Stem-Cell Fraud

Investor's Business Daily ^ | November 28, 2010 | IBD staff

[raptor22]

Science: Supporters of California's failed 2004 stem-cell law will ask strapped taxpayers to support another $3 billion bond initiative in 2014. Maybe it's time to restore fiscal sanity as well as science to its rightful place.

When it was passed in 2004, Proposition 71, with its $3 billion state fund and 10-year mandate for embryonic stem-cell research (ESCR), held out the promise of imminent miracle cures for everything from spinal disorders to Parkinson's.

One campaign ad showed actor Christopher Reeve, aka Superman, asking California voters to "stand up for those who can't."

Some six years later, with about $1.1 billion dispersed, there have been $270 million worth of impressive new labs built, research papers published, and respected scientists hired at exorbitant salaries, but no miracle cures or even marketable therapies. And none is likely for years, if not decades, to come. The promised financial payback for the financially strapped citizens of California is also far off.

[Munz]

I get what you are saying and i think that your taking my statement and equating it to the Japanese is a bit too literal.

I was talking about professional, reasonable, moral and regulated types of research.

Also no where did I ever say I approved of abortion to end my suffering. This is exactly what I am talking about. All of a sudden I am some evil baby killer because I believe that there are useful ways of doing stem cell research.

[Munz]

exactly.

But I love how I was immediately labeled by some as a self centered, evil, sadistic baby killer to selfishly end the pain of a hangnail I happen to have.

[Yossarian]

Because some people immediately jump on the band wagon and say things that would be taken as it is all bad, immoral and evil. They get all pious because they haven’t had a sick day in their lives. They think that they know what suffering is but haven’t a clue. because it does not effect them, why bother to make any difference between types of treatment? Much easier to just slap a label on the whole thing as a bad plan and leave it be.

You obviously have NEVER been on a FR thread on Stem Cell Research, embryonic or adult!!!

Every single thread goes out of its way to emphasize the great benefits found my doing research on adult or properly (umbilical coord, etc.) harvested stem cells, and BASHES the media for their shell game when it comes to presenting the one as the other!

There has NEVER been a thread here where anyone paints ALL stem cell as evil. I dare you to point to ONE! Nor has there, to my knowledge, ever been from any other pro-life news site or group!

And make no mistake about it - the California Embryonic Stem Cell program was explicitly created for research on embryonic stem cells (i.e. it's research destroying living humans).

A quick minute of research on the topic here at FR, or numerous pro-life websites would cure your assumptions PDQ.

And to bash people who "think that they know what suffering is but haven’t a clue", shows that it's YOU that has ZERO clue about this. The number of people who are in dire need of cures, yet stand strong against the destruction of living human beings - in whatever stage of development - is LEGION.

Open your eyes.

[Munz]

funny, how many people have made comments regarding it that i have read here on FR.

Again, your jumping all over me and yet I have NOT EVER condoned abortion for the sake of research.

[Munz]

BTW were you or were you not the one who wrote:

“””Yes comrade, and Embryonic Stem Cell Research will still be referred to as “Stem Cell Research”! “”””

Nice differentiating there. And I do appreciate your proving my point for me.

[Blue Collar Christian]

[But I don’t actually and never did. I just support the research in general, not the killing of anything.]

I think that if you read everything in this thread that has been written to you, the actual article, and everything you have posted, you would see why I wonder why you even showed up to this discussion. Perhaps you’re in too much pain to focus.

[Yossarian]

Nice differentiating there. And I do appreciate your proving my point for me.

You disingenuous dolt - that quote you're using was on the Media Masks Mosque: AP Bans "Ground Zero Mosque" thread.

I, as anyone who as a clue can tell, was referring to the aforementioned "shell game" the media plays regarding obfuscating the issues of adult vs. embryonic stem cell research. I guess you think a FReeper from the class of '98 is going to address another FReeper as "Comrade" un-sarcastically?

And of course, in your search through my posting history, you forgot to mention the huge table I posted up MORE RECENTLY in another thread on the subject,"Subsidizing Questionable Science" (My post follows, between the horizontal rules):

---

What Adult Stem Cells have proven to be capable of:

Cancers:

---

Brain Cancer Retinoblastoma Ovarian Cancer Skin Cancer: Merkel Cell Carcinoma Testicular Cancer Tumors abdominal organs Lymphoma Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma Hodgkin's Lymphoma Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia

Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia Juvenile Myelomonocytic Leukemia Chronic Myelomonocytic Leukemia Cancer of the lymph nodes:     Angioimmunoblastic Lymphadenopathy Multiple Myeloma Myelodysplasia Breast Cancer

Neuroblastoma Renal Cell Carcinoma Various Solid Tumors Soft Tissue Sarcoma Ewing's Sarcoma Waldenstrom's macroglobulinemia Hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis POEMS syndrome Myelofibrosis

Auto-Immune Diseases

---

Diabetes Type I (Juvenile) Systemic Lupus Sjogren's Syndrome Myasthenia Autoimmune Cytopenia Scleromyxedema Scleroderma Crohn's Disease

Behcet's Disease Rheumatoid Arthritis Juvenile Arthritis Multiple Sclerosis Polychondritis Systemic Vasculitis Alopecia Universalis Buerger's Disease

Cardiovascular

---

Acute Heart Damage
Chronic Coronary Artery Disease

Ocular

---

Corneal regeneration

Immunodeficiencies

---

Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome
X-linked Lymphoproliferative Syndrome
X-linked Hyper immunoglobulin M Syndrome

Neural Degenerative Diseases and Injuries

---

Parkinson's Disease
Spinal Cord Injury
Stroke Damage

Anemias and Other Blood Conditions

---

Sickle Cell Anemia Sideroblastic Anemia Aplastic Anemia Red Cell Aplasia Amegakaryocytic Thrombocytopenia

Thalassemia Primary Amyloidosis Diamond Blackfan Anemia Fanconi's Anemia Chronic Epstein-Barr Infection

Wounds and Injuries

---

Limb Gangrene
Surface Wound Healing
Jawbone Replacement
Skull Bone Repair

Other Metabolic Disorders

---

Hurler's Syndrome
Osteogenesis Imperfecta
Krabbe Leukodystrophy
Osteopetrosis
Cerebral X-Linked Adrenoleukodystrophy

Liver Disease

---

Chronic Liver Failure
Liver Cirrhosis

Bladder Disease

---

End-Stage Bladder Disease

What Embryonic Stem Cells have been shown to be capable of:

Let them both be great at what they're great at.

Don't destroy the latter to get it to do the job of the former!

---

Just another lie from those who want to smear pro-lifers as being against science and finding cures.

You're pathetic. Just pathetic.

[ballplayer]

Why is a Fraud important to you? Awful expensive just to make you feel better because it does NOTHING else

[CutePuppy]

Welcome to the "Hotel California" ...

It starts with:

"Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place
(Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year
(Any time of year)
You can find it here"

... and ends with:

And in the master's chambers they gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast

Last thing I remember I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
"Relax," said the night man, "We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave."

Why does this song seem more like about the "Roach Motel" than the "Hotel" California?

[netmilsmom]

>>How much profit are you making and was that green or black tea? <<

Ooops sorry, I thought we were having an adult conversation.
Bye!

[netmilsmom]

>>When you have been duck taped to a surgical table, cried like a baby and begged the doctor to end your life to stop the pain. Then I’ll listen to what you have to say.<<

First you say you don’t want to compare pain then you go into what pain you’re in.

You have no clue what any other person on this board lives through.

[CutePuppy]

It so happens, and worth a reminder, that George W. Bush was the first President to propose funding and allocate taxpayer money for non-embryonic stem-cell research.

It also so happens that the article is about a government of severely strapped for cash state, which has deceived its citizens, under the guise of "humanity and compassion" and with knowingly false promises of false "cures" using prominent members of entertainment and "news" media (e.g., Michael J. Fox, Christopher Reeve), into voting for an expensive and so far financially misused and abused "research program" which has not done any research but only bestowed the benefits to their real constituents (rich limousine looters, parasites and moochers).

If there were any visible benefits to the ESC research, it could have easily been funded by private interests (like Bill Gates or pharmaceutical companies), with the goal of immense profits and/or philanthropy... yet the research of adult stem-cells has been abundantly funded by many companies and has resulted in many successful treatments, while ESC research has not been even close.

It's hardly surprising then, that many people would object to the government, under false pretenses, forcing them to pay for the almost guaranteed failure of wasteful efforts (from scientific point of view) on the kind of research to which many people also object on moral or religious grounds.

This is not about a search for the "cures" - this is a cynical quest for "public" money, playing on people's natural feelings of compassion and little, if any, understanding of what they are voting for and who shall give and who shall receive. All these taxpayer-funded ESC "programs" are nothing but a political ploy to transfer money from taxpayers to the politically connected Special Interest Groups, using false "science" and scare tactics, similar to other hoaxes like "[anthropogenic] climate change" (where media also conveniently omits "man-made" just like they "forget" to add "embryonic") and omitting who will be the payers and who the intended recipients are...

[84rules]

Those are treatments using ADULT stem cells. Completely different from using embryonic stem cells.

[dangus]

I hear you. But please know that the fetal stem-cell research proponents are deliberately confusing the issue, so people believe that fetal stem-cell research is necessary and where all the promise lies. The truth is that adult stem-cell research is where nearly all the breakthroughs have been, and the opponents of fetal stem-cell research have been working tirelessly to distinguish that adult stem-cell research is very promising, whereas fetal stem-cell research is unnecessary and barbaric.

[Gondring]

Ooops sorry, I thought we were having an adult conversation.
Bye!

That's okay. You often mistake your misleading babbling for adult conversation. I used to think you were being dishonest and bringing up straw men and red herrings, but now I see that you aren't intentionally being so far off-base.

You see, your comment about babies dying has as much to do with this as the price of tea in China.

But you wouldn't be dishonest, trying to mislead fellow FReepers just to push your anti-Judeo-Christian-compassion agenda, would you? One might think you were trying to fool pro-Life FReepers into siding with you anti-Life ghouls who would rather living people die than to use the research from cells derived from cells derived from cells derived from cells derived from cells derived from cells derived from cells derived from . . . cells derived from an embryo that was destroyed decades ago.

Destroying embryos for stem-cell research would be one thing.
But that thing is nothing to do with what is happening.

[Gondring]

You have no clue what any other person on this board lives through.

Good argument not to restrict things.

As you point out, you are ignorant of all the factors involved.

[Gondring]

These days, it's the opponents who are as dishonest as the proponents, though. That's what burns me up.

I'm an old dude...back in my day, conservatism meant honesty, and it meant that we held positions because we believed they were right and we believed we could defend them.

But now, people are calling themselves conservatives yet trying to hard to distort the discussion and debate, rather than address the facts honestly.

The truth is that adult stem-cell research is where nearly all the breakthroughs have been

Of course, that's where nearly of the advanced research has been. And the advanced in adult-cell research relied upon things learned from embryonic-cell research--techniques because that wouldn't have been available without embryonic research.

[...] and the opponents of fetal stem-cell research have been working tirelessly to distinguish that adult stem-cell research is very promising

If they focused on that, I'd have no problem with them.

whereas fetal stem-cell research is unnecessary and barbaric.

See...right there, you are repeating two distortions of the opponents. I don't know of a single place in the entire world that is working with fetal stem-cells rather than either adult or embryonic/blastocystic-derived lines. That is, they are not experimenting on cells from fetuses--but rather from embryos that are so early they wouldn't have even been implanted in the uterus even if they had been fertilized in a woman's body.

In fact, "embryo" gives many people the wrong impression. The actual "embryo" is a blastocyst--only a few days "old" (after fertilization). Here it is, in color (the green part is the part that would grow into a fetus), and black and white...

Also, little of the research is being done on actual cells from embryos, especially in the US. The first clinical study approved for human trials in the US, for example, is using a line from long, long ago.

There is likely much greater promise with induced pluripotent methods, but two things are important to note--1) without embryonic research, we wouldn't have gotten there, 2) because of the restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research, we're not nearly as far along and don't know yet what might be capable, and 3) no embryos need to be killed for this research--it can continue by using existing lines and generating lines from embryos being destroyed every day anyway.

[dcwusmc]

I have dealt with back pain at least as severe since 1973, but I will continue to deal with it rather than see babies murdered and their body parts used for such research. Yet that is what YOU seem to advocate. Abortion is MURDER, no matter the excuse for it.

I notice that YOU never mentioned that the procedure you linked to involves your own ADULT stem cells, the only type, aside from umbilical cord blood cells, that have produced actual results. How dishonest is THAT???

[Ditto]

What about a stem cell that is taken from an embryo without killing or harming it?

I don't think that is possible. To harvest the stem cells, the host cell must be destroyed.

[Gondring]

Embryonic stem-cell research can continue now without killing a single embryo.