Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

It's not working, O
NY Post ^ | September 19, 2010 | SCOTT GOTTLIEB

Posted on 09/20/2010 3:05:14 AM PDT by Scanian

President Obama prom ised that his health reform would "fix" our rising med ical costs and a growing legion of uninsured Americans priced out of coverage.

Fix it in which direction?

Data out last week shows that the price of insurance is rising even faster than before, the number of uninsured Americans is spiraling upward, and the choices people have of doctors and health plans are being sharply constrained as a result.

Welcome to ObamaCare, Year One. This is the change we should start believing in.

The Obama team blames the recession or the "greedy" insurance industry for these ills. But managed-care firms are simply passing along ObamaCare's higher costs, and the recession can't account for all of these setbacks.

The irony is Obama seems certain to run for re-election in 2012 in a country where far fewer people have health coverage than before he tinkered with the system, and those with insurance find themselves paying more money for less.

If Democrats think the Obama health plan is hard to campaign on in this year's political cycle, just wait until the next election.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: costs; healthcoverage; insurance; obamacare

1 posted on 09/20/2010 3:05:16 AM PDT by Scanian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Scanian

BTTTT


2 posted on 09/20/2010 3:06:54 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

Strangely, my Blue Cross monthly premium has gone down by $35. Maybe it’s just a short bit of relief before they axe our policy.


3 posted on 09/20/2010 3:18:47 AM PDT by ChocChipCookie (TheSurvivalMom.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian
This is the typical Obama approach to all problems: It's the fat cats causing the problem. In this case, the insurance companies. Really?

You guys draft a 2700 page bill for Health Care, but totally ignore tort reform in the medical industry? What would happen if we passed a law that said the maximum award for any medically-related law suit is $100K? Or, how about taking England's approach and say: If you lose your (frivolous) law suit, you have to pay the other side's legal expenses? If doctors didn't have to worry about law suits, how many unnecessary (performed only to cover-your-ass) medical tests would not be administered and how much money would this save? Why did all of you bozos in Washington ignore this issue?

It's because about three-fourths you self-serving SOB's are lawyers, that's why.

The same is true for financial regulation. A 2000+ page bill and you don't even touch Fannie and Freddie? Why not? Because you jerks are trying to buy votes with my money. Well, let's see how you like standing in the unemployment line after November. Throw 'em all out.

4 posted on 09/20/2010 3:22:25 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

I admit I am completely discouraged. There is no indication that Republicans will make any attempt to roll this back if they retake the house/senate. I know that any legislation they attempt may be vetoed until 2012 (or Obama leaves the White House) but I have not heard ANY indication this abomination will be overturned.

I could be wrong here, but not seeing it.


5 posted on 09/20/2010 3:33:03 AM PDT by rlmorel (Puritianism is the fear someone is having fun. Liberalism is the fear someone is being a capitalist.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: econjack

There is no problem with our health care. It is the envy of the world, we have the finest Doctors, the best facilities, the most advanced technologies in all related fields, the best access to services.
To say our health care system is broken is a lie.

There is a difference between 50 million peoples not having access to health care services and not having insurance.

The true problem with having the best health care in history is it is expensive.

The reason it is expensive is because the bills are paid by other people’s money, ie: Insurance companies, and public assistance. Thus, there is no incentive for competitive pricing. The average consumer feels they avoided financial destruction by paying thousands of dollars every year in premiums.

In other words, if you don’t want bad things to happen to you, then you better pay up.

It’s called the protection racket and it’s the second oldest way to make a living. It’s also called extortion.

The entire problem with the health care system is not with health care, it’s insurance. To mandate that everyone has insurance only serves to make matters worse. Like trying to put out a fire with buckets of gasoline.

The true solution is to establish a system that ensures lowering costs while encouraging even more advancements over our already lofty standards. The only way to achieve the desired results is by injecting the patient with the only proven formula that reduces costs and increases quality. The name of this time tested, undeniably successful panacea, is “free enterprise”.

