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Aftermath'--William Shatner interviews Ruby Ridge massacre survivor
Examiner.com ^ | September 8th, 2010 | Anthony G. Martin

Posted on 09/08/2010 1:45:28 PM PDT by Copernicus

This report delineates the various atrocities--and their consequences--committed at the hands of a rogue federal government.

The gist of the atrocities committed in the government-initiated massacre can be summed up in the words of the FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson, who wrote the following memo at the time:

'Memo: OPR 004477 Something to Consider 1. Charge against Weaver is Bull $@it. 2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting. 3. Vicki has no charges against her. 4. Weaver's defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog. Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position."'

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; conservative; examiner; georgehwbush; rkba; rubyridge; weaver
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Apparently William Shatner has pulled back a real scab with his Ruby Ridge Interview.

Anthony Martin reviews all the evidence against the government with links and analysis.

Best regards to all,

1 posted on 09/08/2010 1:45:32 PM PDT by Copernicus
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To: Copernicus

“Anthony Martin reviews all the evidence”

Anthony Martin banned from Free Republic:

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/conservative-examiner-banned-from-free-republic


2 posted on 09/08/2010 1:51:35 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: Copernicus

Ah yes, the ol Janet Reno, Eric Holder day’z.

BBQ anyone?


3 posted on 09/08/2010 1:52:13 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Copernicus

I watched Shatner with Bernie Goetz and he was snarky. Goetz is a little off but Shatner is a jackball.


4 posted on 09/08/2010 1:52:54 PM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: Frantzie

I watched on Hulu. No TV. F TV.


5 posted on 09/08/2010 1:55:01 PM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: Copernicus

Shatner interviewed Sara Weaver, Randy Weaver’s eldest daughter. It was a good interview. She was very mature. I learned a few things I didn’t know. Highly recommended but also infuriating.


6 posted on 09/08/2010 2:01:22 PM PDT by matt1234 (The only crisis 0bama can manage is one he intentionally created.)
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To: humblegunner
He sounds like a decent guy. I know that I have complained about people that post snippets from their blogs in what seems to be a blatant attempt to generate hits, but I wasn't so all consumed as to stalk every one of their threads.

Some people on FR have way too much time on their typing hands.

7 posted on 09/08/2010 2:02:47 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear (These fragments I have shored against my ruins)
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To: Copernicus

Thread about Anthony martin getting banned:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-bloggers/2540034/posts


8 posted on 09/08/2010 2:03:21 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: humblegunner
Thanks, that is one I missed.

Sounds like the usual barroom brawl we have all come to know and love here at Free Republic.

Best regards,

9 posted on 09/08/2010 2:04:26 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: Copernicus

Interview was fair, mostly accurate, limited time I guess.


10 posted on 09/08/2010 2:05:49 PM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: Copernicus

Worth a re-examination and serves as a warning about the consequences of an out-of-control law enforcement agency. I generally support individuals in local police forces, FBI, DEA, etc. I am suspect, as a rule, of governmental organizations given the power to wield violence and curtail freedom. Too often, I believe, right-minded conservatives are a bit reflexive in their support of law enforcement because they share the ideal (as do I). The danger is when politics trumps the Constitution and common sense.

During the Clinton/Reno years, Ruby Ridge and Waco were clear examples of federal agencies picking fights and using insane levels of excessive force and character assassination with the full cooperation of the media. What must define a crime or a criminal is what one has done, never who someone is. When you dispassionately research both cases and put aside any emotional reaction (pro or con) to the beliefs of the Weaver family or the Koresh-led sect, the actions of those groups never came close to justifying the military-style attacks they faced.

It scares me when the Feds can blur the lines and ignore the rules if the target of an investigation or raid is deemed a ‘wacko’. As the vilification of mainstream ‘Tea Partiers’ has shown, it is easy to convince a large part of the public that anyone who has too severe a degree of explicit whiteness or anti-government sentiment in their views is to be considered a non-person and deserving of government wrath...


11 posted on 09/08/2010 2:07:02 PM PDT by Cap74 (You can disagree with me. You can attack me. Do not lie to me.)
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To: matt1234; Mrs. Frogjerk

Ditto.


12 posted on 09/08/2010 2:08:48 PM PDT by frogjerk (I believe in unicorns, fairies and pro-life Democrats.)
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To: Copernicus
Sara is a wonderful young woman. I met her a few years back with Randy. This old hard a$$ could only grasp their hands (with tears in my eyes) and apologized for what the Government did to them.....wasn't enough.

Sara is on this trip preaching forgiveness for the murderer Hourichi and the other Federal scumbags. That is good for her and I hope she finds peace. For me it did just scratch the scab off of a wound that was only now barely beginning to heal..

13 posted on 09/08/2010 2:09:54 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: Cap74

I would add the Elian Gonzalez incident to your list of troubling actions.

That case should have weaved it’s way through the courts. The Leftists love that process until it comes up in a manner that doesn’t suit their objectives.

That jack-boot scene shouldn’t please anyone, whether they wanted Elian to go back to Cuba or not.


14 posted on 09/08/2010 2:13:02 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (UniTea! It's not Rs vs Ds you dimwits. It's Cs vs Ls. Cut the crap & lets build for success.)
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To: All

Isn’t this about the 10th thread in one week about this same interview? Ok maybe I went overboard on my estimation, its not 10... but at least nine. ;-)


15 posted on 09/08/2010 2:14:24 PM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: servantboy777

Actually this happened under GHW Bush.


16 posted on 09/08/2010 2:15:26 PM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
I'll never forgive Lon Horiuchi (sp?), and I'd bet millions of Americans are on board with me on that.
17 posted on 09/08/2010 2:16:16 PM PDT by I Buried My Guns (Novare Res!)
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To: mad_as_he$$
I met Randy Weaver at a book signing, gosh, at least 8-9 years ago.

He seemed to be a real straight shooter.

It hard to imagine what he went through while on his own property minding his own business.

Best regards,

18 posted on 09/08/2010 2:16:37 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: servantboy777; Issaquahking; Lurker; All

“Ah yes, the ol Janet Reno, Eric Holder day’z.”

Actually, no....that was a George HW Bush deal.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1885154/posts

[snip]Actually, Ruby Ridge occured under President George H. W. Bush and his Attorney General in 1992.

Janet Reno did not take over DOJ until 1993.


19 posted on 09/08/2010 2:17:46 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: AvOrdVet
This is the 2nd Thread I posted.

Got links to the others?

Best regards,

20 posted on 09/08/2010 2:18:04 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Sara is on this trip preaching forgiveness for the murderer Hourichi and the other Federal scumbags.

I'll forgive Horiuchi when his brains are all over a wall or when he voluntarily enters prison. Not before.

21 posted on 09/08/2010 2:20:23 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Cap74

“During the Clinton/Reno years, Ruby Ridge and Waco were clear examples of federal agencies picking fights and using insane levels of excessive force and character assassination with the full cooperation of the media”

Ruby Ridge happened under George H.W. Bush. Clinton just followed suit.
See post 19


22 posted on 09/08/2010 2:20:34 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Cap74

August 21, 1992 - George HW Bush was President.


23 posted on 09/08/2010 2:21:41 PM PDT by Rocky Mountain High
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To: AuntB
Yes, an important fact frequently forgotten by the many and remembered by the few.

Best regards,

24 posted on 09/08/2010 2:22:19 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: servantboy777

That was during Bush 1’s days


25 posted on 09/08/2010 2:26:56 PM PDT by Rocky Mountain High
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To: servantboy777

That was during Bush 1’s days


26 posted on 09/08/2010 2:26:56 PM PDT by Rocky Mountain High
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To: Copernicus
Too bad those who stayed at Waco won't be able to give an interview.

