Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

China, Russia quit dollar
ChinaDaily ^ | 2010-11-24 07:55 | Su Qiang and Li Xiaokun

Posted on 11/24/2010 12:07:59 PM PST by ConfusedSwede

"St. Petersburg, Russia - China and Russia have decided to renounce the US dollar and resort to using their own currencies for bilateral trade, Premier Wen Jiabao and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin announced late on Tuesday.

Chinese experts said the move reflected closer relations between Beijing and Moscow and is not aimed at challenging the dollar, but to protect their domestic economies."


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Government; Russia
KEYWORDS: 0baraq; 6pies; baraq0ppression; bathhousebarry; china; corruptbastards; crackhead2012; dollar; ebonomics; economy; federalreserve; geldmansacks; geldmansucks; glennbeck; goldmansacks; goldmansucks; hyperinflation; kenya0con0my; mask0f0bama; maybealittlebl000000; mmm; mmmm; mmmmm; russia; spain4only75000day; trade; trumansfault; victorym0sque; wagya4just100lb; wagyabutt4barry
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-108 next last

1 posted on 11/24/2010 12:08:01 PM PST by ConfusedSwede
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

Ummmm. Isn’t this really big news?


2 posted on 11/24/2010 12:10:17 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name now that we have the most conservative government in the world?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

I do not know. It seems to be.


3 posted on 11/24/2010 12:11:45 PM PST by ConfusedSwede
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

Isn’t this what Glenn Beck said would happen just before we go into a full-blown economic collapse?


4 posted on 11/24/2010 12:19:43 PM PST by LaineyDee (Don't mess with Texas wimmen!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

Huge....while Obama admin keeps rearranging the deck chairs.


5 posted on 11/24/2010 12:26:48 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

Yes it is and I don’t see a lot mention of it in the American press.


6 posted on 11/24/2010 12:28:03 PM PST by taxtruth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

Nah. Dancing with the Stars, football games and other nonsense on ALL Obama TV is more important. Idiots who watch TV enable and empowered Obama including Prince Al Waleed’s Fox News.

The new reality will be dawning soon. Also thank the idiot anti-birthers who post here deserve credit. Old folks and baby boomers are so screwed.


7 posted on 11/24/2010 12:30:30 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: berdie

later


8 posted on 11/24/2010 12:31:11 PM PST by berdie (qill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

I Googled that and it is not in any American news sites. It for me is HUGE too.


9 posted on 11/24/2010 12:33:44 PM PST by ColdOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun
There have actually been rumblings about this in the past, notably the arabs wanted a "basket of currencies" for their oil, but nothing came of it.

It would seem to be huge, but I don't really know how much difference it would make. In practical terms it means that if you are a Russian buying Chinese goods you can pay for them in roubles rather than buying US dollars, if the entity you are buying them from accepts roubles.

This could be a one of. It might not work. On the other hand, if other countries start to join this and it becomes a trend, that would spell trouble for the dollar.

10 posted on 11/24/2010 12:37:25 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name now that we have the most conservative government in the world?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne
I Googled that and it is not in any American news sites. It for me is HUGE too.

It's probably not on any American news sites because it doesn't really affect America.

NEITHER China nor Russia "quit" the Dollar. They both fully intend to continue taking US Dollars as currency, NOTHING has changed there.

This agreement between China and Russia only deals with an agreement for trade between China and Russia. China will start accepting the Russian Ruble and Russia will take the Chinese Yuan. This is a trade agreement between China and Russia that has ZERO EFFECT on any other nation.

11 posted on 11/24/2010 12:42:35 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

That’s gonna leave a mark.


12 posted on 11/24/2010 12:44:33 PM PST by Psalm 144
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee; ColdOne
This is a trade agreement between China and Russia that has ZERO EFFECT on any other nation.

Wrong, as usual.

1) It sets the precedent for non-US denominated energy, food, and other asset sales, cutting into the USD's status, not to mention geographical reach, as the world reserve currency.

2) It returns the total pool of US dollars currently tied up in Sino/Russian trade back in to the global M3, devaluing the dollar.

3) It excludes (and this is critical) the SWIFT and US banking infrastructure from ALL Sino/Russian trade. No clearning houses, no transaction tracking, no US jurisdiction bank accounts. This means untraceable PRC/neo-Soviet financial transactions.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

13 posted on 11/24/2010 12:56:23 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
This is a trade agreement between China and Russia that has ZERO EFFECT on any other nation. THANK YOU for clearing that up. Happy Thanksgiving to you wagglebee!
14 posted on 11/24/2010 12:58:36 PM PST by ColdOne (Happy Thanksgiving and God Bless!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

WOW then it is not OK.. Very troubling these days are.


