Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

U.S. Army Upgrades To .300 Winchester Magnum
The Strategy Page ^ | 10/7/2010 | The Strategy Page

Posted on 10/08/2010 10:07:43 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld

The U.S. Army has ordered 3,600 upgrade kits for its M24 bolt-action sniper rifles, which will convert them to the M24E1. This will turn the existing 7.62mm M24 rifles into ones capable of firing the .300 Winchester magnum (7.62x67) round. This is a more powerful round than the NATO 7.62x51 round currently used in the M24. The conversion kit includes a new receiver and barrel, a new scope, a new flash suppressor and a folding buttstock. The conversion will take five years and will cost about $7,800 per rifle. Last year, the army ordered 38.4 million rounds of .300 Winchester magnum ammunition for its newly modified M-24 sniper rifles, as well as similar SOCOMs Mk13 models. The new ammo costs about $1.30 per round. The .300 Winchester magnum ammo is ordered in minimum lots of 56,160 rounds (117 boxes of 480 rounds each). The entire 38.4 million rounds will last a while.

All this is in response to requests from snipers for a longer range weapon, but not one as bulky and heavy as the 13.6 kg (30 pound) .50 caliber/12.7mm rifle (which is good to about 2,000 meters). Thus the army is modifying existing M24 rifles to fire the more powerful .300 Winchester Magnum round. It was felt that this gave the snipers all the additional range they needed, without requiring a much heavier rifle. SOCOM has been using this approach since the early 1990s.

(Excerpt) Read more at strategypage.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 762mm; afganistan; banglist; firearms; rifle; sniper; socom; usarmy; usmc
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last

1 posted on 10/08/2010 10:07:48 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

How is replacing the receiver, barrel, stock, and scope a “conversion”?

You pretty much have a brand new rifle at that point.


2 posted on 10/08/2010 10:12:58 PM PDT by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

The calls were loudest from snipers operating in Afghanistan, where U.S. Army and Marine Corps shooters wanted a sniper rifle that can consistently get kills out to 1,800 meters. The current 7.62mm round was good only to about 800 meters. The 300 Winchester magnum is a more powerful, but not much larger, round than the current 7.62mm one. An improved version of the magnum round is expected to extend that range


3 posted on 10/08/2010 10:13:07 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Liberal homosexuals oppose diversity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

How much is a brand new rifle? It isn’t $8,000>


4 posted on 10/08/2010 10:13:24 PM PDT by Hoosier-Daddy ( "It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chaosagent
How is replacing the receiver, barrel, stock, and scope a “conversion”?

I guess you get to keep the old action

5 posted on 10/08/2010 10:18:21 PM PDT by fso301
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
"the army ordered 38.4 million rounds of .300 Winchester magnum ammunition"

If they ordered from Cabela's they probably got a Dry Box tossed in.. a $14.99 value.


6 posted on 10/08/2010 10:21:34 PM PDT by I see my hands (Unintentionally not left blank)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
Not certain , but think this is the new rifle:
7 posted on 10/08/2010 10:22:45 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Liberal homosexuals oppose diversity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

I think you right. I remembering seeing the same rifle when doing the background.


8 posted on 10/08/2010 10:23:50 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier-Daddy
"How much is a brand new rifle? It isn’t $8,000> "

That's what I thought at first, but considering all the bells and whistles, and the price of high quality scopes, that may not be that bad.

9 posted on 10/08/2010 10:27:40 PM PDT by matthew fuller (2012: Bachman, BOLTON, Liz Cheney, Coburn, DeMint, Inhofe, Jindal, Palin, Pawlenty and Pence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

I don’t get it?

Why not buy a whole new rifle matched to the bedding and stock and be done with it?

Seems like it would be less work.

And why does it cost $7,800 per box of parts and pieces?

Pretty sure a match rifle would cost only $2 or $3 grand, less scope, calculator, etc.


10 posted on 10/08/2010 10:29:53 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: I see my hands

Plus the annual leather bound Christmas edition.


11 posted on 10/08/2010 10:30:49 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
The new ammo costs about $1.30 per round.

It ain't how much firepower you've got, it's how much lead you can put on the target. A buck thirty for every jihadi sounds like a pretty good bargain to me.

12 posted on 10/08/2010 10:31:59 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Armies that have and keep the initiative always win the battle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

I gots to me me one of these!

