Posted on 09/05/2010 11:32:43 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Some cities in California are so bloated in debt and other problems they are considering dissolution. Mercury News asks is this The End of Half Moon Bay?
Between budget losses and lawsuit payments, Half Moon Bay's financials have become so dire that if a local sales tax measure doesn't pass this November, officials say they may have to disincorporate.
City leaders have been using the "D" word for a few weeks now as they try to persuade voters to pass Measure K, a one-cent sales tax increase that would help the city balance its budget with an extra infusion of $1.4 million per year for the next seven years.
Dissolving Half Moon Bay -- handing the city's budget, operations and services to San Mateo County -- would be an absolute last resort, but the city may not have many other options left, City Councilman John Muller said.
At first glance, disincorporation could save taxpayers some money: no more city administration to support. Police services would be contracted out, and the county would cover planning, building and public works projects from its offices in Redwood City.
City Manager Michael Dolder admits disincorporation is one of the options on the table now. The City Council already cut $900,000 from the current budget -- including half its employees -- and imposed furloughs on those who remain. Some of the cuts were needed to pay for the Beachwood lawsuit settlement, a $15 million burden the city will shoulder in bond payments for the next 20 years.
Disincorporation is so rare in California that it's almost without precedent. The last city to do it, Cabazon in Riverside County, had fewer than 2,000 residents and no functional government to speak of when it voted to give up cityhood.
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
Pretty town, that won’t change.
Wait till all the retiring state employees start to collect on those pension benefits. That was like getting a winning lottery ticket for them.
They should have all along been getting lower than average wage with zero retirement in exchange for a steady job.
As unions donated to politicians, the politicians raised the hell out of the union pay and benefits.
That is what needs to become null and void IMO.
It would be better to liquidate the politicians and labor union officials who caused the mess.
Good idea . If any of the clowns responsible for the Beachwood mess are still around, they could pose for a poster for dis-incorporation. They gotta quit smoking those artichokes.
Some jobs are much more hazardous than others. For instance myself working for the state dealing with mentally ill and criminally insane teens. I'm injured for life and it took four years of fighting and sleeping in tents before I EARNED my pension. Due to rules when the attack came I was not able to lift a finger unless another staff member was present.
I agree with you some even most California pensions are incredible especially with top heavy administration that push paper but what about folks like us that have disabilities due to on the job injuries with patients or prisoners? What are folks going to do when there are no guards, techs, nurses and doctors to deal with the prison and mentally ill populations that are way too dangerous to place back out on the streets? Do they deserve anything or are folks going to cut us off? If cut off and since the state has no plans to re educate me due to cutbacks my future from what many folks are saying( cut off all state pensions) seem very harsh. What of all the sheriffs that paid their dues or firemen?
For those cities which will not cut spending and do not keep tight reins on their employees which result in judgments against those cities, I say, “Fine. Dissolve the city. Just make certain that all public employees are pink slipped first.”
Several Counties are on the path of bankruptcy as well. Trinity was on the edge just a few years ago and Modoc is there now. I think several will go over this year with the deferral of revenue from the state and the passing on of more and more state duties to local government.
Kill them. Shoot, hang and beat them. ( It's amazing how many 'crazy' people are never 'crazy' around those that are non warped into the modern superstitions of the psycho industry.)
You are really injured. But what about the other 90% who are not? Just faking their injury to get the full benefits of retirement from the gov trough? I know of a few who did this. It makes me sick but the taxpayers are SCREWED.
Just because you work the gov doesn’t make you any more special than the guy at a mine or a construction job, etc. who gets injured.
Good luck.
I have never understood the desire for all these small California communities to incorporate as cities. If you incorporate, you have to pay extra local taxes to pay for services. If you stay unincorporated, the county has to pay for everything, and those costs are subsidized by people who live in incorporated cities!
It may take five years...but I don’t see how every city...every county...and even the state...can avoid complete bankruptcy. If I were a retiree in California today...I’d be putting the house up for sale and leaving quickly. There’s major problems brewing here.
I have relatives in Half Moon Bay. They deserve all of this and more. It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of aging hippies.
