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Fire retardant drops come under scrutiny in West (Judge to ban firefighting chemicals)
Associated Press ^ | September 11, 2010 | Jason Dearen And Dan Elliott

Posted on 09/12/2010 4:38:56 AM PDT by Zakeet

Lost in the images of aircraft dropping giant red plumes of retardant on a Colorado wildfire this week is the fact that the practice may not be legal under federal environmental laws.

A federal judge in July declared that the government's current plan for dropping retardant on fires is illegal, and he gave the U.S. Forest Service until the end of next year to find a more environmentally friendly alternative.

The aerial assaults have become a permanent fixture of television and media coverage of wildfires in recent years as planes and helicopters drop big loads of red chemicals over blazes. But environmentalists say the efforts are essentially public relations stunts that can send millions of gallons of hazardous chemicals into waterways while doing little to contain fires.

The fire retardant used to battle wildfires is 85 percent water, and the rest is made up of fertilizer and an anti-corrosion chemical meant to protect the air tankers that carry it. It also contains a red dye to help fire crews see the drops as they fall to the ground.

When mixed with water, the fertilizer component helps deprive wildfires of oxygen. But when dumped or dropped in a creek or lake, it can kill fish and plants.

"Just as any farmer knows not to drop liquid fertilizer in a creek or they'll go to jail ... retardant should not be dropped into a creek with a threatened or endangered species," said Andy Stahl of Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics, which brought the lawsuit that led to the judge's ruling earlier this year.

U.S. District Judge Donald W. Molloy in Missoula, Mont., wrote that government analyses of the practice violated the Endangered Species Act by failing to put any real limits on firefighters from calling in retardant drops.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: activism; court; environment; fire

Clinton appointed judge: In an emergency where people's lives are in danger, environmental concerns can no longer take a back seat to firefighting.

1 posted on 09/12/2010 4:39:00 AM PDT by Zakeet
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To: Zakeet

America..stuck on stupid.


2 posted on 09/12/2010 4:40:21 AM PDT by DeusExMachina05 (I will not go into Dhimmitude quietly.)
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To: Zakeet

3 posted on 09/12/2010 4:41:16 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Things will change after the revolution, but not before.)
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To: Zakeet

One can only wonder , can a dead judge make biased environmental decisions?


4 posted on 09/12/2010 4:41:29 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Greetings Jacques. The revolution is coming)
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To: Zakeet

So now human lives aren’t worth the life of a “endangered” inch worm or any other such animal? Well, I guess, if humans aren’t aborted there are other ways to end their worthless lives as they pollute Gia. As an alternative to poluting chemicals, I think they should drop these elitist enviromental wackos on the fires.


5 posted on 09/12/2010 4:44:01 AM PDT by hal ogen (1st amendment or reeducation camp?)
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To: Zakeet

If they dyed the retardant a more appealing color, you would probably not hear from environmentalists. It is only because it is an un-natural red color that they protest.

Environmentalists are just not very smart.


6 posted on 09/12/2010 4:48:10 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: Zakeet

First they don’t allow controlled fires which would burn away debris and over growth and now they don’t want the fire put out....what is wrong with these folks. I truly believe that 95 percent of the fires in the west are due to ridiculous laws that have been passed. I can’t believe that people whose homes have been burned to the ground have not realized this and yell and scream this from the rooftop....oops I know why, they don’t have a rooftop any longer.


7 posted on 09/12/2010 4:54:42 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: Zakeet
But when dumped or dropped in a creek or lake, it can kill fish and plants.

As if wildfires don’t kill plants and animals!

8 posted on 09/12/2010 4:55:33 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Zakeet

How about we drop him on a fire. He looks retardant enough.


9 posted on 09/12/2010 4:57:20 AM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: Zakeet

give the judge an axe, a shovel and tell HIM to get with it and stop the flames


10 posted on 09/12/2010 4:58:21 AM PDT by SF_Redux
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To: ClearCase_guy

Burn, baby burn


11 posted on 09/12/2010 5:04:40 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: Zakeet

Good Grief, we had fires in the TX Hill Country a few years ago, and fire retardant was dropped. My place in the country was the nicest green after that. I loved getting the free fertilizer, plus not having my place burn down.


12 posted on 09/12/2010 5:05:05 AM PDT by sockmonkey
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To: Zakeet
...and he gave the U.S. Forest Service until the end of next year to find a more environmentally friendly alternative.

These judges think they have the power to order people to create new chemicals, technologies, and scientific breakthroughs. If he has such power, why doesn't he just forbid the forest to have wildfires until the more 'environmentally friendly' alternative is created?

And sheesh, what kind of portrait is that for a Judge. It looks like a poster for an off-Broadway magician.

13 posted on 09/12/2010 5:07:51 AM PDT by Never on my watch (Why does the Left think Muslims are going to behave as Christians?)
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To: CPT Clay

I guess we will have to just load up the planes with korans and drop them on the fire.


14 posted on 09/12/2010 5:09:11 AM PDT by Never on my watch (Why does the Left think Muslims are going to behave as Christians?)
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To: Zakeet
But when dumped or dropped in a creek or lake, it can kill fish and plants.
As if they weren't already doomed by the fire.
15 posted on 09/12/2010 5:10:06 AM PDT by jmcenanly
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To: Never on my watch

They’ll be coming after your house/auto/boat fire extinguisher next.


16 posted on 09/12/2010 5:10:57 AM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: Never on my watch

They’ll be coming after your house/auto/boat fire extinguisher next.