You could sit on my porch in Orlando and plunk squirrels in Georgia


13 posted on 10/08/2010 10:43:37 PM PDT by DanielRedfoot (What a fool believes, No wise man has the power to reason away)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier-Daddy

“How much is a brand new rifle? It isn’t $8,000>”

Heck, a Barrett .50cal isn’t $7,800.00.
The Model 99 Bolt Action is only $4410.00
Retail price list reflects U.S. commercial sales.
http://barrett.net/pdfs/Price-List.pdf
Safety range needed - 5 miles. LOL


14 posted on 10/08/2010 10:45:33 PM PDT by rickb308 (Nothing good ever came from someone yelling "Allah Snackbar")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

This is a great move! The 300 Win Mag is an awesome round!

Given the amount they are ordering, there could be a shortage of whatever particular brand they are going to use.


15 posted on 10/08/2010 10:46:33 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

Looks sweet. Im getting a tingle up my leg thinking what this baby will do.


16 posted on 10/08/2010 10:51:00 PM PDT by max americana (Hoax and Chains, Dopeychangey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: chaosagent

As far as the BATF is concerned, as soon as you make or buy a new receiver, you have a new rifle.


17 posted on 10/08/2010 10:52:09 PM PDT by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Vendome

>I don’t get it?

Why not buy a whole new rifle<
......................

what happens to the old rifles?

melt them down?
sell to civilians?

nope,
0bama does not want the contrversy


18 posted on 10/08/2010 10:56:36 PM PDT by Talf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

I doubt they’re going to be able to keep a .30 cal pill supersonic out to 1,800 meters. 1,400... maybe. 1,500... with new bullet development, perhaps.


19 posted on 10/08/2010 11:01:30 PM PDT by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Vendome

Plus the internally illuminated globe and the black velvet portriat of the Kennedy brothers and MLK !


20 posted on 10/08/2010 11:03:14 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Fighting the "con" in Conservatism on FR since 1998.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Talf

Hmmmm....

Oh well. Already have match rifles and with the correct ammo could go 800+yrds maybe to a max of 1,100.

Haven’t shot to 800 since I was a kid but if I point the rifle at 45 degrees it should make it. LOL /s


21 posted on 10/08/2010 11:03:32 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

$7800 ???

Without looking at a drawing - I’ll bid $7500. This is a production run - not custom.

What a joke. This government is so out of control - they are getting me to root against military spending now!


22 posted on 10/08/2010 11:05:49 PM PDT by Eldon Tyrell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone
Not certain , but think this is the new rifle

That's the one.

23 posted on 10/08/2010 11:41:15 PM PDT by Daaave ( "Reach out and take it Reach out and ta-ta take it. ")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

Remington Wins M24E1 Upgrade Competition

Remington Defense has been awarded the contract to upgrade up to 3,600 of the Amry's M24 Sniper Weapon Systems (SWS) to what will be classified as the M24E1.

thefirearmblog.com

BTW, I saw a post on a forum that said the rifle retails for about $12K w/o scope.

24 posted on 10/08/2010 11:42:52 PM PDT by Daaave ( "Reach out and take it Reach out and ta-ta take it. ")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

Wasn’t the 338 Lampua Magnum developed for this sort of job?


25 posted on 10/08/2010 11:47:15 PM PDT by IDFbunny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: IDFbunny

.338 Lapua

It’s what the Brits use. And yes, it’s what the Army should have gone with...


26 posted on 10/08/2010 11:59:55 PM PDT by snuffy smiff (imagine if the GOP grew a brain-and threw all RINOs OUT! But that would also require a spine *sigh*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Daaave

It is not a just a up grade it is a whole new gun. Just calling it a upgrade they get to spend the money with out going thru the bid process.


27 posted on 10/09/2010 12:03:51 AM PDT by riverrunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
I think that the military ought to start investing in the high velocity 20mm grenade that was the only good thing that came out of the ridiculous XM-29 OICW concept rifle.

With a conventional rifle round, you're obligated to make a hit by calculating ballistics for 1000+ meters to ensure that the target actually gets a hole poked in it by the projectile. No matter what power the round has, you can't make a hit against a target in defilade or against one that has great cover with a conventional rifle. The target has to reveal themselves before you can shoot.

With a high velocity 20mm grenade, a variance of a 3 or 5 foot margin of error even against a target hunkered down in a fighting hole will be enough to shred them.

Let the USMC investigate the worthiness of a dedicated 20mm non-crew served sniper rifle using the XM-29 OICW round, or some modification of it if the US Army has lost interest in the concept.

28 posted on 10/09/2010 12:19:02 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: riverrunner
When the M24 was adopted for service, one of the Army's requirements was the ability to upgrade it to .300 Win Mag without a lot of fuss and this was bult-in to every M24 that was accepted for service use.

