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Joe Sobran, R.I.P. [Joseph Sobran, 1946 - 2010]

Posted on 09/30/2010 7:54:18 PM PDT by Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo

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To: Tribemike1
You read the Gospel of John...especially Chapter 8..Jesus calls collectively “the Jews” (that is the ones who rejected him) “children of the Devil,” and says their reliance on pedigree with Abraham is meaningless and their revolutionary approach is misguided....

Your Biblical ignorance is appalling.

51 posted on 09/30/2010 10:40:39 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Managing "The Environment" is the power to control the entire economy.)
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To: Nonstatist

What I read at your link was that Sobran believed that Jews exhibit a lot of ethnocentrisim, pursue their own interests, often at the expense of non-Jews, and that Jews wield a good deal of power in the U.S. All true. What was the anti-semitic part? That he didn’t think those were good things?


52 posted on 09/30/2010 10:59:47 PM PDT by ruination
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To: ruination
What I read at your link was that Sobran believed that Jews exhibit a lot of ethnocentrisim, pursue their own interests, often at the expense of non-Jews, and that Jews wield a good deal of power in the U.S. All true. 

This must be why Jews voted 80% for that anti Israel Muslim named Barak Hussein Obama. Pursuing their ethno-centric interests

What was the anti-semitic part? That he didn’t think those were good things?

He wrote anti Semitic crap. http://www.sobran.com/fearofjews.shtml   I probably agreed with him on some other matters

 

53 posted on 09/30/2010 11:10:23 PM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: ruination
As it contemplates expanding the war, the Bush administration is also weighing the possibility of using nuclear weapons. It reportedly has contingency plans to nuke several states, including Russia and Syria (which has no nukes). Instead of learning the obvious lessons of 9/11, the government is redoubling the reckless imperial policies that helped provoke 9/11. In doing so it endangers the life of every American.

The above quote shows Sobran's dementedness. This was at my direct link; the rest of Sobran's whacked out writings can be found at his website and elsewhere.

Don't expect me to parse out everything he wrote in the last 20 years, I'm assuming you can read for yourself. Or are you just being obtuse?

54 posted on 09/30/2010 11:12:35 PM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Tribemike1
Sobran recycled medival lies about the Talmud and Judaism. He hated Judaism and Jewishness as well as Israel. Jones is no better on this. However Sobran also defended and supported Holocaust deniers on the leftist basis that they are oppressed.

I also find it pathetic that so-called "paleoconservatives" are now eulogizing Sobran, given Sobran's support for open borders.

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/017492.html

A conservative turned anarchist antisemite and America hatred deserves our pity, not eulogy.

55 posted on 09/30/2010 11:36:42 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: rmlew

Joesph Sobran was the PaleoConservative version of Pat Buchanan


56 posted on 09/30/2010 11:42:03 PM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: dennisw

Maybe the priorities are different between Jews in the U.S. and those elsewhere. In the U.S., a typical Jewish person may view a relatively cohesive white majority (i.e., traditional America) as their biggest concern, and vote accordingly leftward to reduce that perceived threat. But in Israel, they see neighboring Muslims as the main threat and vote to the right. Here, universalism, there ethnocentrism.


57 posted on 10/01/2010 12:11:41 AM PDT by ruination
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To: grey_whiskers
RIP Joe. He gave the single best explanation of the workings of the left I have ever seen: The Hive

Wow, great essay. Thanks for the link.

58 posted on 10/01/2010 12:19:47 AM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: ruination

Jews vote liberal because of a misguided sense of social justice. Open borders are not in Jewish interests but this how they vote. The new immigrants will vote for wealth re-distribution which generally hurts Jewish people

All these 3rd world immigrants will not be voting for pro-Israel candidates.


59 posted on 10/01/2010 12:49:38 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: Larry Lucido

Back in the 1970’s Sobran did radio commentary as part of a CBS Radio series that included liberals and conservatives in rotation with other.

I remember him well from those days.

May Joe indeed Rest In Peace.


60 posted on 10/01/2010 1:08:38 AM PDT by Nextrush (Slocialist Republicans and Socialist Democrats need to go)
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To: Nonstatist

“he also argued that the 9/11 attacks were a result of the U.S. government’s policies regarding the Middle East.”

