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EPA considering ban on lead ammo
The EPA ^

Posted on 08/26/2010 3:38:45 PM PDT by agee

The following is the opening paragraph in favor of rules that would outlaw lead in bullets & sinkers. This is directly from the EPA web site. "As provided in the Toxic Substances Control Act (“TSCA”), Petitioners American Bird Conservancy, Association of Avian Veterinarians, Center for Biological Diversity, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, and Project Gutpile request that the EPA adopt regulations prohibiting the manufacture, processing, and distribution in commerce of lead shot, lead bullets, lead fishing sinkers, and other lead-containing fishing gear, pursuant to TSCA (15 U.S.C. § 2605(a)(2)(A)(i)). Such regulations are needed to protect vulnerable wildlife species from the ongoing threat of lead poisoning, as well as to safeguard human health."

Considering this the opening shot from the left to start the march to restricting ammunition for US shooters. The recent low crime statistics coupled with high firearm sales numbers have blown a whole in the entire gun control mythos. Couple that fact with recent Supreme Court decisions and it's clear that restrictions on firearm sales are going nowhere fast. If they can't get the guns, then they come for the ammunition. Notice that this is an EPA request, no congressional vote required to hogtie US shooters. When Obama says that he isn't coming for your guns, what he really means, he's coming for your ammunition. An empty firearm is useless.

Founding Ideals


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: banglist; epa; gunban; obama

1 posted on 08/26/2010 3:38:47 PM PDT by agee
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To: agee

I will give them all of mine if they think they are man enough to get it.............one magazine at a time.


2 posted on 08/26/2010 3:40:00 PM PDT by shankbear (Al-Qaeda grew while Monica blew)
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To: shankbear

lead is really toxic when going at very fast speeds... supersonic speeds. they say it can kill.


3 posted on 08/26/2010 3:41:32 PM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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To: agee

The EPA wants to ban lead fishing weights also.

One day this crap will be a bad memory. It’s gonna be hell getting there though.


4 posted on 08/26/2010 3:41:42 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Political correctness in America today is a Rip Van Winkle acid trip.)
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To: agee

There’s not a good link.

But in any case, the text is wrong. This does not say that the EPA is requesting this—it says that the EPA is properly and legally handling requests of groups petitioning them.


5 posted on 08/26/2010 3:44:25 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Rebelbase

Yeah, but how many FReepers will provide a well crafted response during the public comment period?

I predict that instead, there will be all kinds of wailing and moaning...especially if it goes through.

Just like always.


6 posted on 08/26/2010 3:46:22 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: agee

Lead ammo considering ban on EPA.


7 posted on 08/26/2010 3:47:42 PM PDT by Psalm 144
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To: All
A more accurate and informative link

BTW, if this is considered within the scope of EPA's role in TSCA, there are far greater implications.

8 posted on 08/26/2010 3:48:22 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: agee

WHY THEY WANT OUR GUNS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73SsNFgBO4

DISARMED GERMAN JEWS AND THE HOLOCAUST!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg9q9sxJFnA

“The beauty of the Second Amendment is that we will never need it until they come to take it away.” Thomas Jefferson

“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.”
Sigmund Freud


9 posted on 08/26/2010 3:49:36 PM PDT by Dick Bachert (The upcoming election is the most important in our lifetimes!!! BE THERE!!!!!!!)
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To: Gondring; agee; shankbear; Ancient Drive; Rebelbase

The EPA perfected this trick under Carol Browner in the Clinton nineties. The usual Big Enviro suspects would take them to court, demanding that they do this or that, then the EPA would “lose” to them, pay their legal fees with a wink and a grin and do as demanded.

It’s an old trick. Quite a few of the local and municipal governments and school districts that “settle” with the ACLU have no intention of fighting them and probably arrange under-the-table to be sued by them.


10 posted on 08/26/2010 3:49:45 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: agee
No. I will not comply. Please proceed to the next step.

/johnny

11 posted on 08/26/2010 3:50:48 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: agee

What you DON’T see is that the ban on lead has already been in place in electronics. Considering that the electronics industry uses less than 3% of the world’s lead consumption in solder, this is attacking a truly insignificant target.

The ramifications? Well, there is only one element known to man that will prevent Tin (Sn) from crystalizing and forming ‘whiskers’ that grow to sized as large as 1/4 inch or longer. What is that magical element, you ask? Why Lead (Pb).

So, after 5-7 years your new Plasma TV will quit working all of a sudden, as will your pacemaker, jets, car computer, microwave oven. Why? Because somewhere inside the electronics a tiny Tin whisker will sprout and shoot in a random direction - possibly just sticking in the air; or possibly shorting against another leg of a chip.

