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Conversation on race? Why we're just not ready
Chicago Tribune ^ | August 26, 2010 | Ta-Nehisi Coates

Posted on 08/27/2010 9:35:10 PM PDT by neverdem

Virginia Sen. Jim Webb recently wrote an op-ed for The Wall Street Journal titled "Diversity and the Myth of White Privilege" that really brought home the foolishness of pining for a "conversation on race." The headline itself was a device meant to drive conservatives to cheering, liberals to howling, and the whole of them to page-clicking and reading. Webb's piece was about affirmative action, and his argument was much more nuanced than the headline — sympathetic to the argument for historical redress for African-Americans, unsympathetic to hazy appeals to diversity, appealing for more discussion of a seemingly invisible class of impoverished whites.

And yet the very terms of debate remained undefined. When we say affirmative action, what, precisely, do we mean? Are we speaking of public institutions? Do we mean any institution, anywhere, at any moment that takes race/ethnicity/gender into consideration? Without a specific definition of affirmative action, we don't have much of a handle on its effects. Has affirmative action built the relatively new, broad black middle class? How much has affirmative action actually affected white workers? How do these effects play out across the spheres of education, contracting and employment? In general, debates about affirmative action shy away from such specifics and instead are used to justify our most elemental feelings.

Webb's column was precipitated by the fracas between the tea party and the NAACP, the final act of which featured President Barack Obama appointee Shirley Sherrod as a woman robbed of specific history. Sherrod's comments were edited to appear that she was advocating racism, when she was doing the opposite. The broader history behind her comments was also excised — the murder of Sherrod's father by a Klan member, her subsequent devotion to a war against domestic terrorists inaugurated by her rifle-toting mother, the sad years of...

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: barackobama; jimwebb; sojournertruth; thomasjefferson
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1 posted on 08/27/2010 9:35:12 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

how about this is the wrong conversation

2 posted on 08/27/2010 9:37:28 PM PDT by dalebert (true hillbilly)
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To: neverdem
I'm ready to have that conversation:

Blacks have messed up their families. They've messed up their schools. They've messed up their communities. They've messed up their entire culture. None of it is my fault. I won't take the blame. I won't apologize. And I won't pussyfoot around it any more. Fix yourselves.

This conversation is over.

3 posted on 08/27/2010 9:40:17 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: neverdem

Ready? The national conversation is all race all the time. It doesn’t really matter what the subject in question is; the ‘rats will make it into a racial issue. It’s the national obsession, and the fixation is only getting worse.

4 posted on 08/27/2010 9:42:58 PM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: dalebert

**how about this is the wrong conversation**

We White folk ain’t allowed to talk about race.. we try and the WHINERS Scream RACIST so... EFF THEm!!

5 posted on 08/27/2010 9:44:53 PM PDT by gwilhelm56 (Enough of Obama's Recovery ... Can I have my Bush Recession Back??)
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To: neverdem
12%-of-the-populace-responsible-for-at-least-50%-of-the-crime ping.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

6 posted on 08/27/2010 9:50:21 PM PDT by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I went to a Christian school in Alabama in 1964. They sprang up all over the state suddenly for some reason.

The liberal solution to the racial discrimination problem has only exacerbated things.

We did not select our parents, or our “color”. God is no respecter of persons.

You are judged on your own actions, not those of others.

Heaven will be populated by the weak, the meek, and the unassuming.

7 posted on 08/27/2010 10:00:29 PM PDT by One Name
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To: ClearCase_guy
I'm ready to have that conversation:

Blacks have messed up their families. They've messed up their schools. They've messed up their communities. They've messed up their entire culture. None of it is my fault. I won't take the blame. I won't apologize. And I won't pussyfoot around it any more. Fix yourselves. This conversation is over.


Too many years of brainwashing in their skulls. Most believe, and are proud of, a lazy, don't care attitude.

The sneering at whites, it's a culture war and it goes on all the time. Music, films, clothes, language, etc.

The basic premise of BLS is that no universally applicable form of law exists, and that the American legal system, having evolved from British common law, is a 'white' structure, racist to the core, that cannot be fairly applied to blacks.

