Skip to comments.Brother, sister dead in murder-suicide at Fort Lauderdale's Beach Place
Posted on 10/14/2010 7:36:52 AM PDT by ConservativeStatement
A family dispute at Beach Place on Wednesday afternoon ended with a man fatally shooting his sister and then turning the gun on himself as they stood next to their mother, police said.
Juan Alicea Orozco, 23, of Fort Lauderdale, died shortly afterward at Broward General Medical Center. His sister, Jesnishia Alicea Orozco, 25, of Oakland Park, died that evening at the same hospital. Their mother was not injured, police said.
(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...
I guess psychological trauma accounts for nothing.
what a loser
Gene pool cleansing?
Probably prescribed something because of the stress of his mother being ill and the all too common “side effects” kicked in.
“2 less” what?
I read the entire article, and did not see that in there. Do you have a source?
Where did you come up with that? Do you think every person with a Hispanic name is an illegal alien? You do know there were people named Rodriquez and Garcia living in what became the United States long before people named Smith and Jone.
“You do know there were people named Rodriquez and Garcia living in what became the United States long before people named Smith and Jone.”
Which Spanish colony occupied one of the original 13? Who displaced it?
Since obviously there were no Spanish colonies amongst the original 13 British colonies, which became the US of A...your statement is demonstrably false.
In fact, Britain, and by extension “what became the United States” was nearly continually at war with the Spanish. There were virtually no Spaniards amongst the original colonies...there were certainly no Spanish colonies among the 13 colonies which “became the United States.”
Now, of course there were Hispanics living in areas that later joined/were absorbed into the USA. But the original 13 had nothing to do with Spain, Spaniards didn’t inhabit the colonies, had never inhabited the colonies, and we owe Hispanics nothing for the founding of the United States.
My kids have ancestors who came on the Mayflower in 1620. They also have ancestors with Hispanic surnames from New Mexico who lived there since the 1500’s.
Those with Hispanic surnames also never lived in the State of Mexico.
“Learn to read English. “in what became the United States” doesn’t mean exclusively “the original 13 colonies.”
Yes, it does. If you had bothered to read, you know, English, you’d have saw that I already dealt with your point.
“What became the United States” were the original 13 colonies, nothing more. If you join after the United States already exists, you’re not “becoming” anything...you’re joining.
Or do you believe that the United States didn’t exist until Hawaii joined in 1959?
Could you by the same token assert that people with names like Mahaulu and Aneko lived in what became the United States long before people with names like Smith did, because of course they did...in Hawaii. So how much do we owe to our Polynesian Founding Fathers?
Feel free to argue that point all you want...but only the original 13 “became” the United States.
Yes...from New Mexico.
Which one of the original 13 British colonies which “became” the United States was New Mexico?
Was California also one? What about Florida?
Don’t let the ‘Spanish spoken in the USA before English’ crowd get you down. That’s McCain speak.
Not one of the current immigrant crowd EVER had ancestors on any part of the USA. The few that were here became AMERICANS and stayed here, mostly brought by Spanish missionaries. Unlike the Mexican illegal alien of today, they didn’t want any part of Mexico, and didn’t seek to bring it here.
Mr. Reconquista, Show me yours and I’ll show you mine!
Quote from a Latino who feels this country should be his... “There will never be justice because we were displaced of our lands and until our proper identification is returned back us to, our lands will never be returned to us. But at least return us our identity. We are indigenous people to this land.”
Really? Well, Mr. Reconquista, show me yours and I’ll show you mine.
Mexicans illegally in this country had no ancestors who lived in these United States. I’ve offered the challenge to hundreds of them. The handful of Mexicans who lived here when the US bought that land from Mexico left no descendants in Mexico, especially the southern area and Central America where most illegals now come from. NO, they became AMERICANS. Their progeny are citizens.
This country is sacred land to we NATIVE born citizens, most of us with long historical ancestry. We don’t take lightly being told we don’t belong here, but you invaders do.
I have family who pioneered, built and died defending this country, many were indigenous as you claim to be, buried in Massachusetts, New York, Washington DC, Virginia, Ohio, Missouri, Georgia, Arkansas,Tennessee, Oklahoma Indian Territory, Texas, Kansas, Oregon, California, Arizona, New Mexico, South Carolina, North Carolina, Utah. There are a couple buried in Mexico.
Now, show me yours. Where do your ancestors rest?
Know this, we will protect this sacred ground. There are millions more of us than you and you can’t have enough anchor babies to change it before my fellow Americans get enough of your “attitude”. Go back to the third world you wish to impose on us and take your dream of colonizing my country with you. The sooner the better.
Don’t be an anti-Hispanic douche.
New Mexico DID become part of what is now the United States. I think you might have read more into stormers comment than was there. Stormer never said anything about the 13 colonies.