That said, for $7800 PER RIFLE, the Army could have bought new rifles and all sorts of goodies instead of the M24E1 (aka XM2010). I wonder what kind of dope the people who signed-off on this boondoggle are smoking?

29 posted on 10/09/2010 12:20:33 AM PDT by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

http://www.tcarms.com/articles/detail.php?a=25

For $3 grand probably the best shooting bolt action rifle I’ve ever seen. It’s criminal what the procurement people are getting away with.


30 posted on 10/09/2010 12:21:52 AM PDT by Dogbert41
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

300 Win Mag is an excellent choice for Moose hunting.


31 posted on 10/09/2010 12:42:51 AM PDT by TigersEye (Defend liberty. Destroy socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

My guess is that plenty of this money is actually going somewhere else. Perhaps laundering black ops money?


32 posted on 10/09/2010 12:53:33 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Daaave
Daaave,

Thanks, great photos.

What kind of giant scope is that on the second rifle from the top?

Night vision?

And, do you have any photos of the semi-automatic sniper weapons that were discussed in the last few paragraphs of the article?

Thanks again...

33 posted on 10/09/2010 12:56:18 AM PDT by zeestephen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
I called forester a few months back and they were awful proud that they had a big order for dies going to Ft Bragg; 300 Win Mag.

We have a few AR's, hunt with them off snowmachine & 4 wheeler; great with team slings. Caribou came through a few weeks back and I shot a bull with 6.8 spc; 4X32 acog ghost ring/red dot. I had snuck in on them, but they winded me took off and didn't stop till they were 6-7 hundred yards away, started feeding again. I lit off 5 quick shots at a bull that didn't have his butt facing me. Hit him 2nd and 4th shot. If I can kill a bou at 600 yards with that little 6.8; why the need for 300's? I figure I'd prefer that 338 lapua or 50 for long range. And I know I could kill a moose with that 6.8 within 300 yards.

34 posted on 10/09/2010 1:03:11 AM PDT by Eska
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Eska
...why the need for 300's?

In case you run into a Bear. ;^)

35 posted on 10/09/2010 1:17:50 AM PDT by TigersEye (Defend liberty. Destroy socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

$7800 per rifle???? For a “conversion”?????

Damn, but you can buy military-grade .300 Win rifles and scopes “off the shelf” all day long for $3000 a whack.

More ways to waste money, I see.


36 posted on 10/09/2010 2:26:35 AM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chaosagent
conversion will take five years and will cost about $7,800 per rifle

WAAAY too much money.

37 posted on 10/09/2010 3:12:35 AM PDT by HospiceNurse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: chaosagent

Probably because the “factory” components are brought into spec by Army armorers. They get “tweaked” before they are handed off to a sniper.

Like the saying, “Ain’t nothing ‘stock’ about a Stock Car.”

Does make you scratch your head, doesn’t it?


38 posted on 10/09/2010 3:45:33 AM PDT by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: All

is Winchester a Union shop?


39 posted on 10/09/2010 4:48:10 AM PDT by SF_Redux
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
The original M24

The M24 Sniper Weapon System (SWS) is the military and police version of the Remington 700 rifle, M24 being the model name assigned by the United States Army after adoption as their standard sniper rifle in 1988. It is also used by the Israeli Defence Forces. The M24 is referred to as a "weapons system" because it consists of not only a rifle, but also a detachable telescopic sight and other accessories.

The M24 was designed to use the "long-action" version of the Remington M700 BDL. This was chosen because the designers originally wished to use the powerful but militarily obsolete .30-06 Springfield (7.62x63mm) cartridge, as it was still in procurement channels. This was later replaced with the shorter 7.62x51mm NATO-standard cartridge. The action in the original model reportedly caused feeding problems if the 7.62mm ammunition wasn't seated firmly towards the back of the internal magazine.

It originally came tapped for the Leupold Ultra M3 10x40mm fixed-power scope, which came with a circle-shaped etched-glass reticle. This was later replaced in 1998 by the cheaper Leupold Mk.4 LR/T M3 10x40mm front-focal fixed-power scope with a mil-dot reticle. N.B.: The first number is the scope's magnification (10) and the second number in millimeters (40mm) is the diameter of the objective lens. A fixed power scope has only one magnification (e.g., 10x) and a variable power scope can be adjusted to focus between a range of magnifications (e.g., 3-9x is adjustable from a minimum power of 3x to a maximum power of 9x).

It comes with a detachable Harris 6-9" BRM-S swivel bipod unit.

The M24 SWS is to be replaced with the M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System, a contract awarded to Knight's Armament Company. However, the Army still continued to acquire M24s from Remington until February 2010.