Wasn't the same FBI guy involved with both assaults?

27 posted on 09/08/2010 2:27:02 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: servantboy777

Actually, this happened under Bush in August of 1992.

Though some of the same characters, including Lon Horiuchi, were invoved in Waco, the main political actors in Ruby Ridge were:

Idaho Gov (D) Cecil Andrus, Carter’s Secy of Interior, who allowed the FBI to use National Guard equipment (military equipment to siege 1 family in a shack)

USMS Wayne Smith, FBI HRT Commander Richard Rogers, US Attny Ron Howen used false reports of gunfire at a helicopter (the helicopter pilot said it didnt happen) as justification for the ROE and a charge of Conspiracy Against the Fed Gov

The judge who kept the bench warrant active for Weaver’s failure to meet the court date, even though Weaver was sent 2 letters with 2 dates.

FBI Director during the situation William Sessions, also Director for Waco.

Attorneys General for duration of case Dick Thornburgh and William Barr.


28 posted on 09/08/2010 2:28:02 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Lurker

With you on that.


29 posted on 09/08/2010 2:28:14 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: TexasCajun
It is frequently alleged Sniper Lon Horiuchi was an active shooter at both incidents.

Only your government knows for sure.

Best regards,

30 posted on 09/08/2010 2:29:40 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: Copernicus
4. Weaver's defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog. Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position."'

It has been a long time since I read the accounts of what happened but the above is entirely wrong IIRC. Randy Weaver was not with his son, Samuel, and Harris who were out hunting. One FBI agent was hidden in the underbrush wearing a ghillie suit. The dog, which belonged to Samuel, started barking at the hidden agent. The agent, fearing exposure, shot the dog.

Samuel shot in the direction the shots had come from not knowing who had shot his dog or whether he and Harris were under fire also. He shot the agent. Samuel was wounded by return fire from the agent. Harris and Samuel ran back to the cabin. I don't recall if Harris carried him back but he was carrying him when he got to the property and put him in a shed near the house. Samuel may have been dead at that point.

31 posted on 09/08/2010 2:35:27 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: Copernicus
So Weaver wasnt swing off shotguns for White Supremacists? Hmmm

And the damn ZOG agents killed him....

32 posted on 09/08/2010 2:35:43 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: DainBramage
So Weaver wasnt swing off shotguns for White Supremacists? Hmmm

No, he sawed one off for an FBI agent. I don't think the agent presented himself as a White Supremacist.

33 posted on 09/08/2010 2:39:01 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: TigersEye
It may refresh your memory to hear Sara Weaver's account on the Hulu webcast of Shatner's Aftermath.

That is what has brought all this bubbling back to the surface, apparently in a fairly big way.

Best regards,

34 posted on 09/08/2010 2:39:28 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: TigersEye

As I recall you post is basically correct except that they were Us marshals, not FBI. The FBI was called in after the Marshall was killed.


35 posted on 09/08/2010 2:41:54 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: TexasCajun

Yes.


36 posted on 09/08/2010 2:43:06 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: TigersEye
He wasnt at a white supremacist meeting? He didnt agree to deliver several sawed off shotguns to the undercover agent? He wasnt refusing to pay taxes to the government?

See... Weaver, however tragic the death of his wife and son, was no hero. He was an asshole who drug his family into alot of crap.

I agree the government screwed the pooch big time after his son shot one of the agents scouting the house, but Weaver is no hero.

37 posted on 09/08/2010 2:46:04 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Copernicus
The accounts I have read were given by Harris and Randy Weaver. Sara Weaver ought to know how the story goes but she was a young child and they weren't. I also don't think what I quoted from the article was a direct quote from Sara Weaver but I will watch the interview and see what she says.

FWIW the author of the article, Anthony Martin, is a nutcase.

38 posted on 09/08/2010 2:47:51 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: DainBramage
You should really watch the Shatner Interview on Hulu.

It covers a lot of ground in a comprehensive way.

Best regards,

39 posted on 09/08/2010 2:49:49 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: DainBramage
And the damn ZOG agents killed him....

Randy Weaver survived. His wife and son were killed by gov't agents. Randy and a friend were wounded. One gov't agent was killed.

In the Shatner interview, they said that the gov't suspended their usual ROE allowing the gov't to shoot first at anyone who was armed. This permission was in effect regardless of whether there was an immediate threat, if I understood it correctly.

40 posted on 09/08/2010 2:50:10 PM PDT by matt1234 (The only crisis 0bama can manage is one he intentionally created.)
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To: DainBramage
He wasnt at a white supremacist meeting?

He was talked into going to one picnic held by some people of interest to the FBI, I don't remember if they were white supremacists or separatists, and he didn't like them and he didn't like doing it. He refused to do anything like that again.

He didnt agree to deliver several sawed off shotguns to the undercover agent?

Your statement was that he delivered a sawed off shotgun to a white supremacist. You have not established that the FBI agent was pretending to be a white supremacist. The agent had to twist his arm for months to get him to do it.

He wasnt refusing to pay taxes to the government?

I have no idea. Is refusing to pay taxes something only white supremacists do?

41 posted on 09/08/2010 2:52:46 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Hmmm, OK. I thought the FBI was on the scene at the cabin almost immediately. There were numerous agents in the woods who had been surveilling them for months.


42 posted on 09/08/2010 2:55:00 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: TigersEye
Well, I can not say I have read everything Martin has written but I find a lot of his material to be useful and informative.

Today's nutcase is tomorrow's hero. Especially on Free Republic.

Best regards,

43 posted on 09/08/2010 2:56:16 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: Copernicus; humblegunner

I’m still waiting for Martin to publish his national expose of FR. He’s going to take us down (in his own words.)


44 posted on 09/08/2010 2:58:16 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: Copernicus

Alright you got me... it was only 3 including this one, but seemed like nine though, damn these crossed eyes... ;-)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2583784/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2582708/posts


45 posted on 09/08/2010 3:01:19 PM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: TigersEye
Oh no! Did I miss that one too?

Years ago Sean Hannity made some remarks on his show about how he did not post as vigorously to Free Republic as he once did because the atmosphere was "incomprehensible".

Best regards,

46 posted on 09/08/2010 3:02:25 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: DainBramage

Weaver posed no threat to any government employee until the government surrounded his house. He was not dangerous, and in fact moved from Iowa to Idaho to escape govt harassment.

Also, his son didnt shoot an agent scouting the house. His son returned fire at an gent who shot and killed one of the hunting dogs because he didnt want to be seen. If the agent had not been afraid of getting spotted and not shot the dog, the son would have not killed the agent. As it was, the death of the agent sparked the resulting siege that let an FBI agent shoot a mother who was holding a baby.

Your questions are not the right ones. It is not whether or not he attended a meeting, sold a sawed off shotgun, or refused to pay taxes. The question is, do any of those things (including refusal to show up for court, which is what led the Marshalls there) warrant the government commandeering military weapons and equipment to have a multi front seige on your cabin in the woods?

Weaver wasnt even the guy they were trying to originally sting, it was his friend.


47 posted on 09/08/2010 3:06:21 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: AvOrdVet
So you crossed all three eyes and came up with nine?

Ah ha! You really are from the mother ship! Now we know!

Best regards,

48 posted on 09/08/2010 3:07:44 PM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: TigersEye

I guess he’s still drafting it.

That’s GOT to be a hard piece to write.


49 posted on 09/08/2010 3:08:11 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: Copernicus

Geez, You got me again... missed my Hale Bop ride due to overcrowding... awaiting the next loop for my ride home.


50 posted on 09/08/2010 3:11:11 PM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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