Skip to comments.Open letter to conservatives who back same-sex marriage
Posted on 09/06/2010 9:57:15 AM PDT by LonelyCon
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So, which other of our unalienable rights do you think the States can alienate, other than the right to live?
I agree. So I vote for representatives who I believe hold those same values. That doesn't make those values Constitutional obligations under the U.S. Constitution.
"And the Fourteenth Amendment makes it clear that the States have the affirmative obligation to provide for the equal protection of the laws for EVERY person."
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
So is it your contention that the words "No state shall make or enforce any law which..." means precisely the same thing as "States SHALL make laws which ensure that individuals do NOT...?"
This isn't difficult. It's simple logic. Asserting that states may not do a thing is simply NOT asserting that states must ensure that private entities do not do that same thing.
"But, since you're on a roll with this patent nonsense, I take it you apply the same "logic" to all unalienable rights, right? Not just the supreme right, the right to live?
Don't be emotional. Leave that for the lefties. This isn't about anything but grammatical construction. The words mean what they say, and nothing more - however much you or I may wish them to.
"If States want to, they can, under your rubric, deny the rights to free speech, freedom of the press, assembly, petition, the right to keep and bear arms, trial by a jury of your peers, parental rights, freedom of political association, etc. Right?"
Correct with respect to to all but RKBA, which is a right explicity extended to "the people" by the 2nd Amendment, and the right to a jury trial which is explicitly extended to all citizens by the 6th and 7th Amendments.
I interpret the words in the 1st Amendment that read "Congress shall make no law" to mean, roughly, "Congress shall make no law."
But, hey, that's just me.
Nope, but you did. ZOT!!
You talk like the right to keep and bear arms and the right to a jury trial is a gift of government, granted by the Constitution. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If your rights were “extended” to you by men, surely men can withdraw them.
Just like you’re contending states can do with most of our rights, including the supreme right, the right to life.
Your views rob the Constitution of all real meaning, gutting it as you do of any true conception of individual, God-given, unalienable, rights, or of any real purpose behind the oath of office.
Look again. That isn’t a pentagram.
They are actually my friends. I work in theatre, and hence have many, many close friends who are gay and therefore I don’t choose to engage in the militant homophobia that often raises its ugly head on this site, as I am pretty sure I have more close gay friends than nearly anyone else around these parts.
I’ve had longevity on FR, if you had bothered to look at how long I’ve been around. It’s a shame that open debate is no longer encouraged. I’m sure I’m in for the zot, but it’s a sad, sad state of affairs when conservatives march in lockstep.
Longevity? Who cares.
Open debate no longer allowed on FR? I signed up in 2002 to read the news and to fight the homosexual agenda. I’ve been fighting it on FR almost nonstop for 8 years. I’ve seen so many people banned for pushing the militant homosexual agenda you don’t have enough fingers, toes or teeth to count ‘em by!
FR has never, ever been a site that allows promotion of the militant, radical leftist homosexual agenda.
Yeah but it’s still scary! Or would be if I was the zottee...
Thank you. Rachel Faith needs to read my tagline. Disseminating hopelessness and defeatism is not service to God or humanity.
I am not a hand wringing defeatist.
Nor am I a delusional Dominionist.
I am a realist.
And reality is what reality is.
How many of you think we won’t be having abortions in another 10 years?
1973! 50 Million since 1973 and completely unregulated.
We can’t even get them to do the level of paperwork that you have to do to sell a beer!
What can we do about spending?
Do you think the 100+ seat GOP is going to suddenly STOP spending and then CUT back?
Is there any historical evidence you could present which would support any other conclusion other than this:
Democracies ALL Die of Suicide.
History tells us, we are doomed.
The actions of our leaders in both parties tell us we are doomed.
The Bible tells us, we are doomed.
This Earth. This time. Is all going to fall.
The period of darkness is nigh.
You are either prepared for it or self deluded that it is not happening all around you.
Now, I know, nothing I have said has remotely penetrated the fog in your mind.
I know your sincere, yet mistaken belief in Dominionism.
America will rise from these ashes and usher in a brave new world, if only we didn’t have these “hang wringers” bringing everyone down.
I am not bringing anyone down! I am waking people up!
Others, not blinded by your false religious teachings will see what is self evident. America as we knew it is gone!
Something else is going to replace it. The sooner we understand WHAT and WHEN, the sooner we can be prepared.
