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1970 tape recording of Kent State shootings reveals sound of pistol shots
Washington Post ^ | 10/08/10 | AP

Posted on 10/09/2010 2:36:35 PM PDT by DFG

CLEVELAND - A tape recording of the 1970 shooting deaths of four Kent State University students by Ohio National Guardsmen reveals the sound of pistol shots 70 seconds earlier, a newspaper reported Friday citing the work of a forensic audio expert.

The finding lends support to a theory that the guardsmen thought they were being shot at during a campus Vietnam War protest. Witnesses said at the time that an FBI informant monitoring the protest fired warning shots because he felt threatened.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: canfora; kent; norman; wkyc
The Kent State incident was clearly the fault of the student protesters and not the National Guardsmen.
1 posted on 10/09/2010 2:36:41 PM PDT by DFG
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To: DFG

It is not like they will ever correct the history taught and written about.


2 posted on 10/09/2010 2:39:43 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: DFG

Tin soldiers and Nixon’s comin’


3 posted on 10/09/2010 2:42:09 PM PDT by RJR_fan (Christians need to reclaim and excel in the genre of science fiction.)
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To: DFG

Did you read the article. I’m not sure anything is clear, but it seems like there is some evidence a photographer working for the FBI fired the shots. Not that I’m fans of the protesters, but if this agent of the FBI fired the shots, it wasn’t the fault of them.


4 posted on 10/09/2010 2:43:40 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: RJR_fan

All Kent State proved is that the Ohio National Guard needed more time at the rifle range.


5 posted on 10/09/2010 2:43:55 PM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: DFG

Your right on with that statement...and it took shooting some of those students to put an end to the college riots...If they could get hurt, it wasn’t such a good idea to burn building and trash other buildings....or throw blood all over everything......


6 posted on 10/09/2010 2:44:08 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: DFG
Many believe the events contributed to the change in the public's attitude toward the war, which ended five years later.

I guess it was one of those slow moving changes.
7 posted on 10/09/2010 2:45:13 PM PDT by Krankor
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To: GeronL
The four shots from a .38 have been an open secret ever since the event. The NG commander on the scene reported them in the investigation. They were reported in the media at the time but sank from the official story. One wonders what difference it will make now that they have been credibly verified.
8 posted on 10/09/2010 2:45:18 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard

Likely the Leftstream media will make this a one-time story and then not change their narrative


9 posted on 10/09/2010 2:47:20 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: goat granny

Two of the four students killed had nothing to do with the protests and were walking to class.


10 posted on 10/09/2010 2:47:53 PM PDT by Borges
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To: DFG

That is a point in history that I don’t even like to think about.
There was plenty of blame to go around on that terrible day.
Even “if” there were earlier gunshots,
that does not justify indiscriminate shooting into a crowd of students.


11 posted on 10/09/2010 2:49:04 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: nickcarraway; DFG
Did you read the article.

You are reading WaPo propaganda. Try this.

New light shed on Kent State killings--Shots fired at Guard, declassified files indicate

Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired

12 posted on 10/09/2010 2:51:07 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: Borges
Two of the four students killed had nothing to do with the protests and were walking to class.

Unfortunately, that's what happens when you have riots and political terrorism. It's not always the guilty who get killed if the police (or national guard) feel obliged to open fire.

Equally bad things happen if you DON'T open fire, like the innocent Jewish bystander who was killed in the Brooklyn riots because a black mayor didn't allow the police to take action against black rioters.

13 posted on 10/09/2010 2:56:19 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: nickcarraway

It IS the students’ fault 100%. What the hell were they doing there in the first place? Seems to me their mommies and daddies sent them to college to GO TO CLASSES and not to start disputes with men with GUNS. How stupid do you have to be to either throw rocks or make gun shot noises or shoot guns at an army of TRAINED soldiers? How STUPID? These dirty unwashed spoiled brat hippies are the VERY SAME turds who are running our government today and ruining our lives. More of them could have gone down and I still wouldn’t shed a single tear over any one of them.


14 posted on 10/09/2010 3:01:04 PM PDT by An American In Dairyland (Green is the new RED)
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To: nickcarraway
Not that I’m fans of the protesters, but if this agent of the FBI fired the shots, it wasn’t the fault of them.

Yes,that could be true.But it also suggests (in not proves) that it wasn't the Guard's fault either.

15 posted on 10/09/2010 3:02:19 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (''I don't regret setting bombs,I feel we didn't do enough.'' ->Bill Ayers,Hussein's mentor,9/11/01)
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To: Borges
Two of the four students killed had nothing to do with the protests and were walking to class.

Not all of the four were even Kent State students.

I was at Ohio State at the time. If you wanted to stay well clear of potential trouble, it was straightforward enough. They didn't get out of bed until noon, so you could go anywhere until noon. They raised hell with the NG en masse; individual NG checking IDs of anyone being cooperative were polite and no trouble at all to deal with.

