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Bishops blame Israeli-Palestinian conflict for spurring Christian exodus from Mideast
Haaretz ^ | Associated Press

Posted on 10/13/2010 9:31:23 AM PDT by citizenredstater9271

Bishops summoned to the Vatican to discuss the flight of Christians from the Middle East have blamed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for spurring much of the exodus and warned that the consequences could be devastating for the birthplace of Christianity.

Some bishops have singled out the emergence of fanatical Islam for the flight. But others have directly or indirectly accused Israel of discriminating against Arab Christians and impeding solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

In fact, the working document of the two-week synod accused the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories for creating difficulties in everyday life for Palestinian Christians, including their religious life since their access to holy sites is dependent on Israeli military permission.

Pope Benedict XVI called the two-week synod, which continued Wednesday, to try to encourage Christians in the largely Muslim region, where the Catholic Church has long been a minority and is shrinking as a result of war, conflict, discrimination and economic problems.

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Israel; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; christianity; israel; judaism; pope; popebenedict; religion; synod
Mixed feelings about this. I am a Christian and I love Jesus and all other Christians but I will say Israel belongs TO THE JEWS and ONLY the Jews. I do not think Christians should be living on lands God promised for the Jews and no one else. But I think these Christians need to be compensated for.

And leftists have hurt Jews more then Christians or muslims. Look at the words of socialism's own founders Marx and Proudhon. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2606505/posts

1 posted on 10/13/2010 9:31:33 AM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: citizenredstater9271
Its about fanatical muslims, period.

These Bishops are running the same game leftist have ran over here for decades - 'he only kills, robs and rapes because of discrimination'.

2 posted on 10/13/2010 9:38:00 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: citizenredstater9271

Call me sadly ignorant of recent Jewish history, but did God tell the Jews to return to Israel and restore his state there?


3 posted on 10/13/2010 9:59:20 AM PDT by Bayard
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To: skeeter

The Bishops have to soft-pedal it because there are a lot more Christians in Islamic countries who would be vulnerable.


4 posted on 10/13/2010 10:00:54 AM PDT by SC_Pete
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To: Bayard

Yes and that’s why I support Israel as a Jewish-only (NOT democratic two-wolves-and-one-sheep-deciding-whats-for-dinner) state. Christians have no right to Jewish land any more then the muslims do and I’m a Christian.


5 posted on 10/13/2010 10:13:56 AM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: citizenredstater9271

And Israel was the birth place of Christianity. So Christians have lived there for 2,000 years. And no, God did not tell the Jews to go back to Israel and re-establish the state HE gave them. Satan told a pedophile to form an army and drive them out.


6 posted on 10/13/2010 10:20:01 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: massgopguy

Look like it or not Israel belongs to the Jews. Christians and other have no right to live there and dictate policy any more then Mexicans have the right to move to Norway and dictate policy.


7 posted on 10/13/2010 10:34:32 AM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: citizenredstater9271

Christians live in Israel and they have the right to live in Israel if they are natural born citizens or if they are granted citizenship.

The Arab Christians living in the territories are victimized by the unrelenting Arab war against Israel. Their pain- where it occurs- is not of Israel’s doing.

That Catholic Bishops would at worst blame the Jews or at best even assign equal blame to both Muslims and Jews is not surprising considering thousands of years of history.


8 posted on 10/13/2010 10:47:17 AM PDT by HearMe
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To: HearMe

But Israel is a JEWISH state and needs to remain that way. Look at how demographics are changing in Europe and America now that those places are becoming non-homogenous. Israel is the only state facing extinction so it NEEDS to stop granting rights for non-jews and go back to its complete Jewish roots. Christians are just like the muslims. Their VERY PRESENCE decreases the Jewishness of Israel. They need to leave or convert.


9 posted on 10/13/2010 10:51:25 AM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: citizenredstater9271

Israel is a Democratic country: it doesn’t force anyone to convert.

