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The mixed legacy of 1492 (European viruses wipe out population)
Boston.com ^ | 10/11/10 | James Carroll

Posted on 10/11/2010 3:55:41 PM PDT by Libloather

The mixed legacy of 1492
By James Carroll
October 11, 2010

IT IS commonly observed that 1492, in addition to being the year of Christopher Columbus, was also the year of the Jews — their expulsion from Spain by the same Ferdinand and Isabella who sponsored the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria. But the overlap of events (actually, Columbus set sail in the very week of the banishment) has historic significance, for it was in Iberia that ancient Christian anti-Judaism had recently morphed into genetic anti-Semitism — the idea that Jews are contemptible not because of their religion, but because of their “blood impurity.’’ This notion of a group’s innate biological inferiority tragically gripped the European imagination just as the encounter with the New World occurred. It was a decisive factor in the creation of modern racism that determined so much of what came in the wake of Christopher Columbus. Contempt for Jews was practice for contempt for aboriginal peoples.

The racist myth of European superiority still shapes the story of the colonial conquest — starting with how the Caribs, Mayans, and Aztecs are remembered as never having had a chance against Spanish steel and gun powder. But it wasn’t technological genius that led to the dominance of the newcomers, nor was it their courageous soldiering, intellectual heritage, or moral superiority — much less the favor of God.

By far, the most decisive factor in the quick establishment of European control was the accident of disease. The immune systems of Western Hemisphere indigenous peoples were overwhelmed by pathogens that accompanied the Europeans, with the result that populations of so-called Amerindians were almost instantly decimated. The population of Mexico, to take one example, fell from 25 million in 1517, when Europeans first came there, to 1.5 million a century later.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1492; 2effenbad; ageofsail; columbus; columbusday; godsgravesglyphs; legacy
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Guns were an advantage for sure, but viruses made the difference.

Happy Columbus Day!

1 posted on 10/11/2010 3:55:46 PM PDT by Libloather
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To: Libloather

Too bad those viruses don’t work on Muslims


2 posted on 10/11/2010 3:57:46 PM PDT by Tribemike1
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To: Libloather

Up to 50% of the white population was wiped out by disease from the Asians, diseases are something that is tough to whip, they still kill millions of people every year.


3 posted on 10/11/2010 3:59:53 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Libloather
Courtesy of Katie Couric.
4 posted on 10/11/2010 4:00:43 PM PDT by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: Libloather

Well, speaking of diseases, the Indians pretty certainly gave Columbus’s crew syphilis in return. Because it appeared in Europe for the first time just about then.


5 posted on 10/11/2010 4:01:47 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: Libloather

Well, just to play devil’s advocate, how can they say that microbes were not part of God’s plan? But seriously, why didn’t the people already here have some microbe they gave to Europeans? Has anyone ever wondered about that? Why is it always the invaders who seem to have the stronger immune systems?


6 posted on 10/11/2010 4:02:55 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Libloather

I watched a show the other day that seems to indicate pretty strongly that the Japanese visited south America. Pottery that is identical to ancient pottery found in southern Japan and one small area of south America.

The strongest evidence are the very Asian features existing among natives today and a genetic disease found only among Japanese and a small isolated population in south America.

Polynesian skulls are found all around the pacific rim and they obviously made it to Hawaii and Easter Island.

I tend to think there was a lot more “traffic” in the ancient past but civilization didn’t come (and stay) till Columbus


7 posted on 10/11/2010 4:03:42 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Libloather
The racist myth of European superiority still shapes the story of the colonial conquest — starting with how the Caribs, Mayans, and Aztecs are remembered as never having had a chance against Spanish steel and gun powder.

Many Indians did die from disease, but still the Europeans fought and defeated armies of many time their number due to the superiority of their weapons and their horses, and both the men and horses were usually armored.

8 posted on 10/11/2010 4:04:38 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Libloather

Dem evil white dudes.


9 posted on 10/11/2010 4:04:56 PM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: Libloather

It went both ways. Contrary to what left wing “experts” say, there was little or no syphilis in Europe before it was brought back from the New World.


10 posted on 10/11/2010 4:05:09 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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To: Libloather

Same as it ever was. Get over it, already.


