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Gun-Carrying Customers Prompt Culver's Policy Review(WI)
http://www.channel3000.com/news/25092147/detail.html ^ | 21 September, 2010 | Staff

Posted on 09/21/2010 7:23:16 PM PDT by marktwain

MADISON, Wis. -- Culver's Corp. is evaluating the possible need for a policy addressing handguns in its restaurants.

The issue came to light after an incident at the East Towne Culver's on Saturday evening.

Five members of the open-carry advocacy group, Wisconsin Carry, met to eat dinner and socialize. The men were all legally openly carrying firearms.

"They started to notice a police presence was gathering around the building so they suspected that somebody had called the police regarding them because they had firearms," said Auric Gold, the group's secretary.

Madison police confirmed that a call was placed to them by a concerned woman who had seen the men in the restaurant.

"She sees some of these people with guns on their hips, and she's concerned enough to call us saying she feels that if she doesn't call and something horrible happens, she would feel terrible that she didn't call," said Joel DeSpain, Madison Police Department spokesman. "She said they weren't doing anything but she thinks we should check it out."

Police responded to the call by approaching the men with the complaint and asking to see identification, WISC-TV reported.

"These individuals were not given any choice; they were simply told they have to provide their ID or they'll be cited for refusal to do it -- for obstruction," said Gold.

"Two of the individuals would not produce identification, saying they didn't need to because they're law-abiding citizens," said DeSpain. "The officers said, 'That's probably the case but we'd like to check it out.'"

The two men who refused to provide identification were handcuffed, ticketed for obstruction of justice and searched until identification was found, police said.

Once police knew they were not felons, their guns were returned.

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Members of the group contend they were not trying to set up police, even though some members were wearing wires to record any such confrontation, WISC-TV reported.

"They didn't come out there with the intention of challenging the law," said Gold. "They didn't come out there with the intention of having an encounter with police. They came out to have a meal, to get to know each other and to socialize. It's as simple as that."

Group members said they believe police might be trying to set them up.

DeSpain said police would not have known the men were having dinner if they hadn't received a complaint.

DeSpain said the group walked around the Capitol and down State Street armed late last winter and had no problems with police. He said there were no complaints.

"If you're a law-abiding citizen, certainly the law in this state is that you can have open carry," said DeSpain. "It's your Second Amendment right and we respect that. But we still need to find out what people are doing when they walk around with guns on their hips because people do get concerned."

Wisconsin Carry said it has its legal counsel looking into whether rights were violated over the weekend. Gold said it would be up to individuals whether or not they pursued legal action on their own.

One man who received a citation for obstruction of justice recently won a settlement from the city of Racine and Racine Police Department for a similar incident.

Madison police said they are also re-evaluating the citations issued on Saturday. Police said the citations could possibly be changed to disorderly conduct.

Culver's Corp. is not making a formal statement regarding the incident, only saying that it's now looking into the possibility of crafting a policy addressing the issue.

Culver's legal counsel is consulting with the Wisconsin Restaurant Association on what action to take.

Culver's said it supports a person's Second Amendment rights and is not taking sides on the issue. However, Culver's said it plans to have a policy addressing the issue in the next few weeks.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: banglist; gun; liberalintolerance; liberalparanoia; opencarry; wi
If they do not "take sides" the open carriers and the Constitution win. They would have to activily ban the carrying of guns in their restaurants to change their policy.
1 posted on 09/21/2010 7:23:22 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Auric Gold? I read that book!


2 posted on 09/21/2010 7:29:53 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: marktwain

Well I hope Culvers stands by the constitution because I like the place.


3 posted on 09/21/2010 7:30:28 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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To: marktwain

This is what it is coming to... Police (government) against law abiding citizens. Not sure how this can be corrected.

You have normal citizens thinking that people carrying guns are a problem - maybe that is where teachable moments should occur.

Or...maybe the law enforcement officers need additonal training. Not sure where this ends...

Somebody with better experience let me know...


4 posted on 09/21/2010 7:34:41 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: marktwain
"The officers said, 'That's probably the case but we'd like to check it out.'"

In other words, "We don't care what the law says. We're cops and we're going to do what we want."

5 posted on 09/21/2010 7:37:14 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: marktwain
Madistan. Enuff said.
Next year we'll have CC (prolly “shall issue”) and the bedwetters will have a cow. Our state constitution is unambiguous about RTKBA, but the current libtard goober vetoed two bills.
6 posted on 09/21/2010 7:43:15 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: marktwain
I wonder if this concerned person calls the police when she sees a person who has had a little to much get into a car or if she hears a couple arguing and thinks it abuse or is she just concerned about the people carrying guns?
7 posted on 09/21/2010 7:43:27 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: marktwain
"These individuals were not given any choice; they were simply told they have to provide their ID or they'll be cited for refusal to do it -- for obstruction," said Gold.