Israeli Christians have every civil right that Jews have- and that’s the way it should be.


10 posted on 10/13/2010 11:00:28 AM PDT by HearMe
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To: citizenredstater9271

You are making the mistake in thinking that the only true Jews are those who reject Jesus as the Messiah. The Christians of Israel are not ethnically gentiles but rather the descendants of the first generation Jews, like Peter and Paul, who recognized Jesus as the promised Messiah of Judaism, i.e. they are ethnic Jews. If you are to maintain that the Holy Land is still promised only to ethnic Jews, then from a Christian prospective the Christians of Israel have as much claim to the land as their non-Christian cousins.


11 posted on 10/13/2010 12:03:28 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
So would the same count for Muslims? How many of the muslims in Israel are the desendents of the original Jews who were forced into converting?? Should they live in Israel?

We also don't know how many Christians in Israel really support Israel. I know some "Palestinian" Christian groups who are jsut as anti-israel as the Muslims are.

12 posted on 10/13/2010 12:33:50 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: HearMe

Yes and democracy means two wolves and one sheep deciding on whats for dinner. If Israel knew what was needed for its survival it would abandon mod-rule democracy and become a republic. Read Locke and Smith and build their country that way the same way America was built only incorporate Judaism.


13 posted on 10/13/2010 12:36:40 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: citizenredstater9271
Judaism and Christianity are both from the same root. Islam, on the other hand, is a rejection of the promises to patriarchs from Abraham to David. Thus, if you are to base tenure in Israel to the promises of the Old Testament, then the Muslims have apostatized and placed themselves outside of those promises. The same cannot be said of the Christians. They represent the fulfillment of those promises.

As for the Christians supporting Israel, what is your definition of that support. To support Israel must the Christians declare that those ethnic Jews who reject Jesus as the Messiah have special rights to the land that ethnic Jews who profess Jesus do not?

14 posted on 10/13/2010 1:02:30 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
Christians are not Jews. Jews reject Jesus as messiah. What is your definition of a Jew anyway? If I convert, am I a Jew? If my great-great-great-grandparents were Jewish but then converted to Christianity and since then every generation was Christian, am I a Jew? So no Christians have no right to Israel just b/c their ancestors were Jewish any more then Europeans have the right to Africa b/c their ancestors came from there many years ago.

Christians NEED to realize that OBSERVANT Jews are the ones who are the only ones w/ the right to Israel. We wouldn't want people who hate America coming into America and forcing policies on the rest of us to have their anti-American practices me given place in the gov. would we? So I believe the same should be true w/ Israel. If Christians love Israel they would realize it is a state for OBSERVANT JEWS ONLY.

15 posted on 10/13/2010 1:19:29 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: citizenredstater9271
What is your definition of a Jew anyway?

This is a question that has plagued the Jews themselves. Jewishness can comprehend both religious observance and ethnic identity. Thus we have the phenomenon of the "secular Jew". You will notice that I spoke of ethnic Jewish Christians. Your position is that only Jews have a right to the land of Israel. I suspect that you do this on the basis of the promises of the Old Testament. (If not, please correct me.) If this is so, is it your premise that those ethnic Jews who were obedient to God and accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah were by this act of faith excluded from the land of the promise? Does obedience lead to disinheritance?

Christians NEED to realize that OBSERVANT Jews are the ones who are the only ones w/ the right to Israel.

Would you then call for the secular and nonobservant Jews to leave Israel?

16 posted on 10/13/2010 2:00:19 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
Would you then call for the secular and nonobservant Jews to leave Israel?

Look I'm not in control of the Israeli gov., but Israel NEEDS to do something to preserve its Jewishness or else it will face extinction. Secular Jews hate the faith their state was founded on so no I don't think they should be considered Israeli citizens either. They should also be taking the loyalty oath along w/ the Arabs.

Either u believe in the Bible or you don't. I didnt write the Old Testament I just follow it.

