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Coburn to McCain: Cutting defense is not 'isolationist'
Foreign Policy ^ | 11/18/10 | Josh Rogin

Posted on 11/18/2010 12:28:08 PM PST by Bokababe

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) Tuesday rejected the assertion by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) that calls for cuts in defense spending represent the rise of "protectionism and isolationism" within the Republican party.....

(Excerpt) Read more at thecable.foreignpolicy.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government; US: Arizona; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: blameamericafirst; coburn; defense; mccain; military; militia; oklahoma; ronpaul; surrendermonkeys; wot; yesitis
McCain flops then flips this time.
1 posted on 11/18/2010 12:28:16 PM PST by Bokababe
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To: Bokababe

depends on the cuts ... I might just be with John on this one.


2 posted on 11/18/2010 12:31:12 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Palin 2012: don't retreat, just reload)
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To: Bokababe

Depends on what we’re cutting in defense. I wouldn’t leave it up to Obama. As a percentage of GDP, we are at very low post WWII levels.


3 posted on 11/18/2010 12:32:03 PM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Bokababe

We can’t have military spending AND the TSA. One of them has to be cut massively.


4 posted on 11/18/2010 12:34:43 PM PST by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: NonValueAdded

Defense is going to be hit hard I can feel it. They don’t learn at all. They have been cutting budgets with defense forever. It does not do any good for the country at all.


5 posted on 11/18/2010 12:35:05 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: NonValueAdded

Why in the heck can’t they accept donations to the debt. Seriously I know you guys are against this for some reason but why not allow tax write offs for anything that goes to the debt. For example, Bill Gates can donate (easily) two billion for 2011 and add in every American who wants to donate. Perhaps have the liberal stars do something worthwhile for a change and have them do some sort of concert for the debt. I remember during the Clinton administration when the debt was briefly discussed, a school raised six hundred dollars for the debt (I know not even a drop in the well) but President Clinton sent it back to the school saying that their was not a mechanism to accept the money for the debt.....what a crock! They need to change that immediately. I will be blasted about this but I believe it is a great idea. Some people will even “will” their money to the debt after they die. Please tell me why this is not a good idea??????


6 posted on 11/18/2010 12:39:49 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: Bokababe
Normally, I don't support cuts in Defense spending. It is a constitutional necessity, after all. BUT, I'm starting to really shift with respect to how and where we spend those dollars.

More specifically, isn't it about time that we let Germany, South Korea and Japan defend themselves? Why can't we bring those soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines home, where they can spend their dollars on American bases? South Koreans don't want us there, plus they continue to give us the "free trade shaft". Japan doesn't want us, especially in Okinawa. And, I say "F" the Germans. If they aren't worried about the Russians, why should we worry about the Russians?

We need to protect the homeland, but we also need to do it in a way that protects the homeland's treasury.

7 posted on 11/18/2010 12:40:13 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: Zuben Elgenubi
"We can’t have military spending AND the TSA. One of them has to be cut massively."

Good point.
8 posted on 11/18/2010 12:40:26 PM PST by Minus_The_Bear
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To: dcwusmc; bamahead; djsherin; rabscuttle385; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; AuntB; EveningStar; ...

McCain — enough said.


9 posted on 11/18/2010 12:41:42 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

McCain brings home the bacon for Raytheon or one of the defense companies in Scottsdale. The man is a pro-illegal wh*re. It is all about shoveling money to illegals and defense contractors.


10 posted on 11/18/2010 12:46:07 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: Bokababe

” McCain — enough said. “

Yeah, good catch, BB.

Anything said by McCain is MORE than enough said ;-)


11 posted on 11/18/2010 12:50:46 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: NonValueAdded; All
It's interesting as to how we view this differently.

What I saw was that John McCain's previous comments re "worried about isolationists & Rand Paul" & cutting the defense budget went over like a lead balloon. So now, McCain regroups, says, "I didn't mean that, I meant it should be cut but reinvested", hoping that it will sound better.

12 posted on 11/18/2010 12:52:56 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: OldDeckHand

I agree 100% .

I happen to think we could use a lot more “isolationism”.