This is not some sky is falling while everything is really OK nonsense.
This economy is not ABLE to come back. Housing prices, stocks, everything upon which it has been built since 1986 is about to come to an end.
And you are NOT DEALING with it.
Wrong: If Dick Cheney had ANY concept of LOVE he would not condemn his daughter to eternal HELL. He would fight so hard it would make his US Foreign policy look weaker than Ron Paul’s!
That he DOES NOT fight for her soul is proof that he does NOT “love” her. He doesn’t care and that should be all we need to know of his true character.
Things can change. There is human free will - used well and misused - and God’s ultimate arrangement and plans.
You are mixing up apples, oranges and wheel bearings. Economy is one thing (it’s artificial, has to crumble or collapse to become a reality based economy). A society founded upon moral values is another thing.
Ranting screeds saying “I am a realist and you are not and DEAL WITH IT” are very boring and totally unconvincing as reasonable debate methods.
Your opinion is your opinion, and as we know, everyone has one. But they are not all of equal value. Screwtape called himself and his fellow devils “realists”. Saying you are a realist doesn’t mean that you have a better grasp of reality than someone else. Bald assertions don’t mean you see the truth more than someone else.
How do I know if abortions will be happening at the same rate in ten years? I don’t know. And neither do you.
Spending? If the gov doesn’t have money, they won’t spend it. Sure, things are going to change one way or another, they always do.
This “WE’RE ALL DOOMED” crap is just that, crap.
You can believe it all you want, fine. But trying to shove it down everyones’ throat in an arrogant manner will not win you converts. Your assertions that you see “reality” and no one else does (unless they agree with your arguments from the future as though you are a modern day Nostradamus) are just plain irrational.
I have no clue what you mean by Dominionism but I would bet if I were a betting lady that I don’t believe in it.
You actually have not a clue as to what I believe. But I can tell you that “DOOM IS NIGH ALL IS LOST” is a stupid, silly, defeatist belief and spreading “WOE IS US” messages are counter-productive to any positive, moral or rational discussion or actions.
Suit yourself but fewer and fewer people are reading your nonsense on FR. I only read this comment so I could reply properly.
I mean, if this is what is passing for substantive debate on just how dumbed down....
If you think "we" have lost, YOU and ONLY YOU are the loser, because you have allowed the other camp to define you, and to define the meaning of "lost."
You're just another "sky-is-falling" surrender monkey so unused to winning that you fail to recognize the wins when they happen. So, you show up around here just to grouse, to crawl up into a ball, to hide, to wring your hands, and to just pray for the Rapture.
You and the other suckers like you have fallen into their trap. YOU -- the loser by choice it seems -- are playing defense while the rest of the right thinking are playing offense and scoring victories.
Teach your children how to live for Christ in a soviet styled nation. It is coming and it is already within our own house as we sleep! When I say deal with it, I mean as if you were just woken by the sounds of men in you home and about to open the bedroom door in seconds and you have NO weapons able to stop them. What do you do? Prepare!!
Where you been, girl? You sound like the John Birch Society c. 1965. I've been around since this same miserable line was being dealt almost 50 years ago by the Hal Lindsay types, and is still dealt by the Jack van Impe "end-times" charlatans who didn't have it right back then and still clutter the tube for perpetual worry warts like yourself 50-years hence.
The enemy has successfully forced you into the crouching position. Prepare? Prepare for what -- to kiss your ass goodbye? The JBSers line back in '69 was "Will you be free in '73?" Grab the guns, silver, gold, and space food sticks and head for your bomb shelter. For all anyone on this board knows, you weren't even born back then. Whatever it is, you just don't know history, and are now merely parroting those same old sorry-ass lines. You showed up late enough here on FR, that's for sure.
Suffice it to say, your kind was of little value to the cause of conservatism by the time Reagan showed up to claim victory in 1980. He even said as much back then too.
You write crap like you do yet have this for a tag-line: "2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Welcome to "The Hunt for Red November"." So which is it? Commies busting down your door in the middle of the night, or a tidal wave that swamps the opposition? What does Rachel possibly have "faith" in, when Rachel is by every implication, if not by tacit admission -- so confused at the core of what she passes off for her presumed "faith"?
You contradict yourself on every level, and you sound like a fool. You can't have it both ways.
