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China's 'State Capitalism' Sparks a Global Backlash
WSJ ^ | 16 Nov 2010 | JASON DEAN, ANDREW BROWNE And SHAI OSTER

Posted on 11/16/2010 3:59:14 AM PST by Palter

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To: Will88
Cheap labor is the major factor that has caused the export of US jobs and the outsourcing of US jobs, beginning in the 1950s.

Define cheap labor for me? What's the trigger point at which labor rates alone cause you to leave America?

Also, what is lax regulation?

41 posted on 11/16/2010 4:32:45 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
Define cheap labor for me? What's the trigger point at which labor rates alone cause you to leave America?

Lol, I guess when a US firm can export jobs to labor that is less than 10%, or even 5% of what was being paid in the US, then that can be defined as cheap labor, very cheap labor. And those reductions were realized in China for years, and can be realized in Vietnam and Cambodia and other poor nations.

The working conditions in China's state owned industries definitely qualify as lax regulations.

But this is a waste of time and you seem to know next to nothing about international labor conditions, so why are you even wasting time in this thread?

No interest in continuing this pointless exchange. And you should ask others on here about lax regulation. Many believe that unreasonable regulation in the US is the main, if not the only reason jobs are exported.

42 posted on 11/16/2010 5:08:39 PM PST by Will88
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To: 1010RD

Here’s an article that will help you learn about cheap labor. The minimum wage in China was recently increased - to almost $200.00 per month. Looks like pay is closer to $210.00 or so in Shanghai. I know it was around $160 a few years back.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_535474.html

Would you agree that that is cheap labor???

But these unreasonable wage demands in China have already begun to move some plants to Vietnam, Cambodia and other places where pay is more reasonable. China is no longer the rock bottom cheapest.

Google: “China minimum wage” to become even better informed.


43 posted on 11/16/2010 5:20:20 PM PST by Will88
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To: Will88

These Wiki figures look pretty accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country


44 posted on 11/16/2010 5:27:04 PM PST by Will88
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To: Will88

Have you shared your stunning observation with the EPA? In your expert opinion, large operations do not create dust?


45 posted on 11/17/2010 5:17:16 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1010RD
Many believe that unreasonable regulation in the US is the main, if not the only reason jobs are exported.

Because many manufacturing facilities have paved driveways, dontcha' know.

46 posted on 11/17/2010 5:19:17 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Have you shared your stunning observation with the EPA? In your expert opinion, large operations do not create dust?

Direct your inane nonsense elsewhere.

47 posted on 11/17/2010 6:09:03 AM PST by Will88
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To: Will88

Just admit you don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and all will be fine.


48 posted on 11/17/2010 6:15:48 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy; Will88

Leave poor Will alone. He still thinks an increased trade deficit leads to an increased budget deficit.


49 posted on 11/17/2010 6:30:27 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Protectionists find regulation does not cost jobs
EPA regulations concerning dust 'just paper,' have no effect on long-term growth

WASHINGTON, D.C.--Citing an internet study that claims manufacturers have paved driveways, advocates of higher wages for workers today claimed . . . .


50 posted on 11/17/2010 6:42:11 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Just admit you don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and all will be fine.

Lol, you are the last person on FR to tell anyone they don't know what they are talking about. And I see your tag team buddy, and your number one competitor as the most clueless poster on FR, has showed up to help you out - as usual.

Strange how that happens.

Maybe you'd like to again regal the readers at FR with your understanding of the causes of the Great Depression. Tell us all about Smoot-Hawley and ignore the Fed policies that reduced the money supply by 30%.

Carry on, boys.

51 posted on 11/17/2010 7:45:30 AM PST by Will88
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To: Will88

Still think an increased trade deficit leads to an increased budget deficit? Still unable to explain how?


52 posted on 11/17/2010 8:17:20 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Palter
Most of this is spend on reverse engineering what they steal!
53 posted on 11/17/2010 8:21:44 AM PST by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Heading, with terror and slaughter return!)
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To: Will88

I mean specifically what is cheap labor? You were a controller for companies with employees, no?

At what price point was it worth it to go outside the country for labor?


54 posted on 11/17/2010 2:37:32 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
At what price point was it worth it to go outside the country for labor?

No company I worked for moved overseas. And there is no exact answer to your question, but many textile plants and sewing plants that paid $8.00 per hour, or less, left the US for cheap labor in Mexico and Asia. Very little left of the textile industry in the US. Those moves happened mostly in the '80s and '90s, at least in areas I'm familiar with. - It's not just companies with expensive union labor that have moved, far from it.

And I know the wages in China ten or so years ago were around $.50 per hour and less. Even cheaper when the first US plants began moving there. And there is still plenty of labor around the world available for less than $1.00 per hour.

55 posted on 11/17/2010 3:07:02 PM PST by Will88
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To: Will88
Strange how that happens.

Strange to you, maybe. I just happen to be a big fan of poking people who say moronic things on the internet. Like, responding (to an observation that we are over-regulating ourselves by regulating dust) that people have paved driveways. I mean, how stupid is that?

By way of example, the last manufacturer I worked for had about 30 acres of gravel down. We generated lots of dust moving things around.

56 posted on 11/17/2010 3:46:43 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Will88

One more thing: I’ve never been able to find an accurate number regarding our textile industry, in billions of dollars. Do you have one?


57 posted on 11/17/2010 4:06:08 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Strange to you, maybe. I just happen to be a big fan of poking people who say moronic things on the internet.

Your problem is you don't respond to what people actually say. I said that municipalities often leave their industrial parks with no layout and no paved roads until the first firm builds in the park. Then they lay out the first roads and pave them. I also said I'd never seen an industrial park on (alongside) an unpaved road.

None of that had anything to do with that EPA regulation you mentioned, and I said nothing to disagree with the point you made. Your point just had nothing to do with anything I said. The moronic things you see on the internet and love to respond to are your own moronic misinterpretations of what others say.

58 posted on 11/17/2010 4:08:15 PM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy
One more thing: I’ve never been able to find an accurate number regarding our textile industry, in billions of dollars. Do you have one?

Do you mean an accurate number for the textile production that is still in the US? Or maybe some history over a few decades?

I don't have any numbers but they could probably be found. I could provide you with a list of ten or more plants that once operated near me, but longer do. Either moved overseas or just went out of business.

59 posted on 11/17/2010 4:12:27 PM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy
And, I'll give you a link that might be worth scanning. It's long and concerns Eisenhower's trade policies toward Japan. I've posted now and then that much of our trade policy had far more to do with foreign policy, and with building up a Cold War ally than with economics.

Many US firms never wanted to leave the US, but cheap imports gradually forced many of them to seek lower costs.

So much of our trade policy has been politically motivated, not economically motivated. But the huge access to the US market given to Japan (with next to nothing in return) set all sorts of dislocations and corporate strategies in motion that no one actually wanted during the 1950s and '60s.

The Eisenhower administration and the demise of GATT: dancing with Pandora

The primary international concern of top officials in the Eisenhower administration was to counteract the spread of communism, especially in Europe and the Far East. Both Eisenhower and his Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, viewed the expansion of international trade as a vital tool for integrating non-communist countries with the United States and also strengthening the war-torn economies in Europe and Asia. For these reasons, the United States was a major force behind the promotion of GATT and Japan's inclusion in the agreement.

The domestic US economy and the standard of living of particularly lower skilled workers in the US has seldom been a top priority (but we do send the lower skilled a few hundred billion annually in government programs as, in reality, low wage subsidies).

But that long article is fairly interesting history to scan through.

60 posted on 11/17/2010 4:33:57 PM PST by Will88
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