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New Lame Duck Threat to Bailout Union Pensions (401k threat)
Human Events ^ | 10/8/10

Posted on 10/13/2010 1:38:09 PM PDT by roses of sharon

Democrats in the Senate on Thursday held a recess hearing covering a taxpayer bailout of union pensions and a plan to seize private 401(k) plans to more "fairly" distribute taxpayer-funded pensions to everyone.

Sen. Harkin (D-Iowa), Chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee heard from hand-picked witnesses advocating the infamous "Guaranteed Retirement Account" (GRA) authored by Theresa Guilarducci.

In a nutshell, under the GRA system government would seize private 401(k) accounts, setting up an additional 5% mandatory payroll tax to dole out a "fair" pension to everyone using that confiscated money coupled with the mandated contributions.

***

“We need a comprehensive solution that addresses interrelated problems. For example, a system that places most of the burden for retirement saving on individuals will always have to wrestle with the problem of pre-retirement loans and withdrawals (simply plugging these leaks will not work, because many workers would stop contributing to the system). A system that relies on tax incentives to promote individual retirement savings will necessarily tend to favor high-income workers who can afford to save more and who benefit the most from these tax breaks. Conversely, a truly universal system would need to shield low-income workers from out-of-pocket costs or wage cuts.

***

Brett McMahon, spokesman for the Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC), a trade association, warns this hearing exposed part of a process that may come as early as the November lame duck push to bailout union pensions by attaching the bailout to an across-the-board extension of the current tax rates.

"I am deeply concerned that they will try to attach something like the Casey bill or the Casey bill in and of itself to tax cut extensions bill that is inevitably going to have to be dealt with at some point during the lame duck session,"

(Excerpt) Read more at humanevents.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 111th; 401k; bailout; bho44; bustunions; congress; democratcongress; democratcorruption; democrats; economy; elections; fail; gra; liberalfascism; obama; pensions; redistribution; socialism; spreadthewealth; stealthewealth; taxcheatparty; taxes; unioncorruption; unionpensions; unions
Heads up....hope Republicans are using these Democrat threats in their ads.
1 posted on 10/13/2010 1:38:12 PM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: roses of sharon

This county will experience a uprising like you have never seen. I have saved and invested for 30 years in my 401K. They will not steal it from me.


2 posted on 10/13/2010 1:41:56 PM PDT by ncfool (The new USSA - United Socialst States of AmeriKa. Welcome to Obummers world or Obamaville USSA.)
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To: roses of sharon

Do this and it will be a Dead Duck session.


3 posted on 10/13/2010 1:42:47 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: roses of sharon
a plan to seize private 401(k) plans

An open warning - anyone trying to "seize" my hard earned savings will be answered and dealt with - with extreme prejudice!

4 posted on 10/13/2010 1:44:40 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few and let another take his office. - Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
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To: roses of sharon

This couldn’t be constitutional.


5 posted on 10/13/2010 1:45:10 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: roses of sharon

So, not only would they steal our money from us, but they would stop the 401K system which allows for tax-delayed savings, and instead charge us another 5% tax on our total earnings without the 401K deduction. Makes demoncratic sense to me. /sarc


6 posted on 10/13/2010 1:46:58 PM PDT by DallasDeb (USAFA '06 Mom)
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To: roses of sharon

bttt


7 posted on 10/13/2010 1:47:56 PM PDT by aberaussie
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To: roses of sharon

So my 401k which has gone up and down and up and down is to be “shared” while union pensions are to be bailed out. I get it. Private citizens get screwed when their savings plans blow out.

Pensions are a ponzi scheme. END ALL GOVERNMENT PENSIONS. Taxpayers can afford them.


8 posted on 10/13/2010 1:48:09 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Ask yourself,where does Saudi Arabia fit on a scale of "passive" to "moderate" to "extremist" Islam?)
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To: roses of sharon

I know that Christine O’D will take office immediately and can vote in a lame duck, as does Byrd’s replacement. Any others that can take office immediately should be hitting this issue hard.


9 posted on 10/13/2010 1:48:46 PM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: roses of sharon

“When in the course of human events.....”

The line in the sand can;t keep moving backwards, folks.

At some point, you have to say “Enough, and NO MORE!”

If we do not peacefully take back this country on November 2nd, it will be 1860 all over again.


10 posted on 10/13/2010 1:49:36 PM PDT by exit82 (Democrats are the enemy of freedom. Sarah Palin is our Esther.)
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To: roses of sharon

Taxpayers CAN’T afford them.


11 posted on 10/13/2010 1:49:59 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Ask yourself,where does Saudi Arabia fit on a scale of "passive" to "moderate" to "extremist" Islam?)
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To: colorado tanker

“This couldn’t be constitutional.”

We’re already very close to having a SCOTUS that doesn’t care what’s constitutional.


12 posted on 10/13/2010 1:50:12 PM PDT by Spok (Hope and change WE can believe in.)
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To: ncfool

“This county will experience a uprising like you have never seen. I have saved and invested for 30 years in my 401K. They will not steal it from me.”

They stole mine. I am one of the “Career Transitioned” who cannot find work.


13 posted on 10/13/2010 1:50:47 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Remember March 23, 1775. Remember March 23, 2010)
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To: roses of sharon

They wont because the Republicans dont fight. They just sit there and let the Democrats define the issue. Every candidate should be repeating Newts line: Paychecks vs Food Stamps. I have not heard one candidate pickup on that. As you say, they should be hammering the Dems on the seizure of 401k issue. They dont.


14 posted on 10/13/2010 1:51:01 PM PDT by thepatriot1 (...brought to you courtesy of the Red, White and Blue)
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To: roses of sharon

Never EVER trust the government to do what they say they will do.


15 posted on 10/13/2010 1:51:14 PM PDT by ez ("Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton, Paradise Lost)
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To: colorado tanker
This couldn’t be constitutional.

It is to those that don't believe in the constitution.

16 posted on 10/13/2010 1:51:51 PM PDT by Major Matt Mason (Never trust a liberal...or a GOP moderate.)
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To: colorado tanker

The Democrats have decided that everything is Constitutional until the courts say its not, and then they will pack the courts.


17 posted on 10/13/2010 1:53:46 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: colorado tanker

It is insane, as are the Dems, every darn one of them.

Always scheming on how to TAKE our earnings, they should all be treated like common horse thieves.


18 posted on 10/13/2010 2:03:40 PM PDT by roses of sharon (I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13)
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To: exit82

My sentiments exactly. I keep hearing/reading “if they do that it’s time for rebellion”, and yet nothing happens.

Would it this time?

The lawlessness of this administration, enabled by the democratic house and senate is mind-blowing, and I just hope and pray that after years and years it will be addressed/corrected/prosecuted. But I’m not very optimistic.

I guess justice just isn’t swift enough for me.


19 posted on 10/13/2010 2:06:22 PM PDT by kevslisababy
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To: colorado tanker
This couldn’t be constitutional.

Of course it is. Under the commerce clause everything is fair game.

Pull it out. Take the hit. Invest in precious metals (Lead, brass, copper, steel,...)

20 posted on 10/13/2010 2:08:27 PM PDT by Drill Thrawl (Palin Haley O'Donnell - mmm mmmm mmmmmmmmm)
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To: exit82
If we do not peacefully take back this country on November 2nd, it will be 1860 all over again.

I respectfully disagree. It won't be like 1860, it'll be more like 2006 Baghdad. There won't be secession. There will be a couple million thoroughly PO'd sharpshooters sniping at the thieving politicians.

21 posted on 10/13/2010 2:08:35 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney ( New book, RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. More @ www.book-resistancetotyranny.com)
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To: ncfool

This county will experience a uprising like you have never seen. I have saved and invested for 30 years in my 401K. They will not steal it from me.

Get out of it now! The inflation they created will steal it.


22 posted on 10/13/2010 2:31:33 PM PDT by lookout88 (.combat officer's dad,)
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To: roses of sharon
Democrats in the Senate on Thursday held a recess hearing covering a taxpayer bailout of union pensions and a plan to seize private 401(k) plans to more "fairly" distribute taxpayer-funded pensions to everyone.

Only in the fevered minds of totalitarians, career politicians, unproductive bureaucrats and the insane could 401(k) plans be redefined as "taxpayer funded."

For the progressives reading this, and other feebleminded, 401(k)s are funded entirely by the wage earner with employer matching modest percentages of the regular payday amount, only not so much lately.

I understand that politicians and other criminals believe that if they haven't collected taxes on these amounts they have helped to fund the account.
That is exactly the same as the burglar and the mugger claiming that by refraining from victimizing you, he is subsidizing your lifestyle, no matter how modest it may be. The only difference is the thin veneer of legality, passing a law first to make it "legal" in one instance, but not in the other. The definition of "public servant" has gone "1984"

Did i mention that these elected criminals at all level of government got their COLAs this year?