I thought this was an obvious truth; without even touching on the Jewish issue, our history in other parts of the Middle East (Iran, Libya, Lebanon) certainly could have contributed to that.


61 posted on 10/01/2010 2:41:21 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: Tribemike1
Just read John 8 first...

I can assure you, I have spent hours studying John 8, as well as all the Scriptures. In Hebrew and Greek even. How about you?
62 posted on 10/01/2010 4:15:39 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: caww
I think he has who Christ spoke to incomplete...it was the Jewish leadership...the religious leaders...the same could be said of many religious leaders thru the centuries even til today. They demand their memberships to do what they themsleves do not....and yes there are men and now woman in the pulpits who could easily be said are :children of the deveil”...so what’s that guys beef really?

His beef? Repeating the same nonsense that made up the blood libels that preceded every pogrom. The fact is, the Greek of Acts 21:20 indicates that nearly half the population of Jerusalem in 59 CE were followers of Messiah. So the whole "the JOOOOZ rejected Christ" is demonstrably false - and is nigh to "the JOOOOZ are Christ Killers."

Sobran was decidedly anti-Israel. That does not itself make him anti-Semitic, but when one closely examined his arguments about Israel - coupled with his own ethnic origins, it became clear that there was something akin to Helen Thomas or George Mitchell bias on Sobran's part. Then of course, he had to open his mouth and the evidence was in: yup. Anti-Semitic.
63 posted on 10/01/2010 4:24:58 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Mrs. Don-o

May his memory be eternal.


64 posted on 10/01/2010 4:28:09 AM PDT by don-o ("At this point, Islam is just surging into a vacuum" - Mrs Don-o)
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To: Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo

R.I.P. Joe.


65 posted on 10/01/2010 4:48:23 AM PDT by Tribune7 (The Democrat Party is not a political organization but a religious cult.)
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To: caww

The Bible makes no distinction on “leaders.” Look at the book of Joshua...when Aachan hid the spoils of the Canaanites in his tent....then the Hebrews were defeated at AI. The USA did the same in WW II...we did not declare war on the Japanese “leaders” who master-minded the attack on Pearl Harbor.

God said, “Israel has sinned....” not “Aachan has sinned...”

So too, when Christ arrived, John 8 tells us the chosen people were divided into two categories...those who accepted him and those who rejected him. The Jews (which is what the NT calls this group) made an argument from pedigree (Abraham is our father - implied, you are a half breed, who is your father?)...Christ told them only those who do the deeds of Abraham qualify.

40 years later the temple was destroyed and the Talmudic Rabinnical Judiasm that evolved over the centuries is not the same as the sacrificial-based worship model the Lord set up and then destroyed in the 1st Century and it is definitely hostile to Jesus Christ.

The two sides existed all the way to Calvary....one side was decidedly smaller in number and even lost one from its ranks for a short time (Peter)....the other side screamed “His blood be upon us and our children”...that is what the account says.

E. Michael Jones has written the definitive work on this history here: (5 star)

http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Revolutionary-Spirit-Impact-History/dp/0929891074


66 posted on 10/01/2010 4:51:48 AM PDT by Tribemike1
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To: Nonstatist

May people spit at you in similar fashion as you pass.


67 posted on 10/01/2010 5:21:27 AM PDT by Luke21
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To: Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo
I was aware that he had been ill for a few years now. What a shame.

RIP, Mr. Sobran.

68 posted on 10/01/2010 6:05:16 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Luke21
May people spit at you in similar fashion as you pass.

You don't know me so should you judge me, Hate Boy? OTOH,I acknowledge that Mr Sobran probably was a victim of mental illness in his later years, see post 24.

69 posted on 10/01/2010 6:49:02 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: ruination

No he was viciously anti Israel to a point of irrationality.


70 posted on 10/01/2010 7:29:37 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo; don-o
I debated him for the Catholic Forum in DC some 25 years ago. Topic: Prolife Seamless Garment. It turns out we were more in agreement than we had thought, he was a fair and even generous opponent, and in general it's one of the most pleasant and rewarding debates I've ever been in.