11 posted on 10/11/2010 4:06:47 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Libloather
The Indians got even. They gave the Old World syphilis. This Carroll guy is a long time iconoclast who makes his living by trashing the world of Cristendom. Blamed the Church from antiquity for the Holocaust. Maybe related to his being a disaffected former priest, apparently with a beef against the Church he once pledged to serve. Not a very credible writer.
12 posted on 10/11/2010 4:08:17 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Libloather

How did they arrive at an estimate of 25 million and how accurate is the methodology.

Oh right, it’s just a wild ass guess.


13 posted on 10/11/2010 4:08:50 PM PDT by Valpal1 ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.")
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To: brytlea

Syphilis.


14 posted on 10/11/2010 4:09:21 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (I write books, love my wife, serve my nation, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: ansel12

while I support using antibiotics and the like to augment our immune systems we’ve grown far too dependent on them. Kids and people used to get dirty and sick on occasion and build up immunity. Now people santize the immune system right out of themselves. By not being exposed to anything if your bodies hit with the right virus or disease it has no defense.

Unless we can develop better medicines thats where the new plagues are going to come from.


15 posted on 10/11/2010 4:10:18 PM PDT by utherdoul
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To: Libloather
This was about 150 years after the Black Death when half of Europe died. I guess those evil white Europeans were so evil they unleashed biological warfare on themselves even.
16 posted on 10/11/2010 4:11:35 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: cripplecreek

It was much cooler I think in those days and the seas were much calmer than now. That would explain crossng an ocean in a catamaran


17 posted on 10/11/2010 4:11:36 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: ansel12
Syphilis mutated in Europeans from a South American bacteria.

The mutation is thought to have occurred because of the European life style versus the South American life style.

That is, heavy, rarely washed clothes versus rarely clothed natives prancing around the "rain forests".

The original bacterial infection sores, covered by clothes, and not exposed to UV, O2, etc, eventually mutated in to "syphilis".

It wasn't until earlier this decade that the last known infections of the original bacteria were wiped out in the Western Hemisphere.

18 posted on 10/11/2010 4:12:46 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Libloather

“it was in Iberia that ancient Christian anti-Judaism had recently morphed into genetic anti-Semitism — the idea that Jews are contemptible not because of their religion, but because of their “blood impurity.’’ This notion of a group’s innate biological inferiority tragically gripped the European imagination just as the encounter with the New World occurred. It was a decisive factor in the creation of modern racism that determined so much of what came in the wake of Christopher Columbus. Contempt for Jews was practice for contempt for aboriginal peoples.”

This is why historians suck at thinking. There always have to be connections. A drop of rain water hitting a Chinese emperor in 908 AD has striking reverberations in the Sudan in 2007, or whatever. Which has the advantage of both seeming to uncover something unrecognized before and appealing to the wild paranoia that runs through everyone’s head on a moment to moment basis. (Hey, what do I mean by THAT?)

There’s also got to be a “first,” right? Have to have our turning points. Some distinct moment when regular racism became really, really bad racism. And why not just when Europeans happened to commence permanent contact with the New World. ‘Cause imperialism is bad, colonialism is bad, and really, really wrong racism was behind all the badness (though diseases actually don’t care what sort of “blood” they’re infecting). Nevermind that everyone and their mother hurt the Jews. Europeans must have had a special hatred for them, ‘cause they’re Europeans. And Europeans are bad, ‘cause of the colonialism and imperialism. Which was caused by the racism. Which wasn’t like other people’s racism. ‘Cause of Colombus or the Jews or something. Can’t remember which.


19 posted on 10/11/2010 4:13:26 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Libloather
By far, the most decisive factor in the quick establishment of European control was the accident of disease. The immune systems of Western Hemisphere indigenous peoples were overwhelmed by pathogens that accompanied the Europeans, with the result that populations of so-called Amerindians were almost instantly decimated.

The dominant hypothesis is that Amerindian extirpation of 35 of 44 Pleistocene megafauna species rendered their immune systems unaccustomed to zoonotic diseases.

To which I would add that hunting the domesticable animals into oblivion seriously retarded agro-urban development and condemned many tribes to permanent seasonal nomadism.

20 posted on 10/11/2010 4:13:26 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The fourth estate IS the fifth column.)
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To: Libloather

Sadly it was completely unavoidable.


21 posted on 10/11/2010 4:14:18 PM PDT by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
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To: GAB-1955

You’re right, I had forgotten about that. It has been the gift that keeps on giving.


