Skip to comments.Stem-Cell Fraud
Posted on 11/28/2010 5:11:53 PM PST by raptor22
Science: Supporters of California's failed 2004 stem-cell law will ask strapped taxpayers to support another $3 billion bond initiative in 2014. Maybe it's time to restore fiscal sanity as well as science to its rightful place.
When it was passed in 2004, Proposition 71, with its $3 billion state fund and 10-year mandate for embryonic stem-cell research (ESCR), held out the promise of imminent miracle cures for everything from spinal disorders to Parkinson's.
One campaign ad showed actor Christopher Reeve, aka Superman, asking California voters to "stand up for those who can't."
Some six years later, with about $1.1 billion dispersed, there have been $270 million worth of impressive new labs built, research papers published, and respected scientists hired at exorbitant salaries, but no miracle cures or even marketable therapies. And none is likely for years, if not decades, to come. The promised financial payback for the financially strapped citizens of California is also far off.
(Excerpt) Read more at investors.com ...
Yeah, but they sure showed George W. Bush where he could shove his position on embryonic stem-cell research!
The embryonic stem cell hype was never about finding new treatments for anything. It was always about making abortion more respectable.
Hesitant about having an abortion for birth control purposes? How about having one to advance science?
Those moron majority voters of Ca.would blindly vote for their own death certificate if it was on the Lib Dem ticket endorsed by their leftist heroes.
Lord save us from the “enlightened”.
That is exactly what was going on. You can never take anything any RAT says at face vlue—they are ALWAYS pushing their agenda.
Nothing makes them feel better than New Class A digs.
That particular crowd is not likely to produce anything of value ~ none of them were interested in that anyway.
[The embryonic stem cell hype was never about finding new treatments for anything. It was always about making abortion more respectable.]
It is about farming and harvesting humans for parts, dehumanizing humans. All for the children, or the greater good, or some such crap, of course.
I know that so many people are against this but for people like me this is important. It could give me my life back here and nothing less than that.
and No I am not a troll.
If you want people to click on your link, post the real URL so that people know where they’re going to go. I’d don’t click on stealth links.
“For those suffering back pain as a result of degenerated or damaged intervertebral discs, utilizing your own stem cells to repair your own body is a blessing you may soon experience.”
This is adult stem cells, not embryonic. Be sure if you get a treatment, you know what you are talking about.
>>I know that so many people are against this but for people like me this is important<<
Sorry but I would not have babies die so I could live.
I would rather live the life God gives me.
This is from YOUR own link...
With it he is able to combine the patients own mesenchymal stem cells (MSC) with a naturally occurring collagen gel that can then be surgically implanted into the affected area. The invasion is minimal and therefore appealing to my sense of holism, as it reduces the chances of post-surgical trauma and side effects.
Note “The Patient’s own”
This article is about embryonic stem cells.
Your link is about a patient’s own stem cells.
This is a ploy by the MSM to confuse. We as conservatives are not against stem cell research. We ARE against embryonic stem cell research, which destroys babies for the cure of another.
We applaud stem cell research when Adult Stem cells are used.
My back is destroyed and I would do this treatment in a heartbeat. It is from your own adult stem cells taken from your own bone marrow. This is the kind of research (and cures) I support. Thanks for the link.
There is all the difference in the world between adult stem cell research and harvesting aborted embryos for stem cell research. The leftist media deliberately obfuscates between the two, trying to subtly portray pro-life folks as being opposed to adult stem cell research, while pushing the worthless embryonic research initiatives that have born only evil fruit despite decades of effort.
sorry it was just long:
Use all the stem cells you want, until you want them from embryos. If it takes embryos to give you your life back, the math, not to mention the morality, doesn’t add up.
What about a stem cell that is taken from an embryo without killing or harming it?
I would too. The problem is that saying NO to any research is wrong. Also using parts of the placenta can be done which is after the baby is born.
No I am not in favor of abortion for harvesting stem cells so everyone can back off my case right now. But as may of you (not CH3CN) jumped on me for pointing out that this “cure” is harvested from your own body as opposed to a fetus - you should be as reasonable to mention that you are in favor of using stem cell research and treatments harvested from the patients own body.
Saying no to all of it is not helping a lot of people that it could be.
