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Is ‘hunter orange’ requirement responsible for accidents?(WA)
Seattle Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 5 October, 2010 | Dave Workman

Posted on 10/07/2010 5:17:22 AM PDT by marktwain

Washington State has had in recent memory three fairly high-profile hunting-related fatalities in which the victims were all non-hunters, and were killed by people who thought they were shooting at game.

In two of those cases, the hunters thought they were shooting at black bears and in the third case, the hunter believed he fired at an elk. This column discussed the most recent of those incidents here, and mentioned the use of fluorescent hunter orange by non-hunters during the hunting season.

We also contacted Wayne East, executive director of the Colorado-based International Hunter Education Association (IHEA). Currently, about 40 states mandate the use of hunter orange, and it is taught rigorously in hunter education courses how important it is to visually confirm your target. One cannot simply shoot at a movement. That’s neither responsible nor safe. In three known cases here in the Evergreen State, it’s been fatal.

Over the weekend, I spoke with a pal about these incidents, and one might wonder if hunter orange, or the lack of it, might have played a part in these tragedies. Before anybody blows a gasket, just consider the possibility, however unlikely (and even foolish), that the shooters in these incidents including a 14-year-old kid, might have subconsciously presumed that the image they saw – the target – could not have been a person because he/she wasn’t wearing orange. Sounds stupid, right?

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: banglist; hunting; orange; wa
Wow. Someone wearing a brown jacket and crawling on hands and knees during deer season?
1 posted on 10/07/2010 5:17:25 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Never shoot unless you know what you’re shooting at... anything else is plain stupidity as a result of poor training and or just shooting anything that moves.


2 posted on 10/07/2010 5:22:07 AM PDT by maddog55 (OBAMA, You can't fix stupid...)
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To: marktwain

Stupid people using firearms.

Carry a good pair of binoculars and NEVER raise your weapon until you are 100% sure you are going to fire at game and not another human. If you let one get away then so be it.


3 posted on 10/07/2010 5:23:57 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: marktwain
I mountain bike a whole lot all year round. During hunting season (even when it is just bow season), I put a nice bright hunter orange cover on my Camelbak. I also try to ride during the middle of the day when the deer are not active. Most hunting is done closer to dawn and dusk.
It just makes sense to take some precautions. Also, it is courteous to the hunters.
4 posted on 10/07/2010 5:24:43 AM PDT by Londo Molari
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To: marktwain

5 posted on 10/07/2010 5:26:41 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Pro Aris et Focis")
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To: marktwain

just wear orange.....it is a life saver....

back when ABS first came out, I worked with a guy who thought people who bought cars with ABS should have to pay HIGHER insurance rates to pay for accidents where people who tailgated them and then rear ended them (because the ABS driver were able to stop so well). so in his mind, the ABS owning/rear ended drivers, were the cause of the accident.

along the same lines, this blaming blaze orange for people being shot who were not wearing it, is just too stupid to believe.


6 posted on 10/07/2010 5:32:36 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: marktwain

“Someone wearing a brown jacket and crawling on hands and knees during deer season?”

I am having a hard time believing that, but people are unaware of things too. Back in the day when I was unaware of deer season, we would be going on a caving trip. This normally means tromping through the woods making all kinds of noise and disrupting hunter’s plans, unintentionally. On this same day, we seen a shotgun hunter with a pint of whiskey in one hand and a handgun in the other shooting into the creek. I have seen some incredibly stupid shotgun hunters in Indiana.


7 posted on 10/07/2010 5:34:20 AM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: OldMissileer
Stupid people using firearms.

Carry a good pair of binoculars and NEVER raise your weapon until you are 100% sure you are going to fire at game and not another human. If you let one get away then so be it.

but what do YOU do to protect yourselves who are too stupid to follow the basic rules?

I will answer that for you....WEAR BLAZE ORANGE! simple

8 posted on 10/07/2010 5:35:03 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: maddog55

Way back in the mid-1980’s a man I worked with then told about someone shot that past deer season.

A man had shot a buck and instead of dragging it back to camp, humped it over his shoulders and walked towards his camp. He never made it — he was shot dead when someone mistook him for a deer!


9 posted on 10/07/2010 5:36:49 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: marktwain
Unless Washington is going to required all hikers, berry pickers, mushroom pickers, rock collectors, fly fisherman, pot growers, Big Foot investigators, tree spikers, fern pickers, lumber jacks, prison escapees, and about anyone else you may encounter in Washington forest to wear hunter orange, I'm not sure what good its going to do, because there is a lot of people out there besides hunters.

It all comes down on Hunter education. When I was a kid, how to hunt without killing yourself and others was passed down from the last generation. My Dad also took me to a Hunters Safety Class. Nowadays you have people out there shooting that never were told about identifying your target ,and knowing what was behind the target. They just buy themselves a rifle, get a hunting permit, and go for it.

