Posted on 10/19/2010 9:44:20 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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“The cost of most private universities has climbed to a point where someone graduating with a (eg) Harvard piece of paper is packing around a non-dischargable house-sized note, and it provides neither shelter or transportation, and only limited earning potential.”
You’re right in general, but the most elite schools—including Ivies—still have an ROI that make the investment in them worthwhile even though they also are the priciest.
These ROIs take into account not only direct costs but also the income foregone by going to school; they also account for the fact that many students don’t graduate in 4 years.
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jun2010/bs20100618_385280_page_3.htm
KRAMER: “What did you want to see me about, Mr. Leland?”
LELAND: “Kramer, I’ve.. been reviewing your work.. Quite frankly, it stinks.”
KRAMER: “Well, I ah.. been havin’ trouble at home and uh.. I mean, ah, you know, I’ll work harder, nights, weekends, whatever it takes..”
LELAND: “No, no, I don’t think that’s going to, do it, uh. These reports you handed in. It’s almost as if you have no business training at all. I don’t know what this is supposed to be!”
KRAMER: “Well, I’m uh, just—tryin’ to get ahead..”
LELAND: “Well, I’m sorry. There’s just no way that we could keep you on.”
KRAMER: “I don’t even really work here!”
That was one of my favorite scenes of all time.
Or were TAs or GAs...your tuition is paid if you can put in 20 hours per week working for a prof.
In the mean time the pressure on the new guys was to get a PE, then get an MBA or MSF gotta have that punch. Half of these people weren't even stump trained in some cases a lot of paper and no talent.
Exactly what I did. No big name school. With an undergraduate Accounting Degree, the MBA helped me better understand how to manage people and helped me in my critical thinking to make business decisions. Some may say it wasn't worth it, but to me it was worth it both in time and money.
You’re the expert, and my example is very likely the exception, but a nephew who graduated with undergrad accounting only went on to become CFO of an international multi-billion $ company and himself makes a sky-high income. Another academe-oriented relative just couldn’t believe he was so successful without an MBA. It didn’t fit the template.
Sounds like me. I got mine back in 1995. It has made absolutely no difference in my career.
The courses were paid for by the employer though, and many of them were fun. I am glad for the experience. I may have learned a thing or two which would be useful if I ever strike out on my own.
Your sentiments are what we heard from our son. He said it gave him much greater understanding and a broader knowledge base (because they make you “think” outside the box and take classes in disciplines that aren’t your strong suit or related to your major.) Plus it encouraged a lot of networking, and that usually pays off in the end.
That's how I got mine. They paid for tuition and books.
just because a self-taught mechanic succeeds, it doesn’t prove that all mechanics schools is a waste of time.
This is a question I have been asking myself lately. With all of the money the govt sends to education, why is the cost of it going up?
Shouldnt a subsidy reduce the cost to the final purchaser?
Must be an issue with the “throughput” (an absolutely awful word made up by production management professors so people could feel smart about describing an action accurately without having to be precise).
There are several issues with the study’s ROI calculation, starting with the rearward-looking data back to a time of rather significant inflation, which we haven’t seen in the last 10 years.
Then the ROI is being compared to 30-year Treasuries, which is fine, but they exclude the issue that you are free to sell the 30 year T at any time, and you’re not free to discharge your school debt at any time. This non-dischargeable debt started in 2005, and they’re not taking this into proper account, IMO. It is going to take 10+ years to pay down that note, and if you’re out of a job at any point in there, the bills these schools are packing on are set to wreck kids’ lives. They’re also playing a bit fast and loose with the comparison, because the current yields on long-term Treasuries is depressed, and artificially so. If they’re going to take averages of salary increases over that period, then they should compare to an average of 30 year yields over that period as well - which would come out rather higher than 4.8% - more like 6%+
In general, the whole higher education industry is Yet Another Bubble. The best evidence is the same sort of evidence we saw in the housing bubble: new loan products being cooked up to allow people to afford what they cannot on organic earnings.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/21/pf/saving/private_student_loans/index.htm
Interest only loans? Golly, where have we seen this before? Longer payback periods? Sounds sort of like 50 year mortgages I saw in California in the 90’s...
I smell a bubble.
None of my managers have ever had an MBA. Maybe a few VP-level or C-level execs, that's all.
However, I've worked with plenty of people who had them. A Mixed Bag, as to be expected.
I especially like the early 20-somethings who come out of school (particularly the local state college) and expect their capital 'M' capital 'B' capital 'A' to be some sort of a wand that will warp them magically into a land of six figures, 4-hour-days, golf trips, hot blonde secretaries, and corner offices.
Reality is a harsh mistress.
I especially liked my boss (CIO, BSME, no MBA) who spoke to one of the kids a little directly. Kid was getting pretty full of himself at lunch one day, and my CIO popped his ego with the question: "So, what did getting an MBA teach you?" "Uhhh.......stammer stammer stammer"
I mean, I can think of a half-dozen things off the top of my head....budgeting, conflict resolution, negotiating, communications, business ethics, finance ..... but this guy couldn't even spit out one. I guess "Thinking on your feet" wasn't a requirement, either. :-)
My daughter is working on her MBA and should have it in March. Most of her professors were very successful in the business world and retired and now enjoy teaching. She has learned a lot and hopefully her knowledge will translate into a good paying job with a bright future. Of course, if Obama were not president, I would be more optimistic for her.
College’s are one of the greatest scams in America.
Oh, I think that there are plenty of millenials that are rapidly finding that out, at least where I live. The job market stinks.
A large part of my company is a call center. I was talking to the operations manager (no MBA, BTW) just the other day. She said that things for her have never been better, she's been hiring MBAs to work the phones at an hourly wage. Decent bennies, but I can't imagine that they're making more than $12-15 / hr. She said that the poor job market has been a real boon for her dept - 2-3 years ago, she had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill the same positions. For now, at least, she's making hay while the sun shines.
Working phones, while a solid job (and at our company, some good prospects if you work your butt off), must be a bit of a comedown, to someone with 10's of thousands in debt, and who was promised a fortune....only if they got those three little letters after their name.
Yes. Has it made me more money? No. But more marketable? I would say yes but the market I am in is small, but if I had to move, it would be a resume enhancer.
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