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Second phase of Silver Line project sees costs soar ( DC Metro train )
Washington Post ^ | September 16, 2010 | Derek Kravitz

Posted on 09/23/2010 9:37:57 PM PDT by george76

The second part of Metrorail's extension from Falls Church to Dulles International Airport and Loudoun County could cost as much as $1.3 billion more than original estimates, which may mean higher rates for people who use the Dulles Toll Road.

The new estimate was provided Wednesday to members of the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, which is overseeing construction. The first phase is costing $2.75 billion, the authority said. Early estimates had placed costs of the second phase in the same range. The new price range increases the cost by at least $690 million and potentially twice as much.

The plan to extend Metro's rail service deep into Northern Virginia was first developed in 2002 by state and airports officials...The second phase of the project, covering 11 1/2 miles and six stations, does not have federal funding. It is expected to be completed by December 2016. Toll road funds are expected to cover nearly 53 percent of the entire project's costs.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: dcmetro; fairfaxcounty; governmentrail; highspeedrail; iad; rail; subway; trains; unexpected

1 posted on 09/23/2010 9:38:02 PM PDT by george76
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To: george76
Government. Incompetence amok.
2 posted on 09/23/2010 9:45:37 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Hail To The Fail-In-Chief)
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To: george76
... could cost as much as $1.3 billion more than original estimates ...

Unexpected, no doubt.

3 posted on 09/23/2010 9:45:47 PM PDT by relee ('Till the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away)
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To: george76

$3.5 - 4 b, and all you get is 11 1/2 measly miles of track?


4 posted on 09/23/2010 9:50:05 PM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: eclecticEel

Your tax dollars at work.

Much of new burden falls on car drivers who are not using the train.


5 posted on 09/23/2010 9:57:43 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: eclecticEel

$4B apparently doesn’t go as far as it used to these days!!


6 posted on 09/23/2010 9:59:13 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: george76

I hope somebody in Hawaii’s government sees this. And if it supposedly costs that much extra in DC, you can bet it will be double what they claim and you can probably bet on a factor of 10 here on Oahu.


7 posted on 09/23/2010 10:01:28 PM PDT by BuckyKat (Green is the new red.)
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To: george76

Well that’s never happened before.

Union Yes, eh?


8 posted on 09/23/2010 10:01:35 PM PDT by lurk
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To: george76

As one who utilizes cars, trucks, motorhomes, motorcycles, bicycles, airplanes, trains, subways, and ferries...I’m glad to see several forms of transportation share the load.


9 posted on 09/23/2010 10:02:23 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: eclecticEel
$3.5 - 4 b, and all you get is 11 1/2 measly miles of track?

They have to dig large holes under high-density areas that include Tyson's Corner. Presumably they are trying to avoid having any large buildings fall down in the process.

10 posted on 09/23/2010 10:12:47 PM PDT by Interesting Times (For the truth about "swift boating" see ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: george76

IBWG.


11 posted on 09/23/2010 10:31:57 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Blue Jays

WHAT load?


12 posted on 09/23/2010 10:35:02 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: BuckyKat

They will be convinced they won’t run into that problem,it is like any other government agency who sees another part of the government messing something up.

It just won’t happen to them.


13 posted on 09/23/2010 10:44:47 PM PDT by Del Rapier
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To: george76; Willie Green
The first phase is costing $2.75 billion, the authority said. Early estimates had placed costs of the second phase in the same range. The new price range increases the cost by at least $690 million and potentially twice as much...

So that's $4.1 billion for the second phase ($2.75 billion plus 2 x $690 million).

The second phase of the project, covering 11 1/2 miles and six stations

So that's about $360 million PER MILE. Yeah, that's a good use of funds!

I wonder what Willie Green would say? The last light rail system built in the US - Seattle's Link - was $180 million per mile. Now this is at $360 million per mile. And Willie wants to deploy tens of thousands of miles of high speed rail lines in the US? A network of 20,000 miles (2 transcontinental lines and a half-dozen N/S and long spurs) would cost $3.6 to $7.2 TRILLION. Just for the lines.

Hey Willie, those numbers sound about right?

14 posted on 09/23/2010 11:00:20 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: knarf

The load of people and products moving around any given area via ground, air, and water.


15 posted on 09/23/2010 11:03:49 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

about $360 million PER MILE. Yeah, that’s a good use of funds!

8-)


16 posted on 09/23/2010 11:05:17 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: eclecticEel

They could have done this 25 years ago for far less. They didn’t because Congress was determined to keep National Open. It was their private airport.


17 posted on 09/24/2010 12:37:03 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: george76

Every time I get or do a cost estimate for the government I take what it should cost and multiply it by 2.5 and it usually comes out pretty close.


18 posted on 09/24/2010 2:34:25 AM PDT by maddog55 (OBAMA, You can't fix stupid...)
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To: Interesting Times

Most of this project is above ground light rail with a few portions under ground?


19 posted on 09/24/2010 2:40:35 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: dennisw

I am still trying to visualize this project. It would seem that one of the major difficulties would be crossing the interstates to get to Dulles. Once that was done, however, I don’t see the problem with aboveground transport to Dulles itself.


20 posted on 09/24/2010 3:44:03 AM PDT by Melchior
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To: maddog55

“Every time I get or do a cost estimate for the government I take what it should cost and multiply it by 2.5 and it usually comes out pretty close.”

This makes Silver Line a huge bargain. It was supposed to cost $5.5B, but it is “only” $1.3B (24%) over budget.


21 posted on 09/24/2010 3:46:56 AM PDT by DrC
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To: george76
Toll road funds are expected to cover nearly 53 percent of the entire project's costs.

WTH??? Shouldn't the cost of the railroad project be borne solely by those using the train? If highway tolls are collected, they should be used for highway construction and maintenance ONLY!

22 posted on 09/24/2010 3:49:24 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: george76

This is the new line. The real traffic problem is on this map. The real problem is the one bridge across the river on I495 on the right of this map. This is a waste of money if they think will will improve traffic.

23 posted on 09/24/2010 4:10:22 AM PDT by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: bmwcyle

So basically, they should correct the bridge problem, not build the unnecessary railroad. And, for a great deal less money.

This whole project sounds like payola to the road construction unions.


24 posted on 09/24/2010 4:29:33 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: Melchior

You know the terrain... I don’t

Who will ride these trains? Mostly Federal employed drones?


25 posted on 09/24/2010 4:44:48 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: meyer

Four new bridges across the river and use Rt 301 as I 95 bypass of the Washington DC area will solve our traffic problem. MD will not allow any new bridges since they control the river. Liberals are always the problem.


26 posted on 09/24/2010 5:00:46 AM PDT by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: Blue Jays

So the addition of more of the same is a relief?


27 posted on 09/24/2010 5:11:32 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: dennisw

Feds. Absolutely.


28 posted on 09/24/2010 5:39:24 AM PDT by Melchior
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To: Melchior

I-495 (AKA The Capitol Beltway) crosses VA-267 (AKA The Dulles Toll Road) on a bridge. I see the construction area regularly. The MetroRail line is above ground (I think) at the Beltway crossing. It is between the two sides of the Toll Road, and under the Beltway bridge.


29 posted on 09/24/2010 5:47:51 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

So you drive a car and pay gas taxes and tolls so eco-morons can ride a train. Yeah...that makes sense. If these trains weren’t subsidized these dreamy mass commuter types would probably have to pay $50 per trip. They should be forced to wash and wax peoples cars for free each time they enter and exit mass transit.


30 posted on 09/24/2010 6:01:15 AM PDT by hal ogen (1st amendment or reeducation camp?)
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To: hal ogen
And after the Silver Line is built, I'll still be driving ... Metro doesn't (and won't) serve the worksite I'm going to when I make that drive.
31 posted on 09/24/2010 6:07:46 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: george76; Willie Green

Where’s Willie Green?


32 posted on 09/24/2010 6:09:30 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: knarf

Unless we can boost the popularity of hovercraft. LOL!


33 posted on 09/24/2010 6:11:33 AM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: relee
could cost as much as $1.3 billion more than original estimates ...

Does anyone recall ever hearing of a goveco project coming in at or near the original estimate?

34 posted on 09/24/2010 6:22:38 AM PDT by dearolddad
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To: meyer

The thieves ( politicians ) usually steal 33 percent for their commissions / management and divert another 33 percent to government mass transit / unions.

The roads and bridges might get the rest of the gasoline taxes that we pay everytime we visit a gas station.


35 posted on 09/24/2010 6:31:25 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

they’re merely becoming brazen in their theiving at this point...just like a 3rd world kleptocracy.

We the People are gonna need to get ugly...


36 posted on 09/24/2010 6:33:10 AM PDT by mo
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To: Boogieman
IBWG.

That's just plain funny!

37 posted on 09/24/2010 8:27:19 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (If exercising the right to free speech invites violence, then girls in short skirts invite rape.)
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To: Melchior
I am still trying to visualize this project. It would seem that one of the major difficulties would be crossing the interstates to get to Dulles. Once that was done, however, I don’t see the problem with aboveground transport to Dulles itself.

That's part of Phase I and is already well underway. From an engineering perspective it's pretty impressive, the flyovers are being built using these big blue and yellow assembly apparatuses that will slide from one pier to the next while lifting the horizontal segments into place.

The BIG issue here is that while the rail extension to Tysons (and maybe out to Reston Town Center) is a pretty good idea to draw people out to two of the larger of DC's "satellite cities" (revenue driven into those areas by people taking Metro will recoup the costs in something like 5-7 years), the extension beyond Reston to Dulles is just dumb. There's no reason for it other than to get people to/from the airport using rail.