15 posted on 11/24/2010 1:03:03 PM PST by ColdOne (Happy Thanksgiving and God Bless!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

Since nearly everything is tied to the global economy, does this mean we’ll miss out on any profits from transactions between those countries?


16 posted on 11/24/2010 1:28:33 PM PST by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

Excellent analysis; thanks.
BTTT.


17 posted on 11/24/2010 1:30:12 PM PST by TopQuark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian; ColdOne
What you say is POSSIBLE in theory.

In reality, this agreement will probably collapse within a year when either the Russians, the Chinese or both get angry about currency manipulation by the other.

There seems to be a new industry predicting the "collapse" of the USD, the reality is that this has been going on for decades. The USD was supposed to be replaced by then Yen, then the Euro and now some as-yet-unnamed currency. The reality is that the USD is still by far the most stable currency out there.

Will the Dollar eventually be supplanted? Probably, but that's a long way off. The British Pound was the major currency until it was replaced by the Dollar in the mid-20th century, but it is STILL a major corrency.

18 posted on 11/24/2010 1:35:36 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

Tell them we only pay in dollars guess we have a debt to no-one.


19 posted on 11/24/2010 1:48:28 PM PST by edcoil ("Help the helpless, don't give a shit about the clueless.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
In reality, this agreement will probably collapse within a year when either the Russians, the Chinese or both get angry about currency manipulation by the other.

The whole reason for them to drop USD and switch to their own currencies is the currency manipulation by the USA. So they obviously trust each other more than some third country that is totally unaccountable to either of them.

20 posted on 11/24/2010 1:56:49 PM PST by Greysard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

Oh yeah...I forgot: It’s America....it can’t happen here....we’re just in a cycle....nothing’s changed....


21 posted on 11/24/2010 1:59:24 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Greysard
True, until they decide that they trust us more than they trust each other.
22 posted on 11/24/2010 2:02:00 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

Not a lot of sense in that article. Why would China and Russia ever have determined that they should use dollars in bilateral trade in the first place? That imposes another level of costs in that trade. Were they unable to determine what the right exchange rate or Rubles/Yuan ratio really was without the dollar as a common denominator? This does not really make sense to me.

China has an excess of dollars due to its exports to us and Russia probably has a shortage of dollars due to few exports to us. Hence one has a impact on the value of the dollar and the other little.


23 posted on 11/24/2010 2:09:38 PM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee; ColdOne
What you say is POSSIBLE in theory.

What I said was fact that invalidated your assertion that this move will have zero effect outside of Russia and China.

You are the one putting forth "possible" theories and wishful thinking scenarios.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

24 posted on 11/24/2010 2:12:14 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

Keep pushing such stories as this is the only place they seem to be important...not even Fox is covering it. Thanks


25 posted on 11/24/2010 2:20:45 PM PST by CincyRichieRich (Keep your head up and keep moving forward!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wolfcreek; All
Since nearly everything is tied to the global economy, does this mean we’ll miss out on any profits from transactions between those countries?

It means missed out profits for Goldman Sachs and other similar mega-transaction clearing houses and banks, but not American private enterprise, at least none I can think of.

But, it does mean that Iran, North Korea, and Venezuela, and any other country with access to Russian or Chinese money can now deal *among themselves* without any fear of having their American-jurisdiction bank accounts frozen.

Scenario: Iran sells oil to China, China pays Iran in yuan. Iran buys SAMs from Russia with Chinese yuan (now in a Russian yuan-denominated account) which Russia can turn around and use to pay China for missile technology, which China can now use to pay Venezuela for an oil lease...

No USA anything in there, anywhere.

This is the fastest way to become the new hegemony: Create a money system that enemies of America can use to buy and sell oil, food, and weapons. And let's face it, every country on earth either already is or is one election away from being an enemy of America.

And all because Soetoro has effectively destabilized the dollar beyond the point of repair.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

26 posted on 11/24/2010 2:28:49 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

The most troubling thing is that 20 countries in the world controls over 95% of the planet’s GDP.

China already has a currency swap deal with Russia and Brazil. They are now working on it with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the Eurozone. The idea is to cut out the U.S dollar as the global currency reserve since it’s an entirely manipulated currency at this point.

Sooner or later a dollar will be worth it’s actual value in terms of goods and service produced by the U.S(and in demand by the global market). I suspect that the true worth of a dollar(minus the government scams) is going to be a lot lower that what it is now.


27 posted on 11/24/2010 3:00:43 PM PST by todd_hall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

It’s notabale, but not “huge”. This is just an agreement between Russia and China to use their own currencies instead of the US Dollar when conducting business together. The agreement gives them a little dig at the US but doesn’t change the way they each conduct business with the rest of the world, usually in US Dollars.

The headline is typical Drudge; he takes a minor story and gives it a sensational half-true headline.


28 posted on 11/24/2010 7:08:13 PM PST by balls
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

3) It excludes (and this is critical) the SWIFT and US banking infrastructure from ALL Sino/Russian trade. No clearning houses, no transaction tracking, no US jurisdiction bank accounts. This means untraceable PRC/neo-Soviet financial transactions.

None of our business anyhow


29 posted on 11/24/2010 9:12:04 PM PST by Chickensoup (In the Leftist protected species hierarchy, Islamics trump Homosexuals trump Women trump Blacks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: balls

It is not my headline. It is ChinaDailys headline.


30 posted on 11/24/2010 10:39:55 PM PST by ConfusedSwede
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

>>>>>>>>>China has an excess of dollars due to its exports to us and Russia probably has a shortage of dollars due to few exports to us. Hence one has a impact on the value of the dollar and the other little.>>>>>>>>>>>

Since dollar is a # 1 World’s reserve currency yet Russians do have a lot of dollars. Do you really think they are accepting pesos and dinars in exchange for their gas and weapons?


31 posted on 11/24/2010 10:51:39 PM PST by cunning_fish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

Eventhough it could mean a loss for some Americans, I’m not sorry to see those GS bastards take a hit. Fingers in everyone’s pie and all that.

Thanks for the reply!


32 posted on 11/25/2010 4:49:13 AM PST by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian
Scenario: Iran sells oil to China, China pays Iran in yuan. Iran buys SAMs from Russia with Chinese yuan (now in a Russian yuan-denominated account) which Russia can turn around and use to pay China for missile technology, which China can now use to pay Venezuela for an oil lease... No USA anything in there, anywhere.

The thing I think is missed in this discussion is that once these countries detach from the dollar they can (and will) charge us one price and their monetary partner another price. China can turn to us and say, "We will charge you $100 a ton for steel and charge Russia 100 rubles." That the ruble is no longer tied to the dollar we have no way of knowing that the Chinese are giving the Russians the steel for a lot less than they are charging us.

It leaves them free to put the U.S. out of business in a short time if choose by simply pricing us out of the market.

33 posted on 11/25/2010 5:14:28 AM PST by raybbr (Someone who invades another country is NOT an immigrant - illegal or otherwise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: raybbr
The thing I think is missed in this discussion is that once these countries detach from the dollar they can (and will) charge us one price and their monetary partner another price.

That's an exceptionally good point that didn't even occur to me. So, let me add 2 observations:

1) Kudos.

2) We're screwed.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

34 posted on 11/25/2010 6:43:38 AM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian
That's an exceptionally good point that didn't even occur to me. So, let me add 2 observations:

1) Kudos.

Thank you. I try...

2) We're screwed.

Sure seems like it. Unless we get a president and Congress with the balls to recognize the damage and reverse it. I ain't holding my breath. I suspect it's going to take pitchforks and slip knots.

35 posted on 11/25/2010 8:36:45 AM PST by raybbr (Someone who invades another country is NOT an immigrant - illegal or otherwise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: taxtruth; Admin Moderator

[Yes it is and I don’t see a lot mention of it in the American press.]

Not on Front Page / Breaking sidebar - either.

Upgrade?


36 posted on 11/25/2010 9:12:38 AM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
[This agreement between China and Russia only deals with an agreement for trade between China and Russia.]
 
If that trade was previously denominated in Dollars, and this move will denominate that trade in currency other than the Dollar - then how does that not constitute a decreased demand for the Dollar with a consequential effect upon the value of the Dollar per supply and demand?
 
 
How many dollars were utilized in Russian/Chinese trade?

37 posted on 11/25/2010 9:21:44 AM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian
>>2) We're screwed.
 
