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Army service rifles getting significant upgrades
Stars And Stripes ^ | 10/29/2010 | Dan Blottenberger

Posted on 10/29/2010 10:52:03 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld

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1 posted on 10/29/2010 10:52:06 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

Full auto fire is a waste of ammunition, plus it overheats the weapon to the point of malfunction. The army needs to teach fire discipline like the Marines. The army does a lot of spray and pray.


2 posted on 10/29/2010 10:57:07 PM PDT by Roklok
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To: Roklok

I agree


3 posted on 10/29/2010 10:57:46 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

A US Special Forces soldier armed with a M4A1 Carbine, fitted with an underslung M203 40mm grenade launcher, aimed with a M68 Close Combat Optic red dot sight. This M4A1 also has a AN-PEQ2 and a torch fitted to the Rail Interface System (RIS). US DoD photo


4 posted on 10/29/2010 11:01:23 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: JoeProBono

Thank you for the photo. It looks like a very nice rifle.


5 posted on 10/29/2010 11:04:25 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
I think I'd trust the guy on the ground to decide whether he wanted to fire semi or full and give him that option rather than some pencil necked bean counter who hasn't seen the sun in a decade.

Quite a few of our frontline troops are not on their first deployment to a combat zone so let's let them make the call.

Wonder what the status is of the piston upgrades or is that even in the works? Yeah, silly question.

6 posted on 10/29/2010 11:06:04 PM PDT by Eagles6
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

If I were going into Afghanistan, I’d want a longer barrel and 7.62


7 posted on 10/29/2010 11:06:49 PM PDT by 2111USMC
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To: 2111USMC

I agree.


8 posted on 10/29/2010 11:07:39 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: Roklok

Stitch fire.


9 posted on 10/29/2010 11:11:13 PM PDT by Rannug (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-qH02g4DLI)
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To: 2111USMC

Yup

There’s a very big problem wih that.
We are getting picked of due to our low caliber rifle.


10 posted on 10/29/2010 11:13:08 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: Roklok
Compare:

"... Soldiers in Afghanistan expressed enthusiasm about the improvements, especially the ability to shoot on fully automatic.

“That would be sweet. You could definitely get more lead downrange,” said Sgt. Aaron Billington of the 10th Mountain Division at Kandahar Air Field.

... against:

Adding full-automatic fire mode to the M4 is a huge mistake, said Staff Sgt. Lincoln Dockery, a combat engineer stationed in Bamberg.

"The whole purpose of having riflemen is to accurately engage the enemy,” Dockery said. “With full auto, soldiers will stop aiming and just point, shoot and hope, like the enemy does.”

I don't know what the Army is teaching their elite 10th Mountain Division troops, but it seems like the combat engineers are the ones who know what they're talking about, at least in this case.

Semper Fi.

11 posted on 10/29/2010 11:21:19 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: 2111USMC

If I were going into Afghanistan, I’d want to be in an F/A-18.


12 posted on 10/29/2010 11:22:45 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: mowowie
We have 7 ARs & Mini14's in 223. Finally, I picked up a stag 6.8spc and put an acog Ghost Ring/Red Dot on her. Killed a caribou at over 600 yards this fall. It was hard to use ghost ring at that distance as it covered entire bou. I fired off 5 quick ones, hit the bull twice and he went down; Was using 110 VMax's. I think I could have killed a moose with that 6.8. All in all, I like the light weight, small rifle, and no kick. If I had a regular cross hair scope on that 6.8, I could hit the kill zone everytime at any reasonable distance.

I'll take my 30-378 for those thousand yard shots, but I'd prefer the smaller calibers for close up.

13 posted on 10/29/2010 11:29:02 PM PDT by Eska
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To: Roklok
The army does a lot of spray and pray.

Absolutely...ans its been ingrained for 40+ years.

14 posted on 10/29/2010 11:34:11 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus - Domari Nolo)
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

As far as I can tell from the other side of the world, Afghanistan isn’t a “carbine” war like Iraq could be called. Rifles with a high-powered cartridge accurate over an extended range seem more useful.

Armchair opinion but nevertheless, an M-14 derivative with a lighter stock strikes me as more in line with the sort of combat we see in this theater.


15 posted on 10/29/2010 11:40:33 PM PDT by tlb
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To: tlb

The SCAR-H would seem to be a better choice, though.


16 posted on 10/29/2010 11:47:54 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Roklok

My dad, who is a Marine Vietnam combat vet with one ground tour, pointed out that there *are* times when you just want to keep the other guy’s head down and without FA it’s quite a lot harder to do that.


17 posted on 10/29/2010 11:49:23 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Roklok

You’re right - how much ammo do you want to hump over that terrain? I thought the general movement was away from full-auto fire.


18 posted on 10/29/2010 11:52:02 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Nov 2 is coming...)
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To: JoeProBono

{expletive} - how nose-heavy is that beast anyway?


19 posted on 10/29/2010 11:53:07 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Nov 2 is coming...)
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To: ThunderSleeps

The M4 carbine is a family of firearms tracing its lineage back to earlier carbine versions of the M16, all based on the original AR-15 designed by Eugene Stoner and made by ArmaLite. It is a shorter and lighter version of the M16A2 assault rifle, with 80% parts commonality


20 posted on 10/29/2010 11:55:48 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: Spktyr

I’ve shot a SCAR-H and it is very nice. Accurate, light, ambidextrous. The stock fully folds which is sweet for getting in and out of vehicles or aircraft.


21 posted on 10/29/2010 11:56:42 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

Make mine an M-14...


22 posted on 10/30/2010 12:00:40 AM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68

I LOVE THE M-14.


23 posted on 10/30/2010 12:01:37 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68; ErnstStavroBlofeld

The M14 was developed from a long line of experimental weapons based upon the M1 Garand


24 posted on 10/30/2010 12:14:07 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: JoeProBono

I have the M1-A variant and its awesome.


25 posted on 10/30/2010 12:15:31 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

Springfield M1A standard rifle equipped with an UltiMAK prototype M8 optic mount and the excellent Leupold 2.5x Intermediate Eye Relief (I.E.R.) "Scout" scope.


26 posted on 10/30/2010 12:22:12 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: JoeProBono

I dont have the scope because I really do not need it. I have been a Springfield Armory fan for almost 17 years.


27 posted on 10/30/2010 12:25:02 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
I have a "Dirt Cheap Rifle"

mosin nagant sniper rifle

28 posted on 10/30/2010 12:32:11 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: JoeProBono

I like the Mosin Nagant too. Those have been in the Russian arsenal sionce 1891. The first official design was in 1889. It has a 7.62mm cartridge.


29 posted on 10/30/2010 12:34:17 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

30 posted on 10/30/2010 12:39:15 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
I'll never understand why they stick with a damned .22 cal.

“mouse gun” and think it will reach out a half a mile!

Ain't gunna happen,,,

Even a 22-250 or a 220 Swift is worthless at that range,,,

They sure as hell won't shoot through the bushes either...

31 posted on 10/30/2010 12:39:40 AM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: JoeProBono

The 7.62 mm bullet is a powerful bullet. I had a SKS and I used to shoot watermelons and once the bullet hit the watermelon it burst.


32 posted on 10/30/2010 12:41:25 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: JoeProBono

That one will get the job done...


33 posted on 10/30/2010 12:43:25 AM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68

Finnish made cartridge clip for Mosin-Nagant rifles


34 posted on 10/30/2010 12:51:17 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: Roklok

The first three shot are on target, the rest end up in the ceiling.
Three round burst are best, or better training and semi auto.


35 posted on 10/30/2010 1:07:51 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: JoeProBono

IIRC that round holds the record for sniper kills,,,WWII,,,

Stalingrad...


36 posted on 10/30/2010 1:09:29 AM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68

37 posted on 10/30/2010 1:13:48 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: Yorlik803

IMHO this is a matter of training,,,

When fired from the assault position the stock is held

under the strong side and the weak hand is “stiff armed”

using the sling,,,

Hand on top of the weapon pushing it down,,,

This will even give you control of an M-14 or anything else,,,

Sadly most guys only learn this in combat...


38 posted on 10/30/2010 1:29:16 AM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: JoeProBono

Great movie,,,

I’ve got that one on tape...


39 posted on 10/30/2010 1:31:13 AM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: JoeProBono

Why the goggles? Looks like a dive mask.


40 posted on 10/30/2010 2:55:52 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (the way to win this game is not to play)
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

I have an SKS long barrel. I never have used it. Did you like it?


41 posted on 10/30/2010 2:58:59 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (the way to win this game is not to play)
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To: The KG9 Kid
" If I were going into Afghanistan, I’d want to be in an F/A-18. "

Or being in a A-10 Thunderbolt.
42 posted on 10/30/2010 3:40:27 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Eagles6
"I think I'd trust the guy on the ground to decide whether he wanted to fire semi or full"

You are so right. If I had to kick down a door and deal with a room full of POS's I'd want the full auto function of a minigun!

43 posted on 10/30/2010 3:47:21 AM PDT by Dacus943
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To: screaminsunshine

Lots of brass and debris flying around in cqb. Don’t want to lose vision when something hits you in the eye.


44 posted on 10/30/2010 5:18:43 AM PDT by Rammer
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To: The KG9 Kid

Agreed.


45 posted on 10/30/2010 6:13:11 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: JoeProBono

Interesting.

I just now noticed that the bolt handle is on the wrong side in that picture.


46 posted on 10/30/2010 6:22:40 AM PDT by 2111USMC
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To: The KG9 Kid

We need everyone to qualify as a Sniper.


47 posted on 10/30/2010 7:16:23 AM PDT by Rappini ("Pro deo et Patria.)
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To: Dacus943

Exactly.


48 posted on 10/30/2010 9:44:31 AM PDT by Eagles6
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To: tlb
"Armchair opinion but nevertheless, an M-14 derivative with a lighter stock strikes me as more in line with the sort of combat we see in this theater.

Yeah, too bad billy bob clinton had them all destroyed rather than demilled to semi only and sold to the public through the CMP.

His administration feared an armed, patriotic citizenry.

Sorta like obama and the Garands and M1 Carbines that S Korea wants to send back.

49 posted on 10/30/2010 9:54:45 AM PDT by Eagles6
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To: Rappini

Check out the Appleseed Project.


50 posted on 10/30/2010 10:01:31 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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