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Iran, Venezuela plan to build rival to Panama Canal
Haaretz.com ^ | 13 Nov 2010 | Shlomo Papirblat

Posted on 11/13/2010 6:59:02 AM PST by mandaladon

The recent border dispute between Costa Rica and Nicaragua is a sign of an ambitious plan by Venezuela, Iran and Nicaragua to create a "Nicaragua Canal" linking the Atlantic and Pacific oceans that would rival the existing Panama Canal.

Costa Rica says that last week Nicaraguan troops entered its territory along the San Juan River – the border between the two nations. Nicaragua had been conducting channel deepening work on the river when the incident occurred. Sources in Latin America have told Haaretz that the border incident and the military pressure on Costa Rica, a country without an army, are the first step in a plan formulated by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, with funding and assistance from Iran, to create a substitute for the strategically and economically important Panama Canal.

The plan has aroused concern in Washington, and the U.S. has started behind the scenes efforts to foil it.

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: canal; caribbean; centralamerica; china; columbia; costarica; danielortega; earthquake; earthquakes; hknd; hkndgroup; iran; israel; isthmiancanal; lakenicaragua; miguelceballos; nicaragua; noemisanin; panama; panamacanal; theodoreroosevelt; venezuela; wangjing; waronterror; xinweitelecom
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"Sources tell Haaretz that the recent Nicaragua-Costa Rica border incident was a trial balloon by the creators of a plan to build a new canal in Latin America." Obama better keep an eye on these clowns.
1 posted on 11/13/2010 6:59:08 AM PST by mandaladon
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To: mandaladon

Sounds like they plan to turn Costa Rica into A CANAL.


2 posted on 11/13/2010 7:02:19 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: mandaladon

Plowshare lives!


3 posted on 11/13/2010 7:06:31 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Pablo lives jubtabulously!)
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To: mandaladon

Having a backup canal sounds like a GOOD thing.


4 posted on 11/13/2010 7:08:33 AM PST by PapaBear3625 ("It is only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything" -- Fight Club)
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To: mandaladon

IIRC, the original plan was to build a sea level canal across Nicaragua. It was 86ed when Nicaragua issued postage stamps commemorating a huge volcanic eruption near the proposed rout.

Opponents of this route sent letters to every congress critter and made a point of calling attention to the stamp.

(They neglected to mention that the eruption happened thousands of years ago)...


5 posted on 11/13/2010 7:12:22 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: mandaladon
"...with funding and assistance from Iran..."

Know and keep in mind that Iran has the same GDP as the state of Alabama.

6 posted on 11/13/2010 7:13:21 AM PST by blam
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To: PapaBear3625
Having a backup canal sounds like a GOOD thing.

One would think that the Chinese would be all over it.

It would certainly expedite shipping to Atlantic markets.

BUT the narrow Panama Canal (which they own) cannot handle US warships (aircraft carriers) so there is a strategic value to keeping the US Atlantic fleet from rapidly responding to any Chinese action.

7 posted on 11/13/2010 7:16:53 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: mandaladon
Obama better keep an eye on these clowns.

Come on. The idea that these three countries combined could build a second canal is laughable.

8 posted on 11/13/2010 7:18:02 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

“Come on. The idea that these three countries combined could build a second canal is laughable.”

Interesting excuse to have a couple thousand Iranian RevGuards within striking distance of the real canal.


9 posted on 11/13/2010 7:21:54 AM PST by PLMerite (Fix the FR clock. It's time.)
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To: PLMerite

Wasn’t Jimmy Carter who gave away the canal? Plus the Monroe doctrine. Now we have Venezuela playing footsie with the new Hitler and arming up.


10 posted on 11/13/2010 7:26:32 AM PST by Oldexpat
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To: mandaladon

is there a map of the route it will take? I think its a good idea, if they want to build it


11 posted on 11/13/2010 7:28:24 AM PST by 4rcane
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To: Non-Sequitur
Come on. The idea that these three countries combined could build a second canal is laughable.

My first thoughts as well. With their combined technology and engineering prowess, at best they'll end up with a half-finished ditch, and have to abandon it early in the project when they bankrupt what's left of their socialist/totalitarian economies to fund it.

12 posted on 11/13/2010 7:30:49 AM PST by MCH
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To: blam
Know and keep in mind that Iran has the same GDP as the state of Alabama.

And, does not have the technical expertise to refine their own oil into gasoline in sufficient quantities to support their own domestic demand. They import a large portion of the gasoline they use, despite sitting on top of one of the world's richest oil fields. Iran being the headliner on a project to build a new canal across Nicaragua? I'd say the chances of success are zero....then throw Chavez into the mix? Pass the popcorn.....

13 posted on 11/13/2010 7:32:10 AM PST by Thermalseeker (Stop the insanity - Flush Congress!)
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To: null and void
BUT the narrow Panama Canal (which they own) cannot handle US warships (aircraft carriers) so there is a strategic value to keeping the US Atlantic fleet from rapidly responding to any Chinese action.

The Panama Canal is being expanded, with wider locks. Estimated completion: 2014.

http://www.pancanal.com/eng/expansion/index.html

14 posted on 11/13/2010 7:33:11 AM PST by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground - the Hogwarts of Stupid.)
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To: mandaladon

But, but...has the UN signed off on allowing the horrific, apocalyptical environment damage this new canal would surely do to the delicately balanced ecosystems and micro-ecosystems of this unique, vulnerable area of Mother Earth....?


15 posted on 11/13/2010 7:37:05 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: mandaladon

Obama keep an eye on these clowns? He and his “team” don’t even know where Costa Rica is located on a map. It took them several weeks to fine Honduras when its government was in turmoil.


16 posted on 11/13/2010 7:39:15 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: null and void
The eruption of the volcano may have happened 10,000 years ago but Nicaragua has had many devastation earthquakes. I hope they build it and then the big one hits.
17 posted on 11/13/2010 7:41:31 AM PST by Americanexpat
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To: La Lydia

Commies get EIR waivers every time.


18 posted on 11/13/2010 7:58:59 AM PST by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: Cheburashka

That was painful.

After enough digging I was able to extract the little factoid that even expanded the Panama Canal can’t quite accommodate a Nimitz class Aircraft Carrier., unless you want to scrape bottom the whole length...


19 posted on 11/13/2010 8:03:12 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: mandaladon

LOL. Chavez & the mad mullahs to add something economically productive to the world?

I give this 1 million to one against. These people only know how to kill, steal & destroy.


20 posted on 11/13/2010 8:07:23 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass
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To: Cheburashka

Thanks..will it accomodate the US CVNs and the largest container ships?


21 posted on 11/13/2010 8:09:47 AM PST by ken5050 (I don't need sex.....the government screws me every day..)
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To: Thermalseeker

Building this canal would easier than the Panama canal since it would be using the San Juan river and it would be at sea level. Check out the map.


22 posted on 11/13/2010 8:11:34 AM PST by mandaladon
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To: ken5050

According to Null and Void, above, no.


23 posted on 11/13/2010 8:15:06 AM PST by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground - the Hogwarts of Stupid.)
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To: null and void

My granddaughter lives in Costa Rica—they are very upset about this and realize that because they have no army, they are going to have to depend upon the kindness of others to stop the Nicaraguans.

As a side note, Nicaraguans are despised by Ticos. If someone is living like a bum or commits petty crime, they are automatically Nicaraguans.

I have read that there are all kinds of problems that go along with the building of a sea-level canal. One is that the tides of the Caribbean and the Pacific are different thus causing a current in the canal. Another problem is Pacific flora and fauna being introduced into the Atlantic and vice versa. Doubt if Venezuela, Iran and Nicaragua are going to issue an environmental impact study.


24 posted on 11/13/2010 8:19:09 AM PST by hanamizu
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To: Cheburashka

Seems silly..though I don’t know what the engireering parfameters are. But it you’re gonna build a new canal..you’d want to be able to handle the huge new container ships...they’d be willing to pay a fortune in transit fees..also, re the border ncident and the river, I recall reading somewheres that the PC expansion had to be redesigned..( the locks) because there isn’t enough water in Gatun lake to handle everything..


25 posted on 11/13/2010 8:22:25 AM PST by ken5050 (I don't need sex.....the government screws me every day..)
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To: GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

It seems to me that someone should ping you to this thread...