The average family of four taking home around fifty thousand dollars a year after taxes, spends twenty percent of their after tax money on extortion payments. If a medical crisis occurs every twenty years, then they have spent nearly a quarter of a million dollars on paying for it. If the event costs 170,000 dollars then the insurance company gets to keep 80,000 dollars. If the event costs 330,000 dollars then the insurance company looses 80,000 dollars. Insurance companies like these odds. In fact, that is exactly how they make so much money.

Over your lifetime, your extortion...um, premium payments will exceed half a million dollars. Whatever is not spent on medical bills, the insurance company keeps. Any sane person feels some resentment in those facts and has no interest whatsoever in being proactive about keeping the costs down, in fact, some feel that,” the more those bastards have to spend the better!”.

We have a system where the buyer, who gets mugged every month, pays the seller with money from the thief !

Hardly conducive to having a competitive market. In fact it ensures that prices of both health care and health insurance will never go down, instead, it ensures that prices will always go up.

The medicine for this terminal condition is obvious and will have stunning side effects, rapidly soaring the entire economy to heights never before encountered.

Medical care entities bill the patient directly, all invoices will have the option for installments with terms, or payment in full.

Every person could be required to deposit 20% of any gross income into an interest bearing personal health care savings account. The interest calculated is based on the rate of inflation.

This is their money to keep and spend as they like with the provision that if the money is spent for medicinal purposes then it is tax free. Up ton once every year, you may withdraw up to half of the money, but if not used for healthcare care it would be taxed as income.

The action sets to action a new and powerful dynamic.

At first, prices will settle to what the market can bear.
Then, enterprising people will figure ways to dominate the market by lowering prices, making money thru sheer volume as say a Wal-Mart, Amazon, Sears and so many others. This will force some out of business but will lower the prices across the entire industry.

Mean while, the consumers will be flushed with capital on hand and a feeling of security and confidence. The economy will grow with unbridled stride. Large ticket items will be in high demand, Finding enough workers, not jobs, will be the major problem and the poor will enrich themselves. It would mark the beginning of a new frontier of prosperity.

In Earnest,

RavenLooneyToon


6 posted on 09/20/2010 3:33:55 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

The Republican elite will Not soil their hands or reputations to Campaign on Issues the Rabble has been in a Rage about for almost 2 years. They continue to campaign on Tax cuts alone,same old,same old dont mention the Out of Vogue Trampling of the Constitution,that is for that rabble Tea Party thing.
We are to buy getting our Chairmanships back


7 posted on 09/20/2010 3:39:09 AM PDT by ballplayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

My wife educated some clueless LIBs on what thie DeathCare act will do. She was talking about her mom, who will be 103 tomorrow and her eventual need to get a new pacemaker. My wife dropped the subtle comment that she had better get it now before the new act takes effect because her mom won’t get a new pacemaker. The startled LIBs were forced to acknowledge that it was wrong. The looks on their faces = priceless.


8 posted on 09/20/2010 3:40:16 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

You aint seen nothing yet.

Wait a couple of years when this thing gets rolling with it’s beaurocratic offices and affirmative action employees.


9 posted on 09/20/2010 3:43:01 AM PDT by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon

Forget about that mandatory 20% of gross income into a controlled account. That would rapidly become the craziest boondoogle of all time, as the Government moved in to ‘administer’ it.

Just go with “money spent on healthcare is untaxed”, put a cap on medical liability and insist on loser-pays tort reform.


10 posted on 09/20/2010 3:43:17 AM PDT by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon; econjack
The average family of four taking home around fifty thousand dollars a year after taxes, spends twenty percent of their after tax money on extortion payments. If a medical crisis occurs every twenty years, then they have spent nearly a quarter of a million dollars on paying for it. If the event costs 170,000 dollars then the insurance company gets to keep 80,000 dollars. If the event costs 330,000 dollars then the insurance company looses [sic] 80,000 dollars. Insurance companies like these odds. In fact, that is exactly how they make so much money.

