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Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (age discrimination in the tech sector)
Tech Crunch ^ | 1 Sep 2010 | Vivek Wadhwa

Posted on 09/01/2010 8:33:44 AM PDT by a fool in paradise

An interesting paradox in the technology world is that there is both a shortage and a surplus of engineers in the United States. Talk to those working at any Silicon Valley company, and they will tell you how hard it is to find qualified talent. But listen to the heart-wrenching stories of unemployed engineers, and you will realize that there are tens of thousands who can’t get jobs. What gives?

The harsh reality is that in the tech world, companies prefer to hire young, inexperienced, engineers.

And engineering is an “up or out” profession: you either move up the ladder or face unemployment. This is not something that tech executives publicly admit, because they fear being sued for age discrimination, but everyone knows that this is the way things are. Why would any company hire a computer programmer with the wrong skills for a salary of $150,000, when it can hire a fresh graduate—with no skills—for around $60,000?  Even if it spends a month training the younger worker, the company is still far ahead. The young understand new technologies better than the old do, and are like a clean slate: they will rapidly learn the latest coding methods and techniques, and they don’t carry any “technology baggage”.  As well, the older worker likely has a family and needs to leave by 6 pm, whereas the young can pull all-nighters.

At least, that’s how the thinking goes in the tech industry.

(The lines represent the 10th, 50th and 90th percentiles of the sample)

In their book Chips and Change, Professors Clair Brown and Greg Linden, of the University of California, Berkeley, analyzed Bureau of Labor Statistics and census data for the semiconductor industry and found that salaries increased dramatically for engineers during their 30s but that these increases slowed after the age of 40. At greater ages still, salaries started dropping, dependent on the level of education. After 50, the mean salary of engineers was lower—by 17% for those with bachelors degrees, and by 14% for those with masters degrees and PhDs—than the salary of those younger than 50. Curiously, Brown and Linden also found that salary increases for holders of postgraduate degrees were always lower than increases for those with bachelor’s degrees (in other words, even PhD degrees didn’t provide long-term job protection). It’s not much different in the software/internet industry. If anything, things in these fast-moving industries are much worse for older workers.

For tech startups, it usually boils down to cost: most can’t even afford to pay $60K salaries, so they look for motivated, young software developers who will accept minimum wage in return for equity ownership and the opportunity to build their careers. Companies like Zoho can afford to pay market salaries, but can’t find the experienced workers they need. In 2006, Zoho’s CEO, Sridhar Vembu, initiated an experiment to hire 17-year-olds directly out of high school. He found that within two years, the work performance of these recruits was indistinguishable from that of their college-educated peers. Some ended up becoming superstar software developers.

Companies such as Microsoft say that they try to maintain a balance but that it isn’t easy. An old friend, David Vaskevitch, who was Senior Vice-President and Chief Technical Officer at Microsoft, told me in 2008 that he believes that younger workers have more energy and are sometimes more creative. But there is a lot they don’t know and can’t know until they gain experience. So Microsoft aggressively recruits for fresh talent on university campuses and for highly experienced engineers from within the industry, one not at the expense of the other. David acknowledged that the vast majority of new Microsoft employees are young, but said that this is so because older workers tend to go into more senior jobs and there are fewer of those positions to begin with. It was all about hiring the best and brightest, he said; age and nationality are not important.

So whether we like it or not, it’s a tough industry. I know that some techies will take offense at what I have to say, but here is my advice to those whose hair is beginning to grey:

  1. Move up the ladder into management, architecture, or design; switch to sales or product management; or jump ship and become an entrepreneur (old guys have a huge advantage in the startup world). Build skills that are more valuable to your company, and take positions that can’t be filled by entry-level workers.
  2. If you’re going to stay in programming, realize that the deck is stacked against you. Even though you may be highly experienced and wise, employers aren’t willing or able to pay an experienced worker twice or thrice what an entry-level worker earns. Save as much as you can when you’re in your 30s and 40s and be prepared to earn less as you gain experience.
  3. Keep your skills current. This means keeping up-to-date with the latest trends in computing, programming techniques, and languages, and adapting to change. To be writing code for a living when you’re 50, you will need to be a rock-star developer and be able to out-code the new kids on the block.

My advice to managers is to consider the value of the experience that the techies bring. With age frequently come wisdom and abilities to follow direction, mentor, and lead. Older workers also tend to be more pragmatic and loyal, and to know the importance of being team players. And ego and arrogance usually fade with age. During my tech days, I hired several programmers who were over 50. They were the steadiest performers and stayed with me through the most difficult times.

Finally, I don’t know of any university, including the ones I teach at, that tells its engineering students what to expect in the long term or how to manage their technical careers. Perhaps it is time to let students know what lies ahead.

Editor’s note: Guest writer Vivek Wadhwa  is an entrepreneur turned academic. He is a Visiting Scholar at the School of Information at UC-Berkeley, Senior Research Associate at Harvard Law School and Director of Research at the Center for Entrepreneurship and Research Commercialization at Duke University.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; US: California
KEYWORDS: agediscrimination; ageism; computerindustry; cultureofcorruption; discrimination; engineers; h1b1visas; siliconvalley
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1 posted on 09/01/2010 8:33:49 AM PDT by a fool in paradise
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To: a fool in paradise

Wafer fab engineer, uppa 50’s few jobs available for nearly 4 years.

We’re still importing H-1Bs though...


2 posted on 09/01/2010 8:36:24 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 585 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: a fool in paradise

or stay in cobol.


3 posted on 09/01/2010 8:36:39 AM PDT by stylin19a (Never buy a putter until you first get a chance to throw it)
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To: a fool in paradise

If you’re over 40 don’t both applying at google.


4 posted on 09/01/2010 8:38:00 AM PDT by Drango (NO-vember is payback for April 15th)
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To: a fool in paradise

...plus the young worker won’t complain about having to come in on weekends or the size of his bonus check.


5 posted on 09/01/2010 8:38:46 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: a fool in paradise

News flash - it ain’t just in Silicon Valley. Cash is king, and the ‘more mature’ engineer naturally gets more pay. I just ate my second pay cut in three years. At least I still have a job, unlike many.


6 posted on 09/01/2010 8:39:03 AM PDT by tgusa (Investment plan: blued steel, brass, lead, copper)
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To: a fool in paradise

SillyCon Valley is loaded with libs and they kick people over 45 to the kerb. Google is the worst. I have seen arrogant techies get older and then they get a shock.


7 posted on 09/01/2010 8:39:25 AM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: a fool in paradise

They like the younger inexperienced engineers because they can work them like slaves!


8 posted on 09/01/2010 8:39:33 AM PDT by downtownconservative (Imam Obama has now noticed he has no clothes. His response? "That infidel Bush stole my clothes".)
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To: a fool in paradise

“Even if it spends a month training the younger worker, the company is still far ahead.”

Yeah. Cuz an education in perl and java scripting can easily be transformed into in depth knowledge of industiral networking or fimrware in 6 months.

No problem... :)


9 posted on 09/01/2010 8:41:09 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: null and void

Bill Gates needed his lower cost H1B workers. So he could make more money. So he could fund his foundation. So he could lobby the government to tax you more for things like socialized medicine (and outright push for death panels).

I loathe billionaire socialists like Gates and Soros who insist that I’m not paying enough taxes.

They are welcome to their wealth but they slit my throat to get it.


10 posted on 09/01/2010 8:41:09 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I want IMPROVEMENT, not just CHANGE.)
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To: null and void

I have more problem with H1B discrimination. The Indian developers know they can rarely out-code their US counterpart so they get into management or the technical reviewer team to keep us out.


11 posted on 09/01/2010 8:43:31 AM PDT by GunningForTheBuddha ("There is an 'I' in Marxist")
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To: a fool in paradise

Sounds like the accounting profession. Shoosh, hire a pot full, work them to death and then rinse and replace. Nice, especially when you get to hire imports (see India, China). Would this have anything to do with CA financial problems?


12 posted on 09/01/2010 8:43:43 AM PDT by equalitybeforethelaw
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To: null and void

We’re still importing H-1Bs though...

That’s a travesty . .


13 posted on 09/01/2010 8:44:31 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (NO MOS-que AP: It's the "GROUND ZERO MOSQUE")
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To: a fool in paradise

As an “older guy” who was one of those Silicon Valley engineer-manager-executives and took “way out #1” — became entrepreneurial and therefore stayed gainfully employed — let me point out one other thing about aging engineers.

Far too many of them stopped learning, growing, being excited about new technology. Instead, they depend solely on their vast “experience” — and they tend to approach every problem in the same old way, with the same old solutions. They pattern-match each task with what they have done in the past, rather than examining every problem as a new one and selecting the **best** (new or old) technology to solve it.

In other words, they are big, heavy hammers and to them every problem looks like the nails they “used” to pound in with it. So pound they do, oblivious to the fact that THIS newfangled nail has SCREW THREADS on it and a phillips drive slot on top. :-)

This is not only an issue with engineers — it affects professionals of every stripe, from doctors to CPAs to lawyers.


14 posted on 09/01/2010 8:44:33 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: a fool in paradise
In 2006, Zoho’s CEO, Sridhar Vembu, initiated an experiment to hire 17-year-olds directly out of high school. He found that within two years, the work performance of these recruits was indistinguishable from that of their college-educated peers. Some ended up becoming superstar software developers.

Yes, and it is not just tech companies that operate like this. Some of this is due to the "professional" HR people and the exposure to the company for age discrimination lawsuits from older workers. And the higher composite insurance costs that go with an aging workforce.

Judgement and experience have a value to companies that many HR personnel cannot understand. What works, works. I can never remember a HR manager that I met with any operational experience.

15 posted on 09/01/2010 8:45:36 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
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To: tgusa

Hope & Change.


16 posted on 09/01/2010 8:46:02 AM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: tgusa

Hope & Change.


17 posted on 09/01/2010 8:46:07 AM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: a fool in paradise
" Even if it spends a month training the younger worker, the company is still far ahead."

What a load of B.S. I bet some outsourcing H1B pimping company sold them on that fantasy.

18 posted on 09/01/2010 8:46:15 AM PDT by Proud_USA_Republican ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.")
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To: a fool in paradise

One person who works on my team is in their mid 60’s, they are one of the best people in my team.


19 posted on 09/01/2010 8:46:56 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: STONEWALLS

You make up all of your posts, or just that one?


20 posted on 09/01/2010 8:47:34 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: a fool in paradise

Hey, adapt or die. Blue collar workers have had to deal with this sh_t for decades, no reason why white collar workers should be spared (because they’re supposedly “better”). From a mid-30’s system administrator. ;)

The only safe jobs anymore are government jobs.

Adapt or die.

Bring on the flames.


21 posted on 09/01/2010 8:49:41 AM PDT by Weird Tolkienish Figure
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To: a fool in paradise

Young Liberal Workers and Managers HATE and LOATHE people with real world experience and that includes a lot of greybears and greyheads. This is because they hate to have their “reality” shattered by people who know better through experiance and also because they loathe their own parents as they are selfish, childlike demeanor.


22 posted on 09/01/2010 8:49:53 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: a fool in paradise

I don’t know if this is too much of a tangent, but...

We just put in Windows 7 machines. As someone who has been supporting Windows since it was bundled on a few floppies with Aldus Pagemaker, my experience has been that an awful lot was changed for the sake of change. No one likes changing their routine, but it seems this “upgrade” is fundamentally different than previous ones.

Some is good, some is bad, some defies explanation, but my point is that an uncomfortably large portion of my experience just got chucked into the trash heap because it’s no longer relevant - and that, for the most part, is not due to any sort of technical or practical reasons. In fact, some of it has become a hindrance as I waste time trying out what worked well for years only to find that the solution is not only not where it used to be, but is no longer relevant. Now, this is always a part of any upgrade. It just seems to me that this time, it’s more widespread and inexplicable.

If this becomes a trend, then it will severely dilute the value of experience because everyone will be equally baffled. It’s a big bonus for the training industry, however!


23 posted on 09/01/2010 8:50:18 AM PDT by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: a fool in paradise

why hire an old person when you can import an H1B for peanuts and all you have to do is manipulate the requirements and the government never does any follow through to check.


24 posted on 09/01/2010 8:50:48 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: a fool in paradise

bookmark


25 posted on 09/01/2010 8:51:20 AM PDT by GOP Poet (Obama is an OLYMPIC failure.)
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To: Weird Tolkienish Figure

Hire more scab labor and offshore more jobs to import the work through wires instead of shipping a “product” through customs.

It’s all good for business. Right?

People spend tens of thousands of dollars to attend a college. Their performance is based on their own effort. But when the industry lobbies congress to change laws to benefit the corporate heads (not the investors or the employees or the economy), it is a violation of the “trust” that was entered when people first invested in their education.

No one is saying that an industry must “exist” to employ those who trained in it. Here the industry still exists, but crooks like Gates for decades claimed there were not enough “qualified” applicants so the pool had to be “expanded”.


26 posted on 09/01/2010 8:55:48 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I want IMPROVEMENT, not just CHANGE.)
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To: tgusa

Also, young people in a cutting edge field are fresh out of school and have more up-to-date approaches to things ... are more aware of new solutions.

I have noticed this in a lot of fields but especially my doctors. My younger doctors try newer things and appear to be in less of a rut.

Really, it applies to all but a few occupations.


27 posted on 09/01/2010 8:55:59 AM PDT by BunnySlippers (I love BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: GunningForTheBuddha

don’t even get me started on this one......this whole thing has been making my blood boil for the last 8 years......in the 90’s tech was the place to be, there was a sense of security, learning a transferable skill and great pay... now, it’s all about how they can screw us over. And ever deal with an developer over seas? there is a reason they are cheap labor.


28 posted on 09/01/2010 8:58:23 AM PDT by Newton ('No arsenal is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' -Ronald Reagan)
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To: a fool in paradise

The wholesale displacement of over 50 workers in Silicon Valley is really about race-replacement. The older workers (who built the products that built the companies that created the valley) were almost without exception white men.

They have been replaced by low cost (at least initially) Indian and Chinese H1-B workers. Both Tandem and HP hired hundreds of ‘contractors’ from Tata Consulting starting in the early 1990s. These workers were paid a small monthly stipend (something like $1000 a month) by Tata, and a $50,000 bulk payment at the end of their contract, upon return to India.

Tata thus avoided paying millions in payroll taxes, and Social Security for these “contractors”. HP saved $50,000 or more per employee per year.

White Americans who built an industry that provided much of the growth for the American economy were sold out by politicians and greedy management. Carly Fiorina, current Republican hopeful for US Senator is a poster child for this class. Personally, I’d just as soon leave Boxer in there.

The American elite doesn’t like the large, hornry White professional middle class and will continue to find ways to replace us with more docile Indians and Asians. Plus, they like more variety in their lunch restaurants then we can provide.


29 posted on 09/01/2010 8:58:59 AM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: null and void
Early on I managed to find myself the first COBOL programmer on the organization's IBM 360 computer (yes, this is the days when CORE RULED).

In a short period of time I was writing more code, and doing it several times faster than the older, more experienced programmers.

Hmm ~ !?

Was it because I was being paid "entry level" wage, or something else.

Probably not because this was a government agency and I was actually hired into the shop doing this work at a higher wage than those already there.

On the other hand I was willing to come into work at 2 AM to pick up a report identifying errors in the code, and then immediately fixing those problems and recompiling the job.

That always gave me a day's advantage against the competition.

The other thing was I could stay awake for 2 or 3 days at a whack so I could keep "things" in mind about the programs I was working on.

It was great, and then I noticed that as I celebrated my 29th birthday I didn't particularly like showing up at 2 AM, nor did I care for the all-nighters anyway. I also bought a television and found out about the evening news, the morning weather report, and reruns of Star Trek.

Yeah, all those things, and people I know in the programming racket advise me it's still the same old thing, and the guys who do the night stuff, and get up early, and push, push, push, and keep their minds on every single last itty bitty detail of their projects still get the work.

The others move on into other stuff.

We use young men as soldiers for the same reason ~ even with the UAVs ~ the job does its thing on its own schedule, and the individual has to be able to set aside all worldly concerns and focus.

That stuff gets old though.

30 posted on 09/01/2010 9:02:45 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: a fool in paradise

You may have a point with H1B’s, but it’s a larger problem of
lobbying. If we the public elect these boneheads then don’t we get what we deserve.

Otherwise if your skills are outdated or you’re asking too much in wages, it’s your own problem, I’m sorry to say. Everybody competes... except for government workers of course. Their jobs are absolutely secure.

Like I said, blue collar workers have had to deal with this for decades now, so we should protect white collar workers because they’re “better”?

In short, I have no sympathy for whining. DEAL.


31 posted on 09/01/2010 9:03:02 AM PDT by Weird Tolkienish Figure
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To: Weird Tolkienish Figure

Never hire a union man then.

DEAL


32 posted on 09/01/2010 9:04:36 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I want IMPROVEMENT, not just CHANGE.)
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To: Drango

There’s another reason for not hiring people over 40. State disability insurance is higher than hell for those over 40. Companies know this and use it to their advantage. For instance, in Oregon, disability insurance for someone in their 20’s could cost about $2,000.00 a year. For someone over 50, it could cost around $10,000.00 a year. Medical insurance is higher also for those over 40.


33 posted on 09/01/2010 9:05:29 AM PDT by RC2 (Remember who we are. "I am America")
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To: Jack Black

Excuse my spelling. “hornry” should be “ornery”, as in: stubborn, individualistic, unwilling to be subservient.


34 posted on 09/01/2010 9:06:07 AM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: muawiyah

Most people work an “8 hour day” If you are working 22 hour days for 3 days at a time, then you are being worked to death.

Just because young people have energy and some salesmen do cocaine is no reason to make it the “norm”.

Everyone works on “spec(ulation)” in some industries as well (you do the first couple of jobs for “free” to see if it works out).

It’s exploitation. Nothing but.


35 posted on 09/01/2010 9:06:49 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (I want IMPROVEMENT, not just CHANGE.)
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To: Nervous Tick

>>>they tend to approach every problem in the same old way, with the same old solutions.

I agree. It works in the software area in spades. There, some comment that a programmer can only tolerate 3 language changes before he/she refuses to change again.


36 posted on 09/01/2010 9:08:11 AM PDT by Hop A Long Cassidy
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To: a fool in paradise
And engineering is an “up or out” profession: you either move up the ladder or face unemployment. or start your own business if you are not a cry baby.
37 posted on 09/01/2010 9:08:11 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: a fool in paradise
And engineering is an “up or out” profession: you either move up the ladder or face unemployment. or start your own business if you are not a cry baby.
38 posted on 09/01/2010 9:08:22 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: Weird Tolkienish Figure
From a mid-30’s system administrator.

If you live long enough, you'll understand how it all works.

39 posted on 09/01/2010 9:09:58 AM PDT by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: GraceG
One of our best guys worked until he was 90. He regularly roller skated and had a quite a bit younger "trophy wife".

Now, what did he do to keep up with technology and programming? Well, he was a bright guy and he read computer magazines, studied the technology, came into work early, left late, and would have used viagra if it'd been available ~ if he'd needed it.

One day he decided he needed to learn C ~ before C was popular ~ and he did. Then C+, then "object oriented programming", then a background program you needed to know to manage the overhyped relational data base programming systems, and so on.

He just kept learning this stuff and staying ahead, and they kept him around because he was AHEAD of the curve, not because he was good. After all as you get older you start making mistakes, and that trend continues as your vision deteriorates, but if you stay ahead, "they" don't know about your mistakes.

40 posted on 09/01/2010 9:11:29 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Glenn

What, you get outdated skills and still demand huge salaries and spend all day whining on a forum that life is unfair?

I think I’m catching on. ;)


41 posted on 09/01/2010 9:13:25 AM PDT by Weird Tolkienish Figure
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To: a fool in paradise

I don’t think of the silicon valley/microsoft programming warehouses as a real place of employment for real engineers.