So, while your cell phone may be perfectly functional, a large percentage of them will be rendered inoperable in 5-7 years due to Tin Whiskers.

This effort was lead by the European weenies, and the People’s Republic of California jumped on the bandwagon too. Today, you cannot buy a chip, resistor, capacitor or inductor that has Lead in the solder. There are currently over 2,000 Lead-free solders on the market - none of which work better at making and keeping an electrical connection as good as old fashioned solder - and all will sprout whiskers in 5-7 years and cause a failure.

Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, doesn’t it?


12 posted on 08/26/2010 3:52:39 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: agee

I’m not even sure the barrel on my shotgun is steel compliant?

But, yeah - the wildlife in our Dove fields are all dying of lead poisoning because of the past 75 years of shooting we’ve done out there...
(sarc)

Does this count for bullets that have a lead core, but a copper or steel wash? Because there is only one or two shotgun shell brands in America that are actually 100% copper or steel shot... that I know of?

It seems that least 95% are just copper or steel wash over a lead core.

And the 100% stuff is... what... $25/box versus $8.50 for my AA’s?


13 posted on 08/26/2010 3:53:02 PM PDT by Noamie
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To: agee

They are worried about lead entering the environment? Where do they think lead comes from in the first place?


14 posted on 08/26/2010 3:53:29 PM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: agee

If this gets passed, there are going to be a lot of government employees dying from lead poisoning, me thinks.


15 posted on 08/26/2010 3:54:12 PM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: agee

Appearance:
Small, white to blue-gray metallic shot or granules.
Odor:
Odorless.
Solubility:
Insoluble in water.
Density:
11.34
pH:
No information found.
% Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):
0
Boiling Point:
1740C (3164F)
Melting Point:
327.5C (622F)
Vapor Density (Air=1):
No information found.
Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):
1.77 @ 1000C (1832F)
Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):
No information found.


16 posted on 08/26/2010 3:54:26 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (A blind clock finds a nut at least twice a day.)
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To: sinanju

No, this is not the same thing. This is public comment on a petition.


17 posted on 08/26/2010 3:57:38 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: agee
The ground work for this was laid out by Teddy (the fish) Kennedy about 20 years ago. The ban of lead shot for Federal Migratory birds was his inspiration to go further.
18 posted on 08/26/2010 3:58:25 PM PDT by Deaf Smith
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To: agee

I am working as a lead inspector right now. If you do any renovations to your pre-1978 home you got to worry about lead exposure. This is their end-game, to ban bullets.


19 posted on 08/26/2010 3:59:37 PM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: shankbear
I have a little over 10k rounds stockpiled for my various firearms.

They REALLY don't want me to start "disposing" of my ammo.

20 posted on 08/26/2010 4:02:29 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (III, Alarm and Muster)
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To: Dick Bachert

Libs say what Jefferson said doesn’t matter today. I actually had a relative say that to me. I’ve stopped speaking to him and won’t ever speak to him again. He is the enemy.


21 posted on 08/26/2010 4:04:06 PM PDT by Terry Mross (I)
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To: agee
Øbama is Banning the Bullets. Look who is behind it and what you can do about it ... we really need a lot of folks signing this GOVERNMENT petition and commenting against this move. Thanks.
22 posted on 08/26/2010 4:04:30 PM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag (If you aren't at Obama's Table, you are probably on the MENU! - The Patriot's Flag)
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To: SunTzuWu

Really. The time may be coming when it will become necessary for us to sacrifice a few of them for the greater good of all, especially the children. I mean, who could be against the children?


23 posted on 08/26/2010 4:09:26 PM PDT by Gargantua (Imam Hussein O'Bunga, The Maricone Mecca Macacque)
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To: Dead Corpse

I have a nice supply. I can deliver it rapidly if necessary. It wouldn’t be by UPS or the postal service.


24 posted on 08/26/2010 4:10:47 PM PDT by shankbear (Al-Qaeda grew while Monica blew)
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To: SunTzuWu
They are worried about lead entering the environment? Where do they think lead comes from in the first place?

Probably few of them know that metallic lead (used in shot and bullets; more bioavailable and poses threat even from non-ingestion exposure routes) comes from lead ores like galena (lead sulfide), where the lead is bound up and not as bioavailable.

So what is your point? Are you suggesting that anyone who shoots has to go collect any lead he shoots and complex it, or provide chelating agents to wildlife? ;-)

25 posted on 08/26/2010 4:11:40 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: agee

The institutionalization of “the regulated society” constitutes, and becomes more clearly now, as an assault on “representative government” as the only legitimate vehicle for making law.

We can and we should end this.

How?

1. Reduce every federal agency’s regulation writing powers to mere advice and recommendation to Congress.

2. Require each such advice and recommendation be limited to a single point, and be made as specific, unambiguous and detailed as possible, leaving no gray area as to what the idea would mean when enforced as law.

3. Require Congress to hold Committee hearings and public hearings before the advice is formalized as prospective legislation.

4. Require Congress to hold Committee hearings and public hearings on the formal legislation once it is drafted and before a Committee votes to send it out to the floor.

5. Require 2/3 majority votes, in both houses, to make any such recommendations from such agencies the law.

6. Move all “enforcement” powers to separate divisions of the Justice Department (since it is clearly defined law and not a “regulatory” gray area).

That would make outfits like the EPA, FDA, SEC, IRS etc., “advisory” bodies to Congress and the President but with no power to affect law themselves.

Right now, Congress has delegated YOUR RIGHT to legislation through representative government, in many areas, to “regulatory agencies” (IRS, EPA, etc., etc.) who only need “do there own thing” (their own process of reviews and hearings, write their own legislation [regulation] and then publish it in the Federal Register) where it becomes LAW not by Congressional action, but by default, by Congress simply doing nothing. Yes, Congress can change it, after the fact, or even (more rarely) by making it clear before hand that they will block the regulation.

The problem is that Congressional action IS after the fact and NOT pro-active, intense, complete and concise BEFORE HAND.

Your REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT rights are INTENTIONALLY removed from the process of creating law by regulatory fiat, because REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT denies that the elites know better than everyone else, and it’s messy and it’s full of political debate and it requires compromise and it’s not a sure thing.

Well, in THIS Republic isn’t that what it’s supposed to be in order for something to become law???


26 posted on 08/26/2010 4:12:00 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Hodar

Not a true ban but an effective one, based on tax incentives, right?


27 posted on 08/26/2010 4:12:20 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: agee
The recent low crime statistics coupled with high firearm sales numbers have blown a whole in the entire gun control mythos.

Liberals were WRONG about welfare reform, WRONG about gun control ( it's MORE guns, LESS crime that's the truth) wrong about education, WRONG about the economy -- and everything else. Who's left stupid enough to vote for them?

28 posted on 08/26/2010 4:14:33 PM PDT by GOPJ (TIME Magazine - - a conserve-a-phobe publication.)
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To: agee
The recent low crime statistics coupled with high firearm sales numbers have blown a whole in the entire gun control mythos.

Liberals were WRONG about welfare reform, WRONG about gun control ( the truth? MORE guns equals LESS crime...) wrong about education, WRONG about the economy -- and everything else. Who's left stupid enough to vote for them?

29 posted on 08/26/2010 4:15:34 PM PDT by GOPJ (TIME Magazine - - a conserve-a-phobe publication.)
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To: Gondring

We need to finally get a congress that will end governance by bureaucratic decree. The power to make these decisions should remain with the peoples representatives who are elected.
This amount of power over our freedom, commerce and property should not be delegated to nameless bureaucrats.


30 posted on 08/26/2010 4:16:32 PM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: Gondring
...non-ingestion exposure routes.

Like, passing through the body at high speed?

So what is your point?

Environmentalists are idiots, and the EPA needs to be abolished.

31 posted on 08/26/2010 4:22:50 PM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: All

The link provided is to the EPA’s docket where you can read the request for yourself.

Other Links:
NRA’s Response
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6004

NSSF’s Response
http://www.nssfblog.com/epa-considering-ban-on-traditional-ammunition-take-action-now/

AP Article
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hCramAIeFnoLFi0z49hPQAC6CrPQD9HC84U80


32 posted on 08/26/2010 4:26:19 PM PDT by agee
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To: Oldexpat
We need to finally get a congress that will end governance by bureaucratic decree. The power to make these decisions should remain with the peoples representatives who are elected.

The People have elected representatives who have granted that power. You are exactly right in focusing on the representation of the people...which is the responsibility of the electorate. We need to stop focusing on politicians and focus on the electorate.

33 posted on 08/26/2010 4:29:50 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: agee

Pretty soon, only government and criminals will have lead bullets. How will we be able to tell them apart?


34 posted on 08/26/2010 4:33:15 PM PDT by 353FMG (ISLAM - America's inevitable road to destruction.)
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To: agee

From another site:

ammunition is explicitly excluded from the EPA’s ability to regulate via 15 USC Section 2602

http://law.onecle.com/uscode/15/2602.html

As used in this chapter:

(2)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), the term “chemical substance” means any organic or inorganic substance of a particular molecular identity...
(B) Such term does not include -

(v) any article the sale of which is subject to the tax imposed by section 4181 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 {26 U.S.C. 4181} (determined without regard to any exemptions from such tax provided by section 4182 or 4221 or any other provision of such Code)

And 26 U.S.C. 4181 refers to: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/26/D/32/D/III/4181

There is hereby imposed upon the sale by the manufacturer,
producer, or importer of the following articles a tax equivalent to the specified percent of the price for which so sold:
Articles taxable at 10 percent -
Pistols.
Revolvers.
Articles taxable at 11 percent -
Firearms (other than pistols and revolvers).
Shells, and cartridges.


35 posted on 08/26/2010 4:33:19 PM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
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To: Oldexpat

Agree with you 100%, but it’s gonna take hell to get there. Gonna be a lot of pain both physical and mental before this nonsense gets refined into something worthy.


36 posted on 08/26/2010 4:40:07 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Political correctness in America today is a Rip Van Winkle acid trip.)
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To: Wuli

Wuli, you’re forgetting that Congress likes thing this way—rule by bureaucrats and judges imposes de facto laws that they don’t have to take responsibility for voting on.

By abdicating their authority, they can expand the power of the state without suffering the electoral consequences.


37 posted on 08/26/2010 4:41:14 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: Gondring

Forgive me, I’m getting ahead of myself. According to the script, the lawsuit will come a bit later.


38 posted on 08/26/2010 4:43:02 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: agee

This crap could be stopped right now if the Republicans in congress would inform the EPA that each and every time they try some b.s. like this, they are going to lose 5% of their annual budget when next the Republicans are in charge.

So, 5% for trying to ban lead bullets. 5% for trying to dictate the use of carbon. 5% for being generally obnoxious. 5% for harming American business, based on bad science.

They currently are requesting about $10b for FY 2011. It’s easy to calculate what 20% of that would be. So how about $2b less, EPA? And if you go whining to the press, how about losing another 5%?


39 posted on 08/26/2010 5:25:16 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: sinanju

Democrats are only now talking about overturning Carol Browner’s decision that hydrofracturing for oil/gas isn’t regulated under the Safe Drinking Water Act.


40 posted on 08/26/2010 5:32:20 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: agee

Created by executive order of tricky DICK in 1970. Created by executive order, ended the same way. Saved an annual budget of over $10,000,000 (where the hell does all the other money go?) and freed up 18,000 people that can be put to work cleaning up stuff. Freed up numerous federal office buildings that are now available for hay storage.

Same thoughts as others, we could deliver samples for examination via high speed delivery to:

USEPA Ariel Rios Building (AR)
1200 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.
Washington, DC 20004

USEPA West (EPA West) [Old Customs Building]
1301 Constitution Avenue N.W.
Washington, DC 20004

USEPA East (EPA East) [Old ICC Building]
1201 Constitution Avenue N.W.
Washington, DC 20004

USEPA Ronald Reagan Building (RRB)
1300 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.
Washington, DC 20004


41 posted on 08/26/2010 6:47:29 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half of the population is below average)
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To: Terry Mross

Good for you!

I, too, have replaced all the “progressive/commie-pinko/bedwetting/thumb-sucking/drool-cup filling/morons” once in my life with folks who actually shiv a git that this incredible yet admittedly imperfect experiment in human freedoms is circling the drain and are trying halt the process.

We’re gonna win this fight.


42 posted on 08/26/2010 7:23:18 PM PDT by Dick Bachert (The upcoming election is the most important in our lifetimes!!! BE THERE!!!!!!!)
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To: shankbear

“I will give them all of mine if they think they are man enough to get it.............one magazine at a time.”

The EPA ruling would make lead ammo disappear from stores. Carefully calculated, it’s not the sort of thing you can shoot at.

It will be like Freon 12, there just won’t be any legal sales.


43 posted on 08/26/2010 7:32:25 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: shankbear

Live Free or Die


44 posted on 08/26/2010 8:20:22 PM PDT by the crow (If I don't have a right to play defense, then I'll go on offense. - Enterprise)
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To: Gondring
Are you suggesting that anyone who shoots has to go collect any lead he shoots...

May come to that, just for home-made bullets. There are some stumps hereabouts that must have 50 pounds of lead in 'em, and I rememeber a lot of places that have been shut down to shooting that could be "harvested."

45 posted on 08/27/2010 10:58:03 AM PDT by gundog (Why is it that useful idiots remain idiots long after they've exhausted their usefulness?)
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To: sinanju

“By abdicating their authority, they can expand the power of the state without suffering the electoral consequences.”

Exactly why we need a new majority that will take-away this “abdication” from themselves and their peers and limit all “law” to what elected representatives propose, debate and finally agree on.


46 posted on 08/28/2010 1:53:56 PM PDT by Wuli
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