Get a lawyer. Unless you are operating a vehicle on a public street, you have no obligation to show ANY LEO your "papers".

8 posted on 09/21/2010 7:47:22 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

Hopefully you’ll be able to put the CBST to use. Oh, and thanks again for the ammo advise. I’m gettin range ready. Report coming soon!!


9 posted on 09/21/2010 7:49:53 PM PDT by davetex (All my weapons got melted by a meteor!! No Sh*t)
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To: marktwain
"These individuals were not given any choice; they were simply told they have to provide their ID or they'll be cited for refusal to do it -- for obstruction," said Gold.

They should have said they were illegal immigrants and hussein says we don't have to show no stinkin' papers!

10 posted on 09/21/2010 7:51:41 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (obama out now! I'll keep my money, my guns, and my freedom - you can keep the change.)
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To: mylife

We like it here too!!

Better butter burger thingy, whatever they call it. It’s good.


11 posted on 09/21/2010 7:51:47 PM PDT by davetex (All my weapons got melted by a meteor!! No Sh*t)
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To: marktwain

Can we all say, “violation of civil rights under color of law?” I’m sure the PD and these cops will learn what that means. BTW, immunity is waived by law - hope he goes after the cops personally.


12 posted on 09/21/2010 7:51:57 PM PDT by piytar (There is evil. There is no such thing as moderate evil. Never forget.)
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To: davetex

And its the only place in Texas that I know of that sells frozen custard!


13 posted on 09/21/2010 7:56:28 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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To: davetex
Nom Nom Nom Nomm...


14 posted on 09/21/2010 7:59:38 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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To: DBrow

“Auric Gold, the group’s secretary.”

LOL


15 posted on 09/21/2010 8:01:22 PM PDT by PizzaDriver ( on)
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To: mylife

Wow, I’m hungry now.


16 posted on 09/21/2010 8:05:11 PM PDT by davetex (All my weapons got melted by a meteor!! No Sh*t)
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To: DBrow
"Two of the individuals would not produce identification, saying they didn't need to because they're law-abiding citizens," said DeSpain. "The officers said, 'That's probably the case but we'd like to check it out.'"

Well done! And it's recorded? LOL. The cop's answer proves that he didn't have "reasonable suspicion" that they were committing a crime. He therefore had no right to demand identification. That means the arrest and ticket was unconstitutional, as in a violation of civil rights. Oooops. The tickets don't provide cover. They might if a "cover story" made after the fact could be ginned up to show reasonable suspicion, but the cop's answer negates that. These guys definitely know their rights, and this is going to end well. For them.

17 posted on 09/21/2010 8:08:19 PM PDT by piytar (There is evil. There is no such thing as moderate evil. Never forget.)
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To: davetex

Me too.


18 posted on 09/21/2010 8:09:13 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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To: davetex
Oh, I'll be using it.
If your barrel is chromed, I'd suggest that you run 10 rnds of 223 with a cleaning between each round. Then switch to the 5.56. Some will disagree, but it worked for me. (Never leave Hoppe’s in the bore. Copper is commonly used to prep the bore before chrome. Any scratch in the chrome, and the Hoppe’s will eat into the copper.) /thread hijack
19 posted on 09/21/2010 8:09:50 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: marktwain

Culver restaurants?

what is the name of the restaurants?

It would seem commercial suicide to decide agains these people. (also clearly state easy robbery target)


20 posted on 09/21/2010 8:17:01 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Yup, at least without a reasonable suspicion the person is a criminal. See this article on the Racine case mentioned in the article.
21 posted on 09/21/2010 8:26:35 PM PDT by piytar (There is evil. There is no such thing as moderate evil. Never forget.)
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To: longtermmemmory

I preferred Kopps whyen I lived in Milwaukee..


22 posted on 09/21/2010 8:28:22 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: piytar
winner of the thread...

a few nazis get some hard time and lose their pensions, the rest will tell 'nervous nelly' to stfu...

23 posted on 09/21/2010 8:43:30 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: mylife
I didn't know you had Culvers in TX. Always thought it was a cheeshead thing. Shows what I know; not much.
24 posted on 09/21/2010 8:44:08 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: marktwain

I ‘get’ that based on open carry laws they were acting lawfully...however, if I were to enter a restaurant with my family and saw a table of men or women openly carrying, I’d walk out.


25 posted on 09/21/2010 8:47:59 PM PDT by Kimberly GG ("Path to Citizenship" Amnesty candidates will NOT get my vote! DeMint, 2012)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

We have 3 here in the area.

My kids first job was in a Culvers In Wi.


26 posted on 09/21/2010 8:51:25 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

My fave burger story from WI was driving a huge azz John Deer combine through fields for delivery (it was 4 times the size of the road) and pulling into a field near a Hardees for lunch. I was just along for the ride.

It just was fun.

Down here I drove a Marine Corp LAV though a mickey D’s drive through. (BTW the first drive through mickey D’s was in fort hauchuca Az)
That meal tasted better too LoL
The look on their faces loL

Anyhow. I have a place in my heart for Culvers


27 posted on 09/21/2010 8:59:59 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1 Halfbaked 50c)
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To: Kimberly GG

Not me...I’d sit next to them - it would be the safest place to be.


28 posted on 09/21/2010 9:23:56 PM PDT by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked." BHO)
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To: knittnmom

Ping!


29 posted on 09/21/2010 9:26:22 PM PDT by Ellendra (I'll believe it's a crisis when the people who say it's a crisis, ACT like it's a crisis!)
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To: scott7278

I think you’re saying that assuming they are ‘good’ guys and not criminals with deadly intent.


30 posted on 09/21/2010 11:43:11 PM PDT by Kimberly GG ("Path to Citizenship" Amnesty candidates will NOT get my vote! DeMint, 2012)
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To: Kimberly GG

If they had a calm demeanor and paid for their food, then yes, I would consider them the good guys.

Criminals don’t advertise their weapons, and they certainly don’t carry them in quality holsters, as these people more than likely were doing.

As long as they were minding their own business, so should everyone else.


31 posted on 09/21/2010 11:56:13 PM PDT by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked." BHO)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

In some places it is illegal to walk around without carrying ID.


32 posted on 09/22/2010 2:41:04 AM PDT by bjorn14 (Woe to those who call good evil and evil good. Isaiah 5:20)
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To: DBrow

Auric Gold? I read that book!>>>>>>

I saw the movie !!!21!!!111111!!!!


33 posted on 09/22/2010 2:43:57 AM PDT by dennisw (I a)
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To: bjorn14

And the Supreme Court has determined that a citizen who is not committing a crime has a right to NOT be harassed by a cop for not carrying ID. Those laws will not hold up in court. This isn’t the Soviet Union, Not yet, anyway.


34 posted on 09/22/2010 5:47:29 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: marktwain
"These individuals were not given any choice; they were simply told they have to provide their ID or they'll be cited for refusal to do it -- for obstruction," said Gold.

How is this different than "taking your kid out for ice cream" in Arizona?

(Waiting for the Holder Justice department to file suit against these cops for violating these guys civil rights, and for Hitlery to report them to the U.N.) /sarc.

35 posted on 09/22/2010 6:52:38 AM PDT by PalmettoMason (Jesus had twelve followers... and one of them turned out to be an FBI Agent.)
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To: marktwain; Joe Brower; bamahead

"... But we still need to find out what people are doing when they walk around with guns on their hips because people do get concerned."


Hoplophobic people need to seek professional help for their condition.



36 posted on 09/22/2010 7:29:12 AM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: marktwain
"But we still need to find out what people are doing when they walk around with guns on their hips because people do get concerned."

Because criminals are known for peaceful open carry of firearms?

Squishy logic being used to harass law abiding citizens.

37 posted on 09/22/2010 7:36:50 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III, Alarm and Muster)
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To: Deagle
Three scruffy fellows openly armed are sitting in a Hash House 3am eating breakfast.. An Arizona Sheriff's Deputy walks in. Looks around, sees the three men in the farthest corner booth. He makes eye contact with the one who can see him, they both nod. Doesn't know them from Adam. Walks up sits in the next booth facing the door. His back to the scruffy fellows. He knows da#n good an well open carry is perfectly legal and has been since Arizona was a territory. So does the everyone else including the Waitress the Cook and the Cashier. He has seen the same thing for many years and knows if things go to hell in a hand basket the only problem with the guys behind him will be trying to keep them from killing some idiot who points a gun or knife at the waitress or tries to rob the restaurant.