42 posted on 09/01/2010 9:14:21 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: downtownconservative
Yup, this article tells the truth, my programming job was “eliminated” when I turned 60, lol, I was by far the best programmer the company had. But management did not like me because they were incompetent and I wasn't. They management and all the youngsters they hired COULD NOT WRITE GOOD CLEAN CODE. I'd spend a little longer writing 50 or 100 lines of code that did better then the 400 or 600 lines the others produced. But I got the boot, I knew it was coming so for grins I ran tools that test code for complexity (read maintainability) on my stuff and the coder management thought was the best. Most of my stuff came in at under 20, lots under 10 and a few routines in the middle 20's. Management's favorite was pretty much all over 100 (untestable), some pushing 200 (unmainatainable). I am willing to bet dollars to donuts they are still fighting that code today.

Two, three thousand line routines? nested 6, 7, 8 time deep? And that's good code? Not in my world. If I had EVER, EVER written any thing like that I would have turned off my computer and gone to get drunk.

43 posted on 09/01/2010 9:17:34 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: a fool in paradise

I have seen the same in engineering and construction outfits. One company in Houston, a big name in the energy industry, let go of a lot of senior engineers, then ran ads for engineers with 0-2 years experience. They had the newbies copy much of the work of the old engineers, yet - all they did was copy. Cookie cutter engineering, touted as part of their “quality” program. Of course when it gets out to the field there was a LOT of expensive re-work.

The “quality” program had a lot of nifty slogan signs, one of which was:
1. Define the requirement
2. Plan the work
3. Work the plan.

A lot of the newbies could not get past step 1. Besides, engineering was just a stepping stone to upper management. The ticket puncher mentality was not encouraged, it was expected.


44 posted on 09/01/2010 9:17:39 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (FUBO! I salute you with the soles of my shoes!)
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To: a fool in paradise
There are some "problems" that require you to keep everything in mind for a long time. Sleep interferes with the process.

Programming, at whatever level, has always taken longer to work through than normal biological schedules allow ~ so those who can do it get the work.

You can't replace this with a team of people.

45 posted on 09/01/2010 9:18:18 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: a fool in paradise

¡ SV Bump !


46 posted on 09/01/2010 9:19:55 AM PDT by ßuddaßudd (7 days - 7 ways Guero >>> with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona.....)
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To: Weird Tolkienish Figure
you get outdated skills and still demand huge salaries

My certs are current, Sonny. I expect the prevailing wage for people with my skill set. Being nearly 58 is my only sin.

As I said, you will face it some day if you live long enough.

47 posted on 09/01/2010 9:21:03 AM PDT by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: a fool in paradise

I am 53. I just started at hardware startup 1 week ago. I am working 60 hour weeks for a few reasons. I am getting over 3% of the company stock. I aw unemployed 6 months. I had to take a 15% paycut. However, 15% is far better than zero income. I willingly signed up for this gamble, ane it is the classic silicon valley gamble. Stock vs lower pay and long hours. What is interesting is the experienced old fart with the same old tool set is out performing thf youngster 5 to 1 in production of code and documentation. Its called working smarter. Fewer mistakes and knowing what the documentation has to contain. Also IKl knew what I was signing up for.


48 posted on 09/01/2010 9:25:05 AM PDT by fremont_steve
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To: a fool in paradise

I am 53. I just started at hardware startup 1 week ago. I am working 60 hour weeks for a few reasons. I am getting over 3% of the company stock. I aw unemployed 6 months. I had to take a 15% paycut. However, 15% is far better than zero income. I willingly signed up for this gamble, ane it is the classic silicon valley gamble. Stock vs lower pay and long hours. What is interesting is the experienced old fart with the same old tool set is out performing thf youngster 5 to 1 in production of code and documentation. Its called working smarter. Fewer mistakes and knowing what the documentation has to contain. Also IKl knew what I was signing up for.


49 posted on 09/01/2010 9:25:05 AM PDT by fremont_steve
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To: Glenn

Welp obviously there’s no/little demand for your skill at your payrate. I’ve already been there, I moved to my current city with barely the change in my pocket and worked my way up to my current position. I had to adapt and “think outside the box” and I certainly didn’t spend all day whining in a forum. “Woe is me, woe is me.”

Time for a change.

Or go for a government job, they are almost entirely secure.

I’m just not a fan of self-pity, sorry. And I speak from experience as someone who had that mentality for too long.

Everyone competes for jobs. Including you.

So you have to deal with it.


50 posted on 09/01/2010 9:28:22 AM PDT by Weird Tolkienish Figure
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