I didn't miss a class. I was never late for a class.
16 posted on 10/09/2010 3:03:41 PM PDT by Nepeta
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To: nickcarraway
Not that I’m fans of the protesters, but if this agent of the FBI fired the shots, it wasn’t the fault of them.

Yes,that could be true.But it also suggests (in not proves) that it wasn't the Guard's fault either.

17 posted on 10/09/2010 3:04:47 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (''I don't regret setting bombs,I feel we didn't do enough.'' ->Bill Ayers,Hussein's mentor,9/11/01)
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To: DJ MacWoW

I have no doubt that the riots were planned ala Chicago anf the planners were thrilled with the outcome. I wouldn’t say that exactly what happened is clear. I can only assume that the FBI hid this exculpatory evidence for a reason. I’m not sure, but perhaps to cover up the fact that they had this idiot photographer running around with a .38, and he may have contributed to the situation. Who knows, maybe he thought he would win the Pulitzer if he could get them firing on the crowd. At that time, the FBI was often using shaky assets like that.


18 posted on 10/09/2010 3:06:39 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Borges
“Two of the four students killed had nothing to do with the protests and were walking to class.”

The saddest fact of the entire event - and one that neither side ever makes much mention of.

Whether the gurardsmen felt threatend or not, whether somebody fired shots or not - there were apparently a bunch of armed people in United States uniforms that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!

19 posted on 10/09/2010 3:09:24 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: nickcarraway; DFG

The media portrayed the Kent State incident as a one day peaceful protest against the Vietnam War, where the cops fired at students for no reason.

What they avoided mentioning to the public was that the ‘students’ (mostly communist supported anarchists) were setting cars on fire, setting off bombs, and had already killed one police officer, in the lead-up to the day of the shootings.


20 posted on 10/09/2010 3:14:23 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: DFG

I always felt that way. Even back then the news was biased.


21 posted on 10/09/2010 3:14:33 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: nickcarraway

I always blamed the Weather Underground, i.e. Bill Ayers.


22 posted on 10/09/2010 3:15:37 PM PDT by Jenny217
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To: I cannot think of a name

lol

yep, that’s the tragedy alright. I agree.


23 posted on 10/09/2010 3:18:25 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: DFG
The Kent State incident was clearly the fault of the student protesters and not the National Guardsmen.

Actually, it wasn't the fault of students nor the National Guard.

It was the anarchists, people like Bill Ayers, who turned the PROTEST into a RIOT. People who get their jollies watching other people DIE.

24 posted on 10/09/2010 3:19:06 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; ...

Thanks DFG.


25 posted on 10/09/2010 3:24:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: UCANSEE2

“It was the anarchists, people like Bill Ayers, who turned the PROTEST into a RIOT. People who get their jollies watching other people DIE. “

Useful idiots.


26 posted on 10/09/2010 3:26:41 PM PDT by mirkwood (Paul LePage for governor)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired

The students were swept up in the Peace Movement, and that brought on the concept of a Protest against the War.

The anarchists and communists saw this as a means to an end, and did the meticulous planning to turn the PROTEST into a RIOT.

Those same type of people (anarchists and communists) tried to do the same thing recently at a protest against the sentencing of a black man, in Oakland, CA (IIRC). The police chief was aware the anarchists were there, and of their tactics, and ordered his men not to get suckered into shooting protestors.

27 posted on 10/09/2010 3:27:26 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: mirkwood
Useful idiots.

I'm thinking USELESS idiots.

28 posted on 10/09/2010 3:30:08 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Gay State Conservative
I did riot control training as a Training NCO at the time. There were probably as many draft dodgers in the NG as there were among the protesters.

The NG demonstrated a failure of command and control from the officers up and down the chain of command, it was a mob rather than a disciplined force.

29 posted on 10/09/2010 3:32:33 PM PDT by Little Bill (Harry Browne is a Poofter.)
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To: nickcarraway

Well the kid wasn’t an agent. He was a student. Who knows what he was thinking. Or even whose side he really was on. It’s rather dramatic that they call him an “informant and agent-provocateur”.


30 posted on 10/09/2010 3:38:07 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Well, they call him that, because the FBI was using people like at the time. And some of them probably were on the other side. It wouldn’t be the first time such an operation blew up in their faces. If the FBI is going to use a civilian asset, they better be damn sure they’ve vetted and prepared things properly. The planners of these riots may be bad guys, but it doesn’t help if the FBI is, even unintentionally, assisting them.


31 posted on 10/09/2010 3:43:00 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: UCANSEE2
You're right. This kind of activity was listed by Communists on a "to do" list.

The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

32 posted on 10/09/2010 3:44:20 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: nickcarraway

I think it was hard to tell who was friend or foe. It probably still is.


33 posted on 10/09/2010 3:46:05 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: Gay State Conservative
The night before -- the "protesters" burned down the ROTC building -- -- and chanted (to the guardsmen) "We're going to kill you."
34 posted on 10/09/2010 3:55:09 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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To: hinckley buzzard
"...now that they have been credibly verified."

That's now that they've been allegedly verified.

Maybe this guy's on to something, and maybe he isn't. I know that just listening to the recording once I already spotted some trouble with his conclusion.

35 posted on 10/09/2010 3:58:03 PM PDT by mlo
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To: BenLurkin

I recall the ROTC Building but I didn’t know about the chant.The combination of the arson and that chant would have made a reasonable Guardsman fearful and,perhaps,a bit jumpy.And that goes for Officer *and* Enlisted.


36 posted on 10/09/2010 4:05:05 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (''I don't regret setting bombs,I feel we didn't do enough.'' ->Bill Ayers,Hussein's mentor,9/11/01)
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To: Krankor

It took Nixon to stop it.


37 posted on 10/09/2010 4:10:55 PM PDT by bannie (Gone to seed.)
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To: Jenny217

“I always blamed the Weather Underground,”
***********

and the SDS.

http://speccoll.library.kent.edu/4may70/box107/107f9p1.html


38 posted on 10/09/2010 4:16:31 PM PDT by Canedawg (Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools that have not wit enough to be honest.)
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To: An American In Dairyland

I guess we can’t count on you when the time comes.


39 posted on 10/09/2010 4:19:24 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: RJR_fan

I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down

There’s battle lines being drawn
Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind


40 posted on 10/09/2010 4:19:58 PM PDT by OwenKellogg (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Was living in Cleveland at the time. Was surprised at how the footage of the final stage of the riots which was shown on the local stations that night was edited on the CBS Evening News. The national feed left a completely different impression of what transpired. It was an early confirmation of just how anti-American CBS News was at the time.

Was with a group of friends earlier that afternoon when word spread of the shootings. Our reaction was “It's about time!” Still feel that way about it.

41 posted on 10/09/2010 4:20:55 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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To: BenLurkin
Thank you for those important facts.

We should know that the Guard did not just show up on campus because a few students might make a few "anti-war" signs and statements.

There was real trouble in Kent, the city as well as the campus, as you documented.

Days of trouble (which included street violence if I remember correctly) in the community forced Governor Rhodes to respond to urgent requests and send help for the city police and the university.

42 posted on 10/09/2010 5:15:07 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: An American In Dairyland

Just a hint...go and read up on how the National Guard got to the local area in the first place...which has nothing to do with the university or the on-campus riot business (at least to start with). You might be amused how one thing escalates to another, and another...and you finally end up with dopey students on a campus with Guardsmen.


43 posted on 10/09/2010 5:17:32 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: hinckley buzzard
" One wonders what difference it will make now that they have been credibly verified."

It matters, it would seem, about as much as an ineligible black man who contrived his way into the presidency of the United States of America.

44 posted on 10/09/2010 5:52:22 PM PDT by scottiemom ("As a Texas public school teacher, I would highly recommend private school")
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To: UCANSEE2

I lived near Kent State shortly after the shootings, and everybody around there always claimed that the “students” had shot first.

There was a serious town/gown conflict there, because Kent State was in a rural area but most of the students were well off kids from Cleveland. Their parents were wealthy or at least extremely comfortable, but they had their kids declare themselves emancipated minors so they could attend a state school for nearly free. Essentially, most of the students were paying nothing, despite the fact that they were very well off, and they had the leisure to go out and demonstrate against the military, burn US flags, etc. Like all the wealthy, they were extremely left wing.

I don’t think the anarchists and communists had necessarily planned this; it was simmply the fact that they had a ton of privileged idiots out there that enabled them to feel so confident.


45 posted on 10/09/2010 5:56:03 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius

My cousin went to Kent State at the time and he said that the students are causing trouble...but


46 posted on 10/09/2010 6:28:23 PM PDT by gman992
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To: goat granny

You said what I’ve been thinking for years. Those campus riots abruptly stopped after Kent State.


47 posted on 10/09/2010 6:30:23 PM PDT by TheOldLady (Pablo is very wily.)
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To: RJR_fan

Should’a been done long ago...

And it was.


48 posted on 10/09/2010 6:49:05 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.8)
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To: BenLurkin

And Kent state was just the last in a long line of campus riots, bombing and burning...I was raising my family through those times and thought more than once that this country will not survive what was going on...and police and NG were for the most part sitting ducks with orders not to stop the riots or shoot back...the inner citys across the country were also burning, looting and rioting along with a couple of radical catholic priests that went after recruiters for the military.....


49 posted on 10/10/2010 9:06:41 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: nickcarraway
I wouldn’t say that exactly what happened is clear. I can only assume that the FBI hid this exculpatory evidence for a reason. I’m not sure, but perhaps to cover up the fact that they had this idiot photographer running around with a .38, and he may have contributed to the situation.

Kent State, Ruby Ridge... the FBI has quite the string of screw-ups (to take a charitable interpretation) and cover-ups to its name....

50 posted on 10/12/2010 1:17:57 PM PDT by Sakity Yaks
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