Skip to comments.Feds target 60 hunters in Kansas hunting probe
Posted on 09/14/2010 6:09:55 PM PDT by SkyPilot
WICHITA, Kan. (AP)The Justice Department is targeting more than 60 hunters across the nation for allegedly poaching deer during guided hunts at Camp Lone Star in Kansas, a court document shows.
The scope of the grand jury investigation, believed to be one of the largest criminal prosecutions involving the illegal taking of deer, was made public in a court filing Monday in the federal governments case against the camps owner and his brother, both of Martinsville, Texas.
James Bobby Butler Jr., 41, the owner and operator of the hunting club in Coldwater, Kan., and his brother Marlin Jackson Butler, 36, who worked as a guide, are charged with conspiracy and the unlawful sale and transport of wildlife. James Butler is also charged with obstruction of justice in the 23-count indictment filed May 25 in U.S. District Court in Wichita.
If convicted and given maximum sentences, they could face lengthy prison terms. Jim Cross, spokesman for the U.S. Attorneys Office in Kansas, said in an e-mail that it was the biggest case of its kind prosecuted in the state.
However, James Butlers attorney Kurt Kerns calls the legal action ridiculous.
The state of Kansas has paid out over $100,000 to independent contractors to thin the Kansas deer herd for management purposes, Kerns said in an e-mail. And now our tax money is being spent making federal cases out of alleged rednecks who supposedly harvest an extra deer.
Statistics compiled by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service show the nation has 10.3 million big game hunters. About 12 percent, or 1.3 million people, hunt outside of their state of residence. Kansas is a popular destination, drawing an estimated 88,000 out-of-state hunters each year.
(Excerpt) Read more at sports.yahoo.com ...
Obama sent a grand total of thirty troops to Arizona after it pleaded for help.
The Feds will put you in prison for up to 8 years for selling lobsters that are too small, but won't do ANYTHING about illegal aliens.
The headline on Drudge is that Harry Reid is attaching amnesty to the Defense Bill (a bill that usually passes with bipartisan support). The Dems have also passed the sodomy bill to the Defense Bill. These people are shameless.
We prosecute the innocent, and give money to the guilty.
We are a nation under God's curse. Only prayer and His grace will bring us back from the brink of disaster we find ourselves in.
"When the wicked rise to power, people go into hiding; but when the wicked perish, the righteous thrive." - Proverbs 28:28
"When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan." - Proverbs 29:2
The American people are the prey/hunted.
The American people are the prey/hunted.
We’re turning into England. The peasants are pissing off the landlords.
We have to damn many deer here in Virginia. They’re destroying property and taking lives on the highway.
Naïve Americans tend to regard miscarriages of justice, such as the lobster import case, as rare examples of legal idiocy that somehow will be corrected by the legal system. However, such cases are routine and are seldom if ever corrected. In America today law enforcement boils down to the exercise of power by unaccountable prosecutors. Justice is not served by ensnaring the innocent. Married men who happen to own guns are being turned into felons by wives who ask for restraining orders when they file for divorce. Prosecutors interpret restraining orders as criminalizing prior gun ownership. A restraining order turns a law-abiding gun owner into a criminal. It is an example of unconstitutional ex post facto law at its worst. Americans are uninformed about the tyrannical nature of their criminal justice system. Until they become personally ensnared in the system, Americans believe that police and prosecutors would never convict an innocent person. Once they experience the system, Americans are terrified by the systems indifference to whether a defendant has committed a crime.
Don’t you realize, these are the kings deer
..MEANWHILE.... a billion to Mexico....60 billion worth of arms sold to the Saudi’s, and the new threat of government going after your 401k’s and IRA’S
How can this possibly be a Federal crime?
Will the Feds give the hunters a break if they give the venison to the illegals?
Are we running out of deer? Last I heard, we had too many.
Did you read the article?
I had a doe and fawn browse through my backyard about 3 hours ago.