And to say that I’ll just deal with what god gave me, well if you lived as i have since 1989 - I *think* you may change your mind a tad. Trust me constant pain of 4-7 on a scale of (No pain) 1 - 10 (kill me pain) on a daily basis for 21 years, many at 9 - 10 is not a walk in the park.
>Be sure if you get a treatment, you know what you are talking about.<
it wont happen here for YEARS if at all.
Too many people just saying no to all types of this treatment without being specific. It is killing the chance of it being done here :-(
No matter what women will be having abortions - it can not be stopped. There are tons of reasons for it including to save the mothers life.
There are circumstances that this opportunity should not be wasted for just to blanket a statement like “Use all the stem cells you want, until you want them from embryos.”
If the baby is going to be killed for a few reasons that are acceptable then let it be not in complete vein.
The world is not black and white and using absolutes in any case should be done with a great deal of caution.
[What about a stem cell that is taken from an embryo without killing or harming it?]
How much “harmless” research will it take so THAT can be accomplished?
OK, yes/no question, my answer would be “NO”.
>>And to say that Ill just deal with what god gave me, well if you lived as i have since 1989 - I *think* you may change your mind a tad<<
I have non-treatable pain myself.
I wouldn’t kill a baby for it. And the Placenta is not what they are talking about with embryonic stem cells.
>Nope, sorry. I have non-treatable pain myself.<
Not gonna trade pain stories with you. But I guarantee with enough pain, you’ll do anything to end it.
>>But I guarantee with enough pain, youll do anything to end it.<<
If you’re weak or amoral.
Killing babies to relieve my pain ain’t in the playbook, dude.
[The world is not black and white and using absolutes in any case should be done with a great deal of caution.]
The world is full of gray area, don’t you know, and gray is a small dose of black thrown into white to hide the black.
When you mix dirty water with clean water, you just have more dirty water.
While I sympathize with your pain, I cannot condone the advancement of the agenda to farm and harvest human parts, as you selfishly desire. I might add that at 21, I was at least as selfish, and did not have the reasons you have.
You might petition the MSM to separate stem cell research from embryonic stem cell research in their reporting so that more folks would be on board supporting the research that could benifit sufferers like yourself.
Perhaps we can just agree to disagree, albeit it vehemently.
May God give you comfort and strength and bring a blessing out of even this. I did not mean to sound harsh and I apologize for not giving first thought or concern to your own condition. I’ve suffered with lesser pain (I’d peg at a 3 on your scale) for a matter of weeks, and recall thinking that I’d prefer stabs of 9-10 pain occasionally to the constant, ongoing pain. So I can’t really imagine what you live with, and can appreciate your point about being desperate to get relief. I hope and pray that you get it.
Munz, no-one here is opposed to the use of adult stem-cell research, and that’s what that article was about. One of the arguments against fetal stem-cell research money is that adult stem cells are the more promising research line, but if we spend all our research on fetal stem-cells, harvesting human babies may just become the QWERTYUIOP keyboard of stem cell therapy.
(If you don’t get the reference, the QWERTYUIOP keyboard was designed a century ago for manual typewriters to prevent keys from sticking together; it’s fantastically inefficient, but that’s what everyone uses, because that’s what everyone used before them.)
Your original opinion was in favor of the California Embryonic Stem Cell initiative, but your link describes an adult stem cell-based cure.
You are either ignorantly or deliberately confusing the issue.
Good people want cures for diseases, WITHOUT destroying another's life, or profiting by the the immoral destruction of that life.
Crappy, horrible people want to push the view of human beings, especially in their most vulnerable form, as being nothing more than objects of service to the more powerful.
They hate the idea that we all have intrinsic rights, granted by our Creator. And they're willing to lie, cheat, and steal to get their way.
How much profit are you making and was that green or black tea?
Of course, those who know about it realize that it could not have been developed without the use of techniques developed from embryonic stem-cell research already conducted.
And, of course, not a single embryo needs to be killed to conduct embryonic stem-cell research. Those who claim otherwise are using a ploy to confuse well-meaning people.
Plus, embryos are being destroyed every day, with absolutely no benefit to anyone (except reduced storage space... :-/ )
...even if embryos were used for this research, there would be no more destroyed than are otherwise destroyed.
As several people already pointed out, the article you linked is specifically about taking stem cells from your body and using them. The article at the top of this thread was about using embryonic stem cells.
Putting aside the moral issues, as a scientist, I have huge reservations about the use of embryonic stem cells. Those cells are primed to grow at a fairly high rate, and what keeps them in check and forces them to grow into the various tissues that make up a baby is a poorly defined soup of constantly changing growth regulators. When those cells are removed from the regulatory soup, they have no controls on their growth--and they have a very high resemblence to cancer cells. The defining characteristic of cancer cells is their unregulated growth. In many types of cancer, genes that were turned off during the fetal stage are turned back on. Given these facts, I wouldn't want them injected into my body.
Morally, of course, I am not a person who can be comfortable with having a baby killed to treat my medical condition. It would be better for me to die than to kill an innocent for my benefit.
The problem is that saying NO to any research is wrong.
During the first half of the 20th century, the Japanese conducted especially brutal research on human subjects, involving vivisection, usually without any anesthetic or pain killers. By your stated standard, that kind of research is perfectly acceptible.
When you have been duck taped to a surgical table, cried like a baby and begged the doctor to end your life to stop the pain. Then I’ll listen to what you have to say.
Till then, a broken knee ... crushed hand ... broken teeth with nerves exposed and none of it was 1/10 th of what I go through now - none of that compares. So if you know what pain is, then I’ll listen to your sanctimonious attacks with some compassion. Till then your just another person telling ma all the great stuff you can do that I can’t. I am hardly weak or amoral .. I am human .. apparently unlike yourself who is able to withstand pain that jets your heart rate to near fatal conditions. Causes you to black out and covers you in sweat in moments. Leaves you unable to lift a coffee cup, sit, stand, walk or lay down.
Your just too amazing to even be bothered with someone as weak and feeble as me .. so don’t bother with scum like me your righteousness.
BTW - My original intent was simply to say that not all stem cell research should be banned as so many people say.
>While I sympathize with your pain, I cannot condone the advancement of the agenda to farm and harvest human parts, as you selfishly desire<
But I don’t actually and never did. I just support the research in general, not the killing of anything.
Your right. I guess what upsets me most is that when anyone mentions stem cell research, it is seldom said in a separation between embryonic and adult donors. It is just treated as universally bad.
Look at the threads. people just shoot it down and there needs to be a distinction made.
I am not advocating abortion at all.
I am however fiercely advocating that not all research is bad. And just because this particular branch of research and treatment is called “stem cell” many people could care less where it comes from. So many people here who are against one side of it (fetal) should make that clear. That abortion is out but there are other ways to do it and that those ways are alright.
Imagine all the people who call or write their congresscritters and say “I am against stem cell research”.
I think it is a much higher number of people than say “I am against embryonic stem cell research but adult stem cell research should be allowed”
That is all I am trying to get out here. Which is why I posted that article about adults having success.
all kinds of stuff is coming about now like this i was told of today
I believe that we are close to end a lot of suffering through medicine and science. I only ask that people make the point that it be allowed - without killing anyone.
Thank you. Your thoughts warmed me more than i can say.
As for this type of treatment I doubt that they will be doing anything like this in the states for quite a while. There are just too many people that are so diametrically opposed to anything dealing with the science of stem cell research. Again, I am just asking people not to lump it all in one big garbage heap when they discuss it or write their representatives.
Maybe someone is opposed to the whole thing entirely - that’s okay. But if they aren’t, then I am just trying in my own way to encourage people to separate the two types of research so our reps know that it all shouldn’t be curtailed. There is a lot of hope in this now for a lot of people. Me included. If I could get two discs rejuvenated I would have about 1/3 of my problem taken care of. If they can grow one fresh, all the better. If they learn enough to replace an entire chord, I’m half way there!
I just posted this in another reply:
It just seems like there is nothing that is really out of reach now, just not here yet.
“Where there is hope, there is life”
>You are either ignorantly or deliberately confusing the issue.<
neither, I was just showing that not all stem cell research is bad. I posted my reasoning quite a bit here, so you can kind of gloss through the above replies if you like as well.
I meant neither to confuse or deceive anyone. I simply wanted people to know that there are ways that stem cell research is being used effectively in a very moral and responsible way. That not all research is bad.