There is a battle for the soul of the (R) party. The RINO strategy faggots are outing themselves. The moles in the camp are being exposed and the Tea Party is working like an antiseptic toward this end.
I have complete faith in Natural Law. Homosexuality destroys all that it touches. First and foremost it destroys itself from within, it destroys its practitioners, and it destroys its advocates. It destroys its opposition --but only if its opposition lets it.
You are letting it destroy you. You have lost the will to fight, and by claiming "we have lost," you are no different than Harry Reid saying the same about what became the resoundingly successful surge in Iraq. You are hunched over there in the corner somewhere cowering in fear, contemplating the lint in your belly button perhaps, while the rest of us are on the offensive and claiming victories.
You continue to talk it down and you will lose. Your kind is the cancer within, intent on babbling your Jeremiads while at the same time doing little more than serving to de-moralize and de-motivate what is the winning team.
As far as the rest of us are concerned, many of us who have been on the front line fighting for the past 50 years, rest assured: no one needs the FR-equivalent of a Tokyo Rose.
So you have been fighting this for 50 years? And you still don't see how much worse it's gotten? You still think "victory is just around the corner"? After 50 YEARS?
I think someone said something about Insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.... I dunno.
Now, if you are gonna lump me in with John Birtch and Hal Lindsay... WOW.
Thank you so much!!
Seriously! I mean it. I hope God will bless you in the things you have chosen.
Both of those men, the people who came before them, and after them... Heroes. MY kind of people indeed. That you would put little me into that company moves my heart deeply. I am not at all being sarcastic. I am encouraged in my convictions by your very direct attack. I am all the more motivated to stand firm in the faith of the promise by your very clear hatred for them.
Now, you say I fail to notice the "wins".... which win would it be that I failed to notice?
Would it be Bush and Obama following the exact same war strategy dealing with our PEACEFUL MUSLIMS... Bowing before them, holding their hands, walking two steps behind them?
Would it be the bailout of the Banks? The automakers? Or the other international too big to fail corporations?
Would it be the 50 million dead babies? Abortion on demand still the "law" of the land?
Would it be the 1994 and 2010 control of the Congress which them precedes to do NOTHING except take the peoples money and use it to bribe them? Oh... I think I am getting slightly ahead of myself...
I bet YOU think 2010 will be DIFFERENT than 1954 or 1994... right? I am sure you do.
See, as a student of history and human nature, I believe that people do not change. Behaviors are conditioned and power corrupts. Thus, meet the new boss... Same as the old boss.
You are older... so maybe that song hits a button or two? Or would you be even too old for That?
Doesn't matter. Reality IS. And in 365 days, ONE of us will be right, and one of us will be wrong. You think it is now going to be better. I will expound upon my prediction in a minute.
But first, Reagan. God bless him. But, really. What did he change? Russia still has nukes, the President is a former KGB director, and they are still messing with the Middle East. Lebanon fell, we didn't stop it or save it. Iran is far worse today than in 1980. And all the presidents since have "Borrowed" if you pardon the pun, from his theories on deficit spending for their pet causes.
So, what "win" was that? Morale? He gave us BOTH Bushes!!
Now, let's discuss my Tagline. OK?
The prediction for the 100+ has been there for over a year. I was saying this when everyone else was LAUGHING at me. Now, the TV pundits are all saying 60+.
And then I added the quip about the hunt for red November just recently. But, it used to say "unless the RINOs in the Senate ruin it".
They can't. It's over. We are going to win soooo big as it won't be funny.
But, so what? We will get John McCain and his gang of 11... a few of them ain't their this time around, but I bet he will find 3 more stooges.
We will get Bohner, McConnell, Daniels, and the rest of them. And Obama STILL has the VETO.
Wait... please tell me... you think they will Impeach him? Find his Kenya Birth Certificate? You one of those too?
No. Obama will get a 2nd term.
You read that right.
Just like Bill Clinton. Everyone thought he was a dead man walking. But the GOP screwed up and handed it to him.
Here we go... please calm down and read it slowly.
Mitt Romney will be the Nominee. THAT is why we will lose in 2012. Well, that and the GOP choosing to NOT do anything and getting the blame as the economy gets WORSE.
But here is another Historical fact: The GOP has always nominated the previous runner up. It's "Willards" turn now.