Specifications:

Weight 5.4 kg (11.88 lbs) empty, w/. sling, without scope (M24) 7.3 kg (16 lbs) max weight with day optical sight, sling swivels, carrying strap, fully loaded magazine5.6 kg (12.32 lbs) empty, w/. sling, without scope (M24A3).

Length 1,092 mm (43 in) (M24A1, M24A2); (46.5 in) (M24A3)

Barrel length 660.4 mm (24 in)(M24A1, M24A2) (29 in) (M24A3)

Cartridge 7.62x51mm NATO (M24A2); .300 Winchester Magnum (M24A1); .338 Lapua Magnum (M24A3)

Action - Bolt-action

Rate of fire @20 rpm

Muzzle velocity 2,580 ft/s (790 m/s) w/M118LR Sniper load (175 gr.)

Effective range up to 800 metres (875 yd)

Feed system 5-round internal magazine (M24A1),

10-round detachable box magazine (M24A2),

5-round detachable box magazine (M24A3)

Sights Telescopic; detachable backup iron sights.

---------------------------------------------------

This "new" model looks like a gimmicked system. It has far too many moveable pieces which could easily break in the field.

40 posted on 10/09/2010 4:48:31 AM PDT by Sarajevo (You're jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chaosagent

“How is replacing the receiver, barrel, stock, and scope a “conversion”?

You pretty much have a brand new rifle at that point.”

What a laugh, exactly. Just order up a bunch of new Win Mags and sell the old M24s through the CMP (so I can get my grubby hands on one).


41 posted on 10/09/2010 5:15:08 AM PDT by CapnJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MasterGunner01
Up grading a 7.62x51 base rifle to 300WM with out a lot of fuss. What a joke If the action was long enough Minimum it would take is a new bolt,new barrel or re-chamber,new magazine parts, that would be only if the mag well was big enough to handle the much bigger 300WM casing. Other wise one would need a new stock also.

Would be cheaper just to build a whole new rifle. The time spend paying some one to convert would more then pay for the action. Even more so when your are the goverment and don't have to worry about all the firearm Regulations that we mere mortals have to deal with.

I guess it depends on what a lot of fuss means.

42 posted on 10/09/2010 5:34:04 AM PDT by riverrunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

Shoulda’ went to 7mm STW....


43 posted on 10/09/2010 6:12:55 AM PDT by sbark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
Something wrong with this story. All sniper rifles currently have rounds loaded specifically for that rifle by hand. Just saw this on Top Sniper. They also said they are moving to 338 Lapua. Is it possible this is the new squad marksman weapon - not the sniper weapon?
44 posted on 10/09/2010 6:19:35 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
This (7.62x67) is a more powerful round than the NATO 7.62x51

I sorta assumed that from the extra 5/8" of powder space.

45 posted on 10/09/2010 10:49:12 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier-Daddy
How much is a brand new rifle? It isn’t $8,000>

It is if you're selling rifles and you hear the customer pays $1,000 for toilet seats! Seriously, selling to the government incurs A LOT of overhead.

I used to have a friend that had a company making trusses for buildings. He did a couple jobs making trusses for medical facilities (for which a state department served as the plan checkers) and priced them like he would the same trusses for any other building. Nothing special about them technically, but the paperwork and engineering review he had to endure made it unfeasible for him to even take the jobs. So another one comes along, he bids it at triple the price (a polite way of saying no-bid) and he gets the job anyway! Anytime government gets involved in anything, it gets more expensive.

46 posted on 10/09/2010 10:57:47 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: zeestephen
You're welcome.

Night vision? Yes. defenseindustrydaily.com

XM110SASS SemiAutomaticSniperSystem

SR-25

Australian troops with the SR-25. Mk11 Mod 0. militaryphotos.net

Google/SR-25+sniper+rifle

Google/XM110SASS+sniper+rifle

You're very welcome. I really enjoy looking at and learning more about certain guns. Dave.

47 posted on 10/09/2010 12:14:25 PM PDT by Daaave ( "Reach out and take it Reach out and ta-ta take it. ")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
Cheytac Intervention... .408 Cal. 30lbs though- might not be as handy as the M24. But if we needed to save money, needed a lighter gun, one of these might do- they hit pretty hard at long range:
48 posted on 10/10/2010 12:16:44 PM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

Looks like all kinds of places to get caught and hung up on stuff. Too many holes, knobs, and sharp edges. Only good for extreme long range, not close range crawls.


49 posted on 10/10/2010 7:39:34 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: NVDave

I don’t think the military cares what the BATF thinks.


50 posted on 10/10/2010 7:40:59 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson