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ATF attempting to reclassify small arms ammunition without public input
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | November 26, 2010 | David Codrea

Posted on 11/27/2010 3:30:20 PM PST by Neil E. Wright

“Recently, the NFATCA took the lead on an issue that could have far-reaching consequences in the NFA and Sporting communities,” the National Firearms Act Trade & Collectors Association reports.

What issue?

It was learned that ATF was seeking to create a definition of small arms ammunition under the aegis of the Safe Explosives Act. The definition was being created as an opinion letter and had no input from the firearms community.

Why is a revised definition needed? What is the impetus behind this effort to increase the Bureau’s regulatory control reach? And why exclude the people who it would compel compliance from under force of law?

What’s the immediate danger?

[I]t could have arrived as a declaration that all ammunition above .50 caliber would now be classified as an explosive.

That means that there would be a whole new slew of regulations and licensing requirements—including potentially for currently-owned property. Why?

NFATCA tells us they learned of this and “arranged for a meeting” with ATF brass and its representatives, along with representatives of “NRA, SAAMI, Safari Club International and the NSSF.”

A “working group” has been established. A pledge of sorts to “make certain that ‘we get this right’” has been made, and we’re told to expect progress updates.

So: crisis averted, our leaders are on the job and we can go back to sleep now, right?

Not so fast. Let’s take a closer look.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ammunition; banglist; batfe; codrea; examiner
Things that make you go: hmmmmmmmmmm!

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1 posted on 11/27/2010 3:30:23 PM PST by Neil E. Wright
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To: Neil E. Wright

Shot Shells?


2 posted on 11/27/2010 3:33:32 PM PST by screaminsunshine (Americanism vs Communism)
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To: screaminsunshine

Maybe we shouldn’t tell them that a 12 gauge is bigger than .50 cal....shhhhh!


3 posted on 11/27/2010 3:36:00 PM PST by Zarro (Hands off Our Junk!)
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To: Neil E. Wright

4 posted on 11/27/2010 3:36:19 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (DEFCON I ALERT: The federal cancer has metastasized. All personnel report to their battle stations.)
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To: Neil E. Wright

YO ATF ... maybe we should reclassify ammo in the following categories ...

SMALL enough to Blow your JUNK OFF
Small enough to kill a RAT
Big enough to make an ATF agent SAy ...yes, SIR!!


5 posted on 11/27/2010 3:37:17 PM PST by gwilhelm56 (OFFICER... when the TSA agent regains Consciousness.. Arrest him for Sexual Assault!)
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To: Zarro

**Maybe we shouldn’t tell them ...**

that’s probably why they picked 50

Wouldn’t surprise me one bit.


6 posted on 11/27/2010 3:38:51 PM PST by gwilhelm56 (OFFICER... when the TSA agent regains Consciousness.. Arrest him for Sexual Assault!)
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To: Neil E. Wright

They’re getting desperate and jumping the shark at every turn, aren’t they?


7 posted on 11/27/2010 3:39:59 PM PST by piytar (0's idea of power: the capacity to inflict unlimited pain and suffering on another human being. 1984)
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To: Neil E. Wright

my question still..
Why a Bureau of Alcohol tobacco and firearms

WHEN ALL 3 are LEGAL???


8 posted on 11/27/2010 3:40:35 PM PST by gwilhelm56 (OFFICER... when the TSA agent regains Consciousness.. Arrest him for Sexual Assault!)
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To: Neil E. Wright

It’s long past time for Congress to take apart some of these unelected regulatory bodies and give us back our freedom.


9 posted on 11/27/2010 3:44:24 PM PST by hometoroost (From Hope and Change to Gropin' Some Strange)
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To: hometoroost

“It’s long past time for Congress to take apart some of these unelected regulatory bodies and give us back our freedom.”

We’ll see just what the new congress does. Most politicians, after they’re in Washington a few months, seem to forget about the rights of the people.


10 posted on 11/27/2010 3:55:30 PM PST by dljordan ("His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him")
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To: Neil E. Wright

Most of these so-called “gun rights” organizations are simply the latest incarnations of Felix Dzherzinski’s genious.


11 posted on 11/27/2010 3:56:35 PM PST by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: Neil E. Wright
.50 caliber would now be classified as an explosive.

Do they explode?

12 posted on 11/27/2010 3:56:47 PM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Neil E. Wright

I wondered why my trigger finger was overly itchy this morning when I woke up.


13 posted on 11/27/2010 3:57:20 PM PST by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system.)
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To: gwilhelm56
Why a Bureau of Alcohol tobacco and firearms

WHEN ALL 3 are LEGAL???

To create another bureaucratic regulatory agency to create more thumb pressure on us creators of wealth so we have to feed the takers of wealth more whether we want to or not.

We need caretakers to save us from ourselves.

14 posted on 11/27/2010 4:06:55 PM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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Small arms ammo is a propellent...not an explosive


15 posted on 11/27/2010 4:14:42 PM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (It is going to be Foot to Ass combat on election day....my foot and a Rat's ass.)
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To: gwilhelm56
my question still..
Why a Bureau of Alcohol tobacco and firearms

WHEN ALL 3 are LEGAL???

And all three carry ridiculously high federal excise taxes. BATFE is the enforcement arm charged with collecting the taxes. Our good 'ol red neck friends refer to them as "revenours". Short barreled rifles, sawed off shotguns, machine guns, suppressors, 20mm rifles all are legally owned by private citizens provided you buy the necessary tax stamps.

Regards,
GtG

PS Bet you didn't think there was an answer to your question. Not a good answer but it'll have to do. I always thought BATFE sounded like one hell of a party if you'd throw in a couple bags of chips...

16 posted on 11/27/2010 4:22:58 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Neil E. Wright

bflr


17 posted on 11/27/2010 4:24:58 PM PST by FourPeas (Pester not the geek, for the electrons are his friends.)
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To: dljordan
You are unfortunately correct. As the slimy Trent Lott said, "They need to be co-opted", and the Beltway is perfectly designed to corrupt and co-opt them.

"If ya do what we want, you'll have this lil' privilege, and you know there's these hot lil' chicks over here who want you." Etc, etc, .....get something on them....got something on you, so you better shut up.

1994 all over again? I hope not. But, probably. We got a Republican President and Congress, and what did we get? A 50% increase in the size of gubmint. Should I be more optimistic this time around? Maybe I should be, but I'm not.

18 posted on 11/27/2010 4:27:33 PM PST by FlyVet
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To: hometoroost
unelected regulatory bodies and give us back our freedom.

Freedom is never given, it has to be taken.

19 posted on 11/27/2010 4:29:10 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Obama treats terrorists with kid gloves, American Citizens with rubber gloves)
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To: Neil E. Wright

Lots and lots of things will explode.

What about muzzleloaders? Some of those are .54 which is above 50 caliber. Why is something above 50 an explosive and those below not when an explosion is a chemical reaction, not a function of size.


20 posted on 11/27/2010 4:35:05 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig

Gas, propane, natural gas, scotch, and draino will all explode under the right circumstances.


21 posted on 11/27/2010 4:36:15 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: FlyVet
So, you are talking about the famous yellow stripped belly crawling weasel aka Trent V*. Lotte?

The man who would sell out his own momma for the pennies on her eyes?

* V stands for Vacant

22 posted on 11/27/2010 4:51:21 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat
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To: FlyVet

“Should I be more optimistic this time around? Maybe I should be, but I’m not.”

Hang tight, FlyVet. The patriots took over 30 state legislatures this election. Watch for more brushfires than the keystone federal fascist cops can handle.

BTW, did you notice the average ATF commando has ballooned past 350 lbs? I heard that standard combat issue for an ATF fatso is one defibrillator, a wheelbarrel to roll him around the battlefield and a harpoon-proof vest.

Ahoy, Captain Ahab. Thar she blows!


23 posted on 11/27/2010 5:24:37 PM PST by sergeantdave
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To: driftdiver

“Gas, propane, natural gas, scotch, and draino will all explode under the right circumstances.”

Scotch and the natural gas that followed were the right circumstances for my ex-wife to explode.


24 posted on 11/27/2010 5:37:15 PM PST by Stormdog (A rifle transforms one from subject to Citizen)
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To: Stormdog
“Gas, propane, natural gas, scotch, and draino will all explode under the right circumstances.”

As will flour, sawdust, and non-dairy creamer! Will the BATFE be regulating them as well?

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, & Explosives... That should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

Mark

25 posted on 11/27/2010 5:53:03 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: EGPWS

Technically, all ammunition (powder or propellant) that 1) BURNs and 2) has a flame speed greater than the speed of sound .... is an explosion / explosive.

And thus, in my mind, lies the danger as it would be easy to classify all ammunition as explosives.


26 posted on 11/27/2010 5:57:44 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: driftdiver

so will sugar and flour.


27 posted on 11/27/2010 5:59:11 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: Neil E. Wright
The nobility is becoming upset that the serfs won't shut up and allow the marxists to turn us into slaves.
28 posted on 11/27/2010 6:05:30 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: Nuc 1.1

The BATF and E has to be the most hated government agency.
Especially among gun owners.
Please take a minute and look at this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2623044/posts

This could prove to be the answer.
The House of Representatives “holds the purse strings” of this nation.
If they refuse to fund something, it withers and dies.
The members of the new House, our representatives, need to be told
that we expect them to de-fund certain programs and agencies; they
are, after all, our representatives.


29 posted on 11/27/2010 6:20:18 PM PST by Jerrybob
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To: hometoroost
I understand what you are trying to say. But please keep in mind that congress has no authority to take any of our freedoms. None. Much less place bureaucrats to do so. Nor are the courts empowered to take your freedoms under the guise of determining the constitutionality of laws. This is known as judicial review and it is nowhere in the constitution. So let's be honest...our “government” has been rouge for a long long time.
30 posted on 11/27/2010 6:22:10 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: Neil E. Wright

paging Henry Bowman, please pick up the white courtesy phone.


31 posted on 11/27/2010 6:35:48 PM PST by henry_reardon
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To: Neil E. Wright

The bloody Communists are showing their hand more and more, aren’t they?

I swear, when will the ostriches finally learn it’s bloody time to become “uppity”!!~!!


32 posted on 11/27/2010 7:27:26 PM PST by Prussianone
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To: Neil E. Wright

Once they get their foot in the door they will keep pushing and pushing, gradually expanding the scope of their control until we end up like Barney Fife.


33 posted on 11/27/2010 8:00:32 PM PST by Iron Munro (This is our culture; fight for it. This is our flag; pick it up. This is our country; take it back.)
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To: Neil E. Wright
Almost every post you make linked to the 'Gun Rights Examiner' is in turn itself sourced to Mike Vanderboegh of the "Sipsey Street Irregulars" website. Whatever Mike says, David Codrea repeats as 'news'.

Mike Vanderboegh is more than a bit unstable and continually makes an ass of himself at another gun-related board that I frequent.

If he's not calling someone a 'useful ATF Jew' or overstating some obscure point as proof of fascism, he's trying to get everyone riled up about joining militias with his works of fiction about resistance and uprising against the government.

There's lots of good reason that this man gets ignored by decent people, but all anyone really needs to do is take one look at the guy and try to imagine him as their anti-government militia rifle platoon commander. Maybe he'll give someone the rank of 'Lance Sergeant', and make them his personal orderly with the special task of refilling his oxygen bottles, pushing his wheelchair through the trenches, and running down to the canteen for another carton of Pall Malls.

34 posted on 11/27/2010 8:32:06 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: driftdiver

Mmmm...scotch


35 posted on 11/27/2010 8:36:55 PM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (It is going to be Foot to Ass combat on election day....my foot and a Rat's ass.)
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To: Neil E. Wright
Make up whatever royal decrees you want.

Come to my front door to enforce 'em.

Bring yer lunch.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

36 posted on 11/27/2010 8:38:34 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: gwilhelm56

“my question still..
Why a Bureau of Alcohol tobacco and firearms

WHEN ALL 3 are LEGAL???”

They started as a tax agency and the same will happen now that the IRS has armed agents. Goons like to act as goons.


37 posted on 11/27/2010 8:48:37 PM PST by A Strict Constructionist (Oligarchy...never vote for the Ivy League candidate.)
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To: marktwain
Ping

Best regards,

38 posted on 11/27/2010 8:52:25 PM PST by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: screaminsunshine

Remind me where in the Federal Constitution is the functions of the ATF authorized?


39 posted on 11/27/2010 9:29:58 PM PST by Monorprise
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To: Monorprise

New Deal?


40 posted on 11/27/2010 9:44:50 PM PST by screaminsunshine (Americanism vs Communism)
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
"Small arms ammo is a propellent...not an explosive".

Small arms ammuniton is neither a propellant or explosive. The propellant powder contained within a cartridge can be either, depending upon the degree of restrainment of its combustion gases upon ignition of the powder.

Similarly, an automobile is not a propellant or explosive by nature of the gasoline in its fuel tank.

41 posted on 11/27/2010 11:02:21 PM PST by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Buffalo Head

Watch! Cars will be declared to be explosive devices!


42 posted on 11/30/2010 12:00:25 PM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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