navigable waterways. This was about the same time the State of Maryland siezed the Riparian Rights of property owners, even descendents of land grantees living on parts of thsoe land grants.
The Corps' emphasis at the time was on the navigability aspect--being able to move about, not on fisheries. Erie Canal, Mississippi, Potomac below the fall line, it was all the same to them.
While I would like to believe that this was an error in judgement, there were political aspects to eliminating the strenuous objection of watermen to development and channelization projects in the headwaters of the estuary which could be effectively silenced by eliminating their way of life... which cause me to doubt that all aspects of this action were considered with the welfare of the ecosystem in mind.
The damage is done, laws since passed to preserve that, and I doubt it will be undone in my lifetime.
Top loader or front loader?
I’m hanging onto my old washer as long as possible.
BTW, you can buy phosphates to add to your dishwasher detergent.
Front loader. Our old top loader (Amana?) died and we bought a new top loader. It tore our clothes. Returned it and got the Samsung front loader and drier. Love it. Wish we could buy American, but we couldn’t find a product to beat the one we bought. It’s hard to believe it cleans better than any machine we’ve ever had (30 years married) and it uses very little water.
Bought a pair for our daughter, too.
And you said you don’t have the problems with smell or mildew around the seals? And this washer is gentle on your clothing? If so, that sounds interesting.
I just thought of another reason the mildew smell is missing. Our machine has plates made out of silver that release tiny amounts of it into the wash water to kill the mildew.
Here’s a review of one like ours. Maybe not the exact model, but very similar. Reviews are near the bottom of the page.