23 posted on 10/13/2010 2:33:47 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("In 1964 the War on Poverty Began --- Poverty won.")
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To: roses of sharon

Tipping point.

The start of massive non-compliance at best, and all out war at worst.


24 posted on 10/13/2010 2:36:26 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: colorado tanker
This couldn’t be constitutional

Of course, it’s not constitutional but when has this administration allowed the Constitution to be an impediment?

25 posted on 10/13/2010 2:37:47 PM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, Trust few, and always paddle your own canoe)
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To: roses of sharon
Banks in the Caymans and the Alps are smacking their lips...

It's all good and well to protest, rattle sabers and shout "from my cold dead hands", but the money's not in your hands, it's in the bank. No one from the gov't will show up at your door to steal your 401K. They'll get the banks to do it for them, and probably charge you a fee to do it as well. You may not even know about it until you try to draw some money out...

The only way to avoid confiscation is to take the substantial penalty and withdraw it now. That money has to go somewhere, and I figure a lot of it will go offshore.

26 posted on 10/13/2010 2:48:52 PM PDT by ZOOKER ( Exploring the fine line between cynicism and outright depression)
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To: Drill Thrawl

Pull it out. Take the hit. Invest in precious metals


Republicans need to warn the voters RIGHT NOW about the massive sell off in the market that would be precipitated by this scheme to confiscate 401k’s.


27 posted on 10/13/2010 2:49:26 PM PDT by Starboard
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To: Publius6961

That is exactly the same as the burglar and the mugger claiming that by refraining from victimizing you, he is subsidizing your lifestyle, no matter how modest it may be.


Excellent analogy. Good post.


28 posted on 10/13/2010 2:51:46 PM PDT by Starboard
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To: GeronL
The Democrats have decided that everything is Constitutional until the courts say its not, and then they will pack the courts.

Unfortunately, that's the way our system was set up. The Supreme Court can not initiate action without a petitioner with standing (think ALL Republican members of the House and the Senate) requests it, and then only if they can prove that delaying action will cause irreperable harm.

It never occured to the Founders that the integrity of elected officials would deteriorate to the point that they would decide what the Constitution means, and get away with it. The SC must stand by helplessly.

Why the Republicans did not do that twenty months ago will fill a large future volume on Constitutional Law.

Assuming our Constitution survives without further perversions.

29 posted on 10/13/2010 2:55:55 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("In 1964 the War on Poverty Began --- Poverty won.")
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To: ncfool
They will not steal it from me.

The only way you can ensure this is if you liquidate it before they pull this. As long as your funds are parked in a 401k, you are powerless and there isn't a damn thing you can do to stop them from stealing it from you.

I'm so glad I liquidated my entire 401k last year. I sunk the entire amount into a huge downpayment on a reasonable, affordable house to give us a mortgage smaller than the car payments we had a few years ago. So if they want to steal my 401k, they'll have to physically come take me out of my house in a body bag.

30 posted on 10/13/2010 3:05:16 PM PDT by Zeddicus
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To: lookout88

Get out of it now! The inflation they created will steal it

Sounds like they will create and blame it on inflation bail out the system and all of our pensions will be controlled by them.

How long do we sit?


31 posted on 10/13/2010 3:06:43 PM PDT by ronnie raygun (The tides coming in)
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To: a fool in paradise

END ALL GOVERNMENT PENSIONS


BTW, federal employees have their own retirement savings accounts. The Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) is a retirement savings and investment plan for Federal employees that was established in 1986. It offers the same types of savings and tax benefits that many private corporations offer their employees under 401(k) plans.

The TSP is a defined contribution plan, meaning that the retirement income received from a TSP account will depend on how much a federal employee (and the agency through matching contributions) put into an employee’s account during your working years and the earnings accumulated over that time.

For federal employees covereded by the current Federal Employees’ Retirement System (FERS), the TSP is one part of a three-part retirement package that also includes a FERS basic annuity and Social Security.

Tapping private 401k’s without also tapping the federal employee equivalent of 401k’s would seem to raise serious constitutional and/or political issues for the Democrats.


32 posted on 10/13/2010 3:16:49 PM PDT by Starboard
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To: spodefly
The start of massive non-compliance at best, and all out war at worst.

Absolutely no need for an all out war - the number of enemy to be harshly dealt with would be the number of those legislators approving such a theft. I am guessing the number would be less than 300.