The Dulles Toll Road is really two separate roads. The first is the Toll Road, which charges tolls (go figure). However there is an inner road that's called the "Access Road" that doesn't charge tolls and only permits cars/trucks/cabs going to/from the airport ... and busses running from the suburbs into the city or other mass transit hubs.

That road is seriously underutilized, and a much simpler and more cost effective solution would be to put more on/off ramps to it and use busses to carry the people.

That's how I currently commute. I drop my car at the Herndon/Monroe Park and Ride, catch a 980 or 950 express bus to West Falls Church Metro. Biggest problem is that the first on-ramp to the Access Road is below Hunter Mill so many days it takes 30-45 minutes to cover the 15 miles between Herndon/Monroe and WFC Metro. Solution: build another frikkin' on-ramp from the Park and Ride to the Access Road.

So instead ... when the Silver Line goes in I'm probably going to see a 60-70% increase in my daily commuting costs (additional $5 for parking, which I don't pay now since parking is free, plus an additional $2 or so above the still-cheap bus fares) PLUS with all the Metro stops between Herndon/Monroe and the junction with the Orange Line it'll probably take 15-20 minutes LONGER than now (which is already 15-20 minutes too long since the busses have to sit in Toll Road traffic before hitting the Access Road.
38 posted on 09/24/2010 8:44:13 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: george76; Willie Green; B-Chan
The second part of Metrorail's extension from Falls Church to Dulles International Airport and Loudoun County could cost as much as $1.3 billion more than original estimates, which may mean higher rates for people who use the Dulles Toll Road.

Typical choo-choo pusher mentality: make the toll road users pay for the overruns, rather than the eventual rail passengers.

39 posted on 09/24/2010 8:42:05 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Muslims are not the problem, the rest of the world is! /s)
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To: bmwcyle

Self-indulgent, well-off Montgomery County (MD) residents don’t want a second crossing.


40 posted on 09/24/2010 8:44:02 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Muslims are not the problem, the rest of the world is! /s)
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To: dennisw

Metro is heavy rail. It’s basically a system of electric commuter trains that go back and forth through the DC area.


41 posted on 09/24/2010 8:48:59 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Muslims are not the problem, the rest of the world is! /s)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

So most of the people who use this greater DC train system are Federal workers and workers for businesses that lobby the Feds, contract to the Feds, cater to the Feds, wine and dine the Feds or kiss their arse in some other way. The train riders are all tax eaters, some directly and some indirectly. Those trains would be ghost trains if the DC tax spigot was cut off to half the current flow


42 posted on 09/25/2010 2:26:25 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: dennisw

Not exactly. Metro is the DC-area subway system. They really have needed this extension for going on thirty years now, but they’ve waited far too long to build it, until the areas they’re going through are so built up that they costs have skyrocketed. There has been absolutely explosive growth along the VA 267 corridor between Dulles and I-495 since the early 1980s and the traffic out there is absolutely brutal. I lived out in Herndon in the late ‘80s and it was awful then, I can’t imagine what it’s like now since the then-rural gaps along 267 have all been filled in with office parks and housing developments.

}:-)4


43 posted on 09/28/2010 5:05:45 AM PDT by Moose4 ("By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!")
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To: tanknetter

Did they ever widen I-66 west of the Beltway? I lived up there in the late 1980s in various places around Fairfax County, and remember I-66 being a two-lane parking lot in the mornings and afternoons. Then it crossed the Beltway and became HOV-only (yes, folks, THE ENTIRE INTERSTATE is HOV-restricted between I-495 and Washington during rush hour) and it was empty. Totally empty.

}:-)4


44 posted on 09/28/2010 5:07:57 AM PDT by Moose4 ("By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!")
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To: Moose4

Well is this Silver Line project above or below ground?


45 posted on 09/28/2010 6:33:48 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: dennisw

Part of each, I think (I don’t live up there any more). They’ve been talking about it for decades, in the late ‘80s I know the more suburban part of it was supposedly going to be run down the center median of the VA 267/Dulles Toll Road. I don’t know if that’s still the plan or not.

}:-)4


46 posted on 09/28/2010 7:03:00 AM PDT by Moose4 ("By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!")
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To: dennisw; Moose4

Near as I can tell, the “Silver Line” goes underground where it crosses the Beltway.


47 posted on 09/28/2010 7:11:04 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Moose4
Did they ever widen I-66 west of the Beltway? I lived up there in the late 1980s in various places around Fairfax County, and remember I-66 being a two-lane parking lot in the mornings and afternoons.

Yes. Now it's a 4-lane parking lot ...

48 posted on 09/28/2010 7:11:50 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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