I hadn't kept up to see how he was doing. My impression was that he was very bright but sometimes went sproing-ing off on odd tangents, somewhat like E. Michael Jones.

So I have a fond place for in in my heart, and hope he may find a merciful judgment and a rescuing hand: which is what, I think, he would want for his opponents, and what One wants for all.

71 posted on 10/01/2010 8:20:25 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance and give you peace.")
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To: ruination
Maybe the priorities are different between Jews in the U.S. and those elsewhere. In the U.S., a typical Jewish person may view a relatively cohesive white majority (i.e., traditional America) as their biggest concern, and vote accordingly leftward to reduce that perceived threat. But in Israel, they see neighboring Muslims as the main threat and vote to the right. Here, universalism, there ethnocentrism.
A reasonable thought but voting for Obama over McCain disproves this. McCain was no less for immigration, whereas Obama is an enemy. Jews (like the Irish in the Northeast) are motivated by Greivance Politics, not rational ethnosolidarity.
72 posted on 10/01/2010 10:20:23 AM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: Tribemike1

You praise Jones, a bigot who holds that Jews are a plague on the West because of thier Judaism and Jewishness and who hates Israel, but not on racial basis. What exactly is your tribe, Mike?


73 posted on 10/01/2010 10:24:15 AM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo

A great writer and a brave man. May Joe rest in peace.


74 posted on 10/01/2010 10:37:44 AM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: rmlew

I disagree with your inaccurate caricature and ad hominem attack on E. Michael Jones...what is your schtick rnlew?


75 posted on 10/01/2010 11:23:21 AM PDT by Tribemike1
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To: Tribemike1
I disagree with your inaccurate caricature and ad hominem attack on E. Michael Jones...what is your schtick rnlew?
I'm a Jew, who doesn't like antisemites. Now show us how I characterized Jones.
76 posted on 10/01/2010 11:44:28 AM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo

May he rest in peace.


77 posted on 10/01/2010 12:07:41 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: rmlew
A reasonable thought but voting for Obama over McCain disproves this. McCain was no less for immigration, whereas Obama is an enemy.

On immigration, yeah, but Obama had the entire package. He is Mr. Universalism. The ultimate in the new, multiracial, multicultural America in which support for open borders is a given.

On the other hand, McCain was a white military guy with this strange side obsession on Hispanic immigration. If he'd supported the 1990 Civil Rights Act, MLK day and participated in a sit-in or two, maybe he'd have gotten more Jewish support.
78 posted on 10/01/2010 12:24:37 PM PDT by ruination
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To: ruination
On the other hand, McCain was a white military guy with this strange side obsession on Hispanic immigration.

Hi$ ob$e$$ion is entirely about the big agricultural doner$ for hi$ campaign$. He i$ in their pocket$ and ha$ been for decade$.

79 posted on 10/01/2010 12:28:42 PM PDT by Ditto (Nov 2, 2010 -- Time to Clean House.)
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To: rmlew

You are apparently an Abe-Foxman type that hurls “anti-semite” at anyone who may disagree with anything you have to say on the subject.

Tell me, are the muslims anti-semitic semites? Is Noam Chomsky an anti-semitic semite? What would you call the 85% block of American Jews who vote against Israel’s much stronger position offered by the Republicans in favor of Obama who represents a much more hostile position against Israel?


80 posted on 10/01/2010 12:28:48 PM PDT by Tribemike1
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To: Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo

I held Sobran in high regard.

May the Lord give him rest.


81 posted on 10/01/2010 12:41:58 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: Nonstatist

>>>>Besides being accused by William Buckley of being an anti-Semite and being fired from NR

That is a blatant lie. I have a copy of William F. Buckley’s 1991 book, “In Search of Anti-Semitism”, which he wrote describing his conflicts with Joe Sobran and Pat Buchanan. On page 11 of the book, Buckley defended Sobran against accusations that he was anti-semitic, by noting that:

“Those who know Joe Sobran know not only that he does not harbor ethnic prejudices, but that he regards such prejudice as sinful, despised by God, and therefore despised by man” (Buckley 1991, p. 11)

Buckley however accused Sobran of violating “the structure of prevailing taboos” when talking about Jews in America in the post World War Two era. What Buckley meant was that, while Sobran’s comments about Jews may have been acceptable by mainstream Americans in the pre-war years, in the post World War Two era, mainstream media writers were obligated to show extra sensitivity to Jews because of the European Holocaust.

Sobran can be accused of insensitivity to Jews and Israel, but he never crossed the line to overt anti-semitism in his comments, the way David Duke does. Buckley fired Sobran from National Review for insurbodination, after both men fiercely disagreed over the first Iraq War of 1991. Sobran wrote a long essay later in 1991, describing the dispute that led to his firing. Both men reconciled before Buckley’s death in 2008, and Sobran had a very nice column about his former boss at his passing.


82 posted on 10/01/2010 1:54:22 PM PDT by pinochet
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To: Special Agent Anthony DiNozzo
Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat ei. Requiescat in pace. Amen.

Anima eius, et animæ omnium fidelium defunctorum, per misericordiam Dei, requiescant in pace. Amen.
83 posted on 10/01/2010 2:05:30 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
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To: pinochet
Sobran had a very nice column about his former boss at his passing.

I don't know if you are talking about this article, which was written when Buckley had become seriously ill. Regardless, it's a very eloquent, classy, and truly Christian piece of prose.

84 posted on 10/01/2010 2:43:30 PM PDT by murdoog ("Aim high. Shoot straight. Praise the Lord. Audit the FED." Gary North)
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To: pinochet
Buckley however accused Sobran of violating “the structure of prevailing taboos

To be specific, Buckley accused Sobran of "contextual" anti- Semitism, and also accused him of libel and moral incapacitation, before firing him from NR.

It is indisputable that his last 10 years at least he ended up in some weird place where the US was responsible for the 9-11 attacks, George Bush was on the verge of nuking Syria, and the Jew-Zionist conspiracy ran US foreign policy, and so on. A bit deranged, was he.

85 posted on 10/01/2010 3:02:27 PM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Tribemike1
You are apparently an Abe-Foxman type that hurls “anti-semite” at anyone who may disagree with anything you have to say on the subject.
Sit your behind down newby and look at my posting history. I've slammed Foxman numerous times.
You'd also learn that I debated for and defended Pat Buchanan in 2000.

Tell me, are the muslims anti-semitic semites?
YES. GO READ MY POSTING HISTORY.

Is Noam Chomsky an anti-semitic semite?
He's an antisemitic communist of Jewish descent.

What would you call the 85% block of American Jews who vote against Israel’s much stronger position offered by the Republicans in favor of Obama who represents a much more hostile position against Israel?
Idiots. People whose primary religion is liberalism and not Judaism. However, I never bought the 85% number as it oversamples urban areas. And even within urban areas, there are differences. Upper West Side Jews vote different than Borrough Park Jews in NYC.

86 posted on 10/01/2010 3:12:07 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: pinochet; Billy the Mountain
Sobran can be accused of insensitivity to Jews and Israel, but he never crossed the line to overt anti-semitism in his comments, the way David Duke does. Buckley fired Sobran from National Review for insurbodination, after both men fiercely disagreed over the first Iraq War of 1991. Sobran wrote a long essay later in 1991, describing the dispute that led to his firing. Both men reconciled before Buckley’s death in 2008, and Sobran had a very nice column about his former boss at his passing.

Sobran most definitely did cross into explicit antisemitism. In The Church and Jewish Ideology, Sobran blames communism and leftism on Jews and the Talmud, despite communism being anti-Jewish. (Marx and Sobran's antisemitms is not that disimmelar. They want to end Judaism and wretched Jewishness by having Jews convert. Of course, Marx Wanted Jewish to become communists.)

Sobran's “For Fear of the Jews” was a speech given at a Holocaust Denial conference for IHR. There Sobran tries to redefine antisemitism out of existance and paint those who dislike Jews as victimes of Jewish power.

Sobran didn't like any Jews, except those that converted.

88 posted on 10/01/2010 4:02:53 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: Billy the Mountain; Tribemike1
Most of these types think Jesus Christ was an anti-semite.
False prophet, not antisemite. But that's not the point. I don't go around attacking Christianity. I happen to think that it is a beneficial religion. E. Michael Jones wrote many articles attacking Jews. Instead of making snarky and false comments, go read Jones and tell me how he is not a hater of Jews and Judaism.
89 posted on 10/01/2010 4:07:43 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: Billy the Mountain; ruination
Sobran: My Obsession with Jews [for all who mistakenly think he is a valuable contributor] Forget my interpretation. Bull Buckley called Sobran and antisemite. So did Chuck Morse. Facts are stubborn things. You can say that Sobran was a good writter despite his antisemitism, but stop being an intellectual coward.
90 posted on 10/01/2010 4:26:50 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: rmlew

False prophet but not an anti-semite???? So, when Louis
Farrakhan calls Judiasm “ a dirty religion,” he’s not acting like an anti-semite, he is just saying the Jews follow a false God...lets give him a pass....

In John 8, there is a major dividing point in history on who is true and who is false. Jesus Christ called the system of the incumbent Jews, their system, their construct....of the devil...their response was to say he was demon possessed and they tried to stone him....other than that, there was agreement.

This is what E. Michael Jones points out. I have read him...he analyzes and draws a conclusion. He is the publisher of “Culture Wars” which is a great read. He is not a “hater” of the Jews ...he does call out a general pattern....a revolutionary pattern and guess what we see on a global basis...the majority of Jews are socialistic and marxist (very LEFT) minded in their political views. Revolutions tend to be driven by this kind of ideology.

American Jews most definitely are. Ronald Reagan was the greatest friend Israel ever had and I think he polled no more thatn 25% of the Jewish vote....unbelievable. It is an empirical fact...get over it. I don’t like it any more than you do.

I’m part Irish....one of my favorite jokes is “why did God invent liquor?” Answer: To keep the Irish from taking over the world....I accept that general stereotype...it is hard to argue with.

For every Don Feder and David Horowitz, there seems to be DOZENS of Paul Krugman’s. For every BiBi type politician, there are scores of Carl Levins, Chuck Schumers, who are completely antithetical in political philosophy...Look at the Jews on the Supreme Court - Breyer, Ginsberg, Kagan...do you want to claim them?

Why is that? Instead of hurling invectives at like-minded folks on this Forum, direct your energies to knocking the scales off the 85% of your heritage that are clueless or inconsistent in their political ideology to the detriment of Israel.


91 posted on 10/01/2010 4:43:39 PM PDT by Tribemike1
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Comment #92 Removed by Moderator

To: rmlew

>>>>They want to end Judaism and wretched Jewishness by having Jews convert

America’s largest Protestant denomination, the Southern Baptists, have been working hard for the past 15 years to convert Jews to Christianity. Do you consider the Southern Baptists to be anti-semites? Most Christians do not think so. Abe Foxman does: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ChJew_31/4798_31.htm

>>>>Sobran’s “For Fear of the Jews” was a speech given at a Holocaust Denial conference for IHR. There Sobran tries to redefine antisemitism out of existance and paint those who dislike Jews as victimes of Jewish power

By the way, Sobran had Jewish friends, who helped him in his time of need. The Sobran speech that you link to, contains this important quote:

(”If I were to hate Jews en masse, without distinction, I would be guilty of many things. Obviously I’d be guilty of injustice and uncharity to Jews as human beings. I would also be guilty of willful stupidity. More personally, I’d be guilty of ingratitude to my benefactors — which Dante, in his Inferno, ranks the worst of all sins — since many of my benefactors, in large ways and small, have been Jewish”

“Moreover, I would be becoming exactly the man my Zionist enemies would like me to be; a man like them, in whom ethnic hostilities take priority over all other values and considerations. I would justify them in treating me as an enemy. In fact I’d go so far as to say that I would be helping to justify the state of Israel. I consider that if I fight these people on their terms, they have already won”)

As a supporter of Israel, I did not agree with Sobran’s opinions. But there was a line he did not cross on the Jewish issue, that separated him from David Duke, Willis Carto, and William Pierce.


93 posted on 10/01/2010 5:00:44 PM PDT by pinochet
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To: Tribemike1; Billy the Mountain
False prophet but not an anti-semite???? So, when Louis Farrakhan calls Judiasm “ a dirty religion,” he’s not acting like an anti-semite, he is just saying the Jews follow a false God...lets give him a pass...
CS Lewis famously said that Jesus was either God, a liar, or a lunatic. Was he anti-Christian? I am stating the obvious. As a Jew, I don't consider Jesus to be the Messiah and he broke numerous laws. QED False Prophet. I'm not being anti-Christian. I don't go around denouncing Christians for their faith, quite the opposite. I'm sorry taht you can't understand distinction. But If merely stating that Jesus was a false prophet makes me anti-Christian, then stating that Jeus completed Judaism is anti-Jewish. You are praciticing the same pathetic victimhood you attribute to Jews. Stop it. It is intellectually dishonest and puerile.

This is what E. Michael Jones points out. I have read him...he analyzes and draws a conclusion. He is the publisher of “Culture Wars” which is a great read. He is not a “hater” of the Jews ...he does call out a general pattern....a revolutionary pattern and guess what we see on a global basis...the majority of Jews are socialistic and marxist (very LEFT) minded in their political views. Revolutions tend to be driven by this kind of ideology.
Jews are a pernicious evil but I don't jhate them. Got it. (sarcasm)
BTW, has Jones ever addressed Marx's "On the Jewish Question", where the ex-Lutheran calls for the end of Judaism and Jewishness? I've never seen it in his archives. I wonder why.

American Jews most definitely are. Ronald Reagan was the greatest friend Israel ever had and I think he polled no more thatn 25% of the Jewish vote....unbelievable. It is an empirical fact...get over it. I don’t like it any more than you do.
Jones and Sobran hate conservative Jews, who tend to be Zionist. They have no lover for conservatives in Israel. But if you want to address the failings of American Jews, fine. It is their ersatz religion of liberalism which trumps any semblance of Judaism among most. (I'm being a hypocrite here, since today was a Jewish holiday, Simchat Torah, and tonight is the Sabbath.) Most Jews are not religiously observant, don't go to synagogue, and belong to Reform and "Conservative" Synagogues where liberalism trumps Judaism. But if you want to understand how Jews vote, teh issue is grievance politics a universal infection among Western minorities.

I’m part Irish....one of my favorite jokes is “why did God invent liquor?” Answer: To keep the Irish from taking over the world....I accept that general stereotype...it is hard to argue with.
Fine, try "Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion". Irish were doctrinate machine Democrats and then socialists from 1840's until the 1970s. Most white Catholics in the Northeast still are, despite teh hatred of Catholicism from the left. And it is no different in the UK.

For every Don Feder and David Horowitz, there seems to be DOZENS of Paul Krugman’s. For every BiBi type politician, there are scores of Carl Levins, Chuck Schumers, who are completely antithetical in political philosophy...Look at the Jews on the Supreme Court - Breyer, Ginsberg, Kagan...do you want to claim them?
How many are Jewish. Kagan is a lesbian who has not attended Synagogue regularly since she was 13. Breyer married a Christian and his kids are Christian.

Why is that? Instead of hurling invectives at like-minded folks on this Forum, direct your energies to knocking the scales off the 85% of your heritage that are clueless or inconsistent in their political ideology to the detriment of Israel.
You really don't know me or wwhat I do.

94 posted on 10/01/2010 5:10:57 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: wideawake

Your thoughts in this thread would be interesting.


95 posted on 10/01/2010 5:14:19 PM PDT by Borges
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To: pinochet
America’s largest Protestant denomination, the Southern Baptists, have been working hard for the past 15 years to convert Jews to Christianity. Do you consider the Southern Baptists to be anti-semites? Most Christians do not think so. Abe Foxman does: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ChJew_31/4798_31.htm
Abe Foxman is a retard who hides behind his mothers history (BFD my father is a Holocaust survivor as were all my grandparents. Should I get platfor bigger than ABE). He thinkgs taht Protestants are Tzarist Slavophiles or something and Muslims are saints. He's not worth the oxygen he metabolizes.
I have no problem with those inviting me to convert. Those who want to kill me or those who protect those who did or are trying to do so are the problem. Sobran defended Holocaust Deniers and communist attacking Israel.

By the way, Sobran had Jewish friends, who helped him in his time of need. The Sobran speech that you link to, contains this important quote:
Every antisemite finds a useful idiot or some schmuck who put personal loyalty above all. It proves nothing. Besides, Sobran hates Jews for Judaism, not breathing.

As a supporter of Israel, I did not agree with Sobran’s opinions. But there was a line he did not cross on the Jewish issue, that separated him from David Duke, Willis Carto, and William Pierce.
Only exterminationism counts as antisemitism?

96 posted on 10/01/2010 5:16:53 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: rmlew
Bull Buckley called Sobran and antisemite. So did Chuck Morse.

Putting aside the fact that we don't necessarily need Bill Buckley to inform us how to view the world, what exactly did he say about Sobran?

And who is Chuck Morse and why are we referring to his particular opinion on the matter? Do you want my neighbor Tom's take on it?
97 posted on 10/01/2010 5:37:51 PM PDT by ruination
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To: Zionist Conspirator

What do you think?


98 posted on 10/01/2010 5:43:04 PM PDT by Borges
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To: rmlew

Based on what you say about Jesus Christ here...”He is a false prophet..” then is it OK for me to level at you what you level at E. Michael Jones? Conclusion: you are a Christian hater....but I won’t.

The Jews are vast majority socialist/marxist/leftist..across the globe. You apparently are some kind syncretist ...a conservative guy who things Jesus Christ is a complete liar and deceiver..but you prefer conservative ideology for your own lifestyle. OK, so should I call you an Anti-Christian or a Christ Killer wanna-be? Would you have been screaming “his blood be upon us and our children” had you been in Jerusalem circa. 30 AD?

This is what you do when call others(of non-semitic origin) who disagree with full-blown Zionism “anti-semite.” Call Chuck Schumer an anti-semite for he is by his choices.

Ever heard of David Goldstein? He waa a Jewish guy at the turn of the last century, a zealous Zionist and socialist...then he converted to Catholicism and became a huge apologist. He used to vex his fellow Jews by simply asking them ...”does Jew refer to a race or a religion? “

It cannot be a race since if a “Jew” converts to Christianity, then magically the person is no longer a Jew...however, if you become an atheist or a Buddhist, you are still a Jew...imagine that.

E. Michael Jones points out that Judaism is a religion ...but of a particular kind...it is anti-Jesus Christ-ism. The Talmudic/Rabbinical model is not the same religion of Moses/Aaron with its sacrificial system.

I had Jewish neighbors..loved them...socialized all the time with them...then I asked about their children and the wife explained she no longer speaks to her son (going on 7 years)...His sin? He married a Christian girl and converted to Christianity...she treats him as dead.

I got to thinking..had her son married my daughter, it would be no different..she still wouldn’t be speaking to him...and probably wouldn’t speak to me either. So would she host me at her home in these social events? Her husband, my friend, told me he keeps in secret contact with his son.

Christians unequivocally believe that Jesus proved to be the Messiah by His teachings, works, life, death, resurrection, and the fulfillment of His prophecies. We believe that Jesus was greater than Moses, in that much taught by Moses was of a temporary nature, being binding only until their fulfillment by the coming prophet, Christ. As Goldstein puts it, “Moses spoke to God the Father in a cloud; Christ saw Him face to face.”...Careful now, I’m quoting a Jew here so this is philo-semetic :-)

You are saying that Christ is a complete sham and by implication you are a Christian hater, are you not?


99 posted on 10/01/2010 6:03:13 PM PDT by Tribemike1
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To: Borges
Sobran made my skin crawl, but he is a cautionary tale. He demonstrated the extreme danger of intellectual pride. Like Sobran probably did, I consider myself an adherent not just of Catholicism but also of traditional Catholic culture.

It would be easy to assume that this would inoculate you from theological, moral and intellectual enormities.

But pride is insidious and it can take a solidly grounded Catholic and make him into a sedevacantist cultist, a vicious anti-Semite and a mentally unhinged Shakespeare conspiracy theorist. Exploring his thinking over the past two decades would be an exercise in teratology.

I hope he was given the grace of clarity in his last moments.

100 posted on 10/01/2010 6:13:51 PM PDT by wideawake
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