Because some people immediately jump on the band wagon and say things that would be taken as it is all bad, immoral and evil. They get all pious because they haven’t had a sick day in their lives. They think that they know what suffering is but haven’t a clue. because it does not effect them, why bother to make any difference between types of treatment? Much easier to just slap a label on the whole thing as a bad plan and leave it be.
I get what you are saying and i think that your taking my statement and equating it to the Japanese is a bit too literal.
I was talking about professional, reasonable, moral and regulated types of research.
Also no where did I ever say I approved of abortion to end my suffering. This is exactly what I am talking about. All of a sudden I am some evil baby killer because I believe that there are useful ways of doing stem cell research.
But I love how I was immediately labeled by some as a self centered, evil, sadistic baby killer to selfishly end the pain of a hangnail I happen to have.
You obviously have NEVER been on a FR thread on Stem Cell Research, embryonic or adult!!!
Every single thread goes out of its way to emphasize the great benefits found my doing research on adult or properly (umbilical coord, etc.) harvested stem cells, and BASHES the media for their shell game when it comes to presenting the one as the other!
There has NEVER been a thread here where anyone paints ALL stem cell as evil. I dare you to point to ONE! Nor has there, to my knowledge, ever been from any other pro-life news site or group!
And make no mistake about it - the California Embryonic Stem Cell program was explicitly created for research on embryonic stem cells (i.e. it's research destroying living humans).
A quick minute of research on the topic here at FR, or numerous pro-life websites would cure your assumptions PDQ.
And to bash people who "think that they know what suffering is but havent a clue", shows that it's YOU that has ZERO clue about this. The number of people who are in dire need of cures, yet stand strong against the destruction of living human beings - in whatever stage of development - is LEGION.
Open your eyes.
funny, how many people have made comments regarding it that i have read here on FR.
Again, your jumping all over me and yet I have NOT EVER condoned abortion for the sake of research.
BTW were you or were you not the one who wrote:
“””Yes comrade, and Embryonic Stem Cell Research will still be referred to as “Stem Cell Research”! “”””
Nice differentiating there. And I do appreciate your proving my point for me.
[But I dont actually and never did. I just support the research in general, not the killing of anything.]
I think that if you read everything in this thread that has been written to you, the actual article, and everything you have posted, you would see why I wonder why you even showed up to this discussion. Perhaps you’re in too much pain to focus.
You disingenuous dolt - that quote you're using was on the Media Masks Mosque: AP Bans "Ground Zero Mosque" thread.
I, as anyone who as a clue can tell, was referring to the aforementioned "shell game" the media plays regarding obfuscating the issues of adult vs. embryonic stem cell research. I guess you think a FReeper from the class of '98 is going to address another FReeper as "Comrade" un-sarcastically?
And of course, in your search through my posting history, you forgot to mention the huge table I posted up MORE RECENTLY in another thread on the subject,"Subsidizing Questionable Science" (My post follows, between the horizontal rules):
| Auto-Immune Diseases
Acute Heart Damage
Chronic Coronary Artery Disease
Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome
X-linked Lymphoproliferative Syndrome
X-linked Hyper immunoglobulin M Syndrome
| Neural Degenerative Diseases and Injuries
Spinal Cord Injury
| Anemias and Other Blood Conditions
| Wounds and Injuries
Surface Wound Healing
Skull Bone Repair
| Other Metabolic Disorders
Cerebral X-Linked Adrenoleukodystrophy
| Liver Disease
Chronic Liver Failure
| Bladder Disease
End-Stage Bladder Disease
What Embryonic Stem Cells have been shown to be capable of:
Let them both be great at what they're great at.
Don't destroy the latter to get it to do the job of the former!
You're pathetic. Just pathetic.
Why is a Fraud important to you? Awful expensive just to make you feel better because it does NOTHING else
It starts with:
"Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place
(Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year
(Any time of year)
You can find it here"
... and ends with:
And in the master's chambers they gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
"Relax," said the night man, "We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave."
Why does this song seem more like about the "Roach Motel" than the "Hotel" California?
>>How much profit are you making and was that green or black tea? <<
Ooops sorry, I thought we were having an adult conversation.