There is a bench in front of a tiny storefront police station in a former mining now tourist town.. There, sweat stained Cowboy hat tipped low, well worn 1911 on his hip a fellow is dozing . Two of the towns 3 maybe 4 Peace Officers (including the Chief”) are changing shifts. The screen door is is an old wooden one Green/Blue. If you let it slam it makes a lot of racket. As the Officers pass two feet away from the sleeping fella you can see them turn down their radios and carefully close that screen door.

In Phoenix three Mexican Federale/Narco Terrorists ambush a Patrolmen who stopped them to write a traffic ticket. Gunning him down he is killed. The Phoenix citizen in the car behind takes the Narco Terrorists under fire.. they surrender and he holds them until the Phoenix Police arrive. As part of the investigation the citizen's weapon has to be processed as evidence. That day the Phoenix Police Officer Association/Union went out.. bought and delivered and new pistol to the citizen.

It takes time but that's how it ends, with mutual courtesy and respect.

Which in no small part explains the left’s psychotic opposition to an Armed Citizenry.

W

38 posted on 09/22/2010 9:04:50 AM PDT by WLR (Remember 911 Remember 91 Iran delinda est.)
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To: Deagle
This is what it is coming to... Police (government) against law abiding citizens. Not sure how this can be corrected.

Real easy.

United States Code, U.S. Criminal Code,
Title 18, §ection 241:
Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

39 posted on 09/22/2010 2:41:54 PM PDT by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: WLR
It takes time but that's how it ends, with mutual courtesy and respect.

Which in no small part explains the left’s psychotic opposition to an Armed Citizenry.

A couple of decades back, there was a minor fender-bender auto accident across the street from the Tucson gas station where I was filling up my gas tank and knocking off a cold Pepsi in the noonday sun. First thing I heard was the crash, then the sound of a car horn stuck on. I shut off the gas and went across the street to see if anyone was hurt.

I was carrying a 9mm Browning GP at the time, in a crossdraw belt holster on my right side. A car had plowed into a pickup truck, and the auto driver had stepped out, wearing a .38 revolver on his belt. The pickup driver had smacked his head against the steering wheel and was bleeding slightly, and it was his horn that was stuck on. When we helped him out from behind the wheel, I noticed he had a .45 Auto tucked in his Levis pocket.

Helpfully, the gas station attendent had come over with a first-aid kit and told us he'd called for police and an ambulance. Yep, he had a shooter too, a very nice looking little nickle-plated Walther, a PP or PPK.

We got the truck's hood open and pulled the battery cable, shutting off the noisy horn. When the cops arrived, they too had handguns on. By this point, I was expecting about everyone in Tucson was carrying. If there was anyone who wasn't, it may have been the ambukance crew, though I'd hardly have been surprised if there'd been a derringer or snubby .22 tucked away in a boot or pocket there too.

Just a routine auto fender-bender, with everyone involved, participants, witnesses, responders- all carrying. And polite as all get out, taking care of things and people in their course.

Mr. Robert A. Heinlein said it best: An armed society is a polite society....

40 posted on 09/22/2010 2:54:32 PM PDT by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: WLR
It takes time but that's how it ends, with mutual courtesy and respect.

Which in no small part explains the left’s psychotic opposition to an Armed Citizenry.

A couple of decades back, there was a minor fender-bender auto accident across the street from the Tucson gas station where I was filling up my gas tank and knocking off a cold Pepsi in the noonday sun. First thing I heard was the crash, then the sound of a car horn stuck on. I shut off the gas and went across the street to see if anyone was hurt.

I was carrying a 9mm Browning GP at the time, in a crossdraw belt holster on my right side. A car had plowed into a pickup truck, and the auto driver had stepped out, wearing a .38 revolver on his belt. The pickup driver had smacked his head against the steering wheel and was bleeding slightly, and it was his horn that was stuck on. When we helped him out from behind the wheel, I noticed he had a .45 Auto tucked in his Levis pocket.

Helpfully, the gas station attendent had come over with a first-aid kit and told us he'd called for police and an ambulance. Yep, he had a shooter too, a very nice looking little nickle-plated Walther, a PP or PPK.

We got the truck's hood open and pulled the battery cable, shutting off the noisy horn. When the cops arrived, they too had handguns on. By this point, I was expecting about everyone in Tucson was carrying. If there was anyone who wasn't, it may have been the ambukance crew, though I'd hardly have been surprised if there'd been a derringer or snubby .22 tucked away in a boot or pocket there too.

Just a routine auto fender-bender, with everyone involved, participants, witnesses, responders- all carrying. And polite as all get out, taking care of things and people in their course.

Mr. Robert A. Heinlein said it best: An armed society is a polite society....

41 posted on 09/22/2010 2:54:43 PM PDT by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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