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The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2013150,00.html ^

Posted on 08/26/2010 2:05:50 PM PDT by chessplayer

Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway — and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

That is the bizarre — and scary — rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants — with no need for a search warrant.

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: bigbrother; buggingdevice; california; cultureofcorruption; donutwatch; fourthamendment; gps; gpstracking; policestate; privacyrights; trackingdevice; warrantlesssearch
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The ACLU will probably support it.
1 posted on 08/26/2010 2:05:50 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

I’ve got motion detectors all over my property.Don’t let me catch you planting any device anywhere.


2 posted on 08/26/2010 2:09:17 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop thinking about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: chessplayer
That's right: you have no reasonable expectation that an agent from the government will not trespass you your property to plant a surveillance device on your vehicle.

Another Bizarro World decision by the Ninth Circus.

3 posted on 08/26/2010 2:11:23 PM PDT by mojito
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To: chessplayer

This would be interesting. If they were following my movements today, they would have trailed me to the grocery and to the school where I pick up my grandkids. It would be ho-hum time for the Feds.


4 posted on 08/26/2010 2:12:12 PM PDT by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: chessplayer

>> the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants — with no need for a search warrant.

It seems, then, that you could electronically sweep your car for broadcasting devices** — and if you find one, it’s yours!

You could remove it from your car and put it on... oh, say, a cop car; wouldn’t that be a hoot. Or a city councilman’s vehicle. Wonder what they’re up to when they’re not spending your dough? :-)

Or just smash it up with a hammer and throw it away. Or take it apart and see what makes it tick, and post pics to the internet.

** I’m sure you can buy a device for detecting “bugs” on the Internet — and if this technique catches on, they’ll become quite popular and readily available.


5 posted on 08/26/2010 2:12:43 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: mojito
That's right: you have no reasonable expectation that an agent from the government will not trespass you your property to plant a surveillance device on your vehicle.

And he has a reasonable expectation to be introduced to Mr. Smith and Mrs. Wesson.

6 posted on 08/26/2010 2:13:01 PM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: chessplayer

For me, the death knell for On*Star was the case where the gov’t used this device to listen to a drug dealer, then used On*Star to track make his deliveries.

This was property that was owned by the criminal, was then used against him (with a court order and Search Warrant); but my view is simple. On*Star violated a trust, thus no vehicle of mine will EVER have that product installed on it.

The instant I hear of a cell phone that is similarily used to monitor my personal conversations and track my movements, I will return to a home phone and forsake the cell phone.


7 posted on 08/26/2010 2:13:46 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: chessplayer

If you are found on my property at night, you will be found there in the morning.


8 posted on 08/26/2010 2:14:10 PM PDT by j_guru
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To: Nervous Tick

You are missing the fun part.

Alert the bomb squad and media of a suspicous package that was installed on your car. Let the media circus begin, and the humiliation of the police department take a black eye in the media and on TV.

Rub their noses in it.


9 posted on 08/26/2010 2:16:28 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: chessplayer

Dude
Heard of maintenance mode on your cell phone. NSA can pinpoint your exact location even when your not using it. 


10 posted on 08/26/2010 2:17:45 PM PDT by popsmoke
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To: chessplayer

Nice thing about having an enclosed garage. It’s part of the house, so intrusion there is a problem for the intruder if he is caught.


11 posted on 08/26/2010 2:17:54 PM PDT by Mr Inviso (ACORN=Arrogant Condescending Obama Ruining Nation)
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To: Hodar

>> Alert the bomb squad and media... Rub their noses in it.

I like the way you think.

And I thought *I* was devious and cunning. I will take a lesson from you. Any more good ideas? :-)


12 posted on 08/26/2010 2:19:17 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: murron

This would be interesting. If they were following my movements today, they would have trailed me to the grocery and to the school where I pick up my grandkids. It would be ho-hum time for the Feds.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about!


13 posted on 08/26/2010 2:22:32 PM PDT by loungitude ( The truth hurts.)
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To: popsmoke

>> NSA can pinpoint your exact location even when your not using it.

Well, technically, they can pinpoint the location of the *cell phone*. Which is not necessarily *your* location.

And actually, *pinpoint* is an exaggeration. They can tell what cell it’s in, which isn’t all that “pinpoint”.

But your point is well taken, anyhow.

The lesson is, don’t do stuff that makes NSA mad! (Or if you must, *steal* a cell phone.)


14 posted on 08/26/2010 2:23:46 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: chessplayer

Is this the end of the Cellphone market?


15 posted on 08/26/2010 2:24:53 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: Mr Inviso

Nice thing about having an enclosed garage. It’s part of the house, so intrusion there is a problem for the intruder if he is caught.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What if you park somewhere in a public place?


16 posted on 08/26/2010 2:24:55 PM PDT by loungitude ( The truth hurts.)
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To: Nervous Tick
Well, if you are evil and so inclined - wire a detonator from this suspicious package to your gas tank, then accuse the police of an assassination attempt on you.

After all, they installed this device; why would you install a detonator to this?

Yup, add some nice ‘framework’ to the mess they opened, and sue the living bejibers our of them. Put some behind bars, and retire to the Hawaiian islands in style.

17 posted on 08/26/2010 2:29:06 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: popsmoke; Hodar; Nervous Tick; Farmer Dean; chessplayer

http://www.thejammerstore.com/

For all you safety needs! Cell Sleeves Faraday Cages and GPS and Cell Jammers.


18 posted on 08/26/2010 2:29:10 PM PDT by King_Corey (www.kingcorey.com)
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To: chessplayer

These things emit a detectable local oscillator signal.

Find it, pull it off, place next to a gps spoofer, have fun sending it to strange locations... :-)


19 posted on 08/26/2010 2:30:20 PM PDT by Bobalu ( "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." ..Moshe Dayan:)
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To: King_Corey

Cell jammer sounds like fun. That could come in handy even if you don’t have a police bug on your undercarriage.


20 posted on 08/26/2010 2:32:47 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: Nervous Tick

The prices seem very reasonable. I shut the phone off and take out the battery when I want it to be OFF.

I like the sleeves, and the multi-jammers. They look cool too.


21 posted on 08/26/2010 2:36:15 PM PDT by King_Corey (www.kingcorey.com)
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To: King_Corey

I like the name of the place, too. “Jammer World”. ROFL!

“Jammers ‘R Us”


22 posted on 08/26/2010 2:38:05 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: Hodar
Home phones, unless the old heavy types with a MECHANICAL disconnect, can be used for round the clock surveilance.

All modern phones are electronic, so the same technology thats used to ring the phone, can also activate the handset mic, or the speakerphone mic.

Most people have multi handset phones, which enables virtually entire house audio surveilance.

Most cell phones today have a GPS unit in them, that even with power to the phone off, the GPS CAN still be powered. The only alternative is taking the battery out. Older phones that don't have GPS, still ping the towers. Unless your in a very rural area, there are usually 3 or more towers that receive your phones ping, enabling the powers that be to triangulate your position, to within a a handful of yards.

Just like a home phone, your cell phone can be activated to send a voice signal while in your pocket. Isn't bluetooth wonderful. I have heard, but can't confirm, that a signal can be sent to turn a phone on remotely.

Got a tollway transponder? You have already tagged your vehicle for the government.

Welcome to the world of Big Brother.

23 posted on 08/26/2010 2:40:32 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: murron
This would be interesting. If they were following my movements today, they would have trailed me to the grocery and to the school where I pick up my grandkids. It would be ho-hum time for the Feds.

All paid for by our taxes... good stuff!

24 posted on 08/26/2010 2:43:38 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: Nervous Tick

Drop it in the mail.


25 posted on 08/26/2010 2:44:50 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: j_guru

>> If you are found on my property at night, you will be found there in the morning.

Funny.


26 posted on 08/26/2010 2:45:06 PM PDT by Gene Eric
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To: Nervous Tick

Put your cell phone in a metalized baggy.


27 posted on 08/26/2010 2:47:07 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: mojito

If you have no reasonable expectation that an agent from the government will not trespass on your property to plant a surveillance device on your vehicle, then there is no reasonable expectation to believe that the government isn’t following the GPS signal from your cell phone. And though a warrant is needed to “legaly” LISTEN to phone conversations, I don’t believe the same applies to GPS pings.


28 posted on 08/26/2010 2:48:14 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Mr Inviso

Agency employees have nothing else to do but spy on U S citizens.


29 posted on 08/26/2010 2:48:46 PM PDT by Ax (Crusades V.9 anyone?)
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To: j_guru

Ha Ha....garage kept....


30 posted on 08/26/2010 2:49:42 PM PDT by geege
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To: loungitude
Yes, if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about!

But YOU posted on FreeRepublic today, you are now a person of suspicious intent.

31 posted on 08/26/2010 2:50:47 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Paladin2

>> Put your cell phone in a metalized baggy.

What if I’m waiting for a call from my Russian “handler”? That’s not gonna work so well.


33 posted on 08/26/2010 2:57:00 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: sfg-18b

Can you cite a source? It does’;t make sense that you can turn on a cell phone remotely if it is off, because by being off the radio isn’t available to to send or receive a signal.


34 posted on 08/26/2010 2:59:25 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: mojito

“That’s right: you have no reasonable expectation that an agent from the government will not trespass you your property to plant a surveillance device on your vehicle.

Another Bizarro World decision by the Ninth Circus.”

But don’t even THINK of taking a picture of a policeman doing their work in public in some states.

So, can I attach a GPS to a police car so I can keep track of where they are? This would be a good way of finding speed traps.

I’d like to hear how “law and order” republicans feel about this vs “tea party” conservatives...


35 posted on 08/26/2010 2:59:25 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: King_Corey; Nervous Tick

•§ 333 (Willful or malicious interference)

“No person shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communications of any station licensed or authorized by or under this chapter or operated by the United States Government.”

The FCC has the authority to enforce this federal statute pursuant to Title 47 CFR §§ 97 (Amateur Radio Service) & 80 (Stations in the Maritime Services); the Agreement Between the United States of America and Canada for the Promotion of Safety on the Great Lakes by Means of Radio; and the International Convention for Safety of Life at Sea, 1974.
Title 47 USC § 302a(a)(1)
•§ 302a(a)(1) (Devices which interfere with radio reception; Regulations)

“The Commission may, consistent with the public interest, convenience, and necessity, make reasonable regulations governing the interference potential of devices which in their operation are capable of emitting radio frequency energy by radiation, conduction, or other means in sufficient degree to cause harmful interference to radio communications.”

The FCC has the authority to enforce this federal statute pursuant to Title 47 CFR §§ 76 (Multichannel Video and Cable Television Service), 15 (Radio Frequency Devices) & 2 (Frequency Allocations and Radio Treaty Matters; General Rules and Regulations); and ITU Radio Regulations.


36 posted on 08/26/2010 3:00:26 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: mountn man

I’m pretty sure that I was before today!


38 posted on 08/26/2010 3:02:49 PM PDT by loungitude ( The truth hurts.)
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To: mountn man; King_Corey

Yeah, I’m aware it’s illegal.


39 posted on 08/26/2010 3:03:08 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: Nervous Tick
"What if I’m waiting for a call from my Russian “handler”? That’s not gonna work so well."

Just go to the old fashioned pre-rranged drop location for instructions wrapped in an old Hope and Change bumper sticker.

40 posted on 08/26/2010 3:03:36 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: MrShoop

Pull the battery.


41 posted on 08/26/2010 3:04:49 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: MrShoop

>> It doesn’t make sense

Yes, and there’s a REASON it doesn’t make sense.

If you know what I mean (and I think you do).


42 posted on 08/26/2010 3:05:23 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: Bobalu

It will probably contain a SIM card. It might be “fun” to put it in a disposable cell phone and start making phone calls to Iran, Libya, or North Korea.


43 posted on 08/26/2010 3:06:05 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: mountn man
"Got a tollway transponder? You have already tagged your vehicle for the government. "

Yep, but I keep it in a metalized baggy except for the occasional use.

44 posted on 08/26/2010 3:07:34 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Nervous Tick
"It seems, then, that you could electronically sweep your car for broadcasting devices** — and if you find one, it’s yours!"

if I did find one I would go find Someone in Code Pink Or Green Peace or ELF and stick it on one of their SUVs.

45 posted on 08/26/2010 3:11:20 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the next one...)
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To: sfg-18b
If not you need to educate yourself on the modern cell phone

Again, I know the possiblity exists; I'm an electrical engineer. I know they CAN. What I do not know is if they HAVE done this. Thus far, as far as I know, this is one line that the justice department has not crossed..... yet.

46 posted on 08/26/2010 3:19:32 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: chessplayer

Umm, this article is incorrect - the Judge and the ruling specifically say that you *can’t* use GPS without a warrant.... see excerpt below or full article here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080604946.html?hpid=topnews

A federal appeals court ruled for the first time Friday that police cannot use a Global Positioning System device to track a person’s movements for an extended time without a warrant, clearing the way for the Supreme Court to decide the privacy impact of the new surveillance technology in products such as cellphones and vehicle-navigation systems.

The decision, by a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, created a split with federal circuit courts in New York and California that have upheld warrantless GPS tracking of a vehicle by law enforcement. Feeding the national debate, a half-dozen state courts have issued conflicting rulings, while police across the country embrace GPS tools in hunting drug dealers, sexual predators and violent criminals.

In striking down the drug conviction of Antoine Jones, former co-owner of a District nightclub called Levels, the D.C. court said the FBI and District police overstepped their authority by tracking his movements round-the-clock for four weeks, placing a GPS monitoring device on his Jeep after an initial warrant had expired.


47 posted on 08/26/2010 3:21:51 PM PDT by easelpad
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To: chessplayer
when i can put one on a cop car... have at it

privacy aside, where does personal property laws come into play if they can tamper with your possessions???

48 posted on 08/26/2010 3:30:36 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Farmer Dean

Are you concealing a still? :-)


49 posted on 08/26/2010 3:31:15 PM PDT by verity
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To: loungitude

I’ve had feds follow me around.

It gets real old real fast.


50 posted on 08/26/2010 3:31:29 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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