This is the norm for large cities today. Most want entitlement, that's their idea of justice and the result of having been schooled in affirmative action ideology and the 'we wuz slaves' mentality that they will never abandon.

The working guy who gets the hell out of the city at 5pm knows what this 'no universally applicable form of law exists' mentality has done to the cities over the last 25 or so years. Not a pretty picture. I don't know how city cops deal with it, to be honest with you.

They call black conservatives 'sellouts,' traitors and 'Uncle Toms'. That's because the label 'racist' is reserved for whites. All whites. If you are white, you are 'racist'. It is simply their way of saying 'the enemy' in this barely disguised war against whites. Don't act surprised at that language!

The term 'racist' is meant to silence whites and is really about wealth and power. The power to confiscate wealth. This goes far, far beyond paying a bit more in taxes. The left wants total control.

Entitlements don't elevate the status of the poor; it only adds more to the ranks of the poor.

I think we know the ideology that the president and Mr. Holder follow. The media try to look the other way and give them a pass on it.

If you criticize Obama, you're 'racist.' I don't care if Obama is green and purple -- he's still a socialist. Don't call me 'racist,' call me 'anti-socialist.'

If you oppose quotas, you're 'racist.' If you say that there are differences among groups, you're 'racist.' If you want English to be the national language, you're 'racist.' The word 'racist' has become meaningless, used only to stifle conservatives from speaking certain truths. If someone calls you a racist, they are race-baiting. They are being racist. Call them on it.

Racist means white. They call you racist if you are white, and that's all that is meant by it. Ask them why they support a third-world socialist agenda.

Tell them you are against Progressive Democrats, who continually play the race card, deliberately, with nothing but political gain in mind. Tell them you are against Anti-American Americans.

But, you're not going to change anything in the mind of a fool liberal, or the mainstream media or the NAACP.

They are enemies. And this enemy is not interested in listening to logic; they're interested in spouting their propaganda.

From Karl Marx to today, the left has always hated people on the right. The left's utopian vision is only a few more government programs away from reality.

And who stands in the way of such perfection?


Conservatives, with their belief in individuals taking care of themselves, not the state, are the enemy.

It's all about controlling language and twisting the language. Democrats lie, that's what they do. Their propaganda is invalid and they know it's invalid -- that's the nature of propaganda. They won't yield to facts or reason. Leftists lie through their teeth, and then, when you respond with facts they pout and say: 'You're mean! You're intolerant! What happened to civility?'

So when Joe Wilson shouts 'You lie!' at Barack Obama, we can and should respond: 'Representative Wilson was wrong. Obama lies a lot.'

"We must feel comfortable enough with one another, and tolerant enough of each other, to have frank conversations about the racial matters that continue to divide us."
                          -- Eric Holder, Wednesday, February 18, 2009

A true enough statement. We are all Americans. But I give you exhibit 'A'.

President Panther speaks...

Feel comfortable now?


It is hard to compete with a party that gives away the treasury; the greed of the voters is what is driving the Obama cult.
8 posted on 08/27/2010 10:05:18 PM PDT by BobP (The piss-stream media - Never to be watched again in my house)
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To: BobP

Eric Holder says we’re cowards to not have that conversation about race. What exactly does he want to talk about? Does he want us to prostrate ourselves at the feet of himself and Obama, confess for slavery, and sing the reparations rap and give them their money?

There really is a song called “The Reparations Rap”. Among the lyrics are “I want my money, I want my money.......” sung by African-American singers.

9 posted on 08/27/2010 10:16:11 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: neverdem
I strongly believe in reparations- the African-Americans were the ONLY immigrant group to come to America for free. Not only that, for the first 250 years they were here, they had free room and board.

That they suffered grinding, de-humanizing slavery is besides the point- African-Americans need to pay us back for getting their ancestors out of that 3rd World $hithole Continent, and here to America where they're free to wear their pants down to their knees and yak on the cellphone for hours.

10 posted on 08/27/2010 10:17:01 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople
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To: neverdem

The only “we” who isn’t ready are members of the victim community—they won’t be ready until they feel they have somehow been paid back for centuries of prejudice THEY NEVER ACTUALLY ENDURED.

They believe that their particular group—be it women, gays, minorities, whatever—has had to endure centuries of abuse and neglect and unfairness. This is often true.

But they’re like people who get worked up into a frenzy, and argue with you, and when you say, “OK, I see your point, you win,” they KEEP YELLING because they cannot control their emotions. They’re still angry even though they’ve won.

Worse are the members of these groups today, who have been taught to feel like victims because that’s how their leaders can control them. What would Al Sharpton do if his followers believed they didn’t need him, that all they had to do to get their “rights” was...get up in the morning?

We can’t have this stupid “conversation” because one side has nothing to say other than “OK, you’ve got your rights—now what?” and the other side has nothing to say but “I’m still pissed about things done to people I’ve never met!” How can you talk to that?

11 posted on 08/27/2010 10:20:11 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown. -- written by Robert Towne)
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To: neverdem
Seriously, a "conversation" on race is a waste of time. Two places where there's strong racial harmony- sports teams and the military, rely on NOT having conversations on "race", and all pulling together to accomplish a mission.

This hasn't been accomplished with the schools and politics, because the black politicians and school administrators have NOT improved their schools when whites took flight. If you want to improve race relations, make the cities and schools so much better, that whites regret ever leaving and wish they could come back (not gonna happen).

12 posted on 08/27/2010 10:23:06 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople
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To: BobP

I live close to a big city. We are not concerned about a 10 or 12 percent insurgency, should it materialize.

We could be overrun by an organized force, but there are “fatal funnel” choke points where insurgency could well falter.

13 posted on 08/27/2010 10:26:17 PM PDT by One Name
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To: eclecticEel
Ready? The national conversation is all race all the time.

A sorry collection of wankers who have screwed up their own culture yelling in impotent rage and jealousy at other folks who have not so screwed up does not constitute a conversation.

Yes, Barry 0bama, Jeremiah Wright, Al Sharpton, and all your pathetic followers ... I'm talking to YOU!

14 posted on 08/27/2010 10:26:58 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

Nobody owes them a cent. Reperations is ridiculous...those asking for them just want to keep the race issues alive...

15 posted on 08/27/2010 10:30:02 PM PDT by caww
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To: neverdem

It’s already happening. Obama believes in collective salvation, via Rev. Wright and Black Liberation Theology. He is transfering wealth to the African-American community now. His church preached this for decades. They believe that the white man owes it to the black man, and that collective salvation means the white man will pay it back. His policies are putting this in action, today.

I think he knows reparations will not happen on his watch so he has chosen his socialist policies as a pathway now.

For the African-American community they may never wake up to the truth that his policies today may make it impossible for anther African-American to be elected president for another 100 years, because Obama may have pushed too far to the left.

16 posted on 08/27/2010 10:31:37 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Utopia is being foisted on Americans for their own good.-- J. Robert Smith)
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I'm so tired of this. My conversation on race: take care of your kids; teach them right from wrong; make them do their homework; don't let them listen to RAP; curfew them at night;warn them against drugs and bad companions;tell them the world doesn't owe them a living; teach the advantages of chastity; explain to them that, in America, all things are possible for the diligent and the hard-working. Point to the Vietnamese, the Koreans, for that matter the Ghanaians and Togolese who come here.
17 posted on 08/27/2010 10:41:57 PM PDT by Godwin1
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To: The Comedian

You left off a lot of other facts the MSM will not let come to lights as it does not fit the victim narrative they still employ.

18 posted on 08/27/2010 11:05:35 PM PDT by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Brilliant, very well worded. I DITTO your words and thanks.

19 posted on 08/28/2010 12:00:57 AM PDT by annieokie
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To: neverdem
the murder of Sherrod's father by a Klan member

There was no conviction of the suspect while he was alive. It could have been the Klan protecting its own or someone else could have killed her father. Yet, the MSM treats her word as gospel and that's what is so hard to overcome in a dialogue about race. The idea that minorities, particularly blacks, always have the upper hand, always have the moral authority in their corner, regardless of their personal traits or individual moral stature automatically renders a sensible conversation a waste of time.

20 posted on 08/28/2010 12:39:31 AM PDT by TheThinker (Communists: taking over the world one kooky doomsday scenario at a time.)
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