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The Eternal Return of Overpopulation - Getting the cause of high fertility backwards.
Reason ^ | October 19, 2010 | Ronald Bailey

Posted on 10/19/2010 6:43:41 PM PDT by neverdem

Overpopulation panic is back. Concerns about a world too full of “filthy human children” motivated eco-terrorist James Lee when he held employees of the Discovery Channel hostage at gunpoint in September. But the deranged Lee is far from alone when it comes to worrying about overpopulation. The May-June cover of the progressive magazine Mother Jones asked, “Who’s to Blame for the Population Crisis?” British journalist Matthew Parris wrote an op-ed in September in the London Times asserting, “If you want to save the planet, stop breeding.” Parris further coyly suggested that we study “China’s example, for lessons good and bad.”

But on World Population Day in July, British journalist Fred Pearce argued that “population is not the problem.” Pearce’s relatively sanguine article at the environmentalist website Grist provoked Robert Walker, former head of the anti-gun group Handgun Control and now executive vice-president of the Population Institute, to respond at the same site with an article titled “Of course population is still a problem.”

Walker asks Pearce what he evidently thinks are deep questions: “Looking ahead, Fred, will these countries [with anticipated population growth in Africa and Asia] be able to feed themselves? Will they have enough safe drinking water? Will their lands be deforested or their rivers polluted? Will their maternal mortality rates and infant mortality rates remain unacceptably high? Will they be caught in a demographic poverty trap? Will they become failed states? If you have good answers to these questions, please let me know.”

Let’s take a stab at providing good answers to Walker’s questions.

Will the world be able to feed itself in 2050? As it happens, the journal Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B (Biological Sciences) devoted its September 27 issue to analyzing the issue of global food security through 2050. One of the specially...

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cultureofdeath; deathcultivation; fertility; health; lifehate; overpopulation; peoplehate; populationcontrol; science; zpg
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1 posted on 10/19/2010 6:43:48 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Personally I like kids.


2 posted on 10/19/2010 6:44:51 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: neverdem

Obama’s fault.


3 posted on 10/19/2010 6:48:17 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: neverdem
This might be all fine and dandy until all of us childless get to middle age and retirement. Then who's going to take care of us? Death panels? Oh, wait.
4 posted on 10/19/2010 6:50:16 PM PDT by LiberConservative
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To: neverdem
The population control freaks would never consider sterilizing themselves and their children to help in the cause they want to sterilize other people and control other people.
5 posted on 10/19/2010 6:50:51 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: neverdem

Lets say we give all 6 billion people on the planet 1,000 square feet each, did you realize that they all would fit very easily into the state of Texas (with over 1,300 billion square feet left over!).


6 posted on 10/19/2010 6:51:00 PM PDT by reegs
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To: neverdem

Thanks to our immigration policies, America will not have a population program. We will add another 130 million over the next 40 years. We will be approaching half a billion people by 2060.


7 posted on 10/19/2010 6:51:13 PM PDT by kabar
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To: neverdem
The solution is to simply do a little DNA adjustment and install whatever genes there are that create the condition called "indeterminant infertility".

That regularly produces offspring of which1/2 are infertile.

It's part of the reason some of the Sa'ami tribes have such low populations. Even Charles Darwin (and his first cousin bride) suffered from the condition with 1/2 their numerous children infertile.

There may be other groups with the problem so we should be able to find the genes. Using a virus to transport them to everyone on Earth, within a generation population growth would stop dead in its tracks!

8 posted on 10/19/2010 6:55:05 PM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: neverdem

Liberals love animals and trees...but they hate people.


9 posted on 10/19/2010 6:55:07 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Beware of the Socialist Government-Academia Grant Junkie-Rich "non-profit"-Liberal Media Complex)
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To: neverdem

I often ask my Leftist sister if she is a proponent of the Voluntary Human Extinction Program. She doesn’t appreciate it.


10 posted on 10/19/2010 6:55:14 PM PDT by originalbuckeye
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To: guitarplayer1953

I was not surprised that an anti-gunner would gravitate to over to this cause. It reveals a lot about the real reason why they want us disarmed. No concern about human life here, but lots of concern about resistance to their agenda.


11 posted on 10/19/2010 6:57:06 PM PDT by coydog (Time to feed the pigs!)
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To: reegs

>> Lets say we give all 6 billion people on the planet 1,000 square feet each, did you realize that they all would fit very easily into the state of Texas

DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!

Too damn many Yankees here already. :-)


12 posted on 10/19/2010 6:59:03 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: coydog
BINGO! GIVE THE PERSON A PRIZE!
13 posted on 10/19/2010 6:59:46 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: neverdem
End reproduction and all you have is a pristine dead planet. Plants need our CO2 and we need their oxygen. Biology 101, folks.

These insane eco people are beyond the beyond - and dangerous. Why don't we tell them that their alien predecessors were the ones who killed Mars? Worth a try.

14 posted on 10/19/2010 7:00:11 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall
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To: guitarplayer1953

I disagree.

With apologies to FReepers who are strict creationists Darwin was right about this one.

Libs either

A. abort their own kids and take themselves out of the gene pool or
B. Bugger each other with no offspring possible

it’s much easier when the garbage takes itself out.


15 posted on 10/19/2010 7:02:38 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Beware of the Socialist Government-Academia Grant Junkie-Rich "non-profit"-Liberal Media Complex)
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To: neverdem

Robert Walker, former head of the anti-gun group Handgun Control and now executive vice-president of the Population Institute,”

The world would be a much better place if all the control freaks like Robert Walker didn’t have so much free time on their hands.


16 posted on 10/19/2010 7:02:52 PM PDT by bereanway
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To: coydog

>> I was not surprised that an anti-gunner would gravitate to over to this cause

At first I was thinking it was yet another example of liberal cognitive dissonance — it would seem that someone concerned about overpopulation would WANT to spread weapons around.

But I see your point. The liberal elite want to disarm and control us so they can kill us off in their own way, at their leisure — that’s their real agenda.


17 posted on 10/19/2010 7:02:54 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: neverdem

If we stop putting food in the gas tank and start building nuclear power plants we can curb pollution and increase the food supply.


18 posted on 10/19/2010 7:03:11 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
then let the strong survive. I do believe that if they can not take care of themselves then they need to do something about it. I do not believe it is any of my business to exterminate them to lower the population like some have spoken of doing getting the humans down to around 500 million.
19 posted on 10/19/2010 7:06:48 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: GeronL

Prohibiting the reproduction of Socialism and Communism would insure Food Security.


20 posted on 10/19/2010 7:07:40 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall
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To: muawiyah

That’s a terrible idea

better: Kill liberals and end forign aid


21 posted on 10/19/2010 7:09:15 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: neverdem

The elephant in the room no one mentions is only a few groups of people are actually increasing in population. Muslims are definitely one of the most fertile. Other than that, the only countries experiencing population growth are 3rd world countries and countries who are the victim of rampant immigration from 3rd world countries. What’s ironic is these are the very people so beloved by the leftists, and it is leftists who are most concerned about population growth. I love it when the left starts to in-fight.


22 posted on 10/19/2010 7:16:15 PM PDT by PLK
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To: neverdem

I wish Mexico would stop breeding. They just send them here anyway.


23 posted on 10/19/2010 7:17:32 PM PDT by floridavoter2
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To: neverdem
Walker asks Pearce what he evidently thinks are deep questions: “Looking ahead, Fred, will these countries [with anticipated population growth in Africa and Asia] be able to feed themselves? Will they have enough safe drinking water?

The best answer: It depends on whether these countries practice capitalism. If no, the populace probably starves -- or survives on welfare. If yes, the populace prospers.

Of course, Walker is the sort who would never accept (nor understand) that answer.

