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Push to axe Collins subs now, buy European (Australia)
The Australian ^ | October 07, 2010 | Cameron Stewart

Posted on 10/06/2010 6:25:49 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Push to axe Collins subs now, buy European

Cameron Stewart

From: The Australian October 07, 2010 12:00AM

A RADICAL plan is being pushed by a group of senior Australian submariners.

It is to retire two Collins-class submarines immediately and fast-track the purchase of four ready-made submarines from Europe.

The proposal, which has been sent to both the federal government and the opposition, reflects growing concern among some former senior naval officers that the government's plan to build 12 of the world's most sophisticated conventional submarines is flawed and unrealistic.

The proposal comes after Treasury last week urged the federal government to buy more off-the-shelf weaponry.

The former submariners say that Australia cannot afford to wait until 2025 for the new submarines and must take urgent action to buy off-the-shelf submarines from Europe to progressively replace the under-performing Collins-class fleet.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar. .End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar. "Australia should rapidly acquire four locally built military-off-the-shelf (MOTS) submarines to address the submarine availability issue and address the growing capability gap between the Collins-class submarines and the modern submarines proliferating throughout the region," said Rex Patrick, a former submariner who assists the navy in undersea warfare training and who has authored the proposal.

"The Collins-class submarine program has been an unmitigated failure and two of the submarines should be decommissioned immediately (the HMAS Rankin and HMAS Collins) -- they are not available anyway, there are no crews for them and maintaining them is placing an ever increasing burden on the navy's budget."

The Rudd government's defence white paper committed to building 12 large, sophisticated submarines in Australia to replace the six Collins-class boats from the mid-2020s.

The plan to build 12 large homegrown submarines has been costed by the

(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.com.au ...


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: australia; collins; navy; ssk; submarine

Cutaway of the Collins class submarine

1 posted on 10/06/2010 6:25:56 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
they are not available anyway, there are no crews for them and maintaining them is placing an ever increasing burden on the navy's budget

If you aren't going to pay for crews what is the point of having any subs at all? If they buy off the shelf Euro subs and don't train any crews they will be just as useless.

Sub crews need to be highly trained to be effective. Any boat, no matter how inexpensive to buy, is a waste of money if it is tied to a dock rusting with no trained crew to operate it.
2 posted on 10/06/2010 6:49:46 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I’m in Maine, and I got excited when I saw the headline, “...ax Collins.”

I thought they were talking about Susan Collins.


3 posted on 10/06/2010 6:51:54 AM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (The rallying cry of American patriots.....REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!)
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To: GonzoGOP

The newer Euro-boats have much smaller manning requirements with approximately 30 personnel to a boat compared to 40-odd for the Collins class. This along with their new air independent propulsion systems make them attractive in one sense for the RAN. However the Collins was designed for sustained oceanic operations just like the big Japanese subs.


4 posted on 10/06/2010 6:53:30 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: GonzoGOP

Crewing is the problem - people can earn so much money now in the Western Australian mines, that the RAN is having serious recruiting and retention problems. Submariners are among the best trained, and so are very attractive to industry.

The RAN is perfectly prepared to pay for crews - and submariners earn a lot of money with their allowances compared to other members of the Australian Defence Force - but there’s a limit to what you can do when you are competing with quarter of a million dollar salaries for people with the skills of officers or chiefs, and six figures for somebody with the skills of a 20 year old Able Seaman.


5 posted on 10/06/2010 7:23:19 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: naturalman1975

Perhaps these sailors should be lionised a bit more somehow. Being a miner shouldn’t carry a carry too much less prestige than serving your country...


6 posted on 10/10/2010 5:21:22 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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