13 posted on 11/18/2010 12:58:59 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: napscoordinator

Really depends on what is cut. I mean, if we fired the military’s Commander in Chief, think of what we could save!


14 posted on 11/18/2010 12:59:42 PM PST by Thane_Banquo (Mitt Romney: He's from Harvard, and he's here to help.)
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To: Bokababe

Senator Coburn, when you’re dealing with folks whose first impulse as they survey the ocean of federal spending is to cut defense, one of the few constitutionally mandated responsibilities in that ocean, you’re dealing with isolationists.


15 posted on 11/18/2010 1:02:47 PM PST by EternalVigilance (GOP: The "lesser of evils" party)
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To: Bokababe
Just as the other lefties trot out the “R” word, the neocons try to preclude debate with the “I” word.

“You want to defund the dirigible mast in my district? Why, did you isolationists learn nothing? 1938! 1938!”

Does anyone remember the spectacle of Red Ron Dellums and Patsy Schroeder pushing through the Osprey against the opposition of the Reagan DOD? I guess Reagan was a real isolationist / sarc.

16 posted on 11/18/2010 1:07:36 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments (I'd rather be Plaxico Burress than Sean Taylor)
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To: Bokababe

NO MILITARY CUTS IN A TIME OF WAR... ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?

LLS


17 posted on 11/18/2010 1:09:41 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: EternalVigilance

Amen.

LLS


18 posted on 11/18/2010 1:11:11 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: Bokababe

I am disappointed in Senator Coburn on this issue.
He is too obsessed with the failures of the “Class of ‘94.”
He should know better than to publicize defense cuts.


19 posted on 11/18/2010 1:12:00 PM PST by La Enchiladita
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To: WOBBLY BOB
"I happen to think we could use a lot more “isolationism”."

I think I know what you mean, but I want to be clear about my position. I don't - in any way - wish to return to the days of 1930s isolationism that was so prevalent in the GOP. We should NEVER be scared to project force, anywhere in the world, and at whatever time.

Nor do I wish to shrink the size of the military. But, I think those 200K+ troops that are in Germany and Korea and Japan right now, would be MUCH better utilized in existing US bases, or perhaps even some new bases along the Mexico border.

We have a carrier based in Japan. I don't want to eliminate that carrier group, I just want it moved back to either Pearl or San Diego or Seattle. We're closing bases in the US - bases that infuse local economies with hundreds of millions/annually - but were leaving open all these other bases that employ foreigners. It makes no sense, whatsoever.

20 posted on 11/18/2010 1:12:17 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: napscoordinator

Thank you. I cannot believe that Coburn is assisting the anti-American left on this issue. Maybe he should read the Constitution again, and look up “American exceptionalism” while he is at it.


21 posted on 11/18/2010 1:13:30 PM PST by La Enchiladita
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To: EternalVigilance

Exactly! I thought Coburn was smarter than this. OTH, perhaps he is showing his true colors.


22 posted on 11/18/2010 1:15:24 PM PST by La Enchiladita
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To: OldDeckHand

Our troops will be housed somewhere. Having them housed on location is smart. It keeps us connected to nations even when times are hard.

The amount of money we would save by bringing them back to the U. S. would amount to you trying to rescue your household budget by cutting out matches or air deodorizer for the bathroom.

Once those troops were brought back to U. S. soil, guess what would happen. Our active military would be chopped in half.

We’ve already cut half our naval ships. We don’t engage in places like the Indian Ocean as piracy runs rampant. Didn’t we have a Navy for just this purpose, to keep the high seas open?

Folks, please don’t go wobbly on me. For heaven’s sake, we don’t get a second chance if we cut our military to the bone and get taken to the cleaners because of it.

You either keep a presence around the world, or you withdraw and wither away.

We need to stop the insane spending. It’s not the military that is ruining us. It’s the trillions spent as if on a lark, here a $750 billion, there a trillion, somewhere else a $300 billion, and still somewhere else $600 billion. This is the history of the last just a little over two years.

That’s like decade and a half of military spending. So what do we do, we suggest we cut our military. HELL NO! Don’t fall for that crap.