17 posted on 09/12/2010 5:12:04 AM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: Zakeet

That guy looks full of himself. I wonder how long he practiced his Orson Welles pose in front of a mirror.

18 posted on 09/12/2010 5:20:12 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault (The Obama magic is <strike>fading</strike>gone.)
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To: Zakeet

The mope who filed the suit is a federal employee and he had no facts, only feelings. Isn’t that just great.


19 posted on 09/12/2010 5:20:18 AM PDT by Thebaddog (Shakey Jake said, " The hippies will never survive!")
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To: Zakeet
Andy Stahl of Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics, which brought the lawsuit that led to the judge's ruling earlier this year.

And we're also blessed to be enabling this loon via his day job funded with taxpayer dollars...
20 posted on 09/12/2010 5:22:15 AM PDT by BWDog
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To: hal ogen

No, I think there is a bigger fallacy here.

During a fire soot, smoke etc. fall out from the surrounding atmosphere and contaminate the creeks, rivers, lakes etc. too.

The kills are as much from the fire and its pollutants as the retardants.


21 posted on 09/12/2010 5:23:19 AM PDT by EBH (Our First Right...."it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,")
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To: bert
One can only wonder , can a dead judge make biased environmental decisions?

When it really hits the fan, the "progressive" judges must be the first to go.

22 posted on 09/12/2010 5:38:17 AM PDT by cayuga (Can the US survive an electorate stupid enough to send 0bama to the White House?)
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To: EBH

Oh wait. But that’s all organic and natural! /sarc


23 posted on 09/12/2010 5:39:53 AM PDT by SgtHooper
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To: Zakeet

There is a very simple solution to the problem if our “leaders” had the cajones to do so. The answer is: Don’t attempt to use anything other than dirt (water washes dangerous animal waste into the streams) to put the fire out. Of course, it wouldn’t but it would burn up enough homes, buildings, acreage, trees and animals to cause an outrage large enough to bring common sense to the environmentalists who currently have none.


24 posted on 09/12/2010 5:44:46 AM PDT by DH (The government writes no bill that does not line the pockets of special interests.)
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To: Right Wing Assault
I wonder how long he practiced his Orson Welles pose in front of a mirror buffet.
25 posted on 09/12/2010 6:24:10 AM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: hal ogen

Aren’t plants or fish in danger of dying from the wildfire anyway?


26 posted on 09/12/2010 6:32:54 AM PDT by moondoggie
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To: hal ogen

Aren’t plants or fish in danger of dying from the wildfire anyway?


27 posted on 09/12/2010 6:43:03 AM PDT by moondoggie
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To: NewHampshireDuo

They’ll be coming after your house/auto/boat fire extinguisher next

They already have, Don’t have a Halon fire extinguisher anywhere.


28 posted on 09/12/2010 6:49:41 AM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: Zakeet
The fire suppressant they use has fertilizer in it to slow the fire and to facilitate plants after the fire is out. The retardant is designed with cost and effectiveness in mind. The carbon and silt left over after the fire when washed into the streams will also kill fish. Fishermen kill fish. Eagles kill fish. Bears kill fish. We must all become fish.
29 posted on 09/12/2010 6:56:00 AM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: EBH

You can add to that the fish kills caused by run-off in the following years.


30 posted on 09/12/2010 7:23:58 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: BWDog
So more manhours and lost ground to fires simply for union pocket lining.
31 posted on 09/12/2010 7:27:43 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: Zakeet

“When mixed with water, the fertilizer component helps deprive wildfires of oxygen. But when dumped or dropped in a creek or lake, it can kill fish and plants.”

So, let me get this straight. Fertilzer MIGHT kill fish and plants, whereas we KNOW wildfire definitely kills fish and plants.

This makes total sense if your goal is to definitely kill fish and plants. Also, you have the added benefit of killing people and destroying their houses, which is what the environmental loonies are really after.


32 posted on 09/12/2010 7:40:07 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Made from the Right Stuff!)
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To: napscoordinator
"I truly believe that 95 percent of the fires in the west are due to ridiculous laws that have been passed."

It's deliberate. They want as many places as possible to be depopulated. This is just one of many ways to achieve that goal.

33 posted on 09/12/2010 7:44:10 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Zakeet
'Someone' should round up this 'judge', the eco-Nazis who filed the suit and DROP THEM into the next forest fire.

They'll all be issued: One Parachute, One Entrenching Tool, One 'Swiss Army' Knife, and One Canteen of water. 'The judge' will be in command, and as such will be additionally issued: One Two-way Radio, One Map, One Compass and One Roll of Toilet paper, color - white.

When these do-gooders put the fire out with 'their Eco friendly equipment', they can call for extraction via the radio. Or if they fail, they can all poop and go blind, wipe their butt with the toilet paper, then kiss it goodbye and die in the fire.

Morons, all of them.

34 posted on 09/12/2010 8:11:14 AM PDT by Condor51 (SAT CONG!)
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To: mountainlion
We must all become fish.

Great perspective on this whole thing! That's it in a soundbite.

35 posted on 09/12/2010 8:13:25 AM PDT by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: Zakeet

I’m thinking a boiling stream is probably pretty bad for the fish as well.


36 posted on 09/12/2010 10:03:55 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Dr.Deth
in front of a buffet

Ha, ha! That too!

37 posted on 09/12/2010 7:32:38 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (The Obama magic is <strike>fading</strike>gone.)
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