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The House Hearing on Global Warming ( Yesterday--Lame Duck Session)
Watts Up With That? ^ | November 17, 2010 | Anthony Watts

Posted on 11/18/2010 11:32:31 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach



The Global Warming hearing today on C-SPAN included Dr. Richard Lindzen, Dr Judth  Curry, Dr. Pat Michaels, Dr. Ben Santer, and Dr. Heidi Cullen, among others. Many didn’t get a chance to watch (to see if Ben Santer “beat the crap out of Pat Michaels“) but we have the video here.

C-SPAN: House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment heard from a dozen witnesses about how the public and private sectors are approaching climate change. Washington, DC : 3 hr. 47 min.

It is now online and can be watched in full at this link:

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/11/17/HP/A/40918/House+Science+Technology+Subcommittee+Hearing+on+Climate+Change+Science.aspx

h/t to WUWT reader Rational Debate


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: academicbias; climatechange; criminalconspiracy; globalwarminghoax; globalwarmingscare; greenieweenies; househearings; junkscience; liedtocongress; pseudoscience; redistribution
Will add additional material to this from WUWT!!
1 posted on 11/18/2010 11:32:36 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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62 Responses to Watch: The House Hearing on Global Warming today
2 posted on 11/18/2010 11:33:58 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Can they be prosecuted for lying to Congress?


3 posted on 11/18/2010 11:35:26 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: All
Professor Richard Lindzen’s Congressional Testimony

He has called the Gorebull warming campaign a crock of B*S*...


Dr. Richard Lindzen gives testimony before the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment on November 17th, 2010

**********************************EXCERPTS *************************************

The House Testimony on global warming yesterday had a number of excellent presentations, and you can watch the entire video here.

I’ve have professor Richard Lindzen’s presentation saved here in PDF form, and some key excerpts below. Part of his presentation looks like WUWT Sea Ice news. It is well worth the read.

Excerpts:

The evidence is that the increase in CO2 will lead to very little warming, and that the connection of this minimal warming (or even significant warming) to the purported catastrophes is also minimal. The arguments on which the catastrophic claims are made are extremely weak –and commonly acknowledged as such.

Given that this has become a quasi-religious issue, it is hard to tell. However, my personal hope is that we will return to normative science, and try to understand how the climate actually behaves. Our present approach of dealing with climate as completely specified by a single number, globally averaged surface temperature anomaly, that is forced by another single number, atmospheric CO2levels, for example, clearly limits real understanding; so does the replacement of theory by model simulation. In point of fact, there has been progress along these lines and none of it demonstrates a prominent role for CO2. It has been possible to account for the cycle of ice ages simply with orbital variations (as was thought to be the case before global warming mania); tests of sensitivity independent of the assumption that warming is due to CO2(a circular assumption) show sensitivities lower than models show; the resolution of the early faint sun paradox which could not be resolved by greenhouse gases, is readily resolved by clouds acting as negative feedbacks.

We see that all the models are characterized by positive feedback factors (associated with amplifying the effect of changes in CO2), while the satellite data implies that the feedback should be negative. Similar results are being obtained by Roy Spencer.
This is not simply a technical matter. Without positive feedbacks, doubling CO2only produces 1C warming. Only with positive feedbacks from water vapor and clouds does one get the large warmings that are associated with alarm. What the satellite data seems to show is that these positive feedbacks are model artifacts.
This becomes clearer when we relate feedbacks to climate sensitivity (ie the warming associated with a doubling of CO2).

Discussion of other progress in science can also be discussed if there is any interest. Our recent work on the early faint sun may prove particularly important. 2.5 billion years ago, when the sun was 20% less bright (compared to the 2% change in the radiative budget associated with doubling CO2), evidence suggests that the oceans were unfrozen and the temperature was not very different from today’s. No greenhouse gas solution has worked, but a negative cloud feedback does.

You now have some idea of why I think that there won’t be much warming due to CO2, and without significant global warming, it is impossible to tie catastrophes to such warming. Even with significant warming it would have been extremely difficult to make this connection.

Perhaps we should stop accepting the term, ‘skeptic.’ Skepticism implies doubts about a plausible proposition. Current global warming alarm hardly represents a plausible proposition. Twenty years of repetition and escalation of claims does not make it more plausible. Quite the contrary, the failure to improve the case over 20 years makes the case even less plausible as does the evidence from climategate and other instances of overt cheating.

In the meantime, while I avoid making forecasts for tenths of a degree change in globally averaged temperature anomaly, I am quite willing to state that unprecedented climate catastrophes are not on the horizon though in several thousand years we may return to an ice age.

===============================================

Entire presentation is available here: Lindzen_Testimony_11-17-2010 (PDF 1.4 MB)

4 posted on 11/18/2010 11:39:29 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: NormsRevenge; steelyourfaith; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; tubebender; Carry_Okie; Brad's Gramma; ...
fyi....

More coming...

5 posted on 11/18/2010 11:40:47 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Bump for later read. Thanks for posting the excerpts.


6 posted on 11/18/2010 11:41:40 AM PST by secret garden (Why procrastinate when you can perendinate?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Call the ASPCA, they dragging out the dead horse for another beating.


7 posted on 11/18/2010 11:42:42 AM PST by AU72
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To: a fool in paradise
And who would that be...surely not the good professor....

From the comments

******************************EXCERPT***************************************

Dave Springer says:

November 18, 2010 at 6:40 am

Lindzen speaks the truth. The deniers IMO are the warmists who must deny a compelling list of contrary observations in order to have faith in the “model” predictions.

8 posted on 11/18/2010 11:44:08 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: a fool in paradise
And we have:

Judith Curry: Climate change can be categorized as a “wicked problem.”, praises blogosphere and cites a need for acknowledgement


Dr. Judith Curry testifies before the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment

*****************************EXCERPTS***************************************************

Some excerpts below, the entire presentation is available for download after the break.

Climate change can be categorized as a “wicked problem.”1 Wicked problems are difficult or impossible to solve, there is no opportunity to devise an overall solution by trial and error, and there is no real test of the efficacy of a solution to the wicked problem. Efforts to solve the wicked problem may reveal or create other problems.

The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) have framed the climate change problem (i.e. dangers) and its solution (i.e. international treaty) to be irreducibly global. Based upon the precautionary principle, the UNFCCC ’s Kyoto Protocol has established an international goal of stabilization of the concentrations of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. This framing of the problem and its solution has led to the
dilemma of climate response policy that is aptly described by Obersteiner et al.2:
The key issue is whether “betting big today” with a comprehensive global climate policy
targeted at stabilization “will fundamentally reshape our common future on a global scale to our advantage or quickly produce losses that can throw mankind into economic, social, and environmental bankruptcy.”

1 Rittel, Horst, and Melvin Webber; “Dilemmas in a General Theory of Planning,” pp. 155–169, Policy Sciences, Vol. 4, Elsevier Scientific Publishing Company, Inc., Amsterdam, 1973. http://www.uctc.net/mwebber/Rittel+Webber+Dilemmas+General_Theory_of_Planning.pdf
2 http://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/1975/292/2001-Managing_climate_risk.pdf?sequence=1

Engagement of climate researchers with regional planners, economists, military/intelligence organizations, development banks, energy companies, and governments in the developing world to develop a mutual understanding about what kind of information is needed can promote more fruitful decision outcomes, and define new scientific challenges to be addressed by research. The need for climate researchers to engage with social scientists and engineers has never been more important.

Further, there is an increasing need for social scientists and philosophers of science to scrutinize and analyze our field to prevent dysfunction at the science-policy interface.
And finally, climate scientists and the institutions that support them need to acknowledge and engage with ever-growing groups of citizen scientists, auditors, and extended peer communities that have become increasingly well organized by the blogosphere. The more sophisticated of these groups are challenging our conventional notions of expertise and are bringing much needed scrutiny particularly into issues surrounding historical and paleoclimate data records.

These groups reflect a growing public interest in climate science and a growing concern about possible impacts of climate change and climate change policies. The acrimony that has developed between some climate scientists and blogospheric skeptics was amply evident in the sorry mess that is known as Climategate. Climategate illuminated the fundamental need for improved and transparent historical and paleoclimate data sets and improved information systems so that these data are easily accessed and interpreted.
Blogospheric communities can potentially be important in identifying and securing the common interest at these disparate scales in the solution space of the energy, climate and ocean acidification problems. A diversity of views on interpreting the scientific evidence and a broad range of ideas on how to address these challenges doesn’t hinder the implementation of diverse megaton and kiloton solutions at local and regional scales.

Securing the common interest on local and regional scales provides a basis for the successful implementation of climate adaptation strategies. Successes on the
local and regional scale and then national scales make it much more likely that global issues can be confronted in an effective way.

=========================================================

Her testimony is available here: Curry_Testimony_11-17-2010

9 posted on 11/18/2010 11:48:24 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Lord Monckton considers Lindzen’s work to be definitive and to have buried and exposed the falsehoods of the global warming hype.


10 posted on 11/18/2010 11:49:52 AM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach


http://comics.com/pearls_before_swine/
11 posted on 11/18/2010 11:49:52 AM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: a fool in paradise

Dr. Judith Curry has been attacked by the At for not joining in the propaganda campaign.


12 posted on 11/18/2010 11:50:12 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"Dr. Ben Santer, "

LOL, my first question was: "Did Ben punch anybody out?".

13 posted on 11/18/2010 11:51:11 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This is great testimony. I’ve been waiting a long time for this. Looks like Waxman, Markey, and other climate-change nuts are now in retreat.


14 posted on 11/18/2010 11:58:30 AM PST by socialism_stinX (He didn't invent fresh-brewed coffee, but he perfected the art of sipping it during tennis warm-up.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
And we have :

Heidi Cullen’s “weather is not climate” moment before congress


Dr. Heidi Cullen testifies before the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment. The nametag is for the person to her right.

******************************************EXCERPTS*************************************************

I’ve read a number of the testimonies before the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment yesterday. It had a number of excellent presentations, and you can watch the entire video here.

One presentation made me chuckle though, and that’s the one from Dr. Heidi Cullen.

It was probably the most lightweight presentation of all of them, and was mostly a history lesson combined with overused and well known talking points. It was a bit like watching An Inconvenient Truth. For example, does her Climate Central graphical treatment of the Keeling CO2 curve (at left) make it impart the information to viewer any better than the original?

When I was in TV news, it was called “swish”. “We need more swish on that.” i.e. “we need to add some bling and sound effects because the viewer has the attention span of a gnat and if we don’t make it pretty they’ll change the channel”. Yeah, in retrospect, maybe that works with Congress too.

One of her statements though, made me bust out laughing. It’s a prime candidate for Quote of the Week but I’ve already named one this week.

Here’s what she had to say:

And the urgency is that the longer we wait, the further down the pipeline climate travels and works its way into weather, and once it’s in the weather, it’s there for good.

Is it just me, or do you all get the impression the Dr. Cullen really doesn’t understand the differentiations of weather and climate?

Weather has always been in climate, it doesn’t suddenly appear “in climate” based on some imagined metric or maxim. It’s always “been there”, not the inverse.The Merriam Webster dictionary says:

I could forgive her if this was an off the cuff poorly considered ad-libbed remark under pressure before congress, but she wrote this ahead of time. This is just nutty thinking.

She adds:

We are currently in a race against our own ability to intuitively trust what the science is telling us, assess the risks of global warming, and predict future impacts. So when we look at a climate forecast out to 2100 and see significantly warmer temperatures (both average and extreme) and sea level three feet higher, we need to assess the risk as well as the different solutions necessary to prevent it from happening. The challenge is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, replace our energy infrastructure and adapt to the warming already in the pipeline.

Three feet huh? Okay, let’s run the numbers. Here’s the satellited measure University of Colorado Sea level graph from our WUWT ENSO/Sea Level/Sea Surface Temperature Page

http://sealevel.colorado.edu/current/sl_noib_global_sm.jpg

Let’s see, at the current rate of 3.1 mm per year, with 90 years remaining, we’ll have 279 mm (0.91 feet) by the year 2100. And of course, if we get some changes in ocean patterns, AMO, PDO, etc, we might very well see a lower rate. Or, it could be higher, but even being generous, and doubling that rate, gives only 1.82 feet.

Scary huh?If I lived on the coast, I’d worry more about hurricanes and strong ocean storms than I would sea level changes. And, what will coastal development look like in 100 years? Who knows? People 100 years ago certainly couldn’t predict what our coastal development would look like today. In fact, who could have predicted that Australia might consider banning coastal development due to such overblown fears?

But, it is often unreported that we’ve had sea level rise all through American history. Of all the talk about sea level rise, it is interesting to point out that at least in Boston, man has easily outraced the sea. The worry about sea level is real, but the ability of man to adapt is clearly illustrated in the comparative maps. See here: The rubbish is coming! One if by land, two if by sea

15 posted on 11/18/2010 12:02:32 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: AU72
This is the last chance for the Democrats before the Republicans take over in January.

Not sure what the Pelosi scheme is for this hearing..they probably want to pass a bill in the lameduck session and get it to the President.

But it has to get thru the Senate...that could be a problem.

16 posted on 11/18/2010 12:05:55 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: socialism_stinX
And this is chaired by a Democrat...

I would expect a redoing of all of this next year by a Republican chaired committee....

Watch Pelosi to cherry pick from all of the testimony.

17 posted on 11/18/2010 12:09:17 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: All
And from the comments ....see link at post #15:

*************************************EXCERPT*****************************************

ArndB says:

November 18, 2010 at 9:32 am

The last IPCC-Report 2007 claims that there are important differences between weather and climate, by saying that:

”A common confusion between weather and climate arises when scientists are asked how they can predict climate 50 years from now when they cannot predict the weather a few weeks from now. The chaotic nature of weather makes it unpredictable beyond a few days.
___Projecting changes in climate (i.e., long-term average weather) due to changes in atmospheric composition or other factors is a very different and much more manageable issue.
___As an analogy, while it is impossible to predict the age at which any particular man will die, we can say with high confidence that the average age of death for men in industrialised countries is about 75.”

The text is from the section FAQ 1.2 : “What is the Relationship between Climate Change and Weather?”, and obviously intended to create the impression that ‘climate science’ is more reliable than weather forecasting. Is this impression wrong? More at: http://www.whatisclimate.com/


18 posted on 11/18/2010 12:13:07 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
No Smoking Hot Spot (The Australian)

The missing hotspot (JoNova)

Those two articles take Greenhouse Theory at face value and by the criterion set up in the theory itself finds no evidence of warming on the basis of greenhouse effect.

The Hidden Flaw in Greenhouse Theory

Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics

Harvard astrophysicist dismisses AGW theory, challenges peers to 'take back climate science'

It Is Impossible For A 100 ppm Increase In Atmospheric CO2 Concentration To Cause Global Warming

Those four articles each show that Greenhouse Theory has no basis in reality due to a direct conflict with the known laws of physics. No wonder the smoking gun "hotspot" can't be found.

Claim That Sea Level Is Rising Is a Total Fraud

That article pretty much puts the kibosh on any serious trend of planetary warming from any cause. Think about it. If there is absolutely no sign at all of rising sea levels how could the planet be warming? Beyond the centuries long slow warming of the earth and rising of the seas of course. But that is only a few millimeters per century due to the inter-glacial period we are in.

19 posted on 11/18/2010 1:03:15 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Dr. Judith Curry has a pretty good curriculum vitae.
20 posted on 11/18/2010 1:10:52 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
...because the viewer has the attention span of a gnat and if we don’t make it pretty they’ll change the channel”. Yeah, in retrospect, maybe that works with Congress too.

You betcha! You're talking about the Creme de la Sheeple. ;^)

21 posted on 11/18/2010 1:16:17 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Claim That Sea Level Is Rising Is a Total Fraud

Dr. Heidi Cullen needs to read that and tell us why sea level hasn't risen more than 1.1 millimeters per year in the last 150 years? Perhaps she can demonstrate that her expertise in that area exceeds that of Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner.

22 posted on 11/18/2010 1:24:41 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: TigersEye
Latest from Anthony Watts at Watts Up With That?

Roger Pielke Sr. on the House global warming hearings

*******************************************EXCERPTS************************************

The U.S. House of Representatives Subcommitee On Energy and Environment Hearing titled

A Rational Discussion of Climate Change: the Science, the Evidence, the Response

that Judy Curry has posted on; e.g. see

Uncertainty gets a seat at the big table: Part III

contains statements on climate science that are incomplete and are misleading. These statement can be read in the Hearing Charter where they write [highlighting added]

Climate and Weather

Climate can be defined as the product of several meteorological elements in a given region over a period of time.

In addition, spatial elements such as latitude, terrain, altitude, proximity to water and ocean currents affect the climate. We experience climate on a daily basis through the weather. The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time—weather consists of the short-term (minutes to months) changes in the atmosphere. Weather is often thought of in terms of temperature, humidity, precipitation, cloudiness, brightness, visibility, wind, and atmospheric pressure. Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere “behaves” over relatively long periods of time. In most places, weather can change from minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day, and season-to-season. Climate, however, is the average of weather over a period of years to decades. Generally, climate is what you expect, like a very hot summer in the American Southwest, and weather is what you get, like a hot day with pop-up thunderstorms.”

and [highlighting added]

The Science

Climate can be influenced by a variety of factors, including: changes in solar activity, long-period changes in the Earth’s orbit, natural internal processes of the climate system, and anthropogenic (i.e. human-induced) increases in atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gases (GHGs). As described above, “climate” is the long-term average of a region’s weather patterns, and “climate change” is the term used to describe changes in those patterns. Climate change will not have a uniform effect on all regions and these differing effects may include changes to average temperatures (up or down), changes in season length (e.g. shorter winters), changes in rain and snowfall patterns, and changes in the frequency of intense storms. The scientific community has made tremendous advances in understanding the basic physical processes as well as the primary causes of climate change. And researchers are developing a strong understanding of the current and potential future impacts on people and industries.”

The preamble of the Hearing misrepresents the current understanding of the climate system and the role of humans within it. The staff who prepared the Hearing Charter either are unaware of the actual state of the science or have chosen to purposely misrepresent the science.

With respect to weather and climate, the writers of the Charter have chosen to use an old, limited definition of climate. The current definition of climate system, which is the one that appropriately should be used for the Hearing is given, for example, in

National Research Council, 2005: Radiative forcing of climate change: Expanding the concept and addressing uncertainties. Committee on Radiative Forcing Effects on Climate Change, Climate Research Committee, Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate, Division on Earth and Life Studies, The National Academies Press, Washington, D.C., 208 pp

where the climate system is defined as

“The system consisting of the atmosphere, hydrosphere, lithosphere, and biosphere, determining the Earth’s climate as the result of mutual interactions and responses to external influences (forcing). Physical, chemical, and biological processes are involved in interactions among the components of the climate system.”

The climate system is shown schematically in the NRC report

The statements in the Hearing Charter

“Climate can be defined as the product of several meteorological elements in a given region over a period of time.”

and

“Climate can be influenced by a variety of factors, including: changes in solar activity, long-period changes in the Earth’s orbit, natural internal processes of the climate system, and anthropogenic (i.e. human-induced) increases in atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gases (GHGs).”

are misleading policymakers and the public with respect to the real climate system. Not only is their definition of climate archaic, but they left off other important first order human climate forcings, as reported in the 2005 NRC report, and summarized in our article

Pielke Sr., R., K. Beven, G. Brasseur, J. Calvert, M. Chahine, R. Dickerson, D. Entekhabi, E. Foufoula-Georgiou, H. Gupta, V. Gupta, W. Krajewski, E. Philip Krider, W. K.M. Lau, J. McDonnell, W. Rossow, J. Schaake, J. Smith, S. Sorooshian, and E. Wood, 2009: Climate change: The need to consider human forcings besides greenhouse gases. Eos, Vol. 90, No. 45, 10 November 2009, 413. Copyright (2009) American Geophysical Union

where we wrote

“In addition to greenhouse gas emissions, other first-order human climate forcings are important to understanding the future behavior of Earth’s climate. These forcings are spatially heterogeneous and include the effect of aerosols on clouds and associated precipitation [e.g., Rosenfeld et al., 2008], the influence of aerosol deposition (e.g., black carbon (soot) [Flanner et al. 2007] and reactive nitrogen [Galloway et al., 2004]), and the role of changes in land use/land cover [e.g., Takata et al., 2009]. Among their effects is their role in altering atmospheric and ocean circulation features away from what they would be in the natural climate system [NRC, 2005]. As with CO2, the lengths of time that they affect the climate are estimated to be on multidecadal time scales and longer.

Therefore, the cost-benefit analyses regarding the mitigation of CO2 and other greenhouse gases need to be considered along with the other human climate forcings in a broader environmental context, as well as with respect to their role in the climate system.”

When the Republicans take control of this Subcommittee in January, I recommend they correct and broaden the perspective on the climate system from what the November 17 2010 Hearing adopted. The Perpetuation Of Climate Misunderstandings By The U.S. House Of Representatives Subcommitee On Energy and Environment

23 posted on 11/18/2010 1:44:00 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: NormsRevenge; steelyourfaith; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; tubebender; Carry_Okie; Brad's Gramma; ...

Important update ping...see Statement just above at post #23.


24 posted on 11/18/2010 1:45:35 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: AmericanVictory

If you know of some links,...add them to the thread if you please.


25 posted on 11/18/2010 1:48:41 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: socialism_stinX

See the updates above.


26 posted on 11/18/2010 1:50:15 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I’ll look for some but my comment was based on personal communications.


27 posted on 11/18/2010 2:36:05 PM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Clive; scripter; Darnright; WL-law; bamahead; carolinablonde; SolitaryMan; ...
Thanx Ernest_at_the_Beach !

 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

28 posted on 11/18/2010 3:16:39 PM PST by steelyourfaith (ObamaCare Death Panels: a Final Solution to the looming Social Security crisis ?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

You are correct. Climate is an average of weather, taken over, say, 30 years. It has always been there.


29 posted on 11/18/2010 5:57:23 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Muslims are not the problem, the rest of the world is! /s)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; ...

Thanks Ernest.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2629417/posts?page=23#23


30 posted on 11/18/2010 6:05:05 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Heidi Cullen = Leftist Dingbat

This is a last gasp of leftist theatrical bullspit before the adults get back in the driver seat.

31 posted on 11/20/2010 12:17:07 PM PST by SteamShovel (UTOPIA...Isn't)
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