Only to the extent the amount of power the Chicoms and Russians are able to project into the Middle East counterbalances that manifested by the embassy compound in Baghdad (the world's largest  IIRC?) presently flying the flag of the U.S.A - and undermines the hegemony of the Petrodollar.
 
 
And only to the extent that they are immune to a more traditional traditional threat, that has always been nipping at the Chicom's heals:
 
 

Scarlet Memorial:

 Tales Of Cannibalism In Modern China

http://www.amazon.com/Scarlet-Memorial-Tales-Cannibalism-Modern/dp/0813326168

Eat more (dollars) Chinese!

 

38 posted on 11/25/2010 9:51:01 AM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

39 posted on 11/25/2010 10:15:17 AM PST by Diogenesis ('Freedom is the light of all sentient beings.' - Optimus Prime)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

“Ummmm. Isn’t this really big news?”

Nah. Door-buster sales are where the news action is.


40 posted on 11/25/2010 10:54:48 AM PST by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede
Let's consider just a few factors.


41 posted on 11/25/2010 11:25:13 AM PST by Conservative Tsunami
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: raybbr
Unless we get a president and Congress with the balls to recognize the damage and reverse it. I ain't holding my breath. I suspect it's going to take pitchforks and slip knots.

I would settle for an President and Congress that aren't clearly and purposely sabotaging the USA, period. Can we survive the next two years of The Regime?

Those pitchforks and slipknots - I hope they're "Made in China" for added irony.

;-)

42 posted on 11/25/2010 11:30:56 AM PST by Conservative Tsunami
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

And there goes super inflation.

Thank god no one cares. :)


43 posted on 11/25/2010 12:04:22 PM PST by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin; SunkenCiv; ExTexasRedhead; Liz; AuntB; Willie Green; JulieRNR21; metmom; Tired of Taxes; ...

This sounds like it ought to be huge news. The Fed’s plan to spur consumer spending by devaluing the dollar was not a good idea.


44 posted on 11/25/2010 12:09:20 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Frantzie
The real catastrophe this week is that Bristol Palin failed to capture the Dancing with the Stars trophy.
The destruction of the dollar and collapse of American power and influence pale in comparison.

/sarc

45 posted on 11/25/2010 2:24:44 PM PST by Deo volente (God willing, America will survive this Obamination.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ConfusedSwede

China Daily is a China rag. Now that they bought a digital camera, I guess their credibility has gone up a notch. /s


46 posted on 11/25/2010 2:57:45 PM PST by Gabrial (The Whitehouse Nightmare will continue as long as the Nightmare is in the Whitehouse)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

Consider the real exchange rate, defined as RX = EP*/P, where E is the exchange rate measured as the domestic currency price of foreign currency (so an appreciation of the renminbi is a fall in E), P* is the foreign price level, and P the domestic price level. Basic international macro says that there is a “natural” level of the real exchange rate, determined by trade competitiveness and international capital flows. And the economy “wants” to get to that real exchange rate.

If you have a floating exchange rate, you get there via a rise or fall in E. But if you have a pegged rate, there’s pressure on prices instead. By deliberately keeping E higher than it would be under floating, China is creating pressures for P to rise; the inflationary pressures are directly related to the exchange rate policy.

As Krugmen wrote earlier this year in the NY Times this was inevitable the Chinese are attempting to escape inflation in their economie. They will of course fail at this attempt and may actually injure their economy badly.


47 posted on 11/25/2010 7:19:12 PM PST by Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian
2) It returns the total pool of US dollars currently tied up in Sino/Russian trade back in to the global M3, devaluing the dollar.

Isn't that about the effect of the recent Federal Reserve action too?
48 posted on 11/25/2010 7:44:49 PM PST by Son House (The TEA Party is Going to Be Like a GI Party...Clean House!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Frantzie
What about the grandchildren of America getting all this debt passed to them? There getting screwed badly also.
49 posted on 11/25/2010 8:01:24 PM PST by jarofants
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: LaineyDee

I think this mean that they will be dumping dollars back on us. that means a lot of dollars entering the country and inflation going higher than Ted Kennedys Blood alcohol level after Thanksgiving dinner.
Hope everyone got a wheelbarrow. Will need them to go to market to buy bread.Just fill them with thousand dollar bills and have at it.


50 posted on 11/26/2010 1:53:55 AM PST by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-108 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson