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To: nmh
” ... she is considered the 2nd holiest woman to have ever lived after Fatima, a daughter of Mohammed.”
Okay, so what does Fatima, a duaghter of Mohammed have to do with Catholicism? Where the link up?

The Iberian peninsula was held by the Muslims for many years. One town in Portugal got named Fatima, and after many centuries, the name stuck and was not changed. That town is where three children saw an apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary in 1917.

44 posted on 11/19/2010 9:23:22 PM PST by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
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To: Dajjal
The belief that Fatima, the daughter of Mohammad, saw a ghost hardly gives her any creditability with me. People today, think, see and believe they are aliens too!

What's especially problematic with this is Fatima, Mohammad's daughter, was a Moslem. Moslems are not Christians by any stretch of the imagination. I would not pout it past a Moslem to LIE and use this “apparition” to reinforce that barrier to a personal relationship with Christ.

Moslems do NOT accept Christ as their Savior. Moslems see Christ as a fraud. Their idea of a Messiah was similar to the Jews and Jesus is the complete opposite of what they expected and desired. Mary was Jew. Moslems HATE Jews. If Moslems can't acknowledge that Jesus overcame death, it is illogical for them to believe that Mary overcame death and appeared to anyone. Mary is not God and doesn't have the power to rise from the dead and appear.

Also from the Christian standpoint,the Bible which the Moslems are arbitrary on what they believe confirms there disconnect to Christianity in at least there two verses and more if you take God's Word seriously.

1 Timothy 2:5

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Yes, there is only ONE mediator between God and man and that is CHRIST!

Romans 8:26-27

[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

It is the Holy Spirit that cleans up our requests and makes them presentable to Christ. In the few comments on Mary there is NO ability for her to interceded or be a mediator according to God's Word. So I see this as further distancing a “believer” from a personal relationship with Christ.

It would make sense in a perverted spiritual way to reinforce a false notation that Mary is an intercessor when she is just another sinner. The Bible also clarifies that through many verses but these come to mind:


[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:



[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

“All” and “NONE” include Mary as being a sinner too!

In fact the book of Hebrews is ALL about those that had FAITH. It was their FAITH that saved them. They were ALL sinners. To “infer” otherwise about Mary calls God a liar and God cannot lie.


[2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

It is man that lies and I call Fatima a liar without reservation!

In Numbers 23:19 the Bible says, “God is not a man, that he should lie;

God is quite clear that He is not the liar. Man is the one that lies. This lie is just a distraction from giving Christ His earned due and that was His death for you and I that we might be “saved” and not be in hell. To believe in Mohammad is to doom yourself for eternity. Islam is clearly false teachings.


[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. If you disagree, argue it out with God. BTW, the "Queen of Heaven" is nothing new. Check out Jeremiah and God's reaction to the "Queen of Heaven" there. He was quite pissed at idol worship.

Jer.7:18 [18] The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Just cruise through Jeremiah and see God's ANGER towards worship of the Queen of Heaven. It provokes God to ANGER.


[17] But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

[18] But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

[19] And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

[25] Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

None of the above concerning worship of the Queen of Heaven pleased God. It made God very ANGRY and still does today since it detracts from Jesus' sinless and perfect life that no mere mortal could accomplish. I can only tell you what God says about idol worship and His requirement to be the only ONE you pray TO.

Exod.34:14 [14] For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: There are many references to His being a jealous God and not wanting to share His glory with other sinners. Christ was the only one that is sinless that walked the earth. It is Christ alone that paid our sin debt. No other mortal was able to be perfect or Christ would have died in vain IF another mortal COULD BE PERFECT.

So whether Mohaammads daughter, Fatima claims to have seen "Mary" or not it doesn't matter. Besides there are NO KNOWN IMAGES OF MARY to even compare. That's right. There are NO KNOWN IMAGES of MARY! There are NO KNOWN IMGAES of Christ either. I have no doubt that this is on purpose since graven images worship is forbidden by Christians.


[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Exodus 20:4

[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

So whether you want to pray TO a dead sinner or worship an imgage it is clearly wrong. Then again you can believe a Moslems to add credibility to a lie.

BTW, I call them Moslems rather than Muslims for a reason.

Why Do People Say Muslim Now Instead of Moslem?

By Yii-Ann Christine Chen Ms. Chen is a student at the University of Washington and an intern at HNN.

Is it Muslim or Moslem? When Baby Boomers were children it was Moslem. The American Heritage Dictionary (1992) noted, "Moslem is the form predominantly preferred in journalism and popular usage. Muslim is preferred by scholars and by English-speaking adherents of Islam." No more. Now, almost everybody uses Muslim.

According to the Center for Nonproliferation Studies, "Moslem and Muslim are basically two different spellings for the same word." But the seemingly arbitrary choice of spellings is a sensitive subject for many followers of Islam. Whereas for most English speakers, the two words are synonymous in meaning, the Arabic roots of the two words are very different.

A Muslim in Arabic means "one who gives himself to God," and is by definition, someone who adheres to Islam. By contrast, a Moslem in Arabic means "one who is evil and unjust" when the word is pronounced, as it is in English, Mozlem with a z. ...

Journalists switched to Muslim from Moslem in recent years under pressure from Islamic groups. But the use of the word Moslem has not entirely ceased. Established institutions which used the older form of the name have been reluctant to change. The American Moslem Foundation is still the American Moslem Foundation (much as the NAACP is still the NAACP--the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People).

The journal The Moslem World--published by the Hartford Seminary in Connecticut--is still The Moslem World. Call them what they are - MOSLEMS!

You may beleive whatever you wish!

I suggest you believe God instead of liars.

45 posted on 11/20/2010 9:17:59 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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