24 posted on 10/19/2010 7:19:25 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: GeronL

It’s a marvelous solution. For the Leftwingtards, if it was good enough for Charles Darwin it’s good enough for them.


25 posted on 10/19/2010 7:20:42 PM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Exactly.

It helps conservatives demograpically in a democracy if we have more people like you and you procreate offspring who you raise the same way.

Future voters on our side.


26 posted on 10/19/2010 7:33:02 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Beware of the Socialist Government-Academia Grant Junkie-Rich "non-profit"-Liberal Media Complex)
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To: neverdem

“former head of the anti-gun group Handgun Control and now executive vice-president of the Population Institute”

Liberal scum generally believe in the same lies.


27 posted on 10/19/2010 7:34:14 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: kabar
Thanks to our immigration policies, America will not have a population program. We will add another 130 million over the next 40 years. We will be approaching half a billion people by 2060.

I think this recession/depression will finally fix the border and immigration problem, IMHO. The Great Depression was caused by a financial crisis whose underlying cause was bad debt just like this one. Obama's policies screwed up our recovery just like FDR's did, except we've shipped a lot of our manufacturing capabilities overseas.

Now we have a great excess of relatively unskilled labor, at least for the jobs left in this country. I'm afraid that recovering from this recession/depression is going to be like the 1930s. It's a great time to make legal immigration only on a skills based criteria with family unification limited and dependent on critically needed skill.

Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel: Multiculturalism a Failure

28 posted on 10/19/2010 7:42:44 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: kabar
Thanks to our immigration policies, America will not have a population program. We will add another 130 million over the next 40 years. We will be approaching half a billion people by 2060.

Yes, a horrifying and depressing thought. Life will not be worth living with 1 Billion people in USA. Every range has its capacity. We had a much higher quality of life with 200 million instead of the 310 million we now have. If we had not changed our immigration laws in 1965 (Lyndon Johnson & Democrats) our population would have leveled off at 265 million and we would be approaching ZPG by now. Instead its 310 million with no end it site. This is depressing to no end. And for those of you fools who think (or pretend to think) that this is a good thing, let me remind you that without the changes we had to our immigration policies in 1965 we would not have multi-culturalism and we certainly would not have Obama as president. Just look at the way the post 1965 people have voted and you will see 75% of them voting for the RATS.
29 posted on 10/19/2010 7:51:03 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: neverdem

Everywhere there is prosperity: US, Europe, Japan, the birth rate dramatically drops. That is part of why we have an immigration problems on both side of the Atlantic. White people don’t make enough babies anymore....

Prosperity = Lower Birth Rate
Capitalism = Prosperity

Therefore: Encouraging capitalism and economic growth worldwide will inevitably lead to a downward population trend.


30 posted on 10/19/2010 8:00:21 PM PDT by Mad_as_heck (The MSM - America's (domestic) public enemy #1.)
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To: neverdem

Isn’t this racist? Surely “eco-terrorist James Lee” knows that the majority of children being born on the planet are within races that are the minorities in the West.


31 posted on 10/19/2010 8:07:31 PM PDT by fightinJAG (Step away from the toilet. Let the housing market flush.)
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To: LiberConservative

I’ve heard this called the demographic bonus, as the birth rate drops, the dependency ratio drops (number of working vs. number they support). Then, as everyone in the bulge before the population crunch retires, it becomes demographic winter or “graying of society”. The only solutions are: make everyone old keep working, import workers, or kill the elderly. The question is, what will our society do?


32 posted on 10/19/2010 8:20:28 PM PDT by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Sirat: Through the Fires of Hell" - on amazon.com)
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To: coydog

That and the big salaries and perks.


33 posted on 10/19/2010 8:23:42 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Nervous Tick; reegs
Well, France is about the same size in area as Texas.

Just for a little perspective, I lived in Japan for 15 years, a country with a little less than half the U.S. population in a land area the size of Montana. About 70% of that land area is too heavily in forest and mountains to permit much human habitation. And, yet, is is one of the most pleasant places on earth.

People are not the problem. Even population density is not the problem. The problem is the type of people and the policies.

34 posted on 10/19/2010 8:45:30 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: neverdem

If every person who thinks that there are too many humans would commit suicide, there wouldn’t be too many humans.


35 posted on 10/19/2010 8:55:43 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: muawiyah

That’s not kooky.


36 posted on 10/19/2010 9:18:10 PM PDT by Minn
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To: Eric Blair 2084
it’s much easier when the garbage takes itself out.

Like when conservatives turn their kids over to liberals for their education?

37 posted on 10/19/2010 10:54:51 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: truthguy

You’d rather have Europe? Trust me, America is better off now than in your alternative.

Kids and an expanding population is the sign of a healthy society. Unhealthy societies fixation on “sustainability”.


38 posted on 10/20/2010 2:49:52 AM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: truthguy

“be fruitful and multiply”

zero population growth is a losing pessimistic philosophy. 2 children can not support 2 adults in middle - old age. People sometimes die younger than planned

ALL Christian denominations used to preach against artificial birth control; most sold out.

There is no free lunch when it comes to civilization. Western civilization will just have to pony up and either have the children it needs to even have the ability/chance to pass on its values or we will import millions of foreigners who (surprise) will slowly take over. It’s a very simple concept. I know, raising children can be hard work, but that doesnt change any of the facts and we might as well face them instead of confabulating fantasy liberal alternatives.

There would be enough food and shelter on this planet for all if there wasnt so much corruption in ruling class.


39 posted on 10/20/2010 5:20:07 AM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman (Just say no to circular firing squads.)
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To: tbw2

all 3: work longer for less, import workers, and death panels.


40 posted on 10/20/2010 5:23:48 AM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman (Just say no to circular firing squads.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

the biological solution will most definitely work but it takes a long time and there will be a long period of control by the Liberal population planners.

In fact, that is what is happening in America now. The native population as a whole is pro-contraception, pro-homo, laissez-faire or pro-abort. Those of us who believe differently are definitely a minority and if the attitudes keep up, America will continue its transformation even if Barack Obama is not elected dictator for life.

The imported workers (Hispanics and Mulsims) will be duking it out for control in 50 years.

The future belongs to the fertile.


41 posted on 10/20/2010 5:31:29 AM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman (Just say no to circular firing squads.)
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To: Vigilanteman
Japan imports most of its food. In earlier times they grew rice in every possible nook and cranny and still didn't have enough. They developed societal conventions that amounted to an enforced starvation diet.

The people who reside in Manhattan Island also import virtually all of their food. They generally eat once a day ~ and in the long run of history that sort of behavior can lead to some interesting societal conventions if they should start running short of food.

Check Flores Island! Nothing but little tiny people with giant heads all over the place.

42 posted on 10/20/2010 5:43:57 AM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: neverdem
Now we have a great excess of relatively unskilled labor, at least for the jobs left in this country. I'm afraid that recovering from this recession/depression is going to be like the 1930s. It's a great time to make legal immigration only on a skills based criteria with family unification limited and dependent on critically needed skill.

I wish that were so. There are too many groups that stand to benefit from the status quo. The Chamber of Commerce wants more cheap, exploitable labor to drive down US wages; the Dems want more voters; the Catholic Church wants more parishoners; La Raza wants more members; the labor unions want to increase their membership; and on and on it goes.

We are bringing in 125,000 legal foreign workers a month now.

43 posted on 10/20/2010 6:18:58 AM PDT by kabar
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To: truthguy

You nailed it. Demography is destiny. Our immigration policies, even without an amnesty, will make the Dems the permanent majority party and lead us down the path to a third world nation.


44 posted on 10/20/2010 6:21:08 AM PDT by kabar
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; dervish; ...
Thanks neverdem.
Overpopulation panic is back. Concerns about a world too full of "filthy human children" motivated eco-terrorist James Lee when he held employees of the Discovery Channel hostage at gunpoint in September. But the deranged Lee is far from alone when it comes to worrying about overpopulation. The May-June cover of the progressive magazine Mother Jones asked, "Who's to Blame for the Population Crisis?" British journalist Matthew Parris wrote an op-ed in September in the London Times asserting, "If you want to save the planet, stop breeding." Parris further coyly suggested that we study "China's example, for lessons good and bad."
Gosh, it's almost as if there's a private left-wing email list that lets everyone know, "time to write about overpopulation" or whatever their demagogic issue of the week is. This is just a backdoor way (sorry for that expression) of getting the sheep herded back over onto Global Warming Hill, where the grass has been replaced by barbed wire and guard towers.


45 posted on 10/20/2010 6:31:10 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Every time they bring another generation of ignorant, socialist useful idiots out of our public schools, they start with their old, disproved propaganda. This new crop of human robots who have been taught what to think will gobble up this ridiculous nonsense and spew it out on cue until it’s disproved again, and beyond.

And the democrat news cycle continues.


46 posted on 10/20/2010 6:41:22 AM PDT by TheOldLady (Pablo is very wily.)
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To: neverdem
Will their maternal mortality rates and infant mortality rates remain unacceptably high?

Cognitive disconnect.

47 posted on 10/20/2010 6:48:27 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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The local gentry were horrified when they learned that the wogs, oops, I mean, the population of Earth had passed the one billion mark — over 110 years ago — and got all worried about the Malthusian nonsense again. That nonsense never quite goes away, but it’s entirely ex cathedra (that is, not based on actual data) and politically driven.

If we’re going to make sustainable changes in the population growth and pollution, we need to annihilate the billion or so Moslems and just get it over with. The population growth among Moslems will *double* their suicide-bombing coercion-minded single-party-state-loving population in less than forty years, during which time around half of the population of the industrialized world will have died of old age and natural causes.

The one-child population policy of China will be 70 years old in forty years (closer to 80 years old), and has already produced the forty million or so “surplus” men who will have no family to care for them (no siblings, no nieces or nephews, no children or grandchildren); aging parents will have to be cared for by just one child, and that will begin even sooner. Elder care will be an enormous growth industry in China, and much of that labor will probably have to come from war-torn Moslem countries or Asian countries where similar reverse-pyramid population patterns have had less severe consequences.

Consumption Dwarfs Population as Main Environmental Threat
13 Apr 2009: Opinion
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/consumption_dwarfs_population_as_main_environmental_threat/2140/

http://www.overpopulation.org/faq.html
[snip] If fertility remained at current levels, the population would reach the absurd figure of 296 billion in just 150 years. Even if it dropped to 2.5 children per woman and then stopped falling, the population would still reach 28 billion. [end]

Peak Oil, Carrying Capacity and Overshoot:
Population, the Elephant in the Room — Revisited
Posted by Gail the Actuary on September 8, 2010 — 10:30am
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6924
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html
http://www.vspop.org/htm/article01.htm

Big Era Eight
A Half Century of Crisis [get that? A crisis that lasted most of a human lifetime?]
1900-1950 CE
http://worldhistoryforusall.sdsu.edu/eras/era8.php


48 posted on 10/20/2010 6:49:51 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: TheOldLady

There are always those who want to be led, because groupthink appears to magnify their own reach.


49 posted on 10/20/2010 6:52:27 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Having been propagandized myself, I cringe when I think of what these kids will have to go through before the truth dawns on them, if ever.

My “three wishes” fantasy consists of one wish: all government leaders must tell the whole truth. If they open their mouths to tell a lie, nothing comes out, and they can’t breathe until they stop lying, even by mental reservation.

I wish we could drug them all with truth serum.


50 posted on 10/20/2010 6:58:58 AM PDT by TheOldLady (Pablo is very wily.)
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