We’ll spend twice as much as our military budget each year on freebies. Do you see anyone suggesting we MUST stop that? Hell no.

Honestly folks, shesh...


23 posted on 11/18/2010 1:16:35 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Your next chance like this? About 2044. Vote popularity and don't waste time with the details.)
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To: Bokababe

Big government RINO.


24 posted on 11/18/2010 1:17:35 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: Bokababe

That’s true in a sense. Cutting defense invites foreign aggression, which reduces our ability to behave as isolationists.


25 posted on 11/18/2010 1:18:35 PM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: Bokababe

I expect some cuts could be made in defense like any other government department, but they should legitimately be things that are wasteful or redundant, and not force reduction and cuts in needed maintenance and upkeep.

But one thing all governments need to look, fed, state and local, is retirement plans. And even in the military it makes less and less sense for someone to serve twenty years and then draw retirement for forty or more years. AFAIK, people can still retire after twenty years. Retirement ages and retirement plans for all government employees need to be reviewed and adjusted periodically.


26 posted on 11/18/2010 1:22:24 PM PST by Will88
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To: WOBBLY BOB
I happen to think we could use a lot more “isolationism”.

Wobbly Bob, well-named.

27 posted on 11/18/2010 1:22:43 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Yes, I'm a neocon. What of it?)
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To: Bokababe

Anyone who uses the term “Isolationist” and “Protectionist” is nothing more than a “Globalist” and a “Communist”

McCain is just a Liberal Free Trader Statist Open Borders Globalist....who would rather defend some foreign border than America’s own border with Mexico.


28 posted on 11/18/2010 1:24:43 PM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (They don't let you build churches in Mecca)
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To: DoughtyOne
Folks, please don’t go wobbly on me.

:) I love Thatcherisms!!

For heaven’s sake, we don’t get a second chance if we cut our military to the bone and get taken to the cleaners because of it.

You either keep a presence around the world, or you withdraw and wither away.

We need to stop the insane spending. It’s not the military that is ruining us. It’s the trillions spent as if on a lark...

I can't (won't) argue with any of that.

29 posted on 11/18/2010 1:28:09 PM PST by MaggieCarta (What are we here for but to provide sport for our neighbors, and to laugh at them in our turn?Austen)
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To: DoughtyOne; OldDeckHand; Pollster1; Will88; MaggieCarta; LibLieSlayer; EternalVigilance; ...
Gates Warns Against Defense Cuts
30 posted on 11/18/2010 1:33:16 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Yes, I'm a neocon. What of it?)
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To: Will88

I expect some cuts could be made in defense like any other government department, but they should legitimately be things that are wasteful or redundant, and not force reduction and cuts in needed maintenance and upkeep.


And I am betting that this is what Sen. Coburn was getting at.

We do not need so much of our military overseas. Even with areas of conflict...our military logisitcs are so much better that we can keep our units back in the USA and send them on short notice.

We also have a big problem with our border with Mexico, and need to focus more on that....than some border in a goat-infested Middle East.

Whenever someone uses the terms “Isloationist” and “Protectionist”....they are not thinking America first.


31 posted on 11/18/2010 1:33:35 PM PST by UCFRoadWarrior
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To: Thane_Banquo

ROTFLMAO. That was a great one and you are 100 percent correct.


32 posted on 11/18/2010 1:35:00 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: All

Time out here folks, I think most of you missed the progress of the conversation:

1. Rand Paul said that virtually everyone in Congress agrees that there have to be cuts, but the argument is always, “Where?” Traditionally, Republicans say it has to be in Social Programs and Democrats say it has to be in Defense. Rand said that if we want to get serious, we have to look at the whole enchilada — social services AND defense. There are areas in Defense that are wasteful and even military people agree on this.

2. McCain jumps in with this “isolationist worry” re Rand, BS

3. Coburn agrees with Rand Paul

4. McCain backs off, agrees that there is waste, but then says the waste should be “cut but reinvested”. McCain has built his entire career as an internationalist — of course he’s going to want the $$$ “reinvested” — which is the same effect as no cuts at all!

I cannot see how any reasonable person who knows that $Billions were left on the ground in Iraq, completely lost track of, and nothing came to a screeching halt but rather was ho-hummed away, doesn’t think that there isn’t waste in the Defense budget!

Either we want a smaller more Constitutional and financially responsible government — or we don’t!


33 posted on 11/18/2010 1:38:16 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

bump


34 posted on 11/18/2010 1:45:16 PM PST by loboinok (Gun control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
Whenever someone uses the terms “Isloationist” and “Protectionist”....they are not thinking America first.

And they are really doing the same thing as the people who use terms like racist, homophobe and Islamophobe. They're using cheap slurs to silence people, and to avoid discussing an issue they don't want to discuss in an objective manner.

35 posted on 11/18/2010 1:51:10 PM PST by Will88
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To: UCFRoadWarrior

How come we can all agree the gubbermint wastes money left and right and can’t even run their own Congressional cafeteria without waste and fraud,but somehow all DOD spending is always and forever beyond reproach, let alone discussion.


36 posted on 11/18/2010 1:59:59 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
How come we can all agree the gubbermint wastes money left and right and can’t even run their own Congressional cafeteria without waste and fraud,but somehow all DOD spending is always and forever beyond reproach, let alone discussion.

Truly excellent question!

37 posted on 11/18/2010 2:12:25 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: napscoordinator
Please tell me why this is not a good idea?

Would you leave your estate to a spendthrift child or nephew?

38 posted on 11/18/2010 2:32:09 PM PST by Spirochete (Sic transit gloria mundi)
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To: OldDeckHand

“But, I think those 200K+ troops that are in Germany and Korea and Japan right now, would be MUCH better utilized in existing US bases, or perhaps even some new bases along the Mexico border.”

We don’t have those troops there because it helps some congressman’s district. Yes, get rid of the defense pork. The military isn’t a jobs program.
But we need to project power all over the world to protect our interests.


39 posted on 11/18/2010 2:34:55 PM PST by ari-freedom (Islam is at war against America, while America is at the mall.)
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To: Bokababe
Either we want a smaller more Constitutional and financially responsible government

Then I recommend reading the Constitution and learning what expenditures it provides for: defense and defense only.

40 posted on 11/18/2010 2:39:26 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Yes, I'm a neocon. What of it?)
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To: Bokababe

“McCain backs off, agrees that there is waste, but then says the waste should be “cut but reinvested”. McCain has built his entire career as an internationalist — of course he’s going to want the $$$ “reinvested” — which is the same effect as no cuts at all!”

If the waste was reinvested to protect our borders that would be a good way of agreeing with McCain and knocking him at the same time.


41 posted on 11/18/2010 2:41:57 PM PST by ari-freedom (Islam is at war against America, while America is at the mall.)
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To: ari-freedom
"But we need to project power all over the world to protect our interests."

We have 10K ICBMs pointed right at Russia. Believe me, we don't need 60K or more troops stationed in Germany to project force. Did those troops keep Russia out of Georgia?

Korea can defend Korea. What precisely is our interest in keeping North Korea out of South Korea? It's not like South Korea is a big consumer of US goods, thanks to their own protectionist trade agreements with us (ones that we happily sign).

After WWII, we had a moral obligation to protect Japan. That was 65 years ago - literally a lifetime ago. Let Japan rearm if they're worried about China.

We can no longer afford to provide defense for the US homeland, as well as nations abroad. That is our new financial reality. We shouldn't ignore it. That's not going to make the problem go away.

42 posted on 11/18/2010 2:50:35 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: ari-freedom

They can pay for their own protection. They can cut some entitlements and fund their own military.

We’re broke.


43 posted on 11/18/2010 2:54:26 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: La Enchiladita
Then I recommend reading the Constitution and learning what expenditures it provides for: defense and defense only.

True, but how many people here are willing to hand over their Social Security checks so that the DOD can have carte blanche forever?

It's time to get real. We're broke and something has to give. And I don't believe for a second that every DOD dollar is well-spent and not subject to waste.

44 posted on 11/18/2010 4:05:13 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...

45 posted on 11/18/2010 6:57:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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