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Feds target 60 hunters in Kansas hunting probe
AP ^ | 14 Sep 10 | ROXANA HEGEMAN

Posted on 09/14/2010 6:09:55 PM PDT by SkyPilot

WICHITA, Kan. (AP)—The Justice Department is targeting more than 60 hunters across the nation for allegedly poaching deer during guided hunts at Camp Lone Star in Kansas, a court document shows.

The scope of the grand jury investigation, believed to be one of the largest criminal prosecutions involving the illegal taking of deer, was made public in a court filing Monday in the federal government’s case against the camp’s owner and his brother, both of Martinsville, Texas.

James Bobby Butler Jr., 41, the owner and operator of the hunting club in Coldwater, Kan., and his brother Marlin Jackson Butler, 36, who worked as a guide, are charged with conspiracy and the unlawful sale and transport of wildlife. James Butler is also charged with obstruction of justice in the 23-count indictment filed May 25 in U.S. District Court in Wichita.

If convicted and given maximum sentences, they could face lengthy prison terms. Jim Cross, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Kansas, said in an e-mail that it was the biggest case of its kind prosecuted in the state.

However, James Butler’s attorney Kurt Kerns calls the legal action “ridiculous.”

“The state of Kansas has paid out over $100,000 to independent contractors to thin the Kansas deer herd for management purposes,” Kerns said in an e-mail. “And now our tax money is being spent making federal cases out of alleged rednecks who supposedly harvest an extra deer.”

Statistics compiled by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service show the nation has 10.3 million big game hunters. About 12 percent, or 1.3 million people, hunt outside of their state of residence. Kansas is a popular destination, drawing an estimated 88,000 out-of-state hunters each year.

(Excerpt) Read more at sports.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: banglist; blackpanthers; dojisajoke; hunters; kansas; rapeofliberty; secondammendment
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The Federal Government will go after hunters who shoot an "extra deer," but they won't do anything about 20 Million Illegal Aliens in our nation, nor will they secure the borders. In fact, they sue the one state that tried to pass a reasonable law to at least find out who was in the country illegally.

Obama sent a grand total of thirty troops to Arizona after it pleaded for help.

The Feds will put you in prison for up to 8 years for selling lobsters that are too small, but won't do ANYTHING about illegal aliens.

Jailing the Innocent by Paul Craig Roberts

The headline on Drudge is that Harry Reid is attaching amnesty to the Defense Bill (a bill that usually passes with bipartisan support). The Dems have also passed the sodomy bill to the Defense Bill. These people are shameless.

Reid adds controversial immigration measure to defense bill

We prosecute the innocent, and give money to the guilty.

We are a nation under God's curse. Only prayer and His grace will bring us back from the brink of disaster we find ourselves in.

"When the wicked rise to power, people go into hiding; but when the wicked perish, the righteous thrive." - Proverbs 28:28

____________________________________________________________________

"When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan." - Proverbs 29:2


1 posted on 09/14/2010 6:09:58 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

The American people are the prey/hunted.


2 posted on 09/14/2010 6:12:53 PM PDT by taxtruth
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To: SkyPilot

The American people are the prey/hunted.


3 posted on 09/14/2010 6:13:00 PM PDT by taxtruth
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To: SkyPilot

We’re turning into England. The peasants are pissing off the landlords.

We have to damn many deer here in Virginia. They’re destroying property and taking lives on the highway.


4 posted on 09/14/2010 6:13:09 PM PDT by agrarianlady
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To: taxtruth
It is so true. This is from the article I linked by Roberts:

Naïve Americans tend to regard miscarriages of justice, such as the lobster import case, as rare examples of legal idiocy that somehow will be corrected by the legal system. However, such cases are routine and are seldom if ever corrected. In America today law enforcement boils down to the exercise of power by unaccountable prosecutors. Justice is not served by ensnaring the innocent. Married men who happen to own guns are being turned into felons by wives who ask for restraining orders when they file for divorce. Prosecutors interpret restraining orders as criminalizing prior gun ownership. A restraining order turns a law-abiding gun owner into a criminal. It is an example of unconstitutional ex post facto law at its worst. Americans are uninformed about the tyrannical nature of their criminal justice system. Until they become personally ensnared in the system, Americans believe that police and prosecutors would never convict an innocent person. Once they experience the system, Americans are terrified by the system’s indifference to whether a defendant has committed a crime.

5 posted on 09/14/2010 6:13:53 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: taxtruth

Don’t you realize, these are the kings deer


6 posted on 09/14/2010 6:14:57 PM PDT by hans56
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To: SkyPilot

..MEANWHILE.... a billion to Mexico....60 billion worth of arms sold to the Saudi’s, and the new threat of government going after your 401k’s and IRA’S


7 posted on 09/14/2010 6:18:23 PM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: SkyPilot

How can this possibly be a Federal crime?


8 posted on 09/14/2010 6:20:51 PM PDT by RightGeek (FUBO and the donkey you rode in on)
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To: SkyPilot

Will the Feds give the hunters a break if they give the venison to the illegals?

Are we running out of deer? Last I heard, we had too many.


9 posted on 09/14/2010 6:20:51 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: SkyPilot
After they paid the $5000 to the lodge, the hunters probably didn't have enough money left to buy an out of state license.
10 posted on 09/14/2010 6:23:19 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: RightGeek
"How can this possibly be a federal crime"

Did you read the article?

11 posted on 09/14/2010 6:26:27 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: agrarianlady

I had a doe and fawn browse through my backyard about 3 hours ago.


12 posted on 09/14/2010 6:27:21 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Political correctness in America today is a Rip Van Winkle acid trip.)
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To: SkyPilot
Because there just aren't enough deer in Kansas. /s

Deer/auto accidents peak on Nov. 17

“An inordinately high deer population also makes deer/vehicle accidents more likely,” said Lloyd Fox, big game program coordinator for Kansas Wildlife & Parks. “The number of deer in Kansas fluctuates from between 350,000 to 400,000.”

According to KDOT, Kansans today are seven times more likely to collide with a deer while driving than in 1980. In 2001, 10,184 deer-vehicle accidents occurred in the state, or 13 percent of the total vehicle accidents reported. While no fatalities resulted, 418 persons were injured. There were only 1,395 deer/auto crashes in 1980.

The increase in crashes involving deer in Kansas mirrors a nationwide trend. Last year, there were about 1.5 million deer-automobile collisions in the U.S. More than 29,000 people were injured and 200 died. Property damage topped $1 billion.


13 posted on 09/14/2010 6:29:20 PM PDT by TigersEye (Greenhouse Theory is false. Totally debunked. "GH gases" is a non-sequitur.)
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To: SkyPilot

This is complete and utter BS they need to do their damn jobs and Keep us free of Invaders!


14 posted on 09/14/2010 6:30:14 PM PDT by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: Rebelbase

Oh my. I would like to invite all illegal hunters to West Virginia.. We have more than our share of deer. Blasted rats with antlers.....


15 posted on 09/14/2010 6:32:37 PM PDT by WVNan
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To: agrarianlady

Yowza, my friends in Arkansas tell me it will be a bumper crop. No poachers. My pals are honest landowning deer slayers. They say the deer are thick and can’t wait until season starts.


16 posted on 09/14/2010 6:46:48 PM PDT by West Texas Chuck (US out of the UN - UN out of the US)
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To: RightGeek
The Feds actually have no power under the Constitution to get into these situations, but they have that "Magic Button" they keep pushing every time.

Interstate Commerce Clause

"The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".

So there you have it. They can do ANYTHING because, well, it would affect commerce.

17 posted on 09/14/2010 7:03:33 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Rebelbase

Your post reminded me of when my Uncle was still alive and lived in Colorado Springs, CO. He was in a wheel-chair by then, his wife had died, he was elderly, and he’d get lonely sometime. He still lived in the house he and his wife raised their kids in.

Where he lived, it was still a little bit rural, with a few old homes around. Some little deer would come into his yard at times. He would sit in his back-yard and feed them! They never really bothered him much, and he loved to have them there, as long as they didn’t get too numerous, and cause problems.

The animal control came around and told him not to feed them anymore! This bummed him out, but he tried to understand. I don’t know if they were bothering the neighbors, and one of them told on him, I don’t know. He was sad about it, but complied.

That made me sad too. When he was a bit younger, he would go deer hunting and fishing, etc.. I think he still would’ve if he could. Since he couldn’t, he would feed the little ones and the mothers instead, it gave him comfort.


18 posted on 09/14/2010 7:03:40 PM PDT by dsutah
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To: agrarianlady
Our government paid $100,000 to contractors to shoot deer? That was OUR money! And now they persecute private hunters for shooting deer. All they needed to do was raise the limit on deer and it wouldn't have cost the govt. a cent. When is the insanity going to stop?
19 posted on 09/14/2010 7:10:28 PM PDT by pepperdog (The Primaries are where we defeat the RINOs!)
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To: taxtruth

So true.

It’s time to do something serious about it.


20 posted on 09/14/2010 7:17:34 PM PDT by chilltherats (First, kill all the lawyers (now that they ARE the tyrants).......)
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To: SkyPilot

Its easier to hunt the deer hunters...than Panthers....and Illegal ALiens..?!!WTF!!!


21 posted on 09/14/2010 7:20:01 PM PDT by mo
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; blueyon; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; ...
Oh, the huge manatee! Thanks SkyPilot.
more than 60 hunters across the nation for allegedly poaching deer during guided hunts at Camp Lone Star in Kansas

22 posted on 09/14/2010 7:29:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: RightGeek
How can this possibly be a Federal crime?

Allegedly the game meat in question was transported across a State line. That makes it a Federal matter. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just answering your question.

Best,

L

23 posted on 09/14/2010 7:29:39 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

If the game was transported accross state lines by the purchaser, the seller was not involed in interstate trade.

But the law seldom stops the feds.


24 posted on 09/14/2010 7:44:48 PM PDT by maine yankee
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To: pepperdog; SkyPilot
"That was OUR money!

Do you buy hunting equipment and supplies? Do you buy a Kansas hunting license and permits?

Since the 1930s and the Pittman-Robertson Act, the treasury dept has collected a 12% excise tax on hunting equipment and supplies that they turn over 100% to USFW who grant it back to the states. With this money and the money that the states, in this case Kansas, collect on the licenses and permits, the state manages hunting, in this case the deer, in the state.

When Kansas thinned the herd, they used those funds to do it.

So, if you bought some hunting equipment and supplies, and paid the 12% excise tax, or you bought a Kansas License, then you contributed to thinning the herd.

So who did these inbred east Texas boys cheat? The hunters that pay the excise tax and those Kansas hunters who buy the license and permits.

When they thin the herd, they don't kill the trophy deer. But the Butler boys were guiding their clients to kill trophies, and charging $5000, and not requiring their clients to buy a license, and letting them kill multiple trophies, and with out the required permits.

25 posted on 09/14/2010 8:00:30 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Lurker; pepperdog

They were feeding the meat to the coyotes. They were hauling the horns and the capes back to Texas where the taxidermist was located, and they were getting a cut of the taxidermy fee.


26 posted on 09/14/2010 8:05:11 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

So who complained to Uncle Sam? Was it the government of Kansas?


27 posted on 09/14/2010 8:10:39 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: Ben Ficklin

I have no use for trophy poachers; its a racket that is unethical as well as illegal.

As many others have said, this pales compared to to type of violation the feds should be involving themselves in, i.e.; interstate transportation of human beings, stolen property and narcotics.

Paying states to thin deer herds is insane. Liberalize the limits, give away doe tags, etc.

Most states keep track of deer-car accidents. In Kansas they use the data to help set bag limits in different hunting units. It ain’t rocket science.


28 posted on 09/14/2010 8:14:42 PM PDT by One Name
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To: HiTech RedNeck

That I don’t know.


29 posted on 09/14/2010 8:19:09 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I have no knowledge of this case but they did a similar multi-state “investigation” here in NE KS a year or so ago involving guides, meatpackers ,etc. They have these mutual assistance agreements and joint task forces and money and time to burn.

If they’d put this much energy into the real problems we face we’d be way ahead of where we are.


30 posted on 09/14/2010 8:24:11 PM PDT by One Name
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To: One Name
I'm inclined to accept that the state agency knows how to manage their game, and a 100,000 isn't much money.

As for whether the fed should be prosecuting, the Lacey Act was passed around 1900 and the part on outfitters and guides was added in 1988. So, they have been prosecuting this type of crime for a long time.

31 posted on 09/14/2010 8:30:28 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The Feds have been all over down there since I was a kid. It used to be wild turkeys. They would work their way up the creeks from Oklahoma. The Feds would come in, trap them and haul them off until the ranchers got pissed and put up a stink. They wanted the turkeys.

What's the statute of limitations on jackin' a deer down on the Salt Fork?

Just askin'.

For a friend.

32 posted on 09/14/2010 8:32:38 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK (I'm waiting for the POP!)
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To: Ben Ficklin

By all means violators should be prosecuted.

$100,000 x 50 states is 5 million dollars. “ Pretty soon we’re talking real money”.


33 posted on 09/14/2010 8:44:36 PM PDT by One Name
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To: One Name
The Butler boys were charging $5000 X 20 clients = $100,000.

I wonder how much they made over those 4 years.

34 posted on 09/14/2010 8:50:30 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

They were rolling big for a while.

Men’s egos and wallets often collide with ethics.


35 posted on 09/14/2010 8:54:12 PM PDT by One Name
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To: One Name
I have no knowledge at all regarding how the $100k is used for deer thining in Kansas so can't add anything to this.

However, I have an acquaintance that lives on the east coast that is a professional hunter that makes his living thinning out deer herds. Most of his clients are smaller sized communities or even neighborhoods. Since this is in a populated area, he is a bow hunter only. The venison harvest is donated to local food kitchens or charities and he is paid a fee. Depending on the contract, the fee comes from a government entity or perhaps a homeowners type private association.