Please quote my “anti-Hispanic” words.
So you believe that with each state that is added to the Union the United States ceases to exist and instead reinvents itself as the “new” United States?
Stormer said that Hispanics lived in what “became” the United States long before the English did...implying that they had some kind of claim to the land. They did not.
That is demonstrably false. The US only became the US one time. Spaniards had nothing to do with the founding of the US. Nothing. We continually fought with Spain and Spanish colonies...later, we absorbed areas that Spain had controlled.
Maybe we aren’t even the United States yet because Puerto Rico hasn’t achieved statehood?
The comments about “2 less”, “gene pool cleansing” and “illegals” are pretty disturbing. All the facts we have are that a man murdered his sister, then killed himself, in front of their mother while she was at work. The family has an Hispanic surname, a fact which reveals absolutely nothing about their legal residency. These comments seem to be implying that the sister deserved to die, or that the mother deserved to have this happen in front of her because...they’re Hispanic? Is that it?
So are you saying my children, whose ancestors never lived in the Country of Mexico, but were natives of the Western United States in New Mexico, Utah and Colorado should go “back” and that they are now interlopers in this country?
If so I hate to have you as a representation of someone who is conservative....you would be just a racist creep.
LOL! Geographically challenged, are we? As has been pointed out, I never said anything about the original colonies - but let’s ignore that for now. The oldest European-founded city in the US is St. Augustine, Florida, founded 1565 by (gasp) Spaniard, Pedro Menendez de Avilez (note the Hispanic name). Of course if you were from El Pueblo Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncola - oops, I mean Los Angeles - you might have a better idea about your nation’s history. Or San Francisco, El Paso, San Antonio, the San Juan Islands, Montana, the Sierra Nevada, Las Vegas... I could go on.
I like how you avoided my reasonable questions with an attempt to use the race card. Thank God that is an instant disqualification here. I’ve said nothing like what you suggest, I’ve only discussed history.
If you want to believe in some touchy-feely PC version of history that has the entire World singing kumbaya while authoring the Declaration of Independence, go for it. But it isn’t fact.
Let me ask you a simple question, since you seem to have trouble answering without relying on attacking the man instead of the message.
Did Eskimos live in “what became the US” long before anyone named Smith did? If so, what debt exactly do we owe to our Inuit Founding Fathers?
A factual sentence would be...
“Hispanics lived in areas which became PART of the United States long before anyone named Smith, but by the time these areas gained statehood Hispanic influence was virtually non-existent.” Of course, by the same token you could say that other Europeans lived in areas of the United States long, long before anyone named Garcia showed up. If you really wanted to be accurate, you would mention that those areas consisted of 3 main areas...Florida, California, and New Mexico. None of which had anything to do with the founding of the United States.
Of course, I could counter that easily by mentioning the Indians who lived in those same areas long, long before their Spanish overlords arrived. Now what?
I considered countering your claims of my racism by calling you a pedophile, but I won’t. Child molestation trumps racism, right Chester?
You my friend, are simply changing the subject. Perhaps you should read the posts from the start of the thread instead of listening to your own voice speak. You would see that we are talking about the rights of folks names Garcia, Salazar, Trujillo, and Ochoa to be here.
You aren’t that dense are you?
So it is your contention that St. Augustine “became” the United States? Who knew that the British colonies actually started in a Spanish one.
Only 13 colonies, which were British, became the US. No more, no less. Which one of the original 13 were Spanish?
In my first post to you I acknowledged the Spanish presence in the New World. Just being here first doesn’t mean you formed the United States.
In fact, by the time the places you mention became part of the United States, Spanish influence was long gone. What remained were the Mestizos and place names.
I guess since Chicago is an Indian word, Indians formed what became Chicago?
Who knew they were so advanced?
So...did Eskimos have a role in the founding of our nation also?
I changed the subject?
By pointing out that you answered none of my questions, and instead called me a racist?
Please point out where you answered any of my questions. I can show you where you screamed racism if you wish.
“You would see that we are talking about the rights of folks names Garcia, Salazar, Trujillo, and Ochoa to be here.”
No, that is what you’re talking about. I’m talking about history.
So please, answer my questions that I posed to you before I “changed the subject.” Why won’t you?
You don’t have to destroy your enemy, just his willingness to engage. Why won’t you engage?
I didn’t call you a racist. I said IF you think that my children should go “back” to a country they NOR their ancestors ever lived in, THEN you WOULD be a racist.
Now, please go back to post #11. The original post you responded to on this thread and see if you can determine the intent and purpose for stormer posting it. Then see if your post #12 doesn’t sound racist. These two posts are the basis for this discussion.
Don’t be coy. You attempted to put words in my mouth. Then, after authoring words that you wish to attribute to me, you accused me of racism.
You also neatly avoided all the difficult questions by doing so. Too bad that ploy is worn so thin these days.
“Then see if your post #12 doesnt sound racist.”
Please quote the exact words in post #12 that “sound racist.”
“These two posts are the basis for this discussion.”
I’ve done nothing but elaborate on my initial post, you know, the basis for this discussion.
You, on the other hand, have repeatedly insulted me, put words in my mouth, and then attempted to call me a racist based on your own imagination.
I can’t help but notice that you ignored those damn questions again. Since you seem to really like post #12, why don’t you just answer the questions contained within it? Feel free to start there. And don’t use the dreaded “r” word.
Please, don’t forget to quote the exact words from my post #12 which you believe “sound racist.”
Your “logic” is positively bizarre. Are you saying that areas not included in the original 13 colonies did not become the United States? Furthermore, the original colonies did not even achieve statehood at the same time. Have you ever wondered why Delaware’s motto is “The First State”? Because it is! Here is a list of states and their DOBs:
1 Delaware 7 December 1787
2 Pennsylvania 12 December 1787
3 New Jersey 18 December 1787
4 Georgia 2 January 1788
5 Connecticut 9 January 1788
6 Massachusetts 6 February 1788
7 Maryland 28 April 1788
8 South Carolina 23 May 1788
9 New Hampshire 21 June 1788
10 Virginia 25 June 1788
11 New York 26 July 1788
12 North Carolina 21 November 1789
13 Rhode Island 29 May 1790
14 Vermont 4 March 1791
15 Kentucky 1 June 1792
16 Tennessee 1 June 1796
17 Ohio 1 March 1803
18 Louisiana 30 April 1812
19 Indiana 11 December 1816
20 Mississippi 10 December 1817
21 Illinois 3 December 1818
22 Alabama 14 December 1819
23 Maine 15 March 1820
24 Missouri 10 August 1821
25 Arkansas 15 June 1836
26 Michigan 26 January 1837
27 Florida 3 March 1845
28 Texas 29 December 1845
29 Iowa 28 December 1846
30 Wisconsin 29 May 1848
31 California 9 September 1850
32 Minnesota 11 May 1858
33 Oregon 14 February 1859
34 Kansas 29 January 1861
35 West Virginia 20 June 1863
36 Nevada 31 October 1864
37 Nebraska 1 March 1867
38 Colorado 1 August 1876
39 North Dakota 2 November 1889
40 South Dakota 2 November 1889
41 Montana 8 November 1889
42 Washington 11 November 1889
43 Idaho 3 July 1890
44 Wyoming 10 July 1890
45 Utah 4 January 1896
46 Oklahoma 16 November 1907
47 New Mexico 6 January 1912
48 Arizona 14 February 1912
49 Alaska 3 January 1959
50 Hawaii 21 August 1959
'Baby on Board' --I'm more important than you are --so be extra careful driving around me...
I’m not the only one who responded to your post questioning your reasoning. Your post elicited several responses questioning your position.
Tell me, please, what rights did people with Hispanic surnames have in the original 13 colonies?
Do you think there were ANY folks in the original colonies that had Hispanic surnames?
Your logic is flawless, however. After all, it is perfectly logical to ignore questions in a debate and instead just plow ahead.
Answer one simple question, if only one.
Did Eskimos live in what “became” (key word here...if you had said “became part of” then there would be no discussion) the United States?
Did they? Because the United States only “became” one time...in 1776. And in 1776, only former British colonies made up the United States. Of the 56 delegates that signed the DOI, which one was Hispanic? Which one represented Hispanic areas?
If you manage to answer that one and are feeling spry, feel free to go back and answer one of the many questions you’ve skipped so far.
As for your post, "Do you have one of these on your car?"...here's your sign:
Who let those damn French in? /sarcasm
I like how you continually refuse to answer questions that are difficult for you...but expect me to answer yours.
But since I’m correct, I have no problem answering yours. Your avoidance of mine just proves my point.
“Im not the only one who responded to your post questioning your reasoning. Your post elicited several responses questioning your position.”
Ah, an appeal to the majority. Well, if other people believe it, it must be true. Everyone knows that.
“Tell me, please, what rights did people with Hispanic surnames have in the original 13 colonies?”
What rights did a homosexual Laplander in a wheelchair have? How much do we owe to our homosexual, handicapped Laplander founders?
I’m not sure what your point is. Because Hispanics had equal rights, they must be equally responsible for the creation of the very system that gave them equal rights? Which one of the 56 delegates was a Spaniard? The answer is none. Which of the original 13 colonies had a sizable Spanish population? None. The Spaniards were the ENEMIES of the British, and therefore the enemies of the colonies. So while all the raiding and killing was going on...how do you think Spaniards were received? I’ll give you a hint...about like a newly arrived German circa 1942.
The Dutch created South Africa. There was nothing there before they arrived. Black Africans (now) have equal rights in South Africa. Therefore, Black Africans must have founded South Africa. Is that how it goes?
“Do you think there were ANY folks in the original colonies that had Hispanic surnames?”
A lot of the folks in the original colonies had African surnames. Did Africans found the US? Nice strawman, however. I’ve never said that there were zero Hispanics. Just that they didn’t found the colonies, they didn’t run the colonies, and they were a tiny, tiny minority. They were also the enemies of the colonies. So you tell me...how many do you think there were?
Since you obviously believe that there were more than a few, and that they held influence...why don’t you share some Spanish place names from New England?
You might find one or two. Now contrast that with California, or any of the Spanish controlled areas.
A reasonable person could infer from the lack of Spanish place names in New England/the 13 colonies that the Spanish had a level of influence that approximates the number of Spanish place names.
Just like you could infer that since in California Spanish place names are quite common, even prevalent, that they exerted considerable influence there at one time.
Now go off on another tangent.
You are a moron. Why do you want to deny the civilizing impact of the Spanish colonial period, even to go so far as to look for equivalence in the contribution of Eskimos? You have got to be shitting me. I can only guess about why you hate Hispanics, but I don’t need to know anything more about you than I already do. This whole argument began when you made the assumption that someone, anyone, with a Hispanic name is in this country illegally - that is stupid and wrong, but you attempted to cover you tracks and explain it all away by trotting out some completely irrelevant crap. Get a life.
You also wear those ribbons don’t you.....which ones do you have?
“Why do you want to deny the civilizing impact of the Spanish colonial period, even to go so far as to look for equivalence in the contribution of Eskimos?”
Which part of the Constitution would you say was influenced by Spanish colonialists?
“I can only guess about why you hate Hispanics, but I dont need to know anything more about you than I already do.”
Ah, another cry of racism. I don’t hate Hispanics...but I am developing a strong dislike for their internet cheerleaders.
“This whole argument began when you made the assumption that someone, anyone, with a Hispanic name is in this country illegally”
No it didn’t. That is a flat out lie. In which post did I do that? Please quote me or link it.
“but you attempted to cover you tracks and explain it all away by trotting out some completely irrelevant crap”
So irrelevant that you were reduced to strawmen, insults, and cries of racism. Yep.
I gather by your insults and petulance that you’re gathering your toys and going home? Well...bye.
Now go off on another tangent.
It isn't me who is posting several paragraph responses that have nothing to do with the issues at hand.
Your questions simply do not warrant a response.
Have a nice day.
So if you accuse someone of “sounding racist,” then they challenge you to quote what exactly sounded racist...and you refuse, it is because it didn’t deserve a response...not because you can’t prove it?
That is some curious logic. Lets examine it.
Cop: We know you killed the guy. We have video evidence.
Suspect: No I didn’t. Show me the videotape.
Cop: No, that doesn’t warrant a response.
Why haven’t you quoted my words from my #12 that “sounded racist” to you? Is it because its much easier to accuse someone of being a racist than it is to answer difficult questions?
Should I list all of the other questions you declined? There are at least a half dozen by now. None of them were worth a response...yet you still responded.
I guess that means you’re interested in arguing, not debating. Seeing you flee the field is worth all the finger pain caused by destroying everything you said. I answered all your questions...you avoided all of mine. Knotts holds the field.
Have a nice day.
Why are you trying to make this so complicated.
There was a charge initially on this thread that “those” people need to leave or die.
Stormer responded by saying in effect that some of “those” people where on this land WAY before the English (Smith and Jones). I jumped in to say that in my (kids) experience they have wonderful ancestors who were both Spaniards and English.
You jumped in with some “history” lessons about the original 13 colonies. - - Yeah, we get it, the colonies consisted of mostly English colonies if you don’t count the Dutch colonies.
I have chosen not to respond to your side posts. Your issues are not mine. To me, you appear to be racist. You’ve done nothing to dispel my notion.
Their poor mother, may God give her the strength to cope.
Idiotic sentiments like yours could prevent a good man like Marco Rubio from winning his election.
Okay, you’ve made it abundantly clear that you’d rather be passive aggressive and insulting than to answer a simple question politely asking you to clarify your own published comment.
In that case, you do leave one no choice but to imagine what you meant. So, unfair as it may be, one choice might be to rely on your FR homepage and think that you would be horrified if someone walked into a mall in Florida, pulled out a gun, and point blank shot two cats. But, since these were two human beings shot dead in front of their mother, for some reason that makes it something for you to be facetious about. It may or may not have anything to do with them being Hispanic. I’ll leave that for others to come to their own conclusions about, as I now have, based on your own evasion and demeanor on this thread.
Terrific post. Kudos.
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