Your fundamental error is looking at the insurance payments as a savings account in which you accumulate money to pay for something that may happen sooner or may happen later or may not happen at all. This is not what insurance is. You are paying for coverage in the event that something should happen. If you are covered and something happens that costs a couple million dollars (depending on your coverage), you're taken care of. If, after that, you discontinue that coverage, you don't have to reimburse the insurance company for what was spent on you.

You may as well be bitching about renting versus owning a house or a car. "Wah, wah, wah. I spent all this money leasing the car and in the end it still belongs to the leasing company. Wah, wah, wah. I spent all this money renting my apartment and in the end it still belongs to the owner of the building."
11 posted on 09/20/2010 3:46:21 AM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: ballplayer

This is why we need to get rid of all rinos.


12 posted on 09/20/2010 3:48:00 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Scanian
Data out last week shows that the price of insurance is rising even faster than before, the number of uninsured Americans is spiraling upward, and the choices people have of doctors and health plans are being sharply constrained as a result.

And in the meantime Obama continues trying to convince us of the beauty of his health care reform. Ha!

13 posted on 09/20/2010 3:48:11 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian
Data out last week shows that the price of insurance is rising even faster than before, the number of uninsured Americans is spiraling upward, and the choices people have of doctors and health plans are being sharply constrained as a result.

And in the meantime Obama continues trying to convince us of the beauty of his health care reform. Ha!

14 posted on 09/20/2010 3:48:12 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon

thank you for the MOST common sense writing on health care I’ve read. If the Tea Party was a political party..that would be their health care platform.


15 posted on 09/20/2010 4:08:20 AM PDT by mo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

Obama needs to be impeached, tried for treason and brought to justice.


16 posted on 09/20/2010 4:08:24 AM PDT by thethirddegree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

Bend over, vote democRAT.


17 posted on 09/20/2010 4:10:54 AM PDT by Waco (From Seward to Sarah)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

I’m sure this was “Unexpected”


18 posted on 09/20/2010 4:11:16 AM PDT by mo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

...when your in a card game, it’s best not to jump up and down in your seat when you draw a good card....*s*


19 posted on 09/20/2010 4:12:35 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Doogle

u voter for him


20 posted on 09/20/2010 4:16:34 AM PDT by truthbetold11 (truthbetold11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2592583/posts

Republican lawmakers portray the anticipated drama as foreshadowing the far bigger brawl of the 2012 presidential elections and a clash of visions with President Obama. A vote in the House to repeal the health-care overhaul would be among the GOP’s top priorities.

Republican leaders are also devising legislative maneuvers that might have a bigger impact, using appropriations bills and other tactics to try to undermine the administration’s overhaul of health care and financial regulations and its plans to regulate greenhouse gases.


21 posted on 09/20/2010 4:19:48 AM PDT by Rennes Templar (They shall not pass!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: truthbetold11

...if you meant I voted for him,your wrong


22 posted on 09/20/2010 4:20:48 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon
I had dinner with a very liberal guy who complained that his son didn't have health insurance. It turns out, he didn't have a job, either. When I asked if he had a car, he said yes. My question to him was: If he can afford a car, why doesn't he get rid of the car and buy health insurance? His answer: He needs his car. My response: You mean, he chooses to buy a car and not health insurance. He didn't say anything. (Liberals don't know how to respond to free market questions.)

My final question: Why should I have to pay for your son's health insurance when he doesn't want to pay for it himself? He actually got up and left the table without saying a word. Go figure...

23 posted on 09/20/2010 4:37:45 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: aruanan

The insurance company does not *keep* $80K. The $80K is spent on other claims for catastrophic illnesses in the pool of covered participants. Insurance is SHARED RISK.

Presently, State Insurance Commissioners regulate all Insurance companies operating in those States and generally; after claims payments, maintaining reserves, expenses for sales & administration there is only a very small *profit margin* which is generally used to keep premiums in check. Most insurance companies are *mutual*; similar to credit unions and non-profit organizations. Participants are the stock holders.


24 posted on 09/20/2010 4:37:55 AM PDT by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God's redemption.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

Like any socialist Obama has no country only an agenda.


25 posted on 09/20/2010 4:38:28 AM PDT by Vaduz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scanian
I think Obama--almost against his will--may be forced to do the following if we get a Republican Congress, things that Americans have been clamoring for:

1) Fix the overly-complex and economy-sapping income tax system in favor of a very simple system with low compliance costs and encourages Americans to keep their savings and capital investments in the USA.
2) Massively modifying and/or dismantling the health care reform originally passed in 2010 in favor of more free-market reforms such as allowing insurance companies to sell health insurance policies across state lines on a regional basis.
3) Audit every Federal, state and local government agency for bureaucratic overlap and agency bloat and use the audit results to reduce the size of government by 30% or more. This includes returning a lot of power to the states and dismantling departments like the Department of Education.
4) Impose real reforms to Wall Street to stop the type of excesses that caused the 2008 crash in the first place. Re-imposing the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act might be a good place to start.

With these real changes, the American economy can finally recover and grow again.

26 posted on 09/20/2010 4:43:19 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance


27 posted on 09/20/2010 4:47:59 AM PDT by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God's redemption.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Scanian

Bump


28 posted on 09/20/2010 4:57:13 AM PDT by COUNTrecount (Barry...above his poi grade.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon
Welcome to FR. Was this an extemporaneous post?

Very well written in any case.

29 posted on 09/20/2010 5:08:02 AM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: aruanan
No, I don't look at insurance as a savings account. I look at insurance as legalized system of extortion. There are very few products that have so much contempt for the customer and offers so little redeeming value that laws have to be passed to make people buy it.
As far as the argument that medical costs can can exceed millions of dollars, they are very far and few between, otherwise your premiums would have to be tens of thousands of dollars per month in order for Insurance companies survive, much less make a profit. For these rare occurrences, bankruptcy courts exist.
I've never heard any of my tenants complain about their rents.
30 posted on 09/20/2010 7:57:32 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Aevery_Freeman
I have posted this elsewhere last week. I was inspired by another post, and replied off the top of my head. Thank you for your comments. After many years reading FR, I decided to hop in with both feet.
31 posted on 09/20/2010 8:37:35 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: mo

Blushing.


32 posted on 09/20/2010 8:39:01 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: econjack

Years ago a relative was considering a transfer to California. He said “Well one thing going for it, is I won’t have to pay for health insurance.”
I replied, “No, but instead you’ll have to pay for everyone else!”
He laughed, and said “Nice retort!”
Thankfully, he passed on the transfer.


33 posted on 09/20/2010 8:51:34 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: agere_contra

“Just go with “money spent on healthcare is untaxed”, put a cap on medical liability and insist on loser-pays tort reform.”

I like it.


34 posted on 09/20/2010 11:24:06 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: ChocChipCookie

I hope they treat you right if you have to file a claim.


35 posted on 09/20/2010 12:09:29 PM PDT by Scanian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon
No, I don't look at insurance as a savings account. I look at insurance as legalized system of extortion. There are very few products that have so much contempt for the customer and offers [sic] so little redeeming value that laws have to be passed to make people buy it.

No laws before Obama have ever been passed to make people buy health insurance.

As far as the argument that medical costs can can exceed millions of dollars, they are very far and few between, otherwise your premiums would have to be tens of thousands of dollars per month in order for Insurance companies survive, much less make a profit. For these rare occurrences, bankruptcy courts exist.

No one previous to the Obama administration was forced to obtain health insurance. It was a successful product people chose for the benefits it offered to offset the disadvantages not having it portended. It provided them a way to offset costs in a way that didn't, like bankruptcy court, tell those owed the money to suffer the loss themselves.

I've never heard any of my tenants complain about their rents.

That's probably because they, unlike yourself with health insurance, see renting as a pay-for-use arrangement that meets their housing needs rather than extortion that permits you to take their money without giving them any property in return.

It's evident that you, in addition to being an FR neophyte, are more motivated at maintaining your argument through the use of special and idiosyncratic definitions than anything else, much like those who claim that Nutrasweet is a deadly poison or that mercury amalgam fillings are the cause of a multitude of human ailments.

You have chosen your name well.
36 posted on 09/20/2010 7:46:23 PM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: aruanan
“No laws before Obama have ever been passed to make people buy health insurance.”

To name a couple off the top of my head...Commonwealth of Massachusetts, State of California.

“No one previous to the Obama administration was forced to obtain health insurance.”

See above.

“It was a successful product people chose for the benefits it offered to offset the disadvantages not having it portended.”

Product implies production. Let's agree the only production Insurance contrives is the production of profits and ever increasing costs.

It was first developed during the late 1800s, the same era that brought us snake oil, robber barons,carpet baggers, false goldmines, and other schemes designed to part money from honest people who actually had to work for it.

Later the Unions (including Teachers,Locals, Railroad, and other Socialist entities) brokered deals to include Medical Insurance as part of their compensations.

That's when Medical Service providers responded with discounted charges of practice to those invoices being paid by the Insurance entity.

Around this time Employers started to use the rouse to attract better employees by offering Insurance instead of more actual wages. This is because, truth be told, Insurance is worth less than actual money. Otherwise, Employers would have offered increased wages.

Until the 60s, most people paid out of pocket for a Doctors visit, as well as Hospital stays. About 65% of the population did this. That's because they were paying from their own pocket, thus the Free Enterprise System was keeping costs down.

The more companies that added Health Insurance to their compensation offers, the higher medical costs would go.
People did not “choose” the product.
Like Obamacare, it was shoved down their throats.

As the Socialist ponzi scheme...er I mean Insurance, progressed, Medical Costs started to sky rocket because once the bills are being paid by Other People's Money (OPM) then no one cares how much their ailment costs to fix.

“It's evident that you, in addition to being an FR neophyte, are more motivated at maintaining your argument through the use of special and idiosyncratic definitions than anything else”.

Well it's true, I am an FR neophyte. I started to post here very recently. I am a conservative and I whole heartily believe that exchanging ideas with one another just may result in some tangible and positive results.

I am not simply maintaining an argument on senseless grounds, rather I am trying to influence some about allowing the socialist groups to define the language of the debate.

There is nothing wrong with our Health Care. Insurance may have benefits, but since that 1940s it has always been a tool of the Unions.

In fact the whole concept of others sharing the costs to pay another’s bill is Communist in nature.

As for these “special and idiosyncratic definitions” are concerned, they are what's known as reality, also called Truth.

I really don't understand your personal attacks in your responses. I do understand having passion in one’s views and it is something I respect irregardless of if we agree on something or not.

37 posted on 09/21/2010 3:07:42 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon
“No laws before Obama have ever been passed to make people buy health insurance.”

To name a couple off the top of my head...Commonwealth of Massachusetts, State of California.

“No one previous to the Obama administration was forced to obtain health insurance.”

See above.


No national laws, as referenced by the mention of Obama. No one is forced to live in any particular state.
38 posted on 09/21/2010 10:08:56 AM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: aruanan

If you don’t have Insurance in MA you have to pay an eight hundred dollar tax.


39 posted on 09/21/2010 10:39:18 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon
If you don’t have Insurance in MA you have to pay an eight hundred dollar tax.

Thanks, Mitt.

40 posted on 09/21/2010 10:41:26 AM PDT by dfwgator (Rangers Magic Number - 6)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Comrades in arms.
Crap, I just puked all over my screen.


41 posted on 09/21/2010 11:13:13 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon
If you don’t have Insurance in MA you have to pay an eight hundred dollar tax.

The state level is where nutty crap like this should be tried out so that other states can see what'll happen to them if they try something similar and so that local groups can file suit against the state on Constitutional grounds. The states that are in the biggest trouble are the states with the most dirigist state governments.
42 posted on 09/21/2010 11:55:30 AM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson