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Why won't NRA give proper credit in McDonald case?
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 31 August, 2010 | David Codrea

Posted on 09/01/2010 7:48:29 PM PDT by marktwain

"What is the NRA thinking?" Tom Gresham asked on last Sunday's Gun Talk Radio Show.

"You know, I've had some problems with NRA in the past," he explained, "but when you start taking credit for what other people are doing, that's over the line."

Tom's guest was Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb, and they were discussing "Victory in Chicago" by NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris Cox, a recapping of the McDonald v Chicago case that resulted in a Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment applies not just to the national government, but also to state and local ones.

So what was the problem?

McDonald wasn't NRA's case. It was funded by the Second Amendment Foundation. Nowhere in Cox's piece did he acknowledge that, nor mention lead attorney Alan Gura.

He's repeating a deliberate and confusing point about consolidation that I called him out on when he made the same claim in a July 2010 GUNS & AMMO column--while the cases were consolidated in the Seventh Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, they were separated at the Supreme Court level and petitioned individually--and SCOTUS chose to hear SAF's case, not NRA's.

At the time, NRA apologists dismissed the distinction as "nit picking." Excuses were made about Cox not being a lawyer, so we shouldn't expect him to be so precise. It was even suggested that the column was ghost-written by a staffer.

Perhaps. But he--or they--just did it again. There's no question that this tack is calculated.

Especially when you consider a long history of the Association claiming sole credit for joint ventures. I've called them on it many times in the past, including cases involving New Orleans gun confiscations and the San Francisco handgun ban (be sure and check internal links for additional observed incidents).

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; codrea; examiner; mcdonald; nra; saf
The NRA has a long history of taking credit for work started, even mostly completed, by others. It seems that local activists often start something, do most of the work, then the NRA steps in and helps a little at the end. Ronald Reagan said that it is amazing what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit.

Worse is when the NRA steps in at the last minute and tells local activists how it *must* be done, including compromises that always seem to work against what the local activists were trying to do. I have read a number of stories where the NRA stepped in and made things worse. I don't have personal knowledge of all of those, but I have personally seen the NRA leadership act in less than honorable fashion. When you have tens of millions of dollars at stake, people have great temptations to do dishonorable things.

1 posted on 09/01/2010 7:48:36 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain; mylife; davetex; Clint N. Suhks
We were listening to this GunTalk BANG!
2 posted on 09/01/2010 7:53:27 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: marktwain

Speaking of the NRA, why in the heck are they not endorsing Sharron Angle?


3 posted on 09/01/2010 7:53:39 PM PDT by Friendofgeorge ( PALIN / HOLTZ 2012 If you vote Democrat you support infanticide)
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To: marktwain

NRA is about money and power...


4 posted on 09/01/2010 7:55:28 PM PDT by dalebert (true hillbilly)
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To: Friendofgeorge

At least they’re not backing reid.


5 posted on 09/01/2010 8:02:49 PM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: marktwain
We really need to lean on the NRA, it's time they listened to us "little people" who pay their bills.

I think a cut-up membership card sent in would be a start. As much as I love American Rifleman, I can do without it until they decide to be responsible to the membership.

6 posted on 09/01/2010 8:16:41 PM PDT by brushcop (CW4 Matthew Lourey CW2 Joshua Scott/ Kiowa pilots KIA Iraq '05. Thank you for our son's life.)
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To: Friendofgeorge
why in the heck are they not endorsing Sharron Angle?

That's a good question. A better one is "Has the NRA given any money at all to Senator Reids Senatorial campaign?"

7 posted on 09/01/2010 8:18:24 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: marktwain

Alan squared (Gura and Gottlieb) along with Dick Heller, Otis McDonald, Colleen and David Lawson are the reason these cases were won.

I’ve had the pleasure of meeting both all of these people with the exception of Mr. Heller. It has been a pleasure to have met such patriots and fighters for their and my 2nd Amendment rights. The NRA should give them and anyone else involved directly in the case credit.

I remember the NRA didn’t want a Supreme Court case, they were waiting around for the perfect case that was very unlikely to come.


8 posted on 09/01/2010 8:26:25 PM PDT by Steelers6
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To: marktwain

Alan squared (Gura and Gottlieb) along with Dick Heller, Otis McDonald, Colleen and David Lawson are the reason these cases were won.

I’ve had the pleasure of meeting both all of these people with the exception of Mr. Heller. It has been a pleasure to have met such patriots and fighters for their and my 2nd Amendment rights. The NRA should give them and anyone else involved directly in the case credit.

