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Can Israel be Jewish and Democratic?
Wall Street Journal ^ | 10/25/10 | Douglas J. Feith

Posted on 10/25/2010 11:39:31 AM PDT by Nachum

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently asked Palestinian peace negotiators to acknowledge Israel as a Jewish state. Some critics have called this move cynical, because Palestinian leaders are unlikely to offer such an acknowledgment. But others oppose it for a more basic reason: They claim it is antidemocratic.

Israel, so the argument goes, affronts its non-Jewish citizens by identifying itself as a Jewish state and by using traditional religious emblems as official national symbols—for example, the Star of David on its flag.

Along the same lines, various Israeli intellectuals have proposed dropping "Hatikvah" (The Hope) as their country's national anthem, because it refers to the Jewish soul's millenial yearnings for a return to Zion. A few have urged repeal of Israel's longstanding law of return, which gives Jews from any country a right to immigrate and become citizens.

Some Israeli Arabs have advocated that Israel should become a state identified with no particular ethnic or religious group but rather a state of all of its individual citizens. Israelis commonly view this liberal ideal with suspicion, for it has no relation whatever to the political practices of any countries in the Middle East. Also, Azmi Bishara, the principal Israeli Arab proponent of "a state of all of its citizens" and a former member of parliament, outraged many Israelis by supporting Hezbollah against Israel in the 2006 Lebanon war.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: democratic; israel; jewish

1 posted on 10/25/2010 11:39:33 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Oy Veh! I think they call that New York! Jewish and Democratic? I think it will work!


2 posted on 10/25/2010 11:40:56 AM PDT by April Lexington (Study the Constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: April Lexington

G’valt!


3 posted on 10/25/2010 11:42:42 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum
Some Israeli Arabs have advocated that Israel should become a state identified with no particular ethnic or religious group...

Or, they could just cut out the interregnum (so to speak) and go STRAIGHT to adopting sharia law...

4 posted on 10/25/2010 11:45:25 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: Nachum

What other country on the planet has EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of it’s existence under question whilst being derided for breathing? There are attempts afoot to decry Israel as undemocratic (even though the vast majority of Israeli Arabs prefer living in Israel than any other Arab country). Israel needs to focus on the MAIN STUMBLING BLOCK SINCE 1900 - namely, does she have the RIGHT to exist as the homeland for the Jewish people? Those that say no (which is what the Arabs have stated since day 1) can go to Hades while those that are willing to let the Jews alone and TRULY NEGOTIATE can have their views. This is the crux of the conflict...yes or no? Do Jews have the RIGHT to live as Jews in that region or not. So far, the Arab response has been violence and more violence.


5 posted on 10/25/2010 11:49:40 AM PDT by Netz
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To: Nachum

I would ask if you can go to college and become dumber by the day?


6 posted on 10/25/2010 11:49:51 AM PDT by pennyfarmer (Even a RINO will chew its foot off when caught in a trap.)
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To: Nachum
Es gefelt mir!
7 posted on 10/25/2010 11:50:27 AM PDT by April Lexington (Study the Constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: Nachum
Israel shouldn't fear democracy. Theocracy belongs to another century, and not a future century.

Same goes for Iran. Separate religion from government. They have separate purposes.

8 posted on 10/25/2010 11:52:33 AM PDT by Walts Ice Pick
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To: Nachum

Netanyahu’s critics are purposely turning the whole notion of national independence on its head. People declare independence and fight for independence because they want to rule themselves by their own lights and according to their own way of life.

After being handed over to be slaughtered by every country in Europe, the jews decided to seize their national independence. The fact that they have consented to allow citizenship to non-jews living among them does not change the fact that Israel exists in the modern era because jews demanded the right to self-determination, fought for it, and with God’s help took it.

They are a tiny spec of an island of freedom in a muslim sea, and not one of the surrounding countries has ever granted full legal equality to jewish citizens in those countries. In not one of those countries are non-muslims safe in their homes or safe in their jobs. In not one of those countries can someone become a Christian and go on breathing, much less become a jew or even publicly support jews.


9 posted on 10/25/2010 11:53:59 AM PDT by marron
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To: Nachum

Take it up with God.


10 posted on 10/25/2010 11:54:16 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: April Lexington

Tsum leben :)


11 posted on 10/25/2010 11:54:29 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

In a way, this is like asking: can Germany be German and still be democratic. All European nations are nation-states,even Germany though many of its citizens are non-German. Belgium, a kind of exception to the rule, shows what problems are entailed when the people do not belong to the same ethnic group.


12 posted on 10/25/2010 12:01:21 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: Nachum
und tzum glik! :)
13 posted on 10/25/2010 12:05:03 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the Constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: April Lexington

unt, sien mit mazal...


14 posted on 10/25/2010 12:08:07 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum; Mrs. B.S. Roberts

The question REALLY being debated is not whether Israel exist as a Jewish State, nor whether Jews should have a Jewish State.
The crux of the question is really, “Do Israel and the Jews even have a right to exist?”
Answer that one.


15 posted on 10/25/2010 12:13:40 PM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf ( NY Times: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: CaptainAmiigaf

Yes. Now let’s get back to the other two.


16 posted on 10/25/2010 12:19:44 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Nachum
They claim it is antidemocratic.

Democracy is not a fetish nor is it a religious rite. It is a means to an end, it is a means by which civilized people govern themselves.

In a democracy, people agree to share power with their neighbors. It is by means of citizenship laws that people define who they will agree to share power with. Set the rules of citizenship too broadly, such that you include your enemies, or even people who simply don't share your cultural values, and you will vote away in one election the independence your uncles and grandfathers fought and died to give you.

Citizenship should not be granted, ever, to your enemies. It should only be granted to people who want to be one of you and are willing to put their lives on the line right alongside you. Giving citizenship rights to people who don't share your values and don't want to share them, is a suicide pact.

So, should only jews be allowed to hold citizenship? Since it was founded for the purpose of establishing a national homeland for the jews, in their historical homeland, it is silly to imagine anything else. If a non-jew wants to be an Israeli citizen, though, he should at the very least want to be Israeli.

If a muslim wants to be Israeli, and serve in the IDF, and defend Israel against all her enemies, then God bless him. If he sides with her enemies and lends them aid and comfort, he should be stripped of his citizenship and expelled from the country. There are plenty of arab countries to choose from and its pointless to pretend that an arab who supports Hezbollah is an Israeli.

17 posted on 10/25/2010 12:29:44 PM PDT by marron
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To: Nachum

Poland in the ancestral home of the Polish People.

Ireland is the ancestral home of the Irish People.

Taiwan is the ancestral of the Taiwanese.

And so it goes,

We, Jews, are a Nation and a Religion.

Israel, is the ancestral home of the Jewish (Hebrew) People.

Even if the World refuses to recognize us as a Religion (from which the rest of your beliefs spring) it has no choose but to accept us as a distinct Nation- a People.

Israel the Nation State is the home of the Jewish People.

We have outlasted history and you are our enemy at your peril.


18 posted on 10/25/2010 1:05:04 PM PDT by HearMe
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To: Nachum

Poland in the ancestral home of the Polish People.

Ireland is the ancestral home of the Irish People.

Taiwan is the ancestral of the Taiwanese.

And so it goes,

We, Jews, are a Nation and a Religion.

Israel, is the ancestral home of the Jewish (Hebrew) People.

Even if the World refuses to recognize us as a Religion (from which the rest of your beliefs spring) it has no choose but to accept us as a distinct Nation- a People.

Israel the Nation State is the home of the Jewish People.

We have outlasted history and you are our enemy at your peril.


19 posted on 10/25/2010 1:05:18 PM PDT by HearMe
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To: pennyfarmer

Not a good example with colleges giving out degrees in Wymmn’s Studies and the like.


20 posted on 10/25/2010 1:15:14 PM PDT by GunningForTheBuddha ("Corrupt governments from little ACORNs grow. " - seton89)
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To: HearMe
We have outlasted history and you are our enemy at your peril.

What happens when it is the Jewish people that are Israel's worst enemy?
21 posted on 10/25/2010 1:17:31 PM PDT by GunningForTheBuddha ("Corrupt governments from little ACORNs grow. " - seton89)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...

“Israel, so the argument goes, affronts its non-Jewish citizens by identifying itself as a Jewish state and by using traditional religious emblems as official national symbols — for example, the Star of David on its flag.”

Maybe if Israel changed its name to “The Arab Republic of Egypt” or “The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan”...

People who don’t like the flag of Israel should get out of Israel. They should become squatters in Helen Thomas’ house.

Thanks Nachum.


22 posted on 10/25/2010 2:47:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv
People who don’t like the flag of Israel should get out of Israel. They should become squatters in Helen Thomas’ house True!
23 posted on 10/25/2010 2:52:13 PM PDT by ColdOne (GOP. Gutless Old Politicians :^))...../When Obama fails America Wins!)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

An excellent article, unfortunately available only to subscribers.

24 posted on 10/25/2010 5:19:30 PM PDT by SJackson (In wine there is wisdom, In beer there is freedom, In water there is bacteria.)
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To: GunningForTheBuddha

If that ever happens please let us know.


25 posted on 10/25/2010 6:44:15 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Am working on plans for a Knights Templar Community Center next to the Kaaba in Mecca.)
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To: Nachum

There are 22 Arab states, 21 of which are Muslim. No one bats an eye. Egypt opresses Muslims and the Muslim Brotherhood tries to re-impose official Dhimmitude and we give them foreign aid. But Israel reaffirms its status as a Jewish state that recognizes the rights of all inhabitants and the world goes nuts.


26 posted on 10/25/2010 8:06:20 PM PDT by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: GunningForTheBuddha

The Jewish People are not Israel’s enemy.

Certain of our people are sick,...you find that in all populations and all people(s). Ours, seem to just make more noise.


27 posted on 10/26/2010 10:09:03 AM PDT by HearMe
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To: Nachum

“Some Israeli Arabs have advocated that Israel should become a state identified with no particular ethnic or religious group but rather a state of all of its individual citizens. “

Saudi Arabia should lead the way, and separate Mosque from State. Jordan and the PA should abolish the death penalty for anyone who sells land to jooos. Syria should adopt the Napoleonic Code. Turkey, Syria and Iran should stop murdering Kurds/Armenians. And then they can talk to us.


28 posted on 10/26/2010 1:01:20 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 ( They cry "Piece, piece." And there is no peace.)
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