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Panel Video: Can Conservatism Survive Mass Immigration?
Center for Immigration Studies ^ | September, 2010

Posted on 09/11/2010 12:29:38 PM PDT by T.L.Sink

These remarkable videos feature such prominent conservatives as Ramesh Ponnuru, Mark Krikorian, James G. Gimpel, David Frum and Bryan Griffith. The issue discussed is not Republicans vs. Democrats because some Republicans are as weak on border security as most Democrats. Rather, the discussion centers on the threat to conservatism because the political left views the hordes illegal aliens as potential allies. And, accordingly, the very culture and social structure of America may at risk with escalating costs for bankrupt public school districts, insolvent hospitals, social welfare costs, prison incarcerations, and the human and financial ravages of the drug cartel - not to mention the chaos of a bi-lingual society.

(Excerpt) Read more at cis.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: aliens

1 posted on 09/11/2010 12:29:40 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: T.L.Sink

I actually wrote an essay about this and how conservatives must reach out to these new immigrants, who have a lot more in common with us then than liberals, or the balance of power could be shifted for many, many years. This is an extremely important issue for the gop, tea party, etc to address.


2 posted on 09/11/2010 12:32:24 PM PDT by xuberalles ("The Right Stuff" Conservative Novelties http://www.zazzle.com/xuberalles)
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To: T.L.Sink

Hell, the United States can’t survive massive immigration. It will cease to be the US and will instead just be another third-world hell hole.


3 posted on 09/11/2010 12:33:53 PM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: T.L.Sink

THey’re trying to flood the US with “mass immigration” to erase our boarders rather than what we have traiditionally done with the “melting pot” which strengthens American values and conservative philosophy!


4 posted on 09/11/2010 12:36:24 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Battle Ground Vermont..if we make Leahy a toss-up then all Dems are in trouble..)
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To: ought-six

I agree, either Conservatism is able to survive, or nothing survives, and my tagline will become reality.


5 posted on 09/11/2010 12:36:54 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years)
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To: ought-six

If we had the culture and attitudes of yesteryear, then conservatism and America would survive.

But with today’s attitudes of not wanting to assimilate, trying to create enclaves from other countries in which people don’t speak English and maintain separate lives, will make it hard for America to survive.

And it’s somewhat ironic to talk about conservatism, because many immigrants are socially conservative, and believe in strong families, and self reliance and other good values. But the “ghetto” attitudes unfortunately can infect them and especially their children, with an attitude of entitlement.


6 posted on 09/11/2010 12:37:43 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: T.L.Sink

A nation without borders is not a nation but a territory to be colonized.


7 posted on 09/11/2010 12:39:40 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: xuberalles

I am sure that MecHa and Aztlan and the reconquista are rooting for us. lol.


8 posted on 09/11/2010 12:40:31 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: T.L.Sink

Impossible.

The language is totally alien.

One example: “Please”.

In English this has a very understood meaning: It means, “Because you are good and charitable, I am asking you to undertake this act, of your own good conscience, without any reward or payment or debt. Charity.” PLEASE.

In the Spanish, they tell us this means Por Favor.

It does not! The meaning is actually 100% opposite at it’s core and this is why we are doomed as a free people.

Por Favor. Means, I beg of you from my need and your plenty. Because you have and I have not, I will submit, and owe you a debt a favor in return for your act. Por Favor.

In English was have grace, charity and generosity without thought of dept or repayment. We do good deeds because we are good.

In Spanish, there is no grace, no charity, it is submission, debt, payment, they do it not because they are good, but we beg them because they are powerful over us.

Those are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT concepts of the heart. You cannot translate them away. You cannot excuse them.

One of those thoughts leads to liberty. The other to servitude.

The cultures are entirely incompatible!


9 posted on 09/11/2010 12:41:36 PM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Welcome to "The Hunt for Red November".)
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To: T.L.Sink

I understand that during the era of mass migration to the US, about 1/3 of the immigrants could not succeed in America and return home or left for other countries. Also, not all of the people who came to American were admitted. Immigrants who were known criminals or who had TB etc were turned away.

Although there has not been a lot a press about it, we FRs know that the Labour Party in Britain favored almost unlimited immigration to keep themselves in power and reduce the influence of Judeo-Christian beliefs and mores on British society.


10 posted on 09/11/2010 12:45:20 PM PDT by Maine Mariner
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To: T.L.Sink

The last great waves of immigration — the Germans, Italians, Irish, and others — came here to escape bad economies, repressive or dangerous governments, for religious reasons, and for other freedoms lacking in their own homeland.

I submit these are essentially conservative values. Surely, some come to get on the free welfare benefits train, but most — even now — come for a chance at opportunity their homelands make difficult or impossible.

I wouldn’t be so sure these new legal immigrants are solid leftist. In a little time, they might become very conservative in our political sense.


11 posted on 09/11/2010 12:51:30 PM PDT by William of Barsoom (In Omnia, Paratus)
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To: T.L.Sink

No, especially when it is combined with NEA-sponsored mass education.


12 posted on 09/11/2010 12:59:25 PM PDT by Defiant (Liberals care more about the Koran than they did about Terri Schiavo.)
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To: William of Barsoom

Don’t call me Shirley.


13 posted on 09/11/2010 1:03:35 PM PDT by tumblindice (Everything's gone to the dogs)
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To: T.L.Sink
such prominent conservatives as Ramesh Ponnuru, Mark Krikorian, James G. Gimpel, David Frum and Bryan Griffith

Is this meant to be a joke?

14 posted on 09/11/2010 1:12:29 PM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: RachelFaith
The cultures are entirely incompatible!

Spot on and well said.

Illegal or otherwise, Mexicans just refuse to become genuine Americans. They continue cling to their third-world "culture" and are anti-assimilation. They have already destroyed California and are in the process doing the same in Texas. I see evidence of it daily.

15 posted on 09/11/2010 1:16:54 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas...)
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To: xuberalles

I would support a mass immigration of white South Africans - millions of them.

Why?

Because they are literate and many well educated, speak English, most have skills and are already familiar with Western values and representative government. They will fit in well with our nation.

These people are now being murdered, persecuted, by black nationalistic political groups in South Africa.

Lets not just talk diversity, lets actually practice it in our immigration population. We need more diversity in immigrants.


16 posted on 09/11/2010 1:17:18 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: Balding_Eagle
” (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years)”

Your tag line captures the essence of the situation. If America fails, that means freedom and self-determination fail. I believe that if America fails meaningful liberty and self-determination will not be restored on the planet without war and bloodshed.

17 posted on 09/11/2010 1:20:55 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: T.L.Sink

America cannot survive mass invasion.

Conservatives have known it for quite some time.

Leftists will not know it until they are subjected to sharia law or are living in a latino burrio with machete wielding thugs on every side.


18 posted on 09/11/2010 1:31:55 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: xuberalles

Exactly. If we

1. make it much harder to get government assistance, i.e. reserve it for the truly needy, not just fat, lazy pigs who sit around eating junk food, watching Oprah, and pumping out illegitimate children,

2. reserve it ONLY for citizens,

3. force welfare offices to verify the immigration status of ALL that enter their offices

4. force employers to verify the status of all employees

5. make the penalty for hiring an illegal alien $10,000 for each offense for the first time and permanent loss of business license the second time,

THEN, the lazy ones will self deport to their home country and the hard workers will try to conform with the law. We can then have a bunch of immigrants who value hard work and honesty over government handouts.


19 posted on 09/11/2010 1:38:55 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: re_nortex
Illegal or otherwise, Mexicans just refuse to become genuine Americans. They continue cling to their third-world "culture" and are anti-assimilation.

America's only chance with Hispanics or any immigrant group it seems, is to convert them to our historical native religion which is Protestant Christianity.

When Hispanics become Protestants they become pro-life conservatives and start voting Republican or at least close to 50/50, it also seems to apply to Asians and all other immigrant groups.

20 posted on 09/11/2010 1:43:20 PM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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To: GeronL
A nation without borders is not a nation but a territory to be colonized.

T-shirt material right there.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

21 posted on 09/11/2010 2:02:48 PM PDT by The Comedian
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To: The Comedian

I think its totally true and I think we are being colonized


22 posted on 09/11/2010 2:19:41 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: Maine Mariner

You’re right about previous immigrants. They were, even in the days of heaviest immigration from Europe, screened carefully. A perfect example is Charles Steinmetz who came here from Germany and was a mathematical genius and the engineer who developed alternating current. He was almost rejected for entry (had to appeal) because he was a hunchback. This was the norm, not the exception.


23 posted on 09/11/2010 4:55:49 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: xuberalles

I have nothing against reaching out to new immigrants provided they arrive legally and are eager to assimilate. But the situation now is such that we’re being flooded with unskilled illegal aliens who have been encouraged by pandering politicians to expect our culture to ADAPT TO THEM rather than vice versa. Heritage (especially the extensive research of Robert Rector) and other think tanks have demonstrated that illegals clearly cost us more economically than they contribute.


24 posted on 09/11/2010 5:08:45 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: William of Barsoom

I think you make a good point. Previous immigrants came here to take advantage of the land of OPPORTUNITY and were eager to be assimilated into it. And after a generation or two these “immigrants” were as American as pizza pie and proud of it!


25 posted on 09/11/2010 5:19:47 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: SharpRightTurn

Absolutely right! Any routine glance at history proves what you say. Cultures, for short-sighted and illusory ‘benefits,’ help destroy themselves. “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” — Arnold Toynbee


26 posted on 09/11/2010 5:31:03 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: Blood of Tyrants; xuberalles; The Comedian; All

“In the first place, we should insist that the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room but for one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is loyalty to the American people.”

THEODORE ROOSEVELT (1906)


27 posted on 09/11/2010 6:02:46 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: T.L.Sink
Not a chance in hell!

In our past history, immigrants were seeking individual economic and intellectual freedom and contributed enormously to the Nation's well-being...The last ones of this type to arrive here were the so-called "boat" people and others out of S.E. Asia.

The LBJ marxists changed the immigration quota laws in the 60's. The sign was out: "Only parasites need apply".

Since then, the arrivals are predominantly made up of those seeking freedom to live off the government dole under a better marxist system than the one they left...

The result? Check the WH!

28 posted on 09/11/2010 6:46:57 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: T.L.Sink

No we will not survive here when the European descended majority is eclipsed.

We will become Brasil.

I hope the no balls crowd is then happy.


29 posted on 09/11/2010 7:20:32 PM PDT by wardaddy (I'm ashamed of this nation and it's culture....we have lost our soul....weak..weak..weak)
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To: SuperLuminal

I’m glad you mentioned Asians. The Asian immigrants generally are hard working, intelligent, and excell academically. They contribute to our economy by their participation in business and all the professions and, unlike the illegals, don’t end up on the dole. They bring with them civilized values and as a matter of personal pride aspire to be the best they can be. In other words, they have cultural values and aren’t a subculture.


30 posted on 09/11/2010 7:47:51 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: wardaddy; All

Good point. It isn’t PC to say it but it’s true: societies that are largely homogenious survive better than those which are heterogenious and have large competing minority groups with different values and aspirations. It’s no accident that “balkanized” has become part of our language - look at the the history of the Balkan states and their bitter conflicts that still continue to rage to this very day - all because of ethnic, religious, and cultural differences. We’re a larger country but how many millions of aliens can we absorb before this happens. We see the signs of conflict emerging already. Even Karl Marx said that after a point QUANTITY irrevocably changes QUALITY. The past is prologue.


31 posted on 09/11/2010 8:11:05 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: xuberalles

I think it is a fantasy to think conservatives can attract third world immigrants. True, if you can isolate specific social issues, like gay marriage or abortion, you will get their vote. But, IMO, most third world immigrants will otherwise always vote for the person who promises to confiscate the most money from Whitey and give it to them.


32 posted on 09/11/2010 8:17:09 PM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: T.L.Sink
Absolutely! The contributions to our science and technology is important as well.

Other important statistics include excellent educational performance and abscence from the welfare roles.

For an old 76-year-old codger like me, it is reminiscent of European immigrant contributions in the 30's, 40's, and 50's....IMHO...

33 posted on 09/11/2010 10:03:04 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: T.L.Sink; William of Barsoom
And after a generation or two these “immigrants” were as American as pizza pie and proud of it!

That is a myth, track the native Protestant vote versus the immigrant Catholic vote for the last hundred years, or 170 years, since Catholics started arriving in America.

Why do you think that the immigration laws were changed in the 1920s to stop Catholics, and then changed again when the Catholics got power in the 1960s to bring in Mexicans?

34 posted on 09/11/2010 10:29:25 PM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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To: ansel12

ouch...that one will leave a mark on many but so true


35 posted on 09/12/2010 12:54:49 AM PDT by wardaddy (I'm ashamed of this nation and it's culture....we have lost our soul....weak..weak..weak)
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To: ansel12

I never suggested our immigration process was flawless and without any prejudices or bumps along the way. That’s just the reality of imperfect human nature. But historically it was a great success and European and Asian immigrants were assimilated in a remarkably short period of time by historical standards. With respect to the religious discrimination you referenced this, too, was simply a part of the process of being accepted with progressive assimilation. By the way, until Utopia arrives there will always be some prejudices and tensions in EVERY social order. But America has been the most successful culture in the world when it comes to accepting those seeking opportunity.


36 posted on 09/12/2010 8:05:05 AM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: T.L.Sink

That sure had nothing to do with my post, who was that supposed to be to?


37 posted on 09/12/2010 11:56:18 AM PDT by ansel12 ([fear of Islam.] Once you are paralyzed by fear of Mohammedanism...you have lost the battle.)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

Ping!


38 posted on 09/12/2010 4:47:26 PM PDT by HiJinx (I can see November from my front porch - and Mexico from the back.)
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To: ought-six
It will cease to be the US and will instead just be another third-world hell hole

Exhibit A: Los Angeles, California, AD 2010

39 posted on 09/12/2010 4:56:02 PM PDT by Regulator (Watch Out!! The Americans are On the March!! America Forever, Mexico Never!)
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To: xuberalles
The problem is illegal aliens, not immigrants.

The problem is also the origin and number of illegals, which is unknown. , My estimate is 20-25 million. The problem is their children. That brings us to over 50 million new comers. It compounds. Since the problem began in the mid-1960s, the United States have become Latino-ized to an unthinkable degree. In 100 years, we will be the northernmost country in Latin America. That would be true if all immigration from el mundo hispano, legal and illegal, were to stop at midnight, tonight.

Having paid no taxes, they place their wrongly citizen-ized offspring in public schools and soak up social services that traditionally went in other directions.

The problem is that the illegals and their "citizen" children now far outnumber the US' traditional minority group, the African-Americans, effectively doubling, or even tripling the welfare burden in some states.

The Democrats benefit, because arriving with utterly no resources, this group is pathetically easy to manipulate. The conflict is going to increasingly become one of welfare-warfare, as the African-Americans and these newcomers vie for benefits, and a place on the Affirmative Action gravy train, to which both are legally entitled. (The other problem in every governmental unit in the US, at what ever level, it can be increasingly difficult to find a heterosexual male of European heritage!)

The unsolved mystery is, "where's the money supposed to come from?" The other mystery is,"why do people in the 21st Century insist upon trying to find parallels with this mass migration and population exchange, with 19th and 20th century immigration from Europe?"

.... conservatives must reach out Given the numbers, we'll be lucky if they decide to reach out to us ... or eventually put us in petting zoos as historic anthropological exhibits.

40 posted on 09/13/2010 6:32:39 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Revive The Poll Tax and Literacy Requirement for voter registration.)
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To: xuberalles
I actually wrote an essay about this and how conservatives must reach out to these new immigrants, who have a lot more in common with us then than liberals, or the balance of power could be shifted for many, many years. This is an extremely important issue for the gop, tea party, etc to address.

How do they "reach out" without pandering and at the same time pissing off the conservatives in this country?

41 posted on 09/13/2010 6:37:19 AM PDT by raybbr (Someone who invades another country is NOT an immigrant - illegal or otherwise.)
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To: HiJinx; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

Ping


42 posted on 09/13/2010 6:37:40 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Revive The Poll Tax and Literacy Requirement for voter registration.)
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