And how do you know most of these Christians in Israel are really ethnic Jews and not ethnic Arabs? What if Muslims were also ethnic Jews would that make them Jewish? What makes the Jewish religion? Jews don't accept Jesus so I would never say Christians follow Judaism the way it was meant to be followed.

17 posted on 10/13/2010 3:13:48 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: citizenredstater9271
Jerusalem: Christian holy site threatened by Muslim construction

More Islamic supremacist indifference to the cherished sites of the "most vile of created beings" (Qur'an 98:6). "Garden Tomb Threatened by Muslim Construction," by Chris Mitchell for CBN News, September 4 (thanks to Miss Kelly):

JERUSALEM - More than a quarter of a million Christians visit Jerusalem's Garden Tomb every year. The holy site is believed by many to be the place where Jesus rose from the dead. But now, the sacred ground is in danger of being damaged by a Muslim construction project. Garden Tomb Director Richard Meryon showed CBN News the 15-foot wall being built above the tomb.

rest at link above.

18 posted on 10/13/2010 3:29:01 PM PDT by Yehuda (Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; ...
In fact, the working document of the two-week synod accused the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories for creating difficulties in everyday life for Palestinian Christians, including their religious life since their access to holy sites is dependent on Israeli military permission. Pope Benedict XVI called the two-week synod...
Thanks citizenredstater9271.
19 posted on 10/13/2010 4:41:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

20 posted on 10/13/2010 5:00:16 PM PDT by SJackson (In wine there is wisdom, In beer there is freedom, In water there is bacteria.)
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To: Bayard
Let me explain by parable. A ship is sinking and the passengers flee to the life boats. One of the last boats notices a survivor drifting on a piece of wood. They approach and offer him a seat on the life boat. He says "no thanks, God will save me." The next day, a Coast Guard vessel goes through the area, sees the man drifting and offers help. He says, "no thanks, God will save me." A day later, a helicopter overhead sees the man and lowers a rope. Again, he says "no thanks, God will save me." Two hours later, the man dies of dehydration. He goes to Heaven and asks God, "I was a faithful man, why didn't you save me?" God responds "who do you think sent the life boat, the Coast Guard and the helicopter?" Jews drifted on wood for 2000 years. Then we decided to get on the life boat.
21 posted on 10/13/2010 9:17:01 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: citizenredstater9271
I do not think Christians should be living on lands God promised for the Jews and no one else.

This Jew disagrees with you. There's nothing in the Bible, or in Judaism, that requires a 100% Jewish-only state in the Land of Israel. Many non-Israelites lived in ancient Israel, some having been given special protection by Joshua Ben-Nun (Joshua 6:17-25; 9:6-27).

Even if Israel was a theocratic Jewish state (it's not), Jewish law would require affording non-Jews who aren't idolaters full civil rights and equal protection. (Exodus 22:20 -- "You shall not wrong or oppress a stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt") (Leviticus 19:33-34 -- "When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.")

22 posted on 10/13/2010 9:30:54 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew

But Jews consider us Christians idolaters b/c they see Jesus as a false god.


23 posted on 10/13/2010 9:46:44 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
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To: Petrosius
The Christians of Israel are not ethnically gentiles but rather the descendants of the first generation Jews, like Peter and Paul, who recognized Jesus as the promised Messiah of Judaism, i.e. they are ethnic Jews.

This is largely a myth. There were many non-Jews in Israel during Second Temple times, including a very large Greek community, and huge Samaritan community.

Some Jews in ancient Judea certainly converted to Christianity. But the Jewish Church basically got annihilated during the revolts against Rome. Today's Israeli Arab Christian community largely descends from a combination of Greeks, Crusaders, Samaritans, and pious pilgrims throughout the centuries. Jews are likely a pretty small portion of the community's ancestry. If it makes you feel better, Samaritans are largely Israelite (though not Jewish). And those who weren't killed by the Byzantines largely converted to Christianity and, later on, Islam.

