Skip to comments.Aftermath'--William Shatner interviews Ruby Ridge massacre survivor
Posted on 09/08/2010 1:45:28 PM PDT by Copernicus
This report delineates the various atrocities--and their consequences--committed at the hands of a rogue federal government.
The gist of the atrocities committed in the government-initiated massacre can be summed up in the words of the FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson, who wrote the following memo at the time:
'Memo: OPR 004477 Something to Consider 1. Charge against Weaver is Bull $@it. 2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting. 3. Vicki has no charges against her. 4. Weaver's defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog. Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position."'
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
Anthony Martin reviews all the evidence against the government with links and analysis.
Best regards to all,
“Anthony Martin reviews all the evidence”
Anthony Martin banned from Free Republic:
Ah yes, the ol Janet Reno, Eric Holder day’z.
I watched Shatner with Bernie Goetz and he was snarky. Goetz is a little off but Shatner is a jackball.
I watched on Hulu. No TV. F TV.
Shatner interviewed Sara Weaver, Randy Weaver’s eldest daughter. It was a good interview. She was very mature. I learned a few things I didn’t know. Highly recommended but also infuriating.
Some people on FR have way too much time on their typing hands.
Thread about Anthony martin getting banned:
Sounds like the usual barroom brawl we have all come to know and love here at Free Republic.
Interview was fair, mostly accurate, limited time I guess.
Worth a re-examination and serves as a warning about the consequences of an out-of-control law enforcement agency. I generally support individuals in local police forces, FBI, DEA, etc. I am suspect, as a rule, of governmental organizations given the power to wield violence and curtail freedom. Too often, I believe, right-minded conservatives are a bit reflexive in their support of law enforcement because they share the ideal (as do I). The danger is when politics trumps the Constitution and common sense.
During the Clinton/Reno years, Ruby Ridge and Waco were clear examples of federal agencies picking fights and using insane levels of excessive force and character assassination with the full cooperation of the media. What must define a crime or a criminal is what one has done, never who someone is. When you dispassionately research both cases and put aside any emotional reaction (pro or con) to the beliefs of the Weaver family or the Koresh-led sect, the actions of those groups never came close to justifying the military-style attacks they faced.
It scares me when the Feds can blur the lines and ignore the rules if the target of an investigation or raid is deemed a ‘wacko’. As the vilification of mainstream ‘Tea Partiers’ has shown, it is easy to convince a large part of the public that anyone who has too severe a degree of explicit whiteness or anti-government sentiment in their views is to be considered a non-person and deserving of government wrath...
Sara is on this trip preaching forgiveness for the murderer Hourichi and the other Federal scumbags. That is good for her and I hope she finds peace. For me it did just scratch the scab off of a wound that was only now barely beginning to heal..
I would add the Elian Gonzalez incident to your list of troubling actions.
That case should have weaved it’s way through the courts. The Leftists love that process until it comes up in a manner that doesn’t suit their objectives.
That jack-boot scene shouldn’t please anyone, whether they wanted Elian to go back to Cuba or not.
Isn’t this about the 10th thread in one week about this same interview? Ok maybe I went overboard on my estimation, its not 10... but at least nine. ;-)
Actually this happened under GHW Bush.
He seemed to be a real straight shooter.
It hard to imagine what he went through while on his own property minding his own business.
“Ah yes, the ol Janet Reno, Eric Holder dayz.”
Actually, no....that was a George HW Bush deal.
[snip]Actually, Ruby Ridge occured under President George H. W. Bush and his Attorney General in 1992.
Janet Reno did not take over DOJ until 1993.
Got links to the others?
I'll forgive Horiuchi when his brains are all over a wall or when he voluntarily enters prison. Not before.
“During the Clinton/Reno years, Ruby Ridge and Waco were clear examples of federal agencies picking fights and using insane levels of excessive force and character assassination with the full cooperation of the media”
Ruby Ridge happened under George H.W. Bush. Clinton just followed suit.
See post 19
August 21, 1992 - George HW Bush was President.
That was during Bush 1’s days
That was during Bush 1’s days
Wasn't the same FBI guy involved with both assaults?
Actually, this happened under Bush in August of 1992.