26 posted on 11/13/2010 8:28:57 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: hanamizu
My granddaughter lives in Costa Rica—they are very upset about this and realize that because they have no army, they are going to have to depend upon the kindness of others to stop the Nicaraguans.

Not to worry, I'm sure obama will oppose Amadinajhad and Chavéz...

27 posted on 11/13/2010 8:35:30 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: ken5050

Unless you’re willing to take the financial hit to exclude supercarriers.


28 posted on 11/13/2010 8:36:48 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: mandaladon

Governments come and go so we have no idea who will hate us and who will like us in 30 years. Having a second canal, despite the environmental issues, sounds like a good idea. As Americans, we should be wary of any monopolies, such as now exists with Panama.

Pros:
1. A new canal may be able to accommodate giant ships and our aircraft carriers.
2. The new canal may not need locks, which will speed up transport.
3. Competition with Panama will lower prices.
4. Someone else is building it, which complies with Carter’s promise to the Panamanians that we would not be involved with building a competing canal.
5. Someone else is paying for it.


29 posted on 11/13/2010 8:51:52 AM PST by Rybashka
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To: hanamizu
Nicaraguans are rotten little trolls, almost to a person.

They're like the dwarfs in the Lord of the Rings movies, only less loyal and industrious. And not as well animated.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

30 posted on 11/13/2010 8:54:48 AM PST by The Comedian (I enjoy progressives, especially in a light cream sauce.)
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To: The Comedian
Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!
31 posted on 11/13/2010 9:07:29 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: mandaladon

Some where in my stuff I have a map of a US Navy study of a canal via Nicaragua made many years ago.

Talk and maps are cheap. Ability and action are costly

Neither Venezuela nor Iran are maritime nations


32 posted on 11/13/2010 9:13:20 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: mandaladon

Some where in my stuff I have a map of a US Navy study of a canal via Nicaragua made many years ago.

Talk and maps are cheap. Ability and action are costly

Neither Venezuela nor Iran are maritime nations


33 posted on 11/13/2010 9:13:32 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: PLMerite
Interesting excuse to have a couple thousand Iranian RevGuards within striking distance of the real canal.

Iran doesn't have the ability to supply a combat force outside of its borders. Neither does Chavez.

34 posted on 11/13/2010 9:22:54 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: mandaladon
What are they going to pay for it with? The Venezuelan economy is going down the toilet and Iran, in spite of its oil wealth, has to import gasoline back from countries that have the infrastructure to refine it. Good luck to ya.
35 posted on 11/13/2010 9:27:44 AM PST by ExpatCanuck
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To: null and void
"BUT the narrow Panama Canal (which they own)....

Uhhhh....no.....they don't own it.

36 posted on 11/13/2010 9:39:57 AM PST by diogenes ghost
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To: diogenes ghost

Correct. Control both ends of.


37 posted on 11/13/2010 9:46:28 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: mandaladon

If it were that easy, the first canal would have been built there.


38 posted on 11/13/2010 10:38:11 AM PST by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: null and void

Hi, null and void. Good to hear from you.

The huge mistake/lie I found in this article was the following:

“The transit fees paid by the ships and other canal-related activities account for 75 percent of the annual revenues of Panama’s economy.”

All the fees the Canal makes is plowed right back into the Canal for maintenance, purchase new expensive equipment, etc.

The Canal is expensive to run and maintain. Not one penny goes outside of it. We Americans are also surprised there is no graft.

I had a good laugh when I got into the article: Venezuela, Iran, and Nicaragua and Mr. Pastora are going to make this happen. With what money? Building canals and maintaining them do not come cheap.

A Freeper above got it right about the tides. Because of the Bay of Panama, the tides on the Pacific side run a great deal higher and lower than the ties on the Atlanic side which are just a matter of 3 feet or so on the Atlantic. (I am not familiar with the tides in Nicaragua and Costa Rica or what kind of bays they have if any….I just haven’t studied it. We couldn’t have just cut through the cordillera making it a sea level canal. Further, even then, seawater running down the middle of the country would have been a disaster.

Even when they started to build the Canal, no plan was yet in place whether it was going to be sea level or otherwise.

Panama does not have a standing army either. But I promise you, if anybody from the outside looks at the Panama Canal with hungry eyes, the U.S. will on them like white on rice.