22 posted on 10/11/2010 4:15:22 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Cicero

And it was about 500 years before docs developed antibiotics to get rid of the stuff......pretty good pay back.


23 posted on 10/11/2010 4:16:09 PM PDT by svcw (Just in case you ever wondered: As of May 2010, it costs ~ $0.0167 US Dollars to mint a penny.)
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To: Carry_Okie

“To which I would add that hunting the domesticable animals into oblivion seriously retarded agro-urban development and condemned many tribes to permanent seasonal nomadism.”

Yes. But bear in mind that New World beasts and “native” Americans were not coeval. Humans came over here fully prepared to hunt everything to death. The animals had not enough time to evolve defenses. Back in the Old World, there was time to breed (though not deliberately, of course) animals to our liking over the course of millenia.


24 posted on 10/11/2010 4:16:24 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Libloather

By the time the Spanish came west, they had already been under muslim rule for hundreds of years. I hypothesize that muslim germs and dna invaded the the natives, and thus, they became ill, stupid, and ruthless.

So perhaps the mexicans invading our country have this muslim dna.

Maybe the conquistadors were actually muslims, and just pretended to be catholic, so they could point the finger and say look how ruthless Christians are.


25 posted on 10/11/2010 4:16:42 PM PDT by paintriot
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To: cripplecreek

Go on Amazon and buy all of Barry Fell’s books.

Chris was just a johnny-come-lately.


26 posted on 10/11/2010 4:16:53 PM PDT by Salamander (I can't sleep......the clowns will eat me.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Let’s get this straight and clear: the “native Americans” were cultural losers who got thrown out of Asia because they were some combination of losers, , antisocial, inadequate, socially caustic or retarded. Indians were (are) freaks.


27 posted on 10/11/2010 4:17:07 PM PDT by hal ogen (1st amendment or reeducation camp?)
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To: Libloather

So we should feel guilty? We who were not even alive then?

Should we just therefore open our Southern Border to the descendents of those very peoples, as historic justice?

If you think so you are the same as Obama. A fascist with historic justice as his calling card, the calling card of every fascist in modern history, including Hitler and Mussolini.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html


28 posted on 10/11/2010 4:17:25 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama . fascist info..http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: Will88

Many folks don’t know that many mesoamerican groups fought WITH the Spaniards because groups like the Aztecs were not this peace-loving people, but were conquers themselves, and treated those people like 4th class citizens.


29 posted on 10/11/2010 4:18:00 PM PDT by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
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To: Libloather

This James Carroll character really is the epitome of the guilt-ridden, self-loathing white liberal. And he doesn’t mind throwing around a lot of historical inaccuracies while wallowing in his white guilt.


30 posted on 10/11/2010 4:18:52 PM PDT by Will88
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To: BenLurkin
Contrary to what left wing “experts” say, there was little or no syphilis in Europe before it was brought back from the New World.

Maybe they picked it up from Mermaids on their trip home.

31 posted on 10/11/2010 4:19:49 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: GeronL

Polynesians may not have had a lot of technology but they knew the sea. I’ve seen photos of maps they made out of reeds and grass that show detailed wave and wind patterns as well as islands.

As I understand it, people with expert knowledge of the sea can tell if they’re approaching an unseen island by the behavior of swells.


32 posted on 10/11/2010 4:21:28 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Calvin Locke

Thanks for the history. Very interesting.


33 posted on 10/11/2010 4:23:08 PM PDT by unkus
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To: Libloather
“Well into the 19th century, the vast majority of transatlantic migrants (more than 80 percent up to 1820) came from Africa — labor to replace the disease-defeated Amerindians.”

I would hesitate to call slaves that were involuntarily relocated from their old masters in Africa to their new masters in the new world as “migrants”. Perhaps others can tell me if it is true, but weren't most of those “migrants” used to replace slave labor that died in the plantations of Brazil and the Caribbean?

34 posted on 10/11/2010 4:24:00 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: utherdoul
I thought I was the only one thinking that way. I'd rather fight it off and acquire a natural immunity that take an immunization that is a somewhat unknown quantity. Did that with H1N1, which I caught from my son-in-law, who had a confirmed diagnosis from his doctor.
35 posted on 10/11/2010 4:25:21 PM PDT by ArmyTeach (Vincit qui se vincit)
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To: hinckley buzzard

He’s a bitter liberal with an axe to grind, that’s for sure.


36 posted on 10/11/2010 4:25:40 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Libloather

Amazing how much work she puts into avoiding the conclusion that Europeans were cultually and genetically superior.

Heck, a darwinian should be eager to embrace the superior genetics of the Europeans. It was gained at the cost of millions of lives lost to diseases.


37 posted on 10/11/2010 4:25:49 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

Let’s not judge his crews too harshly for demeaning themselves with the female savages. They had been at sea a long time. Who knows? Maybe they fell in love.


38 posted on 10/11/2010 4:25:59 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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To: Will88

“Many Indians did die from disease, but still the Europeans fought and defeated armies of many time their number due to the superiority of their weapons and their horses, and both the men and horses were usually armored.”

Not to mention the fact that the Europeans even got over there in the first place. A fact that seems these days to be overlooked, given the controversy over what it means to say the Americas were “discovered” in 1492. A controversy which obscures the fact that, no matter what killed the natives and no matter whether or not the Europeans fared well in battle, the only reason any of it happened is that the Europeans did what New Worlders never did: they navigated the Atlantic.


39 posted on 10/11/2010 4:26:20 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: VanDeKoik
Many folks don’t know that many mesoamerican groups fought WITH the Spaniards because groups like the Aztecs were not this peace-loving people, but were conquers themselves, and treated those people like 4th class citizens.

That's true, and Cortez found many allies against Montezuma and the Aztecs among the surrounding tribes who were tired of supplying thousands of their members for the Aztecs' periodic human sacrifices. I've read that 10,000 were sacrificed to celebrate Montezuma's ascension to power.

40 posted on 10/11/2010 4:26:26 PM PDT by Will88
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To: brytlea
Why is it always the invaders who seem to have the stronger immune systems?

Not true, see "War of the Worlds" and "Independence Day."
41 posted on 10/11/2010 4:26:47 PM PDT by kenavi (What drove BP to drill 5,000 feet down?)
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To: BenLurkin

Not doubting you, but could you save me a lot of google time and point to a source?


42 posted on 10/11/2010 4:27:06 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast ( A window seat, a jug of elderberry wine, and thou.)
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To: Libloather
The mixed legacy of 1492 (European viruses wipe out population)

But how many have they killed with tobacco?
43 posted on 10/11/2010 4:28:11 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Tribemike1
"Too bad those viruses don’t work on Muslims"

Yes, and you'd think that with their custom of "wiping" with the left hand and eating with the right, they'd have very little immunity. Or might it be that they get confused about right and left from time to time.

44 posted on 10/11/2010 4:28:40 PM PDT by davisfh
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To: Salamander

The voyage of Saint Brendan sometime around 525 BC is looked at as a legend with a possible basis in fact. Some believe the “isle of the blessed” may be the Americas.


45 posted on 10/11/2010 4:29:20 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: marktwain

“the vast majority of transatlantic migrants (more than 80 percent up to 1820) came from Africa — labor to replace the disease-defeated Amerindians”

It’s moreso the fact that a lot of the native americans were less like the settled Aztecs and more like hunter-gatherers. Governments conquer and regularize kleptocracy over agrarian and later city-dwelling peoples, not mobile peoples. You can’t make slaves out of people that can run for the hills.


46 posted on 10/11/2010 4:32:36 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Libloather

Sure, we gave them smallpox, but they gave us syphillis, so I’d say we’re about even.

Now the gay African monkeyphile that gave us AIDS still has some explaining to do...


47 posted on 10/11/2010 4:32:36 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Valpal1
"How did they arrive at an estimate of 25 million and how accurate is the methodology."

Same process and same methodology by which they predicted "global warming"...

48 posted on 10/11/2010 4:32:50 PM PDT by Redbob (W.W.J.B.D.: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: Valpal1
How did they arrive at an estimate of 25 million and how accurate is the methodology.

Probably the same method they used to find that 100,000 (or whatever it was) Iraqis were killed in the war.

If there's anything you can count on in leftist agitprop, it's good, credible numbers.

49 posted on 10/11/2010 4:33:13 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

ABC News http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/story?id=4136401&page=1

PBS http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previous_seasons/case_syphilis/index.html

Archaeology.org(?) http://www.archaeology.org/9701/newsbriefs/syphilis.html


50 posted on 10/11/2010 4:33:25 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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