10 posted on 10/07/2010 5:37:06 AM PDT by NavyCanDo (What If Glenn Beck is Wright?)
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To: marktwain

He might have a point.
I’ve noticed that motorcycle riders wearing full leathers and full face helmets ride a little more dangerously then those without the protective gear. I even found myself doing it – after all, I was fully protected. I’ve found that over the years as full roll cages, impact absorbing frames and “air” bags have been mandated for cars people don’t drive as carefully as before. They feel fully protected.
The casual once a year hunter might feel the same way, don’t see blaze orange? Go ahead and shoot! It’s safe! The excitement of getting in a shot overrides safety.


11 posted on 10/07/2010 5:38:11 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: marktwain
Alaska doesn't have any hunter orange requirements, have always hunted in carharts, never see any other hunters, miles upon miles of open country, and like it that way.

Here in rural Ak, people still turn their horses out to fend for themselves over the winter, so it's common to see horses in thick woods within a few miles of people. Once I had a horse walk out of alders on me. Kinda surprised me as I figured it was a cow moose in the alders. Turned out the owner had a horse shot a few years earlier by a hunter.

12 posted on 10/07/2010 5:39:05 AM PDT by Eska
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To: marktwain
When orange was only available, and not yet required, I asked my dad about it. "I never saw a camoflage deer", he answered.

We had it drummed into our little pea-brains from early on that if you aren't sure what you are shooting at, you shouldn't be shooting it.

Now that I live somewhere where the shots are considerably longer on occasion, I can honestly say I prefer the Orange--it helps people know you are there if you end up on the other side of the animal they are hunting.

Of course, that doesn't stop idiots, it just warns them you might return the favor...

13 posted on 10/07/2010 5:40:19 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: marktwain
Wow. Someone wearing a brown jacket and crawling on hands and knees during deer season?

deer are close to color blind. In my hunting camp we all wear full blaze orange vests, minimum.

a friend had hunted hard all day and was tired and headed back to camp....he went down into a ravine and bent down to look at the rocks as this shale is loaded with fossils from the Devonian period. in effect he looked like he was a quadruped bent over as he was...an 8 point buck following a trail near him saw him bent over and assumed he was another animal....the big buck stomped the ground hard with his hoof to get the other ‘animals’ attention, at that point my friend stood up straight and put a round through this confused bucks boiler room. at the shot I ran to the crest of a hill in time to see Bambi's dad fall where he stood.

now the deer obviously did not know my buddy was wearing a blaze orange vest.... but another hunter would have known that.

14 posted on 10/07/2010 5:47:29 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Londo Molari

I yield the forest to the hunters during deer season.


15 posted on 10/07/2010 5:50:51 AM PDT by Rebelbase (Political correctness in America today is a Rip Van Winkle acid trip.)
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To: marktwain
Our neighbor owned a palomino pony and kept it in a small pen close to the house during hunting season. It got shot by a load of buckshot and survived. They then painted the sides of the pony with orange paint during hunting season and it still got shot again.

When I was a kid a neighbor was killed by a hunter when he was out behind his barn chopping wood. He had white gloves on and the guy that shot him thought he was a whitetail.

16 posted on 10/07/2010 5:56:54 AM PDT by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: OldMissileer

17 posted on 10/07/2010 6:03:48 AM PDT by SF_Redux
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To: marktwain

As someone who doesn’t hunt, at least not on land, it’s always made me laugh at the things hunter go through and wear so as not to scare away their prey.

Camouflage garb from head to toe (which isn’t cheap), including the weapon, blinds, stands, and topped off with sprinkling deer urine on ones self to avoid being smelled. Then throw it all away by wearing an ultra bright fluorescent orange vest.

LOL


18 posted on 10/07/2010 6:30:05 AM PDT by diverteach (D.C. has become Jonestown.)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Vaquero
ABS does increase stopping distances in some conditions:

Fresh snow
Gravel
Softish ice

In these instances the rolling of the wheels prevents a wedge of snow, gravel, ice chips from building up under the four tires thus increasing stopping distances.

ABS does allow control.

20 posted on 10/07/2010 6:36:12 AM PDT by Leo Farnsworth (I'm really not Leo Farnsworth.)
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To: marktwain

IIRC, nobody wearing blaze orange has ever been shot.


21 posted on 10/07/2010 6:43:11 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
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To: Leo Farnsworth
you miss the point completely.

one idiot assumed cars with ABS would stop better and wanted to blame people he would possibly rear end even though it was he that liked to practice tailgating

22 posted on 10/07/2010 6:54:14 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: FrPR
"hunting from stand"

Even that can be dangerous. I was unable to find the total numbers on the internet, but it appears a substantial numbers of deer hunting deaths are hunters who fall from their stands.

23 posted on 10/07/2010 7:20:50 AM PDT by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: marktwain

24 posted on 10/07/2010 7:28:55 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: marktwain

25 posted on 10/07/2010 7:30:14 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: mbynack
They then painted the sides of the pony with orange paint during hunting season and it still got shot again.

Just before hunting season while milking the cows on my uncle's farm, we would paint the word "Cow" on each one before they left the milk house.

They were Holsteins and thus black and white but we did lose a couple over the years to idiots or just plain nasty people.

26 posted on 10/07/2010 7:53:37 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: Vaquero

>>back when ABS first came out, I worked with a guy who thought people who bought cars with ABS should have to pay HIGHER insurance rates to pay for accidents where people who tailgated them and then rear ended them (because the ABS driver were able to stop so well). so in his mind, the ABS owning/rear ended drivers, were the cause of the accident.<<

Why did you include comments about cars in a thread about hunting safety? I am totally lost as to what you are referring to.


27 posted on 10/07/2010 8:23:27 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option. Train for the fight.)
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To: OldMissileer

Frustrated fools who didn’t see any game need to kill something. After all they did buy a ‘hunting license’.


28 posted on 10/07/2010 8:25:29 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option. Train for the fight.)
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To: B4Ranch

saying blaze orange causes hunting accidents is tantamount to saying that good brakes cause rear ending accidents to the cars with the good brakes....

sorry if it was a bit obtuse....maybe I need to switch my brand of coffee....I was a bit unfocused when I wrote it.


29 posted on 10/07/2010 8:32:16 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: marktwain
Big game hunting seasons are about to erupt with modern firearm deer and elk this month and in early November. Be extremely careful, take the time to fully identify the target and, as East suggested, pick a specific impact point for your bullet to make a clean, one-shot kill (we use the “K” word here because that’s what we do and it is honest; people “harvest” vegetables, but somebody kills that rib steak or hamburger). Archery and black powder seasons are already under way.
Once that bullet is gone, it cannot be called back.

Rule Four: Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

30 posted on 10/07/2010 8:40:12 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: marktwain
Several of us here in the East Texas Piney Woods will be out doing archaeological surveys this month. We WILL be wearing blaze orange vests, (I'll provide them) and most of us will be wearing blaze orange caps. as well...

Makes sense to me -- but I was one of those guys who wore a seat belt when you had to buy and install your own...

31 posted on 10/07/2010 8:44:03 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: FrPR

>Also, I refuse to hunt big game (including deer) with a shotgun. It’s just ridiculous, cruel, and irresponsible, even if it is “safer” according to government.

What about slug/sabot shotgun rounds?


32 posted on 10/07/2010 10:08:42 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Vaquero

Thanks for the explanation.


33 posted on 10/07/2010 11:01:11 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option. Train for the fight.)
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To: FrPR
Also, I refuse to hunt big game (including deer) with a shotgun

for 30 years the county I hunted in was shotgun/pistol/muzzleloader only. it has recently become a rifle county and I now use my Marlin 336 .35 Remington... or a 7mm Mauser sporter.

those deer, I took with a shotgun were mostly with foster slugs, a few with sabots all in all around 22 deer. this is brush country and I have never seen a shot over 100yds.

when hit in the chest, shoulder or even hind quarters with a 12 gauge slug, the deer go DOWN...mostly right away....the foster slug although slow makes a nice 70+ caliber hole in a deer. there is less hydrostatic damage to the meat than lets say a 30-06 so there is less waste.

you are not hunting undergunned with a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, just keep it under 100 yds with foster slugs and under 200yds with sabots. I would not think twice about shooting a black bear a moose or an elk with one at 75 yds or less....and it is known that fishing/hunting guides in Alaska carry short barreled pump shotguns with sabot slugs as backup in brown/grizzly country as at close range this thing is a sledgehammer...

34 posted on 10/07/2010 11:59:30 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: marktwain

I can believe it. I had a real yo-yo about to shoot my Weimaraner once because “he thought he saw a deer go into that bush” and was gonna take a “sound shot”. Even AFTER I yelled “DONT SHOOT THE DOG” at him a couple times. It took a shot into the air (actually into a tree) with my shotgun to get him to stop. They REALLY need to separate the deer and upland bird seasons here. Either that, or the next Weim I get will have to wear an orange vest, or Level IV body armor.

I’ve been pinned down by fire while hunting deer, also. I wasn’t sure of that was another “hunter” or a dope grower, though.


35 posted on 10/07/2010 3:03:31 PM PDT by Mr Inviso (ACORN=Arrogant Condescending Obama Ruining Nation)
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To: Vaquero
thank you...
36 posted on 10/07/2010 4:09:06 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Fred; Chattering Class of 58; SeattleBruce; tarator; 21twelve; Feasor13; matt1234; Bosun; ...
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Say WA? Evergreen State ping

Quick link: WA State Board

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this ping list.
Ping sionnsar if you see a Washington state related thread.

37 posted on 10/07/2010 7:25:24 PM PDT by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: Mr Inviso
I’ve been pinned down by fire while hunting deer, also. I wasn’t sure of that was another “hunter” or a dope grower, though.

One day during elk hunting I had a herd of elk come out of a thicket and run by me. All at once the morons a canyon over opened up and I had bullets whizzing by me. I hit the ground and ate dirt until the elk were gone. I moved to hunting with a bow and black powder and haven't had a problem since.

38 posted on 10/07/2010 8:55:29 PM PDT by ParityErr (It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.)
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