Cities do provide for services that County does not. Our County has a large unicorporated area that wanted the County to give it money to provide local services. They wanted their local onsite police and fire service paid for, their dirt roads paved, their sewer/water systems provided. It was pointed out that the County does not provide these services to the other unicorporated areas. New paved roads, local cops, fire dept. and sewer/water systems are all city, not County functions. They will have to form Service Districts and tax themselves or form a city.
Well, we live in a large retirement community in unincorporated Riverside County, CA. Nearly all of the nearby cities are contract cities and contract with the county for their police and fire protection. We get the same protection as they get. The county maintains our roads and provides the same services as the cities provide. Residents of the cities have a untility tax of 4 to 8% on their electric, gas, water, phone and cable TV bills. We DO NOT. Plus, some of those city residents pay added property taxes for services that the county provides to us as part of our standard property tax. We would have to be nuts to incorporate.
I just drove through Vallejo early last week. Vallejo is the first California city to file for bankruptcy. I gues Half Moon Bay is next. Then......? California is gone.
Of course, if they really believe that a one-cent tax will remain at one cent long, they deserve everything they get.
My sympathy meter hovers around -75
You are correct. However, the population is so pity driven that there is not the spiritual strength necessary to excrete the criminal element.
Improvements like paved roads, sewer service, etc. are not included, you have to get by on what you have now. Police protection? In theory, yes, but you'd be better off calling the County Sheriff.
Here’s an idea. Give California back to Mexico.
I worked many jobs before working for the state, some with zero insurance, some with conned insurance( paying into plans that don't exist), construction jobs where the insurance premiums are exorbiatant and retirement plans are junk. Believe me, I understand a LOT of folks do not deserve their pensions especially those complacent or negligent in their duties and yes many, many with faked injuries. If I came across to harshly it's pure emotion and stress. These are hard times and in my ( and others who fought for their pensions) position I must pay everything cash. i get no help from HUD, or even food banks and when the car breaks or some other small catastrophe hits I must rely on dwindling friends or churches that have their own problems meting out emergency funds so in essence i sacrifice and do without.
I hope you can see my anxiety when people discuss cutting off pensions. The people who would probably end up making that decision might very well be the same people that fought so hard from keeping me from a pension basically because of political ramifications in Sacramento which I won't discuss; too lenghty. But again, California is in the death knell, billions in debt and who do you cut off, farmers in Fresno because of the river smelt? Cutting 50% of the bureaucracy would alone probably save billions but cutting my pension would most probably kill me. I don't have the answer, really don't. I think cutting back pensions on many would be a good idea but to cut back the thin blue line, hospital workers, firemen and others who depend on their monthly pension checks is a very tough call in my opinion. Then again I'm a BIT biased.
Take care
So let’s get this straight.
I have to pay for your pension, even though I’m disabled too? Yeah, it sucks, but then according to your people, I’m ‘employable’.
Sorry, I don’t have any sympathy. Been screwed over too many times.
The system is broken and needs serious repair but I just don’t know what to cut and what to keep. Sadly, I don’t have many answers, just a lot of questions. Of course there are no jails or prisons anymore, just correctional facilities./s Every murderer has a dx. Sometimes it fits to a “T” other times it’s a con job, but I wasn’t a shrink and have gotten into enough arguments with (anti)social workers and psychologists to understand it’s a losing battle when they start throwing around their phd’s and h2so4’s.
Look bud
I don’t think anyone here is asking for your pension to be cut.We’re just making observations that the State has pretty much dug itself into a hole.
I would honestly start talking to friends or possibly seek legal help if the state is going to screw you over.
At this point I am sure that California is going to be trying to shake off as many people off the teat.Some of whom probably depend on that money to pay rent or survive.
Those who have the poltical clout to make 6 figure pensions will most likely get to keep them.
Again I don’t think anyone on FreeRepublic has anything against you.
The things you might want to do:
1)Apply for social security.
2)Look for a food pantry near you.
3)See about moving in with relatives.
4)Best thing to do car wise is get someone you know to take care of it or learn how to do some of the stuff yourself.
Tick, Tock goes the demographic time bomb. The baby boomers are due to atart retiring this year (1945 plus 65 equals 2010). That is 77 million people over twenty years. This is a demographic tsunami. Many have federal and state retirements. Tick, tock.
One day in Kalifornia, a bunch of liberals will have to decide if they want to feed, cloth and house illegals.
The system works great. It’s just it isn’t for it’s state purpose. The system exists for the system. That’s it. Not to solve anything, not to do anything.
James M. Buchanan received a Nobel prize in economic for what is called ‘Public Choice Theory’. In short, the study of bureaucracy, especially public bureaucracy. All are motivated and rewarded to..................make problems worse.
So, there you go. The purpose of government is to grow government.
We saw GM union pension bailed out by Obama, but I can not see much more of that. So what happens to this next phase of bankruptcies and soon to come non ability to pay pensions and daily operating fees in cities, states? Well, if cities and states can't pay, they won't. That means pension cuts. It has happened to pilots, and railway workers. I don't see why gov workers, now well thought to have higher paying, better benefited, easier jobs with a more secure working life income stream will politically have the political support amongst politicians not to take a hit. People have fled high tax blue cities. Those that remain are on declining wealth paths and regardless of tax rates, will not, and can not pay. Red state voters will not pay for blue state pensions. We are coming up on a census redraw and red states are going to be vacuumed of their Congressmen with those seats transferred to blue states. This does not factor in the possible GOP taking over the house this election. If it does, they coupled with the census redraw, northern, high tax, high union, states are going to find themselves on the end of a cut off limb economically. Washington may well continue to tax rape us, but the money is not going to go to red states.
Which is what happens when you bailout anyone,someone else is going to ask why they can be bailed out.Yeah you’re right though I don’t see this happening over and over again.
At the end of the day to pull this off,you have to be coming out of the private sector.Mostly because Goldman and hell GM usually tend to work for their own money.
The same people who flee blue states usually end up bringing that kind of lifestyle with them.It is never too late to start betting against some kind of new “California Miracle” bringing in more tax revenues.
Too me it all gets back to people being mostly dumb when it comes for voting for their own interests.If they’d been smart they wouldn’t have voted for representative who’d have given a free pass to public unions.
Since the thread has gone to a discussion of retirement let me relate this: my wife’s cousin retired some time ago from a Central Valley PD. He then turned around and got a job working in the court as a bailiff. He retired again last year drawing two separate pensions from the county. Nice work if you can get it. Oh yeah he and his wife has full insurance for life.
Then again people like me get screwed out of 3/4 of a years worth of salary and I have nowhere to go. No pension other than what I save. No unions to stick up for me. No medical unless I pay for it, etc... I have to suck it up and move on. That is what family and friends are there for. I just get P O’ed when people complain about getting as much money if not more money while NOT working after their retirement. I pay my taxes and they get full pay and I will be lucky to get $900 a month from SS.
rant off for now.
CK:>)
Maybe I'll just say screw the rent, take my camera on a US tour and see what happens. It's better than siting here buggering to nowhere.
I agree, hell on earth end of days type of stuff.
Soilent green time.
As a guard I would consider that under the police banner.
I would strip all the above of the extra pay in the pension if there was gains due to pay raises or overtime in the last few years which has gone on a lot.
As far as you getting hurt, don't know if the policies were wrongfully protecting the nut jobs over the safety of the guard employees.
My understanding is we have gone too far with the lawsuits.
It is a shame if conditions become more dangerous for a person like you because you are banned from protecting yourself until something crossed a particular line. Then that becomes a lawsuit and then we injure the good guys.
Makes no sense IMO.
The guards pay or benefits are under attack in this state (California) if I remember because of some kind of nonsense regarding excess if I remember from a year or two ago. Have no current memory of what the issue was though.
I do hope you are getting better with the injuries and health though. It's horrible to get hurt.
As a guard I would consider that under the police banner.
I would strip all the above of the extra pay in the pension if there was gains due to pay raises or overtime in the last few years which has gone on a lot.
As far as you getting hurt, don't know if the policies were wrongfully protecting the nut jobs over the safety of the guard employees.
My understanding is we have gone too far with the lawsuits.
It is a shame if conditions become more dangerous for a person like you because you are banned from protecting yourself until something crossed a particular line. Then that becomes a lawsuit and then we injure the good guys.
Makes no sense IMO.
The guards pay or benefits are under attack in this state (California) if I remember because of some kind of nonsense regarding excess if I remember from a year or two ago. Have no current memory of what the issue was though.
I do hope you are getting better with the injuries and health though. It's horrible to get hurt.
But I live in a nice rural area now and wouldn't change it for all the years of inhumanity I've seen. The rules ( for management of asaultive behavior) in a hospital setting are very nasty and yes, you need two people( or more) for effective take-downs etc however this was a riot and people were getting hurt all over. The length of time for a review board with workers comp took two years and CalPers was almost 4 years, missed by the Nolan Act by mere days so had to re file everything and some items were originals so yeah, it took a heck of a long time.
As I wrote, I have few answers. What I saw even back when I was injured was less guards, nurses, heck all kinds of staff reductions, more staff duties and more gray areas for intervention,lots of mandated double shifts, lots of burnout and more assaults due to administrative changes that came via Sacramento which was allegedly"pro-active." In other words they wanted to see their system work( the one I was referring is broken, NOT the US constitution) so folks were just charting the violence differently or negligent in charting at all due to administrative pressures and yet we were the "grunts" so to speak where we were seeing an increase in violence because there was a lack of consequences for the aberrant behavior. Hope that makes sense.
And since I was one of the first injured after these administrative changes happened( staff had told certain inmates/ patients I was a martial arts instructor so I was a main target) the hospital administration and Sacramento made it that much harder to prove my case as it was a black mark on their new softer, gentler, more em"pathetic" system. Hope that helps you understand more. I cannot not state where or when as that would and could possibly expose things which might deal with privacy and other such repercussions back at me. I suppose that's why I was so sensitive to the suggestions of pulling all pensions.
I agree however there needs to be an overhaul, there needs to be changes in the jail/hospital/juvenile hall systems that protect staff and other things, like changing the rules of discharging still very dangerous people to satiate Sacramento's numbers to "prove" Corrections facilities( etc) are working or else it falls on the individual nurses, doctors, guards and aide workers in which Sacramento applies pressure on the individuals for failure of their applied system, thus you are fired. I saw it too many times. Hope this clarifies a bit more.
A hospital setting may not be a proper place for a mentally ill violent person, maybe they need to jail them.
Maybe their impairments make them closer to animals in behavior than normal humans.
Maybe there was a good reason many used to be drugged out of their minds all day long.
Seems people are trying to hang their hats on the words compassion and civility.
It is ridiculous and stupid to make people act super civil in menacing situations that are never controllable.
They sue hospitals to make it dangerous for workers, and the injured workers should be able to sue for damages and those who made these stupid rules should have all their personal wealth at risk to lawsuits as well IMO, then you'd get less dysfunctional orders regarding procedures.
BIG PROBLEMS, and I am sorry you had yours.
I did love my job as much as there were issues. It certainly was a daily adventure. Oh yes, there were gang hits out on me for awhile; had the martial arts studio windows shot out and my car thrashed a few times so it was wise to move. Police couldn't do much. Now anyone comes near my place I can see them acomin'!
I apologize to all FReepers for making this thread about a side issue. In all however, it's true what the thread says, California is in deep do doo and it's also true what folks have stated on this thread, there needs to be serious cuts and changes across the board. If we could just get rid of cheaters and illegals California could be much more well off; JMHO.
The state is upside down.
The reasoning used to govern and make police appears to be more about enacting a wish list than using and reasoning and sound judgment.
From what you said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the gang leaders bought or threatened Judges off to get put in the hospitals instead of prisons.
I don't think there is an apology needed regarding your story. It gives a better understanding to what we are dealing with.
Nothing better then first hand knowledge.
Thanks.
The state is upside down.
The reasoning used to govern and make police appears to be more about enacting a wish list than using and reasoning and sound judgment.
From what you said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the gang leaders bought or threatened Judges off to get put in the hospitals instead of prisons.
I don't think there is an apology needed regarding your story. It gives a better understanding to what we are dealing with.
Nothing better then first hand knowledge.
Thanks.
Ollie North in a smaller world but still almost the same ramifications. North was used and abused plain and simple, me I fought and won and still have a TON of evidence that's just dam*ing. Like North I documented everything. If not for his journals though some are redacted I'd say the case is very similar only he had much more to lose. Maybe someday I'll be able to unbury the evidence.
I call BS.
this is a scare tactic by the city.
They can declare chapter 9 bankruptcy and rip up the union contracts.
The city may disincorporate but the debts remain.
Chapter 9 could easily torch the union contracts.
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