Before you go off, let me tell you... I hope God strikes him dead and spares us... but I don't think that is gonna happen. I'd love it if the rapture DID come first ... right NOW and spare us too. But, if the Lord tarries, we are GOING to Nominate Willard Mitt Romney and get our asses handed to us.
Meanwhile, nothing else will change... well, IMPROVE... Abortion will still be legal. More and More states will allow Homosexuals to marry and adopt children, the Public Employees Unions will grow, taxes will rise, home values will decline, wages will stagnate, Islam will spread, Public Education will continue to cost more while test scores continue to drop.... I could go on...
The facts are... in 50 years... EVERY ONE OF THOSE THINGS HAS GOTTEN WORSE!
So... enough about me... tell me why... WHY by evidence, you think it is suddenly going to turn around?
As Jerry Falwell said so perfectly.... if God doesn't judge America, He owes a big apology to Sodom and Gomorrah.
Lastly... you said it well... Homosexuality DESTROYS.
Yes. Utterly, totally and forever. So, do you think we are going to stop it? Repeal the laws? Undo the marriages, cancel the deeds done? End it?
Really? What in your 50 years of experience gives you ANY such suggestion? Abortion is a better hope... and we haven't done ANYTHING about that.
50 years... 50 million dead. Same is true for Homosexuality. Only it won't take or last 50 years.... 10 TOPS.
Then as you said, it will destroy everything. And that is not "if we let it". WE DID LET IT.
Bush didn't do anything about it. Did not end Don't Ask Don't tell. Not even THAT in a time of WAR. Nope. He could have. Could have given you a real "WIN", something to have as evidence that milk CAN be put back in the bottle. Or even wiped up. Instead he left it on the floor to rot and smell.
Iraq.... Don't even want to get started here, I think I said it well enough above. If Bush was serious about the war, he wouldn't have ran it like Vietnam from the Whitehouse while holding the hands of the King of Arabia who is funding the terrorists with our tax dollars.
I am not a Tokyo Rose: I AM JEHANNE D'ARC!!
And if you want to know WHAT I say we must do... to avoid the fate I am foretelling...
We need to FIGHT! And that is not "debate". That is not "protest". We have guns, weapons, and will... well, I doubt the later, but we MAY... and we SHOULD...
The last war we really fought: WWII. And we bombed cities in Germany on Christmas. Burning them to the ground. We need to remove all the Muslims from the Earth. And we need to do it now.
We will "win" only if we ACT. We removed the Nazis via total war, and that is the only course for Islam. Anything less, by the slightest hesitation, we will fail.
And as much as you don't like to hear it. WE ARE FAILING NOW.
Same for the Sodomites. Make it, the capital crime that it once was and IS, and deal with them. Anything less. Any "domestic partnerships" or "civil unions" is death to America.
Now, show me that anyone has the "WILL" to "WIN" this war, instead of posting on a message board and talking cheap talk about our "great victories" in the last 50 years.
No one is on the front line in this war... Well, maybe a hundred or so... But they are the "John Brown's" of the 21s century and we haven't had a modern Harper's Ferry.
So don't tell me I am a quitter, when you pretend we can win by talking, while ignoring the imminent death all around you.
Well said, Agammemnon.
Except - ahem - for the “Jeremiads”... :-)
(note my tagline!)
There are only two major eschatological points of view: In basic, they are these:
Dominionism: The Lord will establish His kingdom in our hearts first, then rule on the Earth AFTER we have made it all better. So, we should never give up and always believe that He is waiting for us to DO these things and will help us to that goal.
The other is generic Dispensationalism or Premillennialism. The operative assumptions are that the world will continually degenerate prior to the return of Christ, as the world goes from bad to worse a large segment of the Church will be deceived and become apostate, the anti-Christ will reign in earthly government and the faithful remnant will either be Raptured out of the world before, during, or at the end of this reign of evil. The key attitude towards culture that develops out of this eschatology is that human societies and governments are not redeemable, will not conform to Christ's will, but will grow increasingly wicked. Therefore, the call of Christians is to evangelize individuals, who, by God's grace, are being plucked out of the fire and deceptions of the Last Days.
While there are VARIOUS degrees, those two views DO sum up the general "side" of the debate.
You either think and ACT according to ONE or the OTHER belief.
Unless of course you are Atheist, Muslim or such. Then you have a WHOLE different set of values.
There IS freewill. And there IS predestination. BOTH are true in what they embrace. Both are wrong in what they deny.
But THAT is a whole different topic.
This topic is simple: Does the American Public, have the understanding of the dangers of embracing Sodomy and will they STOP, TURN and UNDO it.
By beliefs in predestination, and freewill, along with a Dispensationist doctrine says NO. They WILL NOT. Game over. Next please !! That is reason. Experience. And if it comes across as "extreme" or "outrageous"... as I said on the previous post, I am honored to be so named and in such good company!!
How about this:
I don’t believe either one of them.
I kinda figured that one...
In the extremely unlikely event that you ever get ZOTted, I'll give you this one, okay?
Future Viking Kitty:
I'll be more careful of the "little jeremiads!"
Great tag line, ya got there too.
One should never fail to appreciate what Natural Law can, will, and does accomplish in the context of those who choose to break it.
Poor young Rachel-the-Faithless BeatBreast, our thread's pathological malcontent-ed prognosticator: she just keeps insisting on losing, doesn't she? I mean, even "JEHANNE D'ARC" - Joan of Arc - was burned at the stake!
It's kind of funny, really -- "Joan of Arc" is what I like to call the way I like my onions done on a Philly Cheese steak too.
What's equally funny though is, unlike RachelFlabberJibber here, I don't think Joan lit the match on her own pyre!
Now that’s a frightening kitty!
I was banned for a day once, never found out why (mistake?) but it was quite a shock seeing that purple screen!
It’s a quote from C.S.Lewis. He wrote a lot of really excellent one liners!
I have a few. I've actually found that some of them understand my reasoning when I tell them I don't want to change the definition of marriage. One of my own personal reasons is, if we change it for them, we'll quickly be under pressure to change it for others. Just imagine the health insurance nightmares for employers if Muslims get polygamy allowed in the States.
Having homosexuals as co-workers does not make one competent to judge their parenting skills. To make such a judgment one must be in a position to follow the children over a long period of time and objectively evaluate many different factors. Even though most studies of homosexual parenting have built-in biases, certain negative effects have nonetheless come to light - including sexual orientation confusion. This alone can seriously disrupt normal childhood development.
The term “militant homophobia” is often used to refer to anyone who voices opposition to the gay agenda. However, it is the gay activists themselves who are “militantly” opposed to and “intolerant” of the traditional understanding of marriage and the family.
Have you honestly considered whether your homosexual co-workers are happy in their lifestyle? The research clearly indicates that homosexuals are at much higher risk for emotional and psychological illness, including suicide. The best research is also controlled for so-called perceived hatred by heterosexuals - i.e., it is not the result of the lack of societal affirmation. In fact, some countries which are the most “gay friendly” in their public policy and social attitudes, have the most unhappy homosexual populations.
I once did a research paper on the negative health effects of homosexuality, which catalogued literally dozens of diseases that are rampant in the gay community, some of them incurable. One study indicated that the lifespan of homosexuals is up to 20 years less than heterosexuals, again as the result of behavior-based disease.
Is - I ask you - the mere pointing out of such facts, and the questioning whether such a lifestyle ought to be granted full affirmation and even promoted by society, to be considered “militant homophobia”? Are we not then guilty of the biblical warning regarding those who “call good evil - and evil good”?
Come on, you’re engaging in silly talk. Are the rights enshrined and protected by the Constitution “God-Given?” OK, I’ll say yes.
But what is the point of this sort of discussion? Presumably “God-Given” rights apply to everyone, right? So go tell Kim Jung Il that his subjects have the God-Given right to a jury trial. Tell me how that works out for you.
The Founders believed certain rights were inalienable and God-Given. But they didn’t stop there, did they? They very carefully constructed a framework to implement that belief, which quite clearly isn’t self-executing. If it were, they would have just said: “Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” and been done with it! Obviously that wouldn’t have worked. So they carefully developed a system to safeguard liberty and natural rights the best way they knew how - with a written Constitution.
"Glibertarians" don't realize how anti-discrimination laws function. If SSM is instated, and you as a worker or an employer don't recognize your fellow worker's "marriage", you can be fired or sued for discrimination and creating a hostile work environment in many locales.
Also a limited government cannot redefine a natural institution like marriage and still be limited. When words lose their meaning, the people lose their freedom.
From the Fifth AND the Fourteenth Amendments:
"No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."
" No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.