I remember the NRA didn’t want a Supreme Court case, they were waiting around for the perfect case that was very unlikely to come.


9 posted on 09/01/2010 8:26:25 PM PDT by Steelers6
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To: Eagles6
At least they’re not backing reid

They are backing reid, and has upset many members. The NRA got something, I should search FR history for the thread, but indeed they did endorse him. Personal acquaintances confirm their canceled membership over this. National Gun Owners club has been a suggested alternative.

10 posted on 09/01/2010 8:42:44 PM PDT by existtoexcel
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To: Eagles6

“At least they’re not backing reid”

They gave $5000 to the Harry Reid campaign and $0 to the Sharron Angle campaign. The NRA is giving me a severe case of heart burn.


11 posted on 09/01/2010 8:50:27 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: existtoexcel

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=14170


12 posted on 09/01/2010 8:57:26 PM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: Parley Baer

See post #12. They are not backing him now at any rate and yes, they give me indigestion on a regular basis.


13 posted on 09/01/2010 8:59:11 PM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

Chris Cox is the one who almost endorsed Hairy Screed in Nevada because he probably would win.

He should be thrown out. I’m sure my snail-mail letter to him, threatening to quit the NRA after 25 years, made the difference. /self-importance...


14 posted on 09/01/2010 9:15:55 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (Palin: Obama lacks 'the cojones' to tackle immigration! (Palin/Cheney 2012)
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To: marktwain
Oh, Oh!!! Now you did it. The NRA boosters are gonna call you nasty names now for daring to question anything about their beloved association. Get ready for it in ... 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...2 ...

It's about

★ FREEDOM!★

★ Estimated Value – PRICELESS! ★

15 posted on 09/01/2010 10:04:13 PM PDT by Neil E. Wright (An OATH is FOREVER OathKeeper III We are EVERYWHERE)
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To: dalebert

Right on! The NRA has been taken over by the Ruling Class! Time to cut them off like the RNC.


16 posted on 09/02/2010 2:35:57 AM PDT by SubMareener (Become a monthly donor! Free FreeRepublic.com from Quarterly FReepathons!)
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To: marktwain

Because Tom didn’t know what he’s talking about and I sent him an email to explain it. He was whining the NRA didn’t give credit to the SAF in their magazine. Well, Tom, grow up. It’s their magazine.

The reality is the SAF did it first with their first press release. Here’s a copy of the release FROM THEIR WEBSITE.
THE SAF DIDN’T MENTION THE NRA.

MCDONALD VICTORY MAKES THIS 4TH OF JULY REALLY WORTH CELEBRATING, SAYS SAF
For Immediate Release: 7/2/2010
BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation’s landmark victory in McDonald v. City of Chicago, which incorporates the Second Amendment to the states, makes this weekend’s 4th of July “really worth celebrating,” said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb.

“I cannot think of a more auspicious moment for Americans to celebrate freedom, liberty and America’s birthday than on the heels of a Supreme Court ruling that underscores what those terms are all about,” said Gottlieb. “The right to keep and bear arms has long set our country apart from other nations, and has been the foundation upon which our other civil rights have remained in existence.

“Who knows where this nation might have been today,” he continued, “if we had not had the means to resist tyranny at Lexington and Concord? America may get a bad rap for our so-called ‘gun culture,’ but it is a fair question to ask our critics around the world where they would be today if America had not twice come to their rescue, and for that, America needs never to apologize.

“Armed citizens today carry on in the tradition of our self-reliant ancestors,” Gottlieb added. “We are the true first responders, defending our homes, families and family-owned businesses, and now our individual right to keep and bear arms in every corner of this greatest nation has been affirmed by the Supreme Court.

“We’re particularly proud to be at the center of this historic victory, along with our friends at the Illinois State Rifle Association and, of course, Otis McDonald, Adam Orlov and David and Colleen Lawson,” Gottlieb stated.

“Lately,” he concluded, “some politicians and their gun prohibitionist supporters have suggested repealing the Second Amendment, or adopting restrictive laws and rules that would regulate this fundamental civil right out of practical existence. If you want to see real fireworks, this weekend or anytime, you just go ahead and try. A move that foolish would ignite political and legal fireworks that would make this weekend’s shows seem bland by comparison!”

The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers and an amicus brief and fund for the Emerson case holding the Second Amendment as an individual right.

-END-

The SAF started this crybaby hissy fit. Now it’s time for some gun owners to grow up.


17 posted on 09/02/2010 4:16:55 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: Friendofgeorge

Majority Leader Chuckie Schumer. If that happens, you would ask why the NRA didn’t stop it.


18 posted on 09/02/2010 4:18:44 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: Steelers6

The NRA stopped Parker because that was before Alito and Roberts. Robert Levy didn’t care if he won or not or he didn’t anticipate the fact leftist Justices can’t read.

After Alito and Roberts, the Heller case became the perfect case except the Gun Owners of America wanted the Narrow View. The Narrow View won and we’re stuck sueing on individual cases. The goa still hasn’t sued a single city or state. Thanks for nothing, goa.


19 posted on 09/02/2010 4:23:10 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: marktwain; All

The NRA is about money and power more than defending the 2A.

In doubt? You need to watch this from start to finish:

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/07/26/pro-gun-dems-may-get-a-boost/


20 posted on 09/02/2010 5:13:24 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: Shooter 2.5

The people of NYC might as well have Chuckie Schumer as majority leader.

Please tell me again what the NRA has done for the people of NYC? They still cannot carry to defend themselves and exercise a fundaamental Constitutional right, and you have the audacity of saying “what if it weren’t for the NRA”?


21 posted on 09/02/2010 5:17:05 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: Lurker

Yes, they have.

The National Republican Senatorial Committee was quick to relay news of the NRA’s decision. Meanwhile, Reid’s campaign manager, Brandon Hall, noted that the NRA has donated to Reid’s campaign and not to Angle’s during the current election cycle. The group donated $4,950 to the Reid campaign, according to records maintained by the Center for Responsive Politics.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/08/27/politics/p145040D25.DTL&feed=rss.news_politics


22 posted on 09/02/2010 5:20:15 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: Shooter 2.5
This one is for you shooter 2.5!


23 posted on 09/02/2010 5:23:56 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: mad_as_he$$
The groupNRA members donated $4,950 to the Reid campaign, according to records maintained by the Center for Responsive Politics.

Fixed it.
24 posted on 09/02/2010 5:25:58 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: marktwain
1) It is hereby stipulated that the NRA is not perfect.

However, in the Chicago MSM is was the NRA that the people first heard about on filing suit re: McDonald v Daley. oops I mean Chicago.

Also, it was the NRA that got the EPA to drop their plan last week to BAN lead ammunition as the eco-Nazis demanded. And all it took was a little 'pressure' from the NRA when this plan became public. The EPA folded like a cheap suit the moment they knew they were facing the NRA. ('Public Comments' were supposed to be open through Oct, Ha!)

The fact of the matter is the NRA has power and force. The SAF and GOA does not.

By the way, what DOES the GOA do besides send out press releases and stamp their feet about the mean gun grabbers? Do you even get a 'secret decoder ring' if you join? (/s)

25 posted on 09/02/2010 5:27:22 AM PDT by Condor51 (SAT CONG!)
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To: Condor51

I am an NRA member but will allow my membership to expire this year.

One troubling thing is not only the donations to dems (who may have supported obamacare and thus down the road, a gun grabbing scheme), but also for the fact that the NRA legitimizes clearly Unconstitutional gun laws by doing business in states and even teaching those gun Unconstitutional laws.

Imagine MLK in the 1960’s going the south telling blacks to “just sit in the back of the bus”. Can anyone? No. Because, he would have been doing a grave disservice to the civil rights movement by doing so by legitimizing Unconstituional laws. Yet this is precisely what the NRA does by teaching Unconstituional laws in states like CA.

And amazingly, many gun owners simply sit back and say “don’t criticize them”. Screw that.


26 posted on 09/02/2010 5:38:35 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: Red in Blue PA
*** And amazingly, many gun owners simply sit back and say “don’t criticize them”. Screw that. ***

I'm pretty sure I started my post with this:

"1) It is hereby stipulated that the NRA is not perfect."

And I know that as I 'dealt with' the IL NRA Chapter on a Local issue that arose some time back. And per my Mayor, (off the record of course), my work(1) did more to defeat an anti gun bill than what the IL NRA Rep attempted (I think he was drunk).

So I have my criticisms too. But they're still the best of the rest.

(1) I had two days to prepare and submit to the Village Board what amounted to a Legal Brief. Disputing point by point, and case by case, what a gun grabbing Vill Board member was trying to get passed. He was a Lawyer AND a stealth democrat and is now long gone. But his damage would have still been here. Per the Mayor, my 'brief' swayed enough members for the Nay Votes to defeat his bill (an AWB).

27 posted on 09/02/2010 6:10:43 AM PDT by Condor51 (SAT CONG!)
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