33 posted on 10/13/2010 3:24:01 PM PDT by USMA '71 ((Re-elect no one!))
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To: ronnie raygun

How long do we sit?

You know what? I took out as big a loan as I could a week ago on my 401. Gold, silver, copper, lead, guns. food, Bought some uranium stock.


34 posted on 10/13/2010 4:06:01 PM PDT by lookout88 (.combat officer's dad,)
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To: roses of sharon

They’ve done this before when they started including FICA tax revenues in the general budget.


35 posted on 10/13/2010 4:09:49 PM PDT by hotshu (Keep America's Faith, that's all 0bama and his fellow traitors can't steal from us.)
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To: ncfool

Ditto that! From my cold dead hands.


36 posted on 10/13/2010 4:16:56 PM PDT by jersey117
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To: ncfool

Ditto that! From my cold dead hands.


37 posted on 10/13/2010 4:16:59 PM PDT by jersey117
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To: USMA '71
Absolutely no need for an all out war - the number of enemy to be harshly dealt with would be the number of those legislators approving such a theft. I am guessing the number would be less than 300.

I am guessing you are wrong. At a minimum it's a couple of thousand, to include Commissions, Czars and their staff, etc. The criminals can't exercise their power without triggermen.

Ever looked into the way vermin extermination works?

It's never bothered them before, but the bottom of the bureaucratic food chain of enforcers is NOT a job I would want to have for the next few years.

38 posted on 10/13/2010 4:20:09 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("In 1964 the War on Poverty Began --- Poverty won.")
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To: Starboard

Rats in the private sector have 401k’s too. This is a total winning issue for republicans.


39 posted on 10/13/2010 4:26:23 PM PDT by jersey117
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To: roses of sharon

Yep, if they are trying to start another civil war this would do the trick. I wonder what the government would do if everyone withdrew all their funds from their 401K? Would they send the IRS goons to all citizens front doors demanding the money. Only in a Democrats mind is this even considered.


40 posted on 10/13/2010 4:56:45 PM PDT by reader25
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To: Starboard
You may have something there, but might be more to it. Obama might be setting us up for a big fall--pulling money out of the stock market just after the election to make life hard on us for voting for the Republicans and blame them for the financial problems of his making.

Read this here:CNBC's Fast Money Scroll down and read comments.

Then again it could just be lots of talke.

41 posted on 10/13/2010 6:23:50 PM PDT by madison10
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To: roses of sharon

Don’t worry, this will never pass.

-smartest people in the room talking about TARP

Don’t worry, it’ll never get through the Senate

-smartest people in the room talking about Obamacare

Don’t worry, that bill isn’t going anywhere.

-smartest people in the room discussing Financial Reform

Don’t worry, they’ll extend the Bush tax cuts.

-smartest people in the room

Don’t worry, this 401K grab will never happen.

-smartest people in the room right now


42 posted on 10/13/2010 6:46:49 PM PDT by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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To: Tzimisce

Not a window left in any federal office


43 posted on 10/13/2010 6:50:16 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: Tzimisce

........Read my TAG Line.......


44 posted on 10/13/2010 6:57:59 PM PDT by GitmoSailor (AZ Cold War Veteran -Will the NOV election only be LOST under MARTIAL LAW?)
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To: roses of sharon

Unions are using threats in their ads....
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/10/government_unions_gone_wild.html


45 posted on 10/13/2010 7:01:12 PM PDT by csmusaret (If the Bush recession ended in June 2009, did the Obama economy begin in July 2009?)
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To: ncfool

This would be THE last straw.


46 posted on 10/13/2010 7:55:28 PM PDT by Newton ('No arsenal is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' -Ronald Reagan)
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To: ncfool; The Sons of Liberty; DallasDeb; Spok; Major Matt Mason; Publius6961
This story is complete BS. Human Events is simply lying. There is NOTHING in Guilarducci's proposal about "seizing" 401(k)s. Instead, she advocates getting rid of the tax deduction for 401(k)s & IRAs, and replacing it with basically another government welfare program. But it wouldn't affect current 401(k) balances.

Her plan is awful. But Human Events isn't reporting facts. It's reporting totally unneccessary and irrational lies.

47 posted on 10/13/2010 9:05:55 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: roses of sharon

I am tempted to cash out my ira and take the tax hit now.

Government can go to Hell.


48 posted on 10/16/2010 10:45:50 AM PDT by Diggity
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