36 posted on 09/14/2010 9:26:18 PM PDT by Hootowl99
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To: WVNan

“Blasted rats with antlers.....”

Yes indeed. But tasty, *tasty* rats with antlers! :-)


37 posted on 09/14/2010 9:39:38 PM PDT by DemforBush (You might think that, *I* could not possibly comment.)
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To: Hootowl99

And done properly that is a reasonable, discreet way to handle overpopulation in densely populated areas, parks, etc.

Bow-shot deer can travel a little too far sometimes, though. Air rifles (tactical, not commonly available) are promising for these types of population control.

Donating the meat is the best possible use.

I guess my point was that states don’t need to sign on to every federal offer if there is a simpler solution. Its like they’re afraid to turn down federal dollars sometimes.

Take care!


38 posted on 09/14/2010 9:45:37 PM PDT by One Name
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To: Rebelbase

They are wearing out my two Scuppernong arbors-I’m about to fill my freezer really early this year!


39 posted on 09/15/2010 2:49:16 AM PDT by snuffy smiff (imagine if the GOP grew a brain-and threw all RINOs OUT! But that would also require a spine *sigh*)
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To: SunkenCiv

Deer? DEER?? You mean those giant, antlered rats that are so plentiful that they can make your yard look as if locusts have been there? The ones that eat all the roses, corn, bark, berries, and other fruit they can reach? The same animals that jump out in front of your car at the last second? Those stinkin’ deer?

Give those hunters a medal and shut your commie cake holes.

I’m reaching the end of my fuse. November can’t get here fast enough.


40 posted on 09/15/2010 4:13:51 AM PDT by TheOldLady (Pablo is very wily.)
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To: SkyPilot
even better, how many deer are poached by hungry border jumpers, or those guys working the pot farms ???

why is this a fed case anyways, the cross state thingy ???

wouldnt extradition and state enforcement be better if needed at all ???

41 posted on 09/15/2010 5:58:17 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: TheOldLady

great rant Ma’am...8^}


42 posted on 09/15/2010 6:21:30 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3

Thanks. Great tagline, Sir. ;-)


43 posted on 09/15/2010 6:24:54 AM PDT by TheOldLady (Pablo is very wily.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
"So who did these inbred east Texas boys cheat?"

They aren't East Texas boys. The Lone Star Club they own is in Kansas. I believe you are thinking Lone Star, Texas which is in East Texas.

44 posted on 09/15/2010 6:35:35 AM PDT by rw4site (Little men want Big Government!)
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To: Ben Ficklin
“USFW who grant it back to the states”

I call that our tax money. I still say granting more permits would have had the same result, a reduction in deer population...the difference is legitimate hunters, not paid contractors, would have gotten to hunt. As far as the “Butler boys” I have no knowledge nor comment.

45 posted on 09/15/2010 7:47:41 AM PDT by pepperdog (The Primaries are where we defeat the RINOs!)
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To: rw4site
As the article points out, the Butler brothers are from Martinsville Texas, which is in east Texas close to Nacogdoches and Lufkin. And most of the clients involved in this are from east Texas and Louisiana.

If you have an interest, the Lufkin Daily News published a very thorough article on this in June, right after the indictments came out in May.

46 posted on 09/15/2010 7:53:26 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Thanks for the information. I just read what was at the of of the page. My bad!


47 posted on 09/15/2010 8:03:47 AM PDT by rw4site (Little men want Big Government!)
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To: Ben Ficklin
You are probably close to the truth.......

Usually to my knowledge....when states attempt to balance the deer population they take does.

Here in OK....I think we still have a program that enables folks with a certain amt. of acreage..to apply for DMAP tags. http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/deermanagement.htm

It's done to try and make the buck to doe ratio more natural. Because most hunter's are shooting at bucks...and harvesting bucks.

48 posted on 09/15/2010 8:08:48 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Kill them all...let God sort them out.)
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To: pepperdog
"I call that tax money"

Did you pay into the fund? If you didn't, it is none of your business. You can call it a tax but it is a user fee. The money never enters the US Treasury. Hunters, who pay the excise tax/user fee don't object to it because they know it goes back into hunting.

There is also an excise tax on fishing equipment and supplies that is handled the same way.

Also on pleasure boat fuel that goes back into boat ramps, docks, wharves and jetties.

"I still say granting more permits would have the same result"

Do you have any education in wildlife management or range management? Any on the job experience?

49 posted on 09/15/2010 8:10:57 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
I'm sure you know best about everything!
50 posted on 09/15/2010 3:08:59 PM PDT by pepperdog (The Primaries are where we defeat the RINOs!)
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