Deer/auto accidents peak on Nov. 17
An inordinately high deer population also makes deer/vehicle accidents more likely, said Lloyd Fox, big game program coordinator for Kansas Wildlife & Parks. The number of deer in Kansas fluctuates from between 350,000 to 400,000.
According to KDOT, Kansans today are seven times more likely to collide with a deer while driving than in 1980. In 2001, 10,184 deer-vehicle accidents occurred in the state, or 13 percent of the total vehicle accidents reported. While no fatalities resulted, 418 persons were injured. There were only 1,395 deer/auto crashes in 1980.
The increase in crashes involving deer in Kansas mirrors a nationwide trend. Last year, there were about 1.5 million deer-automobile collisions in the U.S. More than 29,000 people were injured and 200 died. Property damage topped $1 billion.
This is complete and utter BS they need to do their damn jobs and Keep us free of Invaders!
Oh my. I would like to invite all illegal hunters to West Virginia.. We have more than our share of deer. Blasted rats with antlers.....
Yowza, my friends in Arkansas tell me it will be a bumper crop. No poachers. My pals are honest landowning deer slayers. They say the deer are thick and can’t wait until season starts.
Interstate Commerce Clause
"The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".
So there you have it. They can do ANYTHING because, well, it would affect commerce.
Your post reminded me of when my Uncle was still alive and lived in Colorado Springs, CO. He was in a wheel-chair by then, his wife had died, he was elderly, and he’d get lonely sometime. He still lived in the house he and his wife raised their kids in.
Where he lived, it was still a little bit rural, with a few old homes around. Some little deer would come into his yard at times. He would sit in his back-yard and feed them! They never really bothered him much, and he loved to have them there, as long as they didn’t get too numerous, and cause problems.
The animal control came around and told him not to feed them anymore! This bummed him out, but he tried to understand. I don’t know if they were bothering the neighbors, and one of them told on him, I don’t know. He was sad about it, but complied.
That made me sad too. When he was a bit younger, he would go deer hunting and fishing, etc.. I think he still would’ve if he could. Since he couldn’t, he would feed the little ones and the mothers instead, it gave him comfort.
It’s time to do something serious about it.
Its easier to hunt the deer hunters...than Panthers....and Illegal ALiens..?!!WTF!!!
more than 60 hunters across the nation for allegedly poaching deer during guided hunts at Camp Lone Star in Kansas
Allegedly the game meat in question was transported across a State line. That makes it a Federal matter. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just answering your question.
If the game was transported accross state lines by the purchaser, the seller was not involed in interstate trade.
But the law seldom stops the feds.
Do you buy hunting equipment and supplies? Do you buy a Kansas hunting license and permits?
Since the 1930s and the Pittman-Robertson Act, the treasury dept has collected a 12% excise tax on hunting equipment and supplies that they turn over 100% to USFW who grant it back to the states. With this money and the money that the states, in this case Kansas, collect on the licenses and permits, the state manages hunting, in this case the deer, in the state.
When Kansas thinned the herd, they used those funds to do it.
So, if you bought some hunting equipment and supplies, and paid the 12% excise tax, or you bought a Kansas License, then you contributed to thinning the herd.
So who did these inbred east Texas boys cheat? The hunters that pay the excise tax and those Kansas hunters who buy the license and permits.
When they thin the herd, they don't kill the trophy deer. But the Butler boys were guiding their clients to kill trophies, and charging $5000, and not requiring their clients to buy a license, and letting them kill multiple trophies, and with out the required permits.
They were feeding the meat to the coyotes. They were hauling the horns and the capes back to Texas where the taxidermist was located, and they were getting a cut of the taxidermy fee.
So who complained to Uncle Sam? Was it the government of Kansas?
I have no use for trophy poachers; its a racket that is unethical as well as illegal.
As many others have said, this pales compared to to type of violation the feds should be involving themselves in, i.e.; interstate transportation of human beings, stolen property and narcotics.
Paying states to thin deer herds is insane. Liberalize the limits, give away doe tags, etc.
Most states keep track of deer-car accidents. In Kansas they use the data to help set bag limits in different hunting units. It ain’t rocket science.
That I don’t know.
I have no knowledge of this case but they did a similar multi-state “investigation” here in NE KS a year or so ago involving guides, meatpackers ,etc. They have these mutual assistance agreements and joint task forces and money and time to burn.
If they’d put this much energy into the real problems we face we’d be way ahead of where we are.
As for whether the fed should be prosecuting, the Lacey Act was passed around 1900 and the part on outfitters and guides was added in 1988. So, they have been prosecuting this type of crime for a long time.
What's the statute of limitations on jackin' a deer down on the Salt Fork?
For a friend.
By all means violators should be prosecuted.
$100,000 x 50 states is 5 million dollars. “ Pretty soon we’re talking real money”.
I wonder how much they made over those 4 years.
They were rolling big for a while.
Men’s egos and wallets often collide with ethics.
However, I have an acquaintance that lives on the east coast that is a professional hunter that makes his living thinning out deer herds. Most of his clients are smaller sized communities or even neighborhoods. Since this is in a populated area, he is a bow hunter only. The venison harvest is donated to local food kitchens or charities and he is paid a fee. Depending on the contract, the fee comes from a government entity or perhaps a homeowners type private association.
“Blasted rats with antlers.....”
Yes indeed. But tasty, *tasty* rats with antlers! :-)
And done properly that is a reasonable, discreet way to handle overpopulation in densely populated areas, parks, etc.
Bow-shot deer can travel a little too far sometimes, though. Air rifles (tactical, not commonly available) are promising for these types of population control.
Donating the meat is the best possible use.
I guess my point was that states don’t need to sign on to every federal offer if there is a simpler solution. Its like they’re afraid to turn down federal dollars sometimes.
They are wearing out my two Scuppernong arbors-I’m about to fill my freezer really early this year!
Deer? DEER?? You mean those giant, antlered rats that are so plentiful that they can make your yard look as if locusts have been there? The ones that eat all the roses, corn, bark, berries, and other fruit they can reach? The same animals that jump out in front of your car at the last second? Those stinkin’ deer?
Give those hunters a medal and shut your commie cake holes.
I’m reaching the end of my fuse. November can’t get here fast enough.
why is this a fed case anyways, the cross state thingy ???
wouldnt extradition and state enforcement be better if needed at all ???
great rant Ma’am...8^}
Thanks. Great tagline, Sir. ;-)
They aren't East Texas boys. The Lone Star Club they own is in Kansas. I believe you are thinking Lone Star, Texas which is in East Texas.
I call that our tax money. I still say granting more permits would have had the same result, a reduction in deer population...the difference is legitimate hunters, not paid contractors, would have gotten to hunt. As far as the “Butler boys” I have no knowledge nor comment.
If you have an interest, the Lufkin Daily News published a very thorough article on this in June, right after the indictments came out in May.
Thanks for the information. I just read what was at the of of the page. My bad!
Usually to my knowledge....when states attempt to balance the deer population they take does.
Here in OK....I think we still have a program that enables folks with a certain amt. of acreage..to apply for DMAP tags. http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/deermanagement.htm
It's done to try and make the buck to doe ratio more natural. Because most hunter's are shooting at bucks...and harvesting bucks.
Did you pay into the fund? If you didn't, it is none of your business. You can call it a tax but it is a user fee. The money never enters the US Treasury. Hunters, who pay the excise tax/user fee don't object to it because they know it goes back into hunting.
There is also an excise tax on fishing equipment and supplies that is handled the same way.
Also on pleasure boat fuel that goes back into boat ramps, docks, wharves and jetties.
"I still say granting more permits would have the same result"
Do you have any education in wildlife management or range management? Any on the job experience?
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