Though some of the same characters, including Lon Horiuchi, were invoved in Waco, the main political actors in Ruby Ridge were:
Idaho Gov (D) Cecil Andrus, Carter’s Secy of Interior, who allowed the FBI to use National Guard equipment (military equipment to siege 1 family in a shack)
USMS Wayne Smith, FBI HRT Commander Richard Rogers, US Attny Ron Howen used false reports of gunfire at a helicopter (the helicopter pilot said it didnt happen) as justification for the ROE and a charge of Conspiracy Against the Fed Gov
The judge who kept the bench warrant active for Weaver’s failure to meet the court date, even though Weaver was sent 2 letters with 2 dates.
FBI Director during the situation William Sessions, also Director for Waco.
Attorneys General for duration of case Dick Thornburgh and William Barr.
With you on that.
Only your government knows for sure.
It has been a long time since I read the accounts of what happened but the above is entirely wrong IIRC. Randy Weaver was not with his son, Samuel, and Harris who were out hunting. One FBI agent was hidden in the underbrush wearing a ghillie suit. The dog, which belonged to Samuel, started barking at the hidden agent. The agent, fearing exposure, shot the dog.
Samuel shot in the direction the shots had come from not knowing who had shot his dog or whether he and Harris were under fire also. He shot the agent. Samuel was wounded by return fire from the agent. Harris and Samuel ran back to the cabin. I don't recall if Harris carried him back but he was carrying him when he got to the property and put him in a shed near the house. Samuel may have been dead at that point.
And the damn ZOG agents killed him....
No, he sawed one off for an FBI agent. I don't think the agent presented himself as a White Supremacist.
That is what has brought all this bubbling back to the surface, apparently in a fairly big way.
As I recall you post is basically correct except that they were Us marshals, not FBI. The FBI was called in after the Marshall was killed.
See... Weaver, however tragic the death of his wife and son, was no hero. He was an asshole who drug his family into alot of crap.
I agree the government screwed the pooch big time after his son shot one of the agents scouting the house, but Weaver is no hero.
FWIW the author of the article, Anthony Martin, is a nutcase.
It covers a lot of ground in a comprehensive way.
Randy Weaver survived. His wife and son were killed by gov't agents. Randy and a friend were wounded. One gov't agent was killed.
In the Shatner interview, they said that the gov't suspended their usual ROE allowing the gov't to shoot first at anyone who was armed. This permission was in effect regardless of whether there was an immediate threat, if I understood it correctly.
He was talked into going to one picnic held by some people of interest to the FBI, I don't remember if they were white supremacists or separatists, and he didn't like them and he didn't like doing it. He refused to do anything like that again.
He didnt agree to deliver several sawed off shotguns to the undercover agent?
Your statement was that he delivered a sawed off shotgun to a white supremacist. You have not established that the FBI agent was pretending to be a white supremacist. The agent had to twist his arm for months to get him to do it.
He wasnt refusing to pay taxes to the government?
I have no idea. Is refusing to pay taxes something only white supremacists do?
Hmmm, OK. I thought the FBI was on the scene at the cabin almost immediately. There were numerous agents in the woods who had been surveilling them for months.
Today's nutcase is tomorrow's hero. Especially on Free Republic.
I’m still waiting for Martin to publish his national expose of FR. He’s going to take us down (in his own words.)
Alright you got me... it was only 3 including this one, but seemed like nine though, damn these crossed eyes... ;-)
Years ago Sean Hannity made some remarks on his show about how he did not post as vigorously to Free Republic as he once did because the atmosphere was "incomprehensible".
Weaver posed no threat to any government employee until the government surrounded his house. He was not dangerous, and in fact moved from Iowa to Idaho to escape govt harassment.
Also, his son didnt shoot an agent scouting the house. His son returned fire at an gent who shot and killed one of the hunting dogs because he didnt want to be seen. If the agent had not been afraid of getting spotted and not shot the dog, the son would have not killed the agent. As it was, the death of the agent sparked the resulting siege that let an FBI agent shoot a mother who was holding a baby.
Your questions are not the right ones. It is not whether or not he attended a meeting, sold a sawed off shotgun, or refused to pay taxes. The question is, do any of those things (including refusal to show up for court, which is what led the Marshalls there) warrant the government commandeering military weapons and equipment to have a multi front seige on your cabin in the woods?
Weaver wasnt even the guy they were trying to originally sting, it was his friend.
Ah ha! You really are from the mother ship! Now we know!
I guess he’s still drafting it.
That’s GOT to be a hard piece to write.
Geez, You got me again... missed my Hale Bop ride due to overcrowding... awaiting the next loop for my ride home.