Forgive me if you find errors in my post. I just haven’t been feeling well for several days.

My best to you.

P.S.

If I find some articles about this on the Panama side, I will share them with you.


39 posted on 11/13/2010 1:35:06 PM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: The Comedian

That’s a pretty racist comment. Not everyone is the same.


40 posted on 11/13/2010 3:05:52 PM PST by mandaladon
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To: mandaladon
That’s a pretty racist comment. Not everyone is the same.

How long did you live in Costa Rica? How many Nicaraguans did you know?

And Nicaraguan isn't a race, it's a nationality. I'm not racist, I'm a culturist. Their culture is disgusting, and every single one of them that I encountered conformed to their culture.

You want to know how disgusting Nicaraguans are?

*Mexico* won't let them in.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

41 posted on 11/13/2010 3:23:56 PM PST by The Comedian (I enjoy progressives, especially in a light cream sauce.)
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To: The Comedian

Well I lived in Costa Rica for over ten years, I’ve known thousands of Nicaraguans some pretty fine people and some bad ones.I also have known many Ticos some fine ones and some terrible ones.

I also lived in five different countries were I encountered the same experience.

Your comment certainly can be described as xenophobic which is as bad as being racist, and I take offense because I was born in Nicaragua. I came to the US legally and became a citizen. I served in the military for 21 years including one year in Viet Nam...so I guess that still makes me a disgusting human being.


42 posted on 11/13/2010 6:08:52 PM PST by mandaladon
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To: Non-Sequitur

“Iran doesn’t have the ability to supply a combat force outside of its borders. Neither does Chavez.”

I dunno, a brigade-sized unit disguised as “volunteer laborers” working on this “canal” would be within suicide range of Panama.


43 posted on 11/13/2010 6:18:38 PM PST by PLMerite (Fix the FR clock. It's time.)
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To: mandaladon
Your comment certainly can be described as xenophobic

Wrong. It can be taken exactly as it was rendered: My experience with Nicaraguan culture, and its members, has been hideous. Xenophobia is fear of the new or unknown. There is nothing new or unknown to me about Nicaraguan culture. I have no fear of Nicaraguan culture, I just can't stand it.

Good for you for leaving that useless culture in favor of the superior American civilization. Excellent choice. And thanks for serving.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

44 posted on 11/13/2010 6:54:03 PM PST by The Comedian (I enjoy progressives, especially in a light cream sauce.)
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To: The Comedian

“There is nothing new or unknown to me about Nicaraguan culture.” so you know all there is to know about Nicaraguan culture. Have you heard of Ruben Dario?

Perhaps you may want to check out the complete definition of xenophobia.

xenophobia: “hatred” or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture.

I am glad you feel “superior”


45 posted on 11/13/2010 7:06:08 PM PST by mandaladon
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To: mandaladon
You're welcome.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

46 posted on 11/13/2010 7:18:31 PM PST by The Comedian (I enjoy progressives, especially in a light cream sauce.)
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To: mandaladon

Obama the Traitor will help Chubby Hugo.

We are the Ones that will have to keep an eye on both.

Obozo already tried to reinstate a leftie in Honduras who had been legally removed for his actions. Then paid-off Lula to put Mel up in the embassy.


47 posted on 11/13/2010 10:44:57 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
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To: mandaladon
Which sea level will they use, the Atlantic or the Pacific. I forget which one has the higher but IIRC, the Atlantic is a decent amount higher than the Pacific Ocean. True, they would only need one series of locks, but they would still me necessary.
48 posted on 11/14/2010 4:12:48 AM PST by bsaunders
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To: mandaladon
A U.S. State Department official told Haaretz's Washington correspondent Natasha Mozgovaya on Wednesday that the U.S. is not aware of any plans to build a new canal in Latin America.
Just in case you had any doubts, here it is: solid, iron-clad proof that the new canal is on the drawing boards.
49 posted on 11/14/2010 4:28:48 AM PST by samtheman
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To: null and void

The canal doesn’t have to accommodate an aircraft carrier, it just has to let supplies through. War is about logistics. An aircraft carrier would be too vulnerable there anyway.


50 posted on 11/14/2010 4:39:57 AM PST by Styria
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