24 posted on 10/13/2010 9:47:20 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: citizenredstater9271
But Jews consider us Christians idolaters b/c they see Jesus as a false god.

Not really true. Most knowledgeable Orthodox Jews do not consider Christianity to be idolatry, though there are a few minority opinions saying otherwise. There are also some Jews that don't think Christianity is idolatry, per se, but do take serious issue with the veneration of statutes and icons in certain Christian denominations.

25 posted on 10/13/2010 10:05:40 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew

It should also be pointed out that the entire Jewish community was not immediately exiled from Judea, as apposed to Jerusalem. After the destruction of the Temple their remained a Jewish community in the countryside. This community dwindled for a number of reasons. There had already been a large and voluntary exodus of those who sought a better life in other parts of the empire. Thus there were large Jewish communities in all the major cities of the empire before the rebellion. This would continue as pressures increased after the rebellion. Of those that remained, some would convert to Christianity and others would intermarry with the non Jewish population. All of this happened before the Arab invasion. True, the Christian population was composed of non-Jewish elements as well. The honest answer is that there is no way to know what percentage of the Christian Palestinian population is Jewish but it cannot be denied that it is one element.

In the end, however, I do not think that it is important. As a Christian, I follow St. Paul who said that there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Greek. In Jesus Christ the gentile Christians have been grafted onto the root of Judaism and are joint heirs with them. I do not expect Jews to accept this but at the same time Jews should not expect Christians to believe that Jews continue to have a separate covenant with God that excludes the Christians. As long as we respect on another and treat each other with dignity that is enough.


26 posted on 10/14/2010 8:29:48 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: citizenredstater9271
The Muslims are barbaric murderes of all that is not Islam. They are all living in a long gone bygone era,but they don't realize same. The only way they'll change is if they're destroyed now and forever?!?
27 posted on 10/14/2010 9:55:59 AM PDT by zbogwan2
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To: citizenredstater9271
“n fact, the working document of the two-week synod accused the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories for creating difficulties in everyday life for Palestinian Christians, including their religious life since their access to holy sites is dependent on Israeli military permission.”

The Roman Catholic Bishops participating in this are, I am presuming, NOT naive, and therefor I find a grave moral relativism and moral hypocrisy in the particular position noted above. It is morally relativistic and hypocritical because it pretends that there are are not life threatening causes, as opposed to mere “political” intransigence, which justify the security measures that the Israelis MUST make, in their own defense.

If Israel's neighbors were merely a political opposition that was using peaceful political means, in their differences with the Israelis, the conditions the Bishops are complaining about would not be erected by the Israelis. The Bishops are not stupid. They know that to be the case. They know the foundation of the conditions they are complaining about are caused by the violence that Israel MUST protect its citizens against. Knowing that that violence is not going to disappear just because the Israelis drop their guard, while complaining about the conditions that having that guard imposes, makes the Bishops sound NOT like counselors of morals and faith but political counselors on a political agenda.

Why does the Roman Catholic Church keep allowing a voice, and sometimes a megaphone, for European antisemitism from within the ranks of its own leaders?

28 posted on 10/14/2010 2:20:02 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: citizenredstater9271

What is so bad about this policy is that it is foolish. The revolution in Iran had nothing.nada.nichts to do with the situation in the Holy Land. They only care to weaken the power of Israel since it is the only modern state in the Middle East
(yes, this includes Turkey.).


29 posted on 11/01/2010 8:55:08 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Petrosius

Well, it is does not help that they refuse to accept Christian Jews as citizens under the law of return.


30 posted on 11/01/2010 8:59:03 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Wuli

They think that if Israel would go away that the Muslims would treat them more gently. This is foolish give the plain facts of history than whenever Muslim power revives, the lot of Christians gets worse, and the growth of the Church is suppressed.


31 posted on 11/01/2010 9:02:18 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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