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China's 'State Capitalism' Sparks a Global Backlash
WSJ ^ | 16 Nov 2010 | JASON DEAN, ANDREW BROWNE And SHAI OSTER

Posted on 11/16/2010 3:59:14 AM PST by Palter

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To: 1rudeboy
Just admit you don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and all will be fine.

Lol, you are the last person on FR to tell anyone they don't know what they are talking about. And I see your tag team buddy, and your number one competitor as the most clueless poster on FR, has showed up to help you out - as usual.

Strange how that happens.

Maybe you'd like to again regal the readers at FR with your understanding of the causes of the Great Depression. Tell us all about Smoot-Hawley and ignore the Fed policies that reduced the money supply by 30%.

Carry on, boys.

51 posted on 11/17/2010 7:45:30 AM PST by Will88
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To: Will88

Still think an increased trade deficit leads to an increased budget deficit? Still unable to explain how?


52 posted on 11/17/2010 8:17:20 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Palter
Most of this is spend on reverse engineering what they steal!
53 posted on 11/17/2010 8:21:44 AM PST by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Heading, with terror and slaughter return!)
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To: Will88

I mean specifically what is cheap labor? You were a controller for companies with employees, no?

At what price point was it worth it to go outside the country for labor?


54 posted on 11/17/2010 2:37:32 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
At what price point was it worth it to go outside the country for labor?

No company I worked for moved overseas. And there is no exact answer to your question, but many textile plants and sewing plants that paid $8.00 per hour, or less, left the US for cheap labor in Mexico and Asia. Very little left of the textile industry in the US. Those moves happened mostly in the '80s and '90s, at least in areas I'm familiar with. - It's not just companies with expensive union labor that have moved, far from it.

And I know the wages in China ten or so years ago were around $.50 per hour and less. Even cheaper when the first US plants began moving there. And there is still plenty of labor around the world available for less than $1.00 per hour.

55 posted on 11/17/2010 3:07:02 PM PST by Will88
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To: Will88
Strange how that happens.

Strange to you, maybe. I just happen to be a big fan of poking people who say moronic things on the internet. Like, responding (to an observation that we are over-regulating ourselves by regulating dust) that people have paved driveways. I mean, how stupid is that?

By way of example, the last manufacturer I worked for had about 30 acres of gravel down. We generated lots of dust moving things around.

56 posted on 11/17/2010 3:46:43 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Will88

One more thing: I’ve never been able to find an accurate number regarding our textile industry, in billions of dollars. Do you have one?


57 posted on 11/17/2010 4:06:08 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Strange to you, maybe. I just happen to be a big fan of poking people who say moronic things on the internet.

Your problem is you don't respond to what people actually say. I said that municipalities often leave their industrial parks with no layout and no paved roads until the first firm builds in the park. Then they lay out the first roads and pave them. I also said I'd never seen an industrial park on (alongside) an unpaved road.

None of that had anything to do with that EPA regulation you mentioned, and I said nothing to disagree with the point you made. Your point just had nothing to do with anything I said. The moronic things you see on the internet and love to respond to are your own moronic misinterpretations of what others say.

58 posted on 11/17/2010 4:08:15 PM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy
One more thing: I’ve never been able to find an accurate number regarding our textile industry, in billions of dollars. Do you have one?

Do you mean an accurate number for the textile production that is still in the US? Or maybe some history over a few decades?

I don't have any numbers but they could probably be found. I could provide you with a list of ten or more plants that once operated near me, but longer do. Either moved overseas or just went out of business.

59 posted on 11/17/2010 4:12:27 PM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy
And, I'll give you a link that might be worth scanning. It's long and concerns Eisenhower's trade policies toward Japan. I've posted now and then that much of our trade policy had far more to do with foreign policy, and with building up a Cold War ally than with economics.

Many US firms never wanted to leave the US, but cheap imports gradually forced many of them to seek lower costs.

So much of our trade policy has been politically motivated, not economically motivated. But the huge access to the US market given to Japan (with next to nothing in return) set all sorts of dislocations and corporate strategies in motion that no one actually wanted during the 1950s and '60s.

The Eisenhower administration and the demise of GATT: dancing with Pandora

The primary international concern of top officials in the Eisenhower administration was to counteract the spread of communism, especially in Europe and the Far East. Both Eisenhower and his Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, viewed the expansion of international trade as a vital tool for integrating non-communist countries with the United States and also strengthening the war-torn economies in Europe and Asia. For these reasons, the United States was a major force behind the promotion of GATT and Japan's inclusion in the agreement.

The domestic US economy and the standard of living of particularly lower skilled workers in the US has seldom been a top priority (but we do send the lower skilled a few hundred billion annually in government programs as, in reality, low wage subsidies).

But that long article is fairly interesting history to scan through.

60 posted on 11/17/2010 4:33:57 PM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy

The data seems to be pretty scattered out at the Census Bureau, but here is some basic data for 2009 and YTD 2010:

http://www.census.gov/manufacturing/m3/prel/pdf/table1p.pdf

That came from this page, under “Full Report Highlights”, the first drop down, Table 1.

http://www.census.gov/manufacturing/m3/

Logging off for tonight.


61 posted on 11/17/2010 5:02:10 PM PST by Will88
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To: Will88
None of that had anything to do with that EPA regulation you mentioned, and I said nothing to disagree with the point you made.

I've seen enough of the way protectionists argue, so I agree with your observation that, when a point is made, a protectionist ignores it and tries to change the subject (or otherwise).

62 posted on 11/18/2010 5:54:55 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Will88

So would you say, the “[v]ery little left of the textile industry in the US,” manages to produce roughly 5 billion dollar’s worth of product per year?


63 posted on 11/18/2010 5:59:57 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
I've seen enough of the way protectionists argue, so I agree with your observation that, when a point is made, a protectionist ignores it and tries to change the subject (or otherwise).

As I've already said, your point was irrelevant to anything I had said. Pointless points seems to be a specialty of yours and a few others.

64 posted on 11/18/2010 6:54:51 AM PST by Will88
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To: Will88
Come off it. You were maintaining that onerous regulations affect "new coal or nuclear plants, and a few other industries," but that their influence on the economy is minimal. I provided you with an example of how the EPA is beginning to regulate dust, affecting practically everything but a few other industries, and you start blathering about pavement.

This, on a thread where some guy builds a $1B plant in 15 months.

65 posted on 11/18/2010 7:02:23 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
So would you say, the “[v]ery little left of the textile industry in the US,” manages to produce roughly 5 billion dollar’s worth of product per year?

US Textile Production Reaches New Low

There is one little article you can read. And all these total this and total numbers you and others like to throw around are practically meaningless. The next number you need would be total retail sales of textile products in the US to compare with that production figure.

I've posted before that some very informative data would be, for several years going back several decades:

The value of specific goods produced in the US.

The value of specific goods consumed in the US.

And those figures for total manufactured goods produced in the US, and the total consumed for various time periods. How much do we produce of what we consume, now and in the past?

I'll probably research that gradually, but not today. But I'm sure there are some total figures for textile product sales at the Census site. It's just not the best organized site ever.

66 posted on 11/18/2010 7:07:27 AM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy
Come off it. You were maintaining that onerous regulations affect "new coal or nuclear plants, and a few other industries," but that their influence on the economy is minimal.

Nothing to come off of. Warehouses and new plants of various sorts are being routinely built, but the same cannot be said of coal fired and nuclear power plants. There are building codes and regulations that affect any project, but the projects mostly go through and are built, with the category of exceptions noted.

And, most anyone would know, municipalities and states are constantly recruiting (begging) industries to locate and build in their areas, with the building site already provided, along with often lavish other incentives.

US Census - Retail Sales

The census categories I found are not consistent from production through wholesale and retail sales, but it looks like in 2008 Clothing stores sold about $216 billion, quite a mark-up on the $5 billion in US textile production for 2009 (?) The imports must be quite a bit more than domestic production, maybe about 80% or more of the retail clothing market in the US.

67 posted on 11/18/2010 7:42:33 AM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy

You on board with the 25% tariff on imports from China recommended by Donald Trump? He might even run for president (I doubt he will).


68 posted on 11/18/2010 7:44:52 AM PST by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy

That $216 billion for retail clothing sales will be too low. It looks like the Wal-Marts and other department stores are in different categories (but it includes jewelry). Safe to say retail clothing sales will over $200 billion annually, and probably $250 - $300 billion.

The Census categories I’ve found so far don’t make things easily comparable. I think I’ll try to find some industry sources that might have developed such comparisons from production through retail sale.


69 posted on 